Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State?

[noeynox]

Eh, I have not read the report, but from the beggining you could reasonably conclude that Paterno, Spanier and the two others wanted to sweep it under the rug. Only Penn State apologists could argue differently. Paterno may have done a lot of good, but in my opinion this nullifies it all. He (and others) enabled a child rapist to keep offending. Ho hum, life will go on in Happy Valley, and they will pack 100k, plus at each home game.

 

[noeynox]

Thanks for posting the actual report.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

None of this is the least bit surprising. This was apparent to me the second day the scandal broke when I saw a synopsis of an interview of Greg Schiano on WFAN and Schiano refused to answer any questions about the Penn State scandal. That meant Schiano knew, which meant everyone involved in the program knew, which meant many AD's and President's around the country knew.

I don't think they should stop at Penn State. I think every AD in the country should be deposed and answer whether they knew or had heard rumors about what was happening at Penn State. Everyone had to know. How does the top defensive coordinator in the country not even get a sniff at a head coaching job unless EVERYONE knew?

 

[ZooCougar]

The Freeh Report is out. That is all.

 

[noeynox]

None of this is the least bit surprising. This was apparent to me the second day the scandal broke when I saw a synopsis of an interview of Greg Schiano on WFAN and Schiano refused to answer any questions about the Penn State scandal. That meant Schiano knew, which meant everyone involved in the program knew, which meant many AD's and President's around the country knew.

I don't think they should stop at Penn State. I think every AD in the country should be deposed and answer whether they knew or had heard rumors about what was happening at Penn State. Everyone had to know. How does the top defensive coordinator in the country not even get a sniff at a head coaching job unless EVERYONE knew?

He reportedly turned down three jobs to stay as DC at PSU, the last of which was the University Maryland. Looking back, he probably turned down those jobs because being a head coach, would cut in to Sandusky's time raping boys. Check the link from When Sandusky was stepping down. Looking back on it, still disgusting.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1017979/index.htm

 

[ZooCougar]

Not sure that I want to read it. What an incredible fall from grace. I was sort of hoping that there would be a rational explanation on Paterno but it doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[ZooCougar]

Eh, I have not read the report, but from the beggining you could reasonably conclude that Paterno, Spanier and the two others wanted to sweep it under the rug. Only Penn State apologists could argue differently. Paterno may have done a lot of good, but in my opinion this nullifies it all. He (and others) enabled a child rapist to keep offending. Ho hum, life will go on in Happy Valley, and they will pack 100k, plus at each home game.

I think they figured that outing Sandusky would have tainted their reputations. Oh the irony. I wonder how many more young people were damaged because Penn State couldn't do the right thing.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

None of this is the least bit surprising. This was apparent to me the second day the scandal broke when I saw a synopsis of an interview of Greg Schiano on WFAN and Schiano refused to answer any questions about the Penn State scandal. That meant Schiano knew, which meant everyone involved in the program knew, which meant many AD's and President's around the country knew.

I don't think they should stop at Penn State. I think every AD in the country should be deposed and answer whether they knew or had heard rumors about what was happening at Penn State. Everyone had to know. How does the top defensive coordinator in the country not even get a sniff at a head coaching job unless EVERYONE knew?

You continue to go off the deep end. Every AD in the country knew of this? And because Schiano refused to answer questions about it, he knew too?

I know it's obvious to everyone already, but you are completely and utterly out of your mind bat crazy.

 

[freescooter]

Penn State should face some serious sanctions for this. Lack of institutional control sounds about right.

Oh, there was plenty of institutional control. The institution made sure it controlled the police, the prosecutors and anyone else that might have damaged the reputation of its precious football program.

 

[CL82]

http://www.courant.com/sports/mc-penn-state-freeh-report-freehstatement,0,5580355.htmlstory

Could not agree more.

 

[noeynox]

I too wanted to believe in Paterno, but now I see what I thought he stood for, wasn't real. I guess there is a lesson there. You really shouldn't believe in people in you don't REALLY know.

 

[CL82]

Really? Why didn't anyone post this??

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I just got through portions of it. Not good. Worse than I thought actually. I wanted to give Paterno the benefit of the doubt. But even his just released letter reeks of self service and still gives the impression that the football program comes first.

How the f@#$ was Sandusky allowed to attend a game on 10/29/11?

 

[freescooter]

Questions:

1. What should the NCAA do? Conduct a full inquiry into Penn State's handling of this situation and take the strongest action it can.

2. What should Penn St do?Penn State should announce it is suspending its football program pending a full review of all its procedures to insure nothing like this EVER happens again. It should put in place an outside reviewer who can call out the football coach or any other official on any ethical/procedural issues. Sort of an ombudsman.

3. What should the Big 10 do? They have an enormous PR problem and an enormous TV contract.
Not to be too trite, but they should make plans to go without their football championship game for a year or so. They should suspend Penn State from representing them in the post season for 5 years or more after they return to the field.
4. How long will it take for Penn St to settle civil litigation? 10 years

5. Is this report just the beginning or the end? Middle

6. Would you want to see UConn do a home and home with them? If they did, would you attend or stay away if they were at The Rent?

