Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State? | Page 12 | The Boneyard

Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State?

Status
Not open for further replies.
freescooter said:
and it is disgraceful and disgusting. Seems everyone, from Paterno to the University President knew what Sandusky was up to and went out of their way to hide the facts in order to protectthe program. My opinion is that Penn State should take the dramatic step and shut the program down for a year and rebuild from the ground up. Say to the world that we are not going to tolerate this any more. Our football program is NOT more important than anything else. Of course they won't do that. But they should. andif they don't the NCAA should do it for them.
Expand ...

What kills me is UCONN Basketball gets banned for a friggin year from tourney play over a stupd friggin APR graduation rate issue... smh... Totally disappointed in the powers that be that supposedly run NCAA athletics... Totally reeediculous...
 
ktuck911 said:
What kills me is UCONN Basketball gets banned for a friggin year from tourney play over a stupd friggin APR graduation rate issue... smh... Totally disappointed in the powers that be that supposedly run NCAA athletics... Totally reeediculous...
Expand ...

CL82 made an excellent post in another thread, I'm going to respond to your comment with his.

CL82 said:
I think this goes to the lack of institutional control/death penalty issue that has been debated to death here. The school did a risk/benefit analysis and decided that the benefit of maintaining the illusion of institutional integrity outweighed the risk of sanctions if caught. It is hard to change the risk portion of this analysis as some people will hope that they won't be caught. So if you want to change the analysis, you have to change the severity of sanctions. Make sure that PSU and every institution in the country will opt for the embarassment of disclosure of the activity rather than risk severe sanction.

The failure to severely sanction the program confirms that their analysis of the risk was accurate. Why change "policies/proceedures" if the cost of taking no action is no different than the cost of self reporting? This is a watershed moment. PSU needs to become an example of what happens to an institution where the reputation of the institution becomes more important than welfare of innocents. I, for one, don't feel the least bit sorry for them.
Expand ...
 
Considering that a worldwide institution was involved in the same thing to an exponential degree, never really came clean and just waited out the storm coming back more arrogent and full of it than ever; I predict that Penn State will follow the same model. Payout a few bucks and pretend it never happened. In a few years, Penn State also will take massive umbridge when ever it is brought up. It will work, too.
 
I think it's a possibility that the NCAA will need to change their own operations bylaws to enforce any signfiicant penalty on the Penn State athletic department, and if that's the case, that's exactly what the NCAA needs to do.
 
Waquoit said:
Considering that a worldwide institution was involved in the same thing to an exponential degree, never really came clean and just waited out the storm coming back more arrogent and full of it than ever; I predict that Penn State will follow the same model. Payout a few bucks and pretend it never happened. In a few years, Penn State also will take massive umbridge when ever it is brought up. It will work, too.
Expand ...

I really wish I could argue with this.

The problem with the Vatican - is what authority exists that could really come down on them? The U.N.?

There are authorities that can come down on PSU for this.
 
.-.
This is no different than the Catholic Church scandal. Exactly the same line of thinking, that protecting the "institution" is more important than protecting 1 or a rleative few, children. It is a mindset, and one that is broken only with great difficulty...
 
freescooter said:
This is no different than the Catholic Church scandal. Exactly the same line of thinking, that protecting the "institution" is more important than protecting 1 or a rleative few, children. It is a mindset, and one that is broken only with great difficulty...
Expand ...

Waquoit brought this up too. The Vatican, is a culture that had existed for a lot longer than six decades, with the exact same kind of principlies that Joe Paterno built PSU. Absolute power and authority.
 
Checking out for awhile folks. This subject matter is just too depressing and sad. Looking forward to some football, It's coming soon.
 
Carl, I thi
Carl Spackler said:
Rule changes, procedures are a given, it's not enough. It wasn't enough for penn state to acknowledge the existence of any of the children Sandusky was involved with until AFTER he was arrested. RUle changes are not enough.

Paragraphs 1-3, page 4.

http://www.courant.com/sports/mc-penn-state-freeh-report-freehstatement,0,5580355.htmlstory
Expand ...

Carl, I think it's naive to think that anything that happens to football is going to change that risk assessment. There's no correlation between them. Universities are always liable for lawsuits for a variety of reasons. Regulations are crucial in this regard, unless you somehow believe that things will change so drastically that all allegations of abuse are reported.

Let me make this clear: when the new rules changes were made at my school, the changes were in regard to child abuse. But if you think there will be new regulations dealing with all forms of criminality and of potential threats/assault being dealt with through the police, I would highly doubt it. I've been through this before a number of times making reports about students, and on one occasion a faculty member. We once had a student that bragged of putting Hutus to death (he was a Tutsi) and threatened fellow students with the same. In other words, there is indeed always a risk assessment that gets made by someone either in administration or human resources. Those that work at corporations know well of what I'm talking about. Only in the case of child abuse have the regulations changed.

I can care less what happens to the football program. My point is, the same risk assessments will be made in the future in cases of abuse or potential abuse. In this particular case, the PSU coach and administrators were so far off the ball that their actions beg belief. But nonetheless, we're not moving into a world where employees (like Sandusky) have no rights.
 
