Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State? | Page 13 | The Boneyard

Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State?

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Carl Spackler said:
My thoughts are with the victims and the Penn State community.

– Mark Parker, President & CEO, NIKE, Inc.
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The same Penn State community that had huge rallies to support Paterno? How are they victims?
 
matt,
I actually think there is much truth to what you said. I read a piece about the monsignor from Philadelphia who was convicted of child endangerment for covering up pedophile priests. Apparently his conviction and likely jail term has caused many Catholic Diocese to begin to greatly strengthen their disclosure/reporting rules in a way all the law suits never did. Suddenly when the prospect of a bishop or his aide going to prison becomes real, they take these things seriously. Otherwise its only money.
 
freescooter said:
In many respects, upstater & Carl, the reason that I think it would be the right move for Penn State to voluntarily suspend its football program for a year is that it would say, in no uncertain terms, that the university community recognizes what happened was wrong, that it recognizes what happened was the result of a culture that was inconsistent with what a university should be, and that it is taking dramatic steps to end that culture once and for all so that never again will an athletic program be more important than the University, and everyone will get the message that the University will never again put the protection of its football team ahead of the well being and saftey of children.
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They could do that. Frankly, I wouldn't care. I think punishment is warranted and it'd be better if PSU did it, but even harsher punishment wouldn't matter to me. This is football, we're talking about. Beyond that, I don't think it's about the football program and I don't think it would really matter to the vast majority of the university community if football were punished. It might matter to a portion of the football boosters and season tix holders, but the majority of alumni would be on board.
 
Carl Spackler said:
No, you made a thoughtful response, that I didn't want to leave unanswered, because it clearly involved coherent and meaningful things. The problem is that it's far too late, and all of what you said, should, and will happen anyway. I'd rather see a simple statement from you. A statement that acknowledges, holy , this is disgusting, and yes, it was all done to protect the image of the university and it's athletic department, and for that, the athletic department should be punished by whatever means is deemed adequate, and that the most severe punishment possible, the compelte shut down of the football program for a period of time, would still pale in comparison to what happened by letting those children be molested in the facilities for the past 10 years.

Can you write somethign like that upstater? Can you say it and mean it? I am 100% sure that I could say it about UConn.

That's all I want to know. Can 1 single penn state loyalist stand up and say it? Mike McQueary, still appears to be the only one. I read the Paterno family response to this report today and it made me want to take up arms.

THis is very emotional for me.
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I don't agree with your point of view. Especially not on McQueary.
 
Read this -USA Today article- skeptical of any change happening at PSU. There won't be a culture change unless the cost of taking no action is dramatically increased.
 
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upstater said:
They could do that. Frankly, I wouldn't care. I think punishment is warranted and it'd be better if PSU did it, but even harsher punishment wouldn't matter to me. This is football, we're talking about. Beyond that, I don't think it's about the football program and I don't think it would really matter to the vast majority of the university community if football were punished. It might matter to a portion of the football boosters and season tix holders, but the majority of alumni would be on board.
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Really? this is what you think about what's going with penn state? right now in Scranton? THis is the complete opposite of what's happening in reality right now with Penn State, as will soon be able to be read by everyone when the BOT releases their statements later today.

and I'm the one that's deranged. They are ALL in protection of the image mode at Penn State. Circle the wagons - buildingn walls to protect the legacy and the culture - rather than planting as much as explosive as possible to blow the whole thing up to the foundations so that the entire world can see that the culture has changed.
 
CL82 said:
Read this -USA Today article- skeptical of any change happening at PSU. There won't be a culture change unless the cost of taking no action is dramatically increased.
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If the NCAA does nothing, it will be effectively rewarding Penn State for covering up a serial child rapist.
 