I would favor a game AFTER Penn State re-instates its program.

 

[StoweD210]

Is this the 20,000th thread? Because I've been waiting for that.

 

[noeynox]

We were once SMU's first game back from the Death Penalty, it would be neat to repeat the same thing with PSU.

I don't really think, PSU will get a death penalty. I don't think the NCAA has any governance over anything that happened at PSU.

 

[Carl Spackler]

To Upstater: I believe thi sis the thread where we went into depth about my feelings about the culture of Penn State. The problem now, that we discussed in detail, is outlined very nicely in this single paragraph of the 267 page report out today, - that by the way - verifies absolutely everything I said about Penn State, Joe Paterno, and how the university culture was built up, and how it handled Jerry Sandusky. FIring the staff is not enough to change the culture. I'm not sure there is enough that can be done at this time to cahnge the culture, other than bringing that fist of justice to inflict damage.

quote:
"One of the most challenging tasks confronting the Penn State community is transforming the culture that permitted Sandusky's behavior, as illustrated throughout this [267 page] report, and which directly contributed to the failure of Penn State's most powerful leaders to adequately report and respond to actions of serial sexual predator. It is up the entire University community - students, faculty, staff, alumni, the Board and administration - to undertake a thorough and honest review of its culture. The current administration and Board of Trustees should task the University community, including students, faculty, staff, alumni and peers from similar institutions and outside experts in ethics and communications, to conduct such a review. The findings of such a review may well demand further changes [than those outlined in this report]."

That's basically an invite for the big 10, NCAA, and any other organization of higher learning to start taking a deep look at the culture of the Penn State university. I think that severe sanctions from the NCAA, including the death penalty, were warranted when we discussed this a few weeks ago, and I think the evidence for it, is now firmly right in front of our faces.

Here is the full report.

http://assets.espn.go.com/pdf/2012/0712/psupressrelease.pdf

 

[upstater]

To Upstater: I believe thi sis the thread where we went into depth about my feelings about the culture of Penn State. The problem now, that we discussed in detail, is outlined very nicely in this single paragraph of the 267 page report out today, - that by the way - verifies absolutely everything I said about Penn State, Joe Paterno, and how the university culture was built up, and how it handled Jerry Sandusky. FIring the staff is not enough to change the culture. I'm not sure there is enough that can be done at this time to cahnge the culture, other than bringing that fist of justice to inflict damage.

quote:
"One of the most challenging tasks confronting the Penn State community is transforming the culture that permitted Sandusky's behavior, as illustrated throughout this [267 page] report, and which directly contributed to the failure of Penn State's most powerful leaders to adequately report and respond to actions of serial sexual predator. It is up the entire University community - students, faculty, staff, alumni, the Board and administration - to undertake a thorough and honest review of its culture. The current administration and Board of Trustees should task the University community, including students, faculty, staff, alumni and peers from similar institutions and outside experts in ethics and communications, to conduct such a review. The findings of such a review may well demand further changes [than those outlined in this report]."

That's basically an invite for the big 10, NCAA, and any other organization of higher learning to start taking a deep look at the culture of the Penn State university. I think that severe sanctions from the NCAA, including the death penalty, were warranted when we discussed this a few weeks ago, and I think the evidence for it, is now firmly right in front of our faces.

Here is the full report.

http://assets.espn.go.com/pdf/2012/0712/psupressrelease.pdf

I agree it's the culture. It's the culture everywhere. I already mentioned that at my school, administrators cited PSU and Syracuse when they instituted a policy change. Whereas the prior policy stated that I had to report allegations or witnessing of abuse to my superior, the new regulations state that I must immediately report to campus police.

It's for precisely this reason, that as the allegations rise up the ladder, peeople on the lower rungs will not feel empowered to make such reports.

As for the rest, I don't know what you said earlier and whether this report verifies everything or anything. I read the key parts of the report, and found no new information. Seems the emails from before that were released are the extent of the information that allowed Freeh to reach his conclusions, which I agree with. They are the same conclusions I made a few weeks ago in this thread after reading the earlier emails.

Freeh did whitewash one aspect of the culture which should have been mentioned. To what degree is it an administrator's or board member's fiduciary duty to cover themselves from litigation. I mentioned to you a while back that Spanier proceeded similarly against a Physics professor who molested a kid as he did in the Sandusky case. It begs belief that he did this, but ultimately, he was an administrator in CYA mode, covering the universities liabilities rather than looking at for kids. The question is: why? And how can this be changed?

 

[freescooter]

Back a number of years ago, the president of the University of San Francisco was angry over far less significant violations in the Don's basketball program, I guess the only similarity was that All-American Quentin Dailey was accused of assaulting a female student. The Prei stepped in and closed it down for several years. At the time USF was a major program. Penn State should follow the San Francisco model and simply close the program for a year or two, rebuilding it from the ground up.

