Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State? | Page 14 | The Boneyard

Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
22,817
Reaction Score
9,456
How would that change anything? You need policies, rules, regulations. I'm not against it, or even a harsher penalty. But I don't see that as having any impact.

The Freeh report talks of Paterno, Spanier, etc., making the calls. You know more than Freeh?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/s...joyed-success-and-secrecy.html?pagewanted=all

Rule changes, procedures are a given, it's not enough. It wasn't enough for penn state to acknowledge the existence of any of the children Sandusky was involved with until AFTER he was arrested. RUle changes are not enough.

Paragraphs 1-3, page 4.

http://www.courant.com/sports/mc-penn-state-freeh-report-freehstatement,0,5580355.htmlstory
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
22,817
Reaction Score
9,456
I suppose you might try to tell me that it was Curley that convinced Paterno not to go to the authorities, and not the other way around?

Before you try to do that, read the actual 267 page report.
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
22,817
Reaction Score
9,456
I think this goes to the lack of institutional control/death penalty issue that has been debated to death here. The school did a risk/benefit analysis and decided that the benefit of maintaining the illusion of institutional integrity outweighed the risk of sanctions if caught. It is hard to change the risk portion of this analysis as some people will hope that they are caught. So if you want to change the analysis, you have to change the severity of sanctions. Make sure that PSU and every institution in the country will opt for the embarassment of disclosure of the activity rather than risk severe sanction.

The failure to severely sanction the program confirms that their analysis of the risk was accurate. Why change "policies/proceedures if the cost of taking no action is no different than the cost of self reporting? This is a watershed moment. PSU needs to become an example of what happens to an institution where the reputation of the institution becomes more important than welfare of innocents. I, for one, don't feel the least bit sorry for them.

Can I like this 100,000 times?
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
4,320
Reaction Score
11,277
For me, personally, this goes so far beyond the issue of NCAA sanctions. I find the whole episode disappointing to the point of being depressing. How could such a venerable institution and icon behave so selfishly? How does that type of culture take such deep root?

It's a "faith in man issue".

Who gives a duck about football........children were knowingly harmed....for what!!!???
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
22,817
Reaction Score
9,456
For me, personally, this goes so far beyond the issue of NCAA sanctions. I find the whole episode disappointing to the point of being depressing. How could such a venerable institution and icon behave so selfishly? How does that type of culture take such deep root?

It's a "faith in man issue".

Who gives a duck about football........children were knowingly harmed....for what!!!???


The existence of a man like Jerry Sandusky (and the existence of a guy like Eric Greitens - that I"ve mentioned in this discussion - as my voice of reason for the necessity of instituting a death penalty to PSU football)...is proof positive to me of the very real existence of good and evil in this world.

Joe Paterno, built a culture with the values of absolute power and authority in central pennsylvania - the football program central to it. Like most cultures that are built that way, a lot of good is done. But the decision to try to contain and control an absolute evil like Sandusky, in house, and concealed, to protect the public image of that city state, is a tragedy that rivals anyting in fictional or real antiquity.

THe city state must fall.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
8,798
Reaction Score
15,870
and it is disgraceful and disgusting. Seems everyone, from Paterno to the University President knew what Sandusky was up to and went out of their way to hide the facts in order to protectthe program. My opinion is that Penn State should take the dramatic step and shut the program down for a year and rebuild from the ground up. Say to the world that we are not going to tolerate this any more. Our football program is NOT more important than anything else. Of course they won't do that. But they should. andif they don't the NCAA should do it for them.

What kills me is UCONN Basketball gets banned for a friggin year from tourney play over a stupd friggin APR graduation rate issue... smh... Totally disappointed in the powers that be that supposedly run NCAA athletics... Totally reeediculous...
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
22,817
Reaction Score
9,456
What kills me is UCONN Basketball gets banned for a friggin year from tourney play over a stupd friggin APR graduation rate issue... smh... Totally disappointed in the powers that be that supposedly run NCAA athletics... Totally reeediculous...

CL82 made an excellent post in another thread, I'm going to respond to your comment with his.

I think this goes to the lack of institutional control/death penalty issue that has been debated to death here. The school did a risk/benefit analysis and decided that the benefit of maintaining the illusion of institutional integrity outweighed the risk of sanctions if caught. It is hard to change the risk portion of this analysis as some people will hope that they won't be caught. So if you want to change the analysis, you have to change the severity of sanctions. Make sure that PSU and every institution in the country will opt for the embarassment of disclosure of the activity rather than risk severe sanction.

The failure to severely sanction the program confirms that their analysis of the risk was accurate. Why change "policies/proceedures" if the cost of taking no action is no different than the cost of self reporting? This is a watershed moment. PSU needs to become an example of what happens to an institution where the reputation of the institution becomes more important than welfare of innocents. I, for one, don't feel the least bit sorry for them.
 

Waquoit

Mr. Positive
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
33,555
Reaction Score
88,256
Considering that a worldwide institution was involved in the same thing to an exponential degree, never really came clean and just waited out the storm coming back more arrogent and full of it than ever; I predict that Penn State will follow the same model. Payout a few bucks and pretend it never happened. In a few years, Penn State also will take massive umbridge when ever it is brought up. It will work, too.
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
22,817
Reaction Score
9,456
I think it's a possibility that the NCAA will need to change their own operations bylaws to enforce any signfiicant penalty on the Penn State athletic department, and if that's the case, that's exactly what the NCAA needs to do.
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
22,817
Reaction Score
9,456
Considering that a worldwide institution was involved in the same thing to an exponential degree, never really came clean and just waited out the storm coming back more arrogent and full of it than ever; I predict that Penn State will follow the same model. Payout a few bucks and pretend it never happened. In a few years, Penn State also will take massive umbridge when ever it is brought up. It will work, too.