Carl Spackler said:
I suppose you might try to tell me that it was Curley that convinced Paterno not to go to the authorities, and not the other way around?

Before you try to do that, read the actual 267 page report.
Expand ...

Only the deranged voice in your head told you that.

I read the relevant parts of the report and made my position known already.

Why you choose to twist it is your problem, not mine.
 
.-.
businesslawyer said:
A little overbroad, don't you think? There are a handful of people who actually "knew" something because they were close enough to the facts and the evidence. There were probably hundreds of people who had "heard something" that they found difficult to believe and didn't have enough evidence on to do something about. You do not really want everyone who hears a fifth hand rumor about something to call the police. The number of wild goose chases you would cause would far outweigh the crimes you would prevent.

Unless, of course, you judge their actions in hindsight. But Nelson would never do that.
Expand ...

Next time just show some class and say I was right.
 
$20MM, less what they can recover from the assets of Paterno, Sandusky, the other two guys, and any potential insurance settlement. There is a very good chance that Penn State ends up net out of pocket of less than $10MM for allowing a pedophile to run rampant on their campus over over a decade.

The victims of the Catholic Church abuse have ended up with about $1MM per victim, depending on the assets of the diocese in question. If a victim was unlucky enough to get molested at a small diocese that did not have significant assets, then the settlements were less than $100k per victim. If a victim got molested at a wealthier diocese, such as San Diego, the payouts were closer to $1.1MM per victim.

The Catholic church scandal is a direct comparable to what the Sandusky plaintiffs can expect. It is a very similar situation in which a larger organization protected the criminal behavior of an individual over an extended period of time. Luckily for the Sandusky victims, it will be pretty easy to implicate Penn State in the abuse, which means access to much deeper pockets. Unluckily for them, the Catholic church settlements set a guideline for payouts. With fewer victims and a deeper pocketed defendant, the Sandusky victims could have hoped for a bigger payday if they had gone first.

It is very unlikely the Penn State victims will see much more than $1.1MM per victim. While there are technically 20 victims, I expect a few to be thrown out because they will be unable to prove they were actually molested. Assume 2 or 3 are tossed out, multiply by $1.1, and round up to $20 million to provide margin of error.

Penn State has grossed several times that number in the last 15 years since it became abundantly clear that Sandusky was a serial child rapist. It really is up to the NCAA to punish Penn State, because otherwise, from a business perspective, Penn State clearly made the right decision in burying the Sandusky situation as long as it did.
 
personally i'd be more satisfied with some of these people serving jail time than to see PSU pay out $10m. i'm not saying the victims don't deserve some money, but if PSU pays cash out of their endowment and the school officials that enabled this escape any personal punishment it will be very sad indeed. these types of cover ups will never cease until individuals are held accountable
 
.-.
That sounds about right, the CC is a good comparison. As for cover ups like this, they will always happen so long ad self-preservation is a dominant part of the human psyche.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Next time just show some class and say I was right.
Expand ...

About what? That a lot of people had heard about this? I agree with that. I've agreed with that since the week the story broke. Not sure how that relates to my point, but if that makes you feel better great.
 
http://www.nikeinc.com/news/statements-from-nike-inc-ceo-and-chairman

I have been deeply saddened by the news coming out of this investigation at Penn State. It is a terrible tragedy that children were unprotected from such abhorrent crimes. With the findings released today, I have decided to change the name of our child care center at our World Headquarters. My thoughts are with the victims and the Penn State community.

– Mark Parker, President & CEO, NIKE, Inc.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
None of this is the least bit surprising. This was apparent to me the second day the scandal broke when I saw a synopsis of an interview of Greg Schiano on WFAN and Schiano refused to answer any questions about the Penn State scandal. That meant Schiano knew, which meant everyone involved in the program knew, which meant many AD's and President's around the country knew.

I don't think they should stop at Penn State. I think every AD in the country should be deposed and answer whether they knew or had heard rumors about what was happening at Penn State. Everyone had to know. How does the top defensive coordinator in the country not even get a sniff at a head coaching job unless EVERYONE knew?
Expand ...

Schiano probably had a number of reasons. Maybe the Penn State job was his "dream job." Given the toxicity, maybe his thought process went to:

"I'm not touching this with a ten foot pole."

Also, if "everyone knew," the whole sordid mess would have been brought to light. There are/were too many competing coaches and AD's that have been punched in the stomach by Saint Joe and his program's pristine image. Recruits would have been 'warned" and some coach or AD would have been whispering to the media about the Pulitzer to be found at Penn State.

Finally, why would Sandusky leave? The sick f#$k was in his own demented version of pedophile heaven.
 
mattp said:
personally i'd be more satisfied with some of these people serving jail time than to see PSU pay out $10m. i'm not saying the victims don't deserve some money, but if PSU pays cash out of their endowment and the school officials that enabled this escape any personal punishment it will be very sad indeed. these types of cover ups will never cease until individuals are held accountable
Expand ...