 

[Carl Spackler]

It was Paterno's call, in 2001, to handle Jerry Sandusky in house. And nobody stopped him. Paterno, that is. Complete disregard for the child. THe child basically didn't exist. Damning.

 

[businesslawyer]

None of this is the least bit surprising. This was apparent to me the second day the scandal broke when I saw a synopsis of an interview of Greg Schiano on WFAN and Schiano refused to answer any questions about the Penn State scandal. That meant Schiano knew, which meant everyone involved in the program knew, which meant many AD's and President's around the country knew.

I don't think they should stop at Penn State. I think every AD in the country should be deposed and answer whether they knew or had heard rumors about what was happening at Penn State. Everyone had to know. How does the top defensive coordinator in the country not even get a sniff at a head coaching job unless EVERYONE knew?

A little overbroad, don't you think? There are a handful of people who actually "knew" something because they were close enough to the facts and the evidence. There were probably hundreds of people who had "heard something" that they found difficult to believe and didn't have enough evidence on to do something about. You do not really want everyone who hears a fifth hand rumor about something to call the police. The number of wild goose chases you would cause would far outweigh the crimes you would prevent.

Unless, of course, you judge their actions in hindsight. But Nelson would never do that.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I agree it's the culture. It's the culture everywhere. I already mentioned that at my school, administrators cited PSU and Syracuse when they instituted a policy change. Whereas the prior policy stated that I had to report allegations or witnessing of abuse to my superior, the new regulations state that I must immediately report to campus police.

It's for precisely this reason, that as the allegations rise up the ladder, peeople on the lower rungs will not feel empowered to make such reports.

As for the rest, I don't know what you said earlier and whether this report verifies everything or anything. I read the key parts of the report, and found no new information. Seems the emails from before that were released are the extent of the information that allowed Freeh to reach his conclusions, which I don't dispute. They are the same conclusions I made a few weeks ago in this thread after reading the earlier emails.

Freeh did whitewash one aspect of the culture which should have been mentioned. To what degree is it an administrator's or board member's fiduciary duty to cover themselves from litigation. I mentioned to you a while back that Spanier proceeded similarly against a Physics professor who molested a kid as he did in the Sandusky case. It begs belief that he did this, but ultimately, he was an administrator in CYA mode, covering the universities liabilities rather than looking at for kids. The question is: why? And how can this be changed?

Paterno made the call not to go to the authorities in 2001 about Sandusky. I don't know any specifics about any other professor at PSU that was molesting children. It woubl be interesting if Spanier acted in cover up mode before, or after Sandusky in 2001.

Anwya - you ask how it can be changed? Easy. Shut down the entire football program for a year.

 

[upstater]

Paterno made the call not to go to the authorities in 2001 about Sandusky. I don't know any specifics about any other professor at PSU that was molesting children. It woubl be interesting if Spanier acted in cover up mode before, or after Sandusky in 2001.

Anwya - you ask how it can be changed? Easy. Shut down the entire football program for a year.

How would that change anything? You need policies, rules, regulations. I'm not against it, or even a harsher penalty. But I don't see that as having any impact.

The Freeh report talks of Paterno, Spanier, etc., making the calls. You know more than Freeh?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/s...joyed-success-and-secrecy.html?pagewanted=all

 

[CL82]

Freeh did whitewash one aspect of the culture which should have been mentioned. To what degree is it an administrator's or board member's fiduciary duty to cover themselves from litigation. I mentioned to you a while back that Spanier proceeded similarly against a Physics professor who molested a kid as he did in the Sandusky case. It begs belief that he did this, but ultimately, he was an administrator in CYA mode, covering the universities liabilities rather than looking at for kids. The question is: why? And how can this be changed?

I think this goes to the lack of institutional control/death penalty issue that has been debated to death here. The school did a risk/benefit analysis and decided that the benefit of maintaining the illusion of institutional integrity outweighed the risk of sanctions if caught. It is hard to change the risk portion of this analysis as some people will hope that they won't be caught. So if you want to change the analysis, you have to change the severity of sanctions. Make sure that PSU and every institution in the country will opt for the embarassment of disclosure of the activity rather than risk severe sanction.

The failure to severely sanction the program confirms that their analysis of the risk was accurate. Why change "policies/proceedures" if the cost of taking no action is no different than the cost of self reporting? This is a watershed moment. PSU needs to become an example of what happens to an institution where the reputation of the institution becomes more important than welfare of innocents. I, for one, don't feel the least bit sorry for them.

 

[sdhusky]

You do not really want everyone who hears a fifth hand rumor about something to call the police. The number of wild goose chases you would cause would far outweigh the crimes you would prevent.

Its hard for Nelson to realize that not everybody is always right. From his perspective, it would be a great idea because he is never wrong. See Stanley Robinson's lack of BE athleticism.