Carl Spackler said:
And that upstater, is why penn state, most definitely deserves the complete shut down of the football program.
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Because I don't agree with you? You've gone over into NelsonMuntz territory.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Really? this is what you think about what's going with penn state? right now in Scranton? THis is the complete opposite of what's happening in reality right now with Penn State, as will soon be able to be read by everyone when the BOT releases their statements later today.

and I'm the one that's deranged. They are ALL in protection of the image mode at Penn State. Circle the wagons - buildingn walls to protect the legacy and the culture - rather than planting as much as explosive as possible to blow the whole thing up to the foundations so that the entire world can see that the culture has changed.
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Uh, the BOT HIRED Freeh. Lordy, you didn't realize that?
 
NO upstater, because I've concluded over the years, that you, are a steadfast supporter of Penn State university. A fan. Also a fan of UConn, too, as you hang around here, but a PSU supporter nonetheless.

And your words, to be read by all the thousands of eyes that see this website, can be extrapolated to be representative of the fan base of the Penn State in general.

Can you do it? Can you write it? It's simple....this is what it looks like.

Penn State just might deserve the death penalty to the football program.

You weren't able to admit it weeks ago, when the evidence wasn't public, when it was heresay. Can you do it now?
 
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Carl Spackler said:
I know. That fact might be the only thing they have left to hold on to their positions as this continues to shake out.
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Their positions are unpaid and largely ceremonial. Other than doing to Governor's bidding politically, vis-a-vis PSU as an institution, they are largely irrelevant. But the fact that you're saying "you know" and yet you posted what you did in your above response must mean that you have a lot of doubts about the veracity of Freeh report. It's an attempt to sweep it all under the rug? That's what you're saying? How is the Freeh report an attempt to hide the facts?
 
Carl Spackler said:
NO upstater, because I've concluded over the years, that you, are a steadfast supporter of Penn State university. A fan. Also a fan of UConn, too, as you hang around here, but a PSU supporter nonetheless.

And your words, to be read by all the thousands of eyes that see this website, can be extrapolated to be representative of the fan base of the Penn State in general.

Can you do it? Can you write it? It's simple....this is what it looks like.

Penn State just might deserve the death penalty to the football program.

You weren't able to admit it weeks ago, when the evidence wasn't public, when it was heresay. Can you do it now?
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I disagree with you. Why would you want me to write something about which I totally disagree with you? It's bizarre.
 
upstater said:
I disagree with you. Why would you want me to write something about which I totally disagree with you? It's bizarre.
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I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night.

I rest my case. Death penalty to penn state football program. 1 year, no football, forfeit all athletic department revenue - 1 year.

It's the only way to change the culture.
 
upstater said:
Their positions are unpaid and largely ceremonial. Other than doing to Governor's bidding politically, vis-a-vis PSU as an institution, they are largely irrelevant. But the fact that you're saying "you know" and yet you posted what you did in your above response must mean that you have a lot of doubts about the veracity of Freeh report. It's an attempt to sweep it all under the rug? That's what you're saying? How is the Freeh report an attempt to hide the facts?
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In all due respect, seriously, WTF is this? You know what never mind.


The fact that you, as not only a supporter of PSU, but also a higher education professional of some sort - self professed - can't acknowledge publicly that PSU should seriously face the reality of shutting down the football program for a while, is my evidence that the culture of penn state needs to be blown up from sources EXTERNALLY

1 year no football, forfeit all athletic department revenue for 1 year.

Case closed.
 
Carl Spackler said:
I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night.

I rest my case. Death penalty to penn state football program. 1 year, no football, forfeit all athletic department revenue - 1 year.

It's the only way to change the culture.
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You rest your case about what? You've never made any case whatsoever. You just mindlessly repeat whatever nelsonmuntz has to say.
 
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Carl Spackler said:
In all due respect, seriously, WTF is this? You know what never mind.


The fact that you, as not only a supporter of PSU, but also a higher education professional of some sort - self professed - can't acknowledge publicly that PSU should seriously face the reality of shutting down the football program for a while, is my evidence that the culture of penn state needs to be blown up from sources EXTERNALLY

1 year no football, forfeit all athletic department revenue for 1 year.

Case closed.
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Laughable!!!!!

You change with every single post.

First the death penalty. Now one year of football. Holy, make up your mind!!!