I really wish I could argue with this.

The problem with the Vatican - is what authority exists that could really come down on them? The U.N.?

There are authorities that can come down on PSU for this.
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
12,854
Reaction Score
21,363
This is no different than the Catholic Church scandal. Exactly the same line of thinking, that protecting the "institution" is more important than protecting 1 or a rleative few, children. It is a mindset, and one that is broken only with great difficulty...
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
22,817
Reaction Score
9,456
This is no different than the Catholic Church scandal. Exactly the same line of thinking, that protecting the "institution" is more important than protecting 1 or a rleative few, children. It is a mindset, and one that is broken only with great difficulty...

Waquoit brought this up too. The Vatican, is a culture that had existed for a lot longer than six decades, with the exact same kind of principlies that Joe Paterno built PSU. Absolute power and authority.
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
22,817
Reaction Score
9,456
Checking out for awhile folks. This subject matter is just too depressing and sad. Looking forward to some football, It's coming soon.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,688
Reaction Score
48,037
Carl, I thi
Rule changes, procedures are a given, it's not enough. It wasn't enough for penn state to acknowledge the existence of any of the children Sandusky was involved with until AFTER he was arrested. RUle changes are not enough.

Paragraphs 1-3, page 4.

http://www.courant.com/sports/mc-penn-state-freeh-report-freehstatement,0,5580355.htmlstory

Carl, I think it's naive to think that anything that happens to football is going to change that risk assessment. There's no correlation between them. Universities are always liable for lawsuits for a variety of reasons. Regulations are crucial in this regard, unless you somehow believe that things will change so drastically that all allegations of abuse are reported.

Let me make this clear: when the new rules changes were made at my school, the changes were in regard to child abuse. But if you think there will be new regulations dealing with all forms of criminality and of potential threats/assault being dealt with through the police, I would highly doubt it. I've been through this before a number of times making reports about students, and on one occasion a faculty member. We once had a student that bragged of putting Hutus to death (he was a Tutsi) and threatened fellow students with the same. In other words, there is indeed always a risk assessment that gets made by someone either in administration or human resources. Those that work at corporations know well of what I'm talking about. Only in the case of child abuse have the regulations changed.

I can care less what happens to the football program. My point is, the same risk assessments will be made in the future in cases of abuse or potential abuse. In this particular case, the PSU coach and administrators were so far off the ball that their actions beg belief. But nonetheless, we're not moving into a world where employees (like Sandusky) have no rights.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,688
Reaction Score
48,037
I suppose you might try to tell me that it was Curley that convinced Paterno not to go to the authorities, and not the other way around?

Before you try to do that, read the actual 267 page report.

Only the deranged voice in your head told you that.

I read the relevant parts of the report and made my position known already.

Why you choose to twist it is your problem, not mine.
 

nelsonmuntz

Point Center
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
44,572
Reaction Score
34,293
A little overbroad, don't you think? There are a handful of people who actually "knew" something because they were close enough to the facts and the evidence. There were probably hundreds of people who had "heard something" that they found difficult to believe and didn't have enough evidence on to do something about. You do not really want everyone who hears a fifth hand rumor about something to call the police. The number of wild goose chases you would cause would far outweigh the crimes you would prevent.

Unless, of course, you judge their actions in hindsight. But Nelson would never do that.

Next time just show some class and say I was right.
 

nelsonmuntz

Point Center
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
44,572
Reaction Score
34,293
$20MM, less what they can recover from the assets of Paterno, Sandusky, the other two guys, and any potential insurance settlement. There is a very good chance that Penn State ends up net out of pocket of less than $10MM for allowing a pedophile to run rampant on their campus over over a decade.

The victims of the Catholic Church abuse have ended up with about $1MM per victim, depending on the assets of the diocese in question. If a victim was unlucky enough to get molested at a small diocese that did not have significant assets, then the settlements were less than $100k per victim. If a victim got molested at a wealthier diocese, such as San Diego, the payouts were closer to $1.1MM per victim.

The Catholic church scandal is a direct comparable to what the Sandusky plaintiffs can expect. It is a very similar situation in which a larger organization protected the criminal behavior of an individual over an extended period of time. Luckily for the Sandusky victims, it will be pretty easy to implicate Penn State in the abuse, which means access to much deeper pockets. Unluckily for them, the Catholic church settlements set a guideline for payouts. With fewer victims and a deeper pocketed defendant, the Sandusky victims could have hoped for a bigger payday if they had gone first.

It is very unlikely the Penn State victims will see much more than $1.1MM per victim. While there are technically 20 victims, I expect a few to be thrown out because they will be unable to prove they were actually molested. Assume 2 or 3 are tossed out, multiply by $1.1, and round up to $20 million to provide margin of error.

Penn State has grossed several times that number in the last 15 years since it became abundantly clear that Sandusky was a serial child rapist. It really is up to the NCAA to punish Penn State, because otherwise, from a business perspective, Penn State clearly made the right decision in burying the Sandusky situation as long as it did.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
2,044
Reaction Score
1,870
personally i'd be more satisfied with some of these people serving jail time than to see PSU pay out $10m. i'm not saying the victims don't deserve some money, but if PSU pays cash out of their endowment and the school officials that enabled this escape any personal punishment it will be very sad indeed. these types of cover ups will never cease until individuals are held accountable
 

SubbaBub

Your stupidity is ruining my country.
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
32,174
Reaction Score
25,090
That sounds about right, the CC is a good comparison. As for cover ups like this, they will always happen so long ad self-preservation is a dominant part of the human psyche.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
295
Guests online
1,924
Total visitors
2,219

Forum statistics

Threads
159,610
Messages
4,197,654
Members
10,065
Latest member
Rjja


.
Top Bottom