It's not mutually exclusive. Jail time, financial sanction, likely in the form of civil damages, and a NCAA sanction should all be forthcoming.
 
.-.
upstater said:
Carl, I thi


Carl, I think it's naive to think that anything that happens to football is going to change that risk assessment. There's no correlation between them. Universities are always liable for lawsuits for a variety of reasons. Regulations are crucial in this regard, unless you somehow believe that things will change so drastically that all allegations of abuse are reported.

Let me make this clear: when the new rules changes were made at my school, the changes were in regard to child abuse. But if you think there will be new regulations dealing with all forms of criminality and of potential threats/assault being dealt with through the police, I would highly doubt it. I've been through this before a number of times making reports about students, and on one occasion a faculty member. We once had a student that bragged of putting Hutus to death (he was a Tutsi) and threatened fellow students with the same. In other words, there is indeed always a risk assessment that gets made by someone either in administration or human resources. Those that work at corporations know well of what I'm talking about. Only in the case of child abuse have the regulations changed.

I can care less what happens to the football program. My point is, the same risk assessments will be made in the future in cases of abuse or potential abuse. In this particular case, the PSU coach and administrators were so far off the ball that their actions beg belief. But nonetheless, we're not moving into a world where employees (like Sandusky) have no rights.
Expand ...


I'm in no mood to engage in a conversation like this right now. You know what I want upstater? I want to hear, see, read, one....just ONE....penn state fan, loyalist, say clearly that their institution is gravely flawed, needs to be severely sanctioned,absolutely, without doubt, an example - so that nothing like this can ever happen again - not just at penn state, but anywhere.

All I get,and I've talked to a lot today.....is well.....just like you.
 
Carl Spackler said:
I'm in no mood to engage in a conversation like this right now. You know what I want upstater? I want to hear, see, read, one....just ONE....penn state fan, loyalist, say clearly that their institution is gravely flawed, needs to be severely sanctioned,absolutely, without doubt, an example - so that nothing like this can ever happen again - not just at penn state, but anywhere.

All I get,and I've talked to a lot today.....is well.....just like you.
Expand ...

You are in the mood. That's why you're posting. And saying crazy stuff.
 
SubbaBub said:
That sounds about right, the CC is a good comparison. As for cover ups like this, they will always happen so long ad self-preservation is a dominant part of the human psyche.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
Expand ...

the problem is that self preservation has been served by covering this stuff up. if Curley knew he'd go to prison for covering it up he might act differently. the same with the Catholics. until some of the authorities that participated in the cover up are held accountable nothing will change. and by accountable i don't mean taking money from an organization's pocket, but putting people in jail. if PSU has to pay out 100 million dollars, it doesn't hurt Curley one bit. throw him in prison and it'd be a different story.
 
In many respects, upstater & Carl, the reason that I think it would be the right move for Penn State to voluntarily suspend its football program for a year is that it would say, in no uncertain terms, that the university community recognizes what happened was wrong, that it recognizes what happened was the result of a culture that was inconsistent with what a university should be, and that it is taking dramatic steps to end that culture once and for all so that never again will an athletic program be more important than the University, and everyone will get the message that the University will never again put the protection of its football team ahead of the well being and saftey of children.
 
mattp said:
the problem is that self preservation has been served by covering this stuff up. if Curley knew he'd go to prison for covering it up he might act differently. the same with the Catholics. until some of the authorities that participated in the cover up are held accountable nothing will change. and by accountable i don't mean taking money from an organization's pocket, but putting people in jail. if PSU has to pay out 100 million dollars, it doesn't hurt Curley one bit. throw him in prison and it'd be a different story.
Expand ...

But even then, only mandatory reporters are charged with "must report." I believe Schultz is the only guy liable. And Schultz was on his way out at the time--with retirement papers already finalized. He could have reported it. No one and nothing could have stopped him. He had his money. Spanier also was a non-mandatory reporter. So, in terms of criminality, these administrators are all on the dock for perjury, not non-reporting. Which means, in the future, you can still get away with keeping this hidden as long as you fess up and destroy your reputation after the fact. You don't go to jail unless you're Schultz.
 
No, you made a thoughtful response, that I didn't want to leave unanswered, because it clearly involved coherent and meaningful things. The problem is that it's far too late, and all of what you said, should, and will happen anyway. I'd rather see a simple statement from you. A statement that acknowledges, holy , this is disgusting, and yes, it was all done to protect the image of the university and it's athletic department, and for that, the athletic department should be punished by whatever means is deemed adequate, and that the most severe punishment possible, the compelte shut down of the football program for a period of time, would still pale in comparison to what happened by letting those children be molested in the facilities for the past 10 years.

Can you write somethign like that upstater? Can you say it and mean it? I am 100% sure that I could say it about UConn.

That's all I want to know. Can 1 single penn state loyalist stand up and say it? Mike McQueary, still appears to be the only one. I read the Paterno family response to this report today and it made me want to take up arms.

THis is very emotional for me.
 
.-.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,322
Messages
4,563,757
Members
10,458
Latest member
Liam Rainst


Top Bottom