And what could you possibly have against my post about the Board of Trustees. My God, who even knows WTF you are talking about?
 
THere's almost 40 pages of this discussion that very clearly outlines what I"m talking about. What you're doing, with your responses, and comments, is simply reinforcing the fact that Penn State needs external, and SWIFT, forceful punishment.

All I'm asking upstater, is for you, to admit in words, that you think that penn state just might....you know what...can you even admit what free scooter (i think - sorry dude if I'm wrong) but wrote that a self-imposed complete shut down of the football program would at least send the public signal that the culture is changing?

YOu came close - here:

They could do that. Frankly, I wouldn't care. I think punishment is warranted and it'd be better if PSU did it, but even harsher punishment wouldn't matter to me. This is football, we're talking about. Beyond that, I don't think it's about the football program and I don't think it would really matter to the vast majority of the university community if football were punished. It might matter to a portion of the football boosters and season tix holders, but the majority of alumni would be on board.


BUt even here, still, you are following the Paterno legacy- quote" I don't think it's about the football program". this is most defintely about the football program at Penn State, and only Penn State people continue to deny it.
 
The NCAA should shutter that football program and probably the rest of the athletic program. They have not demonstrated that they are responsible as an institution. Schools that use their authority to protect a monster is just another monster.

If they play football this year then when they play away games, I hope the fans of the home team wear black to remind this institution and not let them off the hook.
 
Carl Spackler said:
THere's almost 40 pages of this discussion that very clearly outlines what I"m talking about. What you're doing, with your responses, and comments, is simply reinforcing the fact that Penn State needs external, and SWIFT, forceful punishment.

All I'm asking upstater, is for you, to admit in words, that you think that penn state just might....you know what...can you even admit what free scooter (i think - sorry dude if I'm wrong) but wrote that a self-imposed complete shut down of the football program would at least send the public signal that the culture is changing?

YOu came close - here:

They could do that. Frankly, I wouldn't care. I think punishment is warranted and it'd be better if PSU did it, but even harsher punishment wouldn't matter to me. This is football, we're talking about. Beyond that, I don't think it's about the football program and I don't think it would really matter to the vast majority of the university community if football were punished. It might matter to a portion of the football boosters and season tix holders, but the majority of alumni would be on board.


BUt even here, still, you are following the Paterno legacy- quote" I don't think it's about the football program". this is most defintely about the football program at Penn State, and only Penn State people continue to deny it.
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I'm sorry, I have to laugh.....because I distinctly remember you, in late 2011, claim emphatically that this was NOT a football story.
 
We all know upstater will defend Penn State to the last man. We also know that Carl is one crazed dude. The NCAA "death penalty" though refers to losing the program for a year. At least the only time it was used in major college football, at SMU, it was a year. The 2nd year they were only allowed to play league games, I think, though not sure, and only on the road. They were also hit with loss of 55 scholarships over 4 years and limited to 5 coaches, no off campus recuiting and not allowed ot pay for recruits to visit the campus(ie "officila visits"). SMU decided it couldn't put a real team out under those circumstances, so it voluntarily suspended its team for the 2nd season. to me the scholarships, and all the rest of it is all the sort of extra stuff the NCAA could consider, but Penn State would send a powerful message that it intends to take back control of the football program by suspending it for a season. the more you read about this, the more clear it is that football at Penn State was not answerable to anyone, indeed they were answerable to the football program. The football program didn't want to participate in "mandatory" abuse training, they didn't. they didn't want an outside reviewer, it was cancelled...
 
I haven't read the report and certainly not the pages of hodge podge in here, but did the report reveal that PSU broke any specific NCAA rules?
 
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Jimmy Serrano said:
I'm sorry, I have to laugh.....because I distinctly remember you, in late 2011, claim emphatically that this was NOT a football story.
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That was before I had any clue how ugly this really was. I hoped it wasn't a football thing. That Penn State football, that Joe Paterno, was not what has come to light since. This is about the kids. As I said then.

The kids that were ignored by Joe Paterno, in favor of the image of his football program.
 
do those of you that think PSU should get the death penalty, or have it's athletic dept shut down also think the Catholic Church should be closed down? maybe they could be prohibited from operating in the US, or have their tax exemption taken away. if you agree with PSU getting the d-p, but not the catholic church, what's your reasoning?
 
upstater said:
Laughable!!!!!

You change with every single post.

First the death penalty. Now one year of football. Holy, make up your mind!!!

And what could you possibly have against my post about the Board of Trustees. My God, who even knows WTF you are talking about?
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You are right. Penn State has been punished enough already.
 
freescooter said:
We all know upstater will defend Penn State to the last man. We also know that Carl is one crazed dude. The NCAA "death penalty" though refers to losing the program for a year. At least the only time it was used in major college football, at SMU, it was a year. The 2nd year they were only allowed to play league games, I think, though not sure, and only on the road. They were also hit with loss of 55 scholarships over 4 years and limited to 5 coaches, no off campus recuiting and not allowed ot pay for recruits to visit the campus(ie "officila visits"). SMU decided it couldn't put a real team out under those circumstances, so it voluntarily suspended its team for the 2nd season. to me the scholarships, and all the rest of it is all the sort of extra stuff the NCAA could consider, but Penn State would send a powerful message that it intends to take back control of the football program by suspending it for a season. the more you read about this, the more clear it is that football at Penn State was not answerable to anyone, indeed they were answerable to the football program. The football program didn't want to participate in "mandatory" abuse training, they didn't. they didn't want an outside reviewer, it was cancelled...
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Here's somebody that's had the courage to actually read what's in the documents about this situation.
 
mattp said:
do those of you that think PSU should get the death penalty, or have it's athletic dept shut down also think the Catholic Church should be closed down? maybe they could be prohibited from operating in the US, or have their tax exemption taken away. if you agree with PSU getting the d-p, but not the catholic church, what's your reasoning?
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First of all, those of us advocating the death penalty are only asking that the football program get shut down for a few years. People like you that conflate the football program with the university are part of the reason Penn State finds itself in this position in the first place.

Second of all, the Catholic Church is a useful guideline for what we think will happen, but irrelevant in terms of what we think SHOULD happen. Penn State's problems are Penn State's problems, and I do not get why you, WingU and Upstater continue to try to defend Penn State through these tangential arguments.
 
Carl Spackler said:
THere's almost 40 pages of this discussion that very clearly outlines what I"m talking about. What you're doing, with your responses, and comments, is simply reinforcing the fact that Penn State needs external, and SWIFT, forceful punishment.

All I'm asking upstater, is for you, to admit in words, that you think that penn state just might....you know what...can you even admit what free scooter (i think - sorry dude if I'm wrong) but wrote that a self-imposed complete shut down of the football program would at least send the public signal that the culture is changing?

YOu came close - here:

They could do that. Frankly, I wouldn't care. I think punishment is warranted and it'd be better if PSU did it, but even harsher punishment wouldn't matter to me. This is football, we're talking about. Beyond that, I don't think it's about the football program and I don't think it would really matter to the vast majority of the university community if football were punished. It might matter to a portion of the football boosters and season tix holders, but the majority of alumni would be on board.


BUt even here, still, you are following the Paterno legacy- quote" I don't think it's about the football program". this is most defintely about the football program at Penn State, and only Penn State people continue to deny it.
Expand ...

I disagree with you. What more needs to be said? Frankly, I've stated my position on this thread and stuck to it.

You, meanwhile, are all over the place. From death penalty, to 1 year off. I can't figure out what you even stand for anymore.

Suffice it to say we disagree on death penalty and also the nature of the cover-up. I agree with the Freeh report, and have been stating so for quite awhile now.

I don't even know what else is in dispute.

Let me make this clear once and for all:

1. I agree punishment is warranted
2. Don't agree on death penalty
3. Agree on cover-up
4. Don't agree on motives, but I'm open to it and think it's arguable/up in the air.

Otherwise, I really have absolutely no idea what you're going on about.
 
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