Why isn’t Clingan…

[ClifSpliffy]

Serious question here. Why can't Adama keep a 4 in front of himself on defense, yet is expected to hedge? Is his footspeed not good enough? Help me to understand this please.

becuz, for some odd reason, many here think that every 4 we play against is ... ummmm, ... a playa who can bring it hard, or tomahawk down low, or go all draino from deep, like .....nba Cliff Robinson?
they're not, but for a very select few.

stop asking logical questions. they're just too hard.

 

[superjohn]

Seems like an odd argument if the center shoots a high percentage from 3. I'm not nearly the master strategist that some of you are but it would seem like leaving a center open who shoots 3s at a high percentage is still bad. It's sort of like the argument that someone made yesterday that it doesn't matter whether Jackson is making 3s or not, he shoots them too often. It would seem to me, and I'm not Red Auerbach, that it's not actually bad if they're going in (as they were against Xavier before the last-minute unraveling).

It's a decision on what you live with. McDermott was fine with letting Whaley shoot threes last year, Whaley made them and Creighton won. Miller was fine with letting Jackson shoot threes, he made them until he rushed them in the chaotic last 2 minutes and Xavier won. Hurley was not okay with Nunge shooting threes, it turned into a layup line and UConn lost.

I'll take any 7 footer we play shooting threes over constant rim runs with no rim protection.

 

[August_West]

Seems like an odd argument if the center shoots a high percentage from 3. I'm not nearly the master strategist that some of you are but it would seem like leaving a center open who shoots 3s at a high percentage is still bad. It's sort of like the argument that someone made yesterday that it doesn't matter whether Jackson is making 3s or not, he shoots them too often. It would seem to me, and I'm not Red Auerbach, that it's not actually bad if they're going in (as they were against Xavier before the last-minute unraveling).

This has nothing to do with your post whatsoever, but I aint starting a new thread for it. It just reminded me.

I agree with you about AJ shooting and they are going in.


............but they have to be the shots he's "given" . And this is what I'm getting at. We talk about unraveling? I talked about the Villanova game in BET semis last year (even though it was close later) being given away in the first 6 minutes of second half when we were up 4 when Adama came down and missed multiple chippies in a row after stops. in my mind (even in the moment at my seats) that was the ballgame.

I had the same vibe on my couch on NYE. We worked up to a 7 point lead early in second half against X. we were still working with a margin where on consecutive trips Andre took a 3 that wasn't in transition and wasn't because anyone was "daring him" with 29 seconds left on shot clock in offense initiation from top of key. That's a HORRIBLE shot. It would've been horrible for our good shooters! Next trip Andre knew it was a horrible shot and tried to force feed a roundabout into lane for a turnover. Boom tie game and then Newton started throwing it all over the map. THAT (in my mind) was where we lost the game. It wasn't Hurleys T (although stupid). Winning time for us that game (like many others) was mid to late 2nd half. We tossed it.

Every possession is valuable.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Seems like an odd argument if the center shoots a high percentage from 3. I'm not nearly the master strategist that some of you are but it would seem like leaving a center open who shoots 3s at a high percentage is still bad. It's sort of like the argument that someone made yesterday that it doesn't matter whether Jackson is making 3s or not, he shoots them too often. It would seem to me, and I'm not Red Auerbach, that it's not actually bad if they're going in (as they were against Xavier before the last-minute unraveling).

It's a decision on what you live with. McDermott was fine with letting Whaley shoot threes last year, Whaley made them and Creighton won. Miller was fine with letting Jackson shoot threes, he made them until he rushed them in the chaotic last 2 minutes and Xavier won. Hurley was not okay with Nunge shooting threes, it turned into a layup line and UConn lost.

I'll take any 7 footer we play shooting threes over constant rim runs with no rim protection.

Case in point, Whaley draining 3s vs Creighton last year. McDermott still left him open, because it effectively shut down the other 4 guys. Ultimately you know the coach doesn't want Whaley (or now AJax) taking a dozen 3's. So you say, ok, beat me with that guy.

Does that work? Not with Kalk, because they would be happy to just have him put up 60 if you left him open. Nunge? Freemantle? Dixon? Tougher question. But Hurley spends a lot of effort guarding guys who are not primary scoring options on the perimeter. It reflects our offense too, he seems to think opponents are going to leave the paint to come guard our bigs, and they won't. When Clingan goes out to screen, his man just camps in the paint. Any driving guard gets doubled. Sanogo draws his man out a little further, but they mostly just let him take those shots. I would leave Clingan inside the arc at all times on offense and defense. If we need a screener, use AK or when he's back SJ. Those guys will need to be guarded.

 

[HuskyHawk]

This has nothing to do with your post whatsoever, but I aint starting a new thread for it. It just reminded me.

I agree with you about AJ shooting and they are going in.


............but they have to be the shots he's "given" . And this is what I'm getting at. We talk about unraveling? I talked about the Villanova game in BET semis last year (even though it was close later) being given away in the first 6 minutes of second half when we were up 4 when Adama came down and missed multiple chippies in a row after stops. in my mind (even in the moment at my seats) that was the ballgame.

I had the same vibe on my couch on NYE. We worked up to a 7 point lead early in second half against X. we were still working with a margin where on consecutive trips Andre took a 3 that wasn't in transition and wasn't because anyone was "daring him" with 29 seconds left on shot clock in offense initiation from top of key. That's a HORRIBLE shot. It would've been horrible for our good shooters! Next trip Andre knew it was a horrible shot and tried to force feed a roundabout into lane for a turnover. Boom tie game and then Newton started throwing it all over the map. THAT (in my mind) was where we lost the game. It wasn't Hurleys T (although stupid). Winning time for us that game (like many others) was mid to late 2nd half. We tossed it.

Every possession is valuable.

I had exactly the same view watching that stretch. I was screaming about it. Those possessions needed to be either open 3's for Hawk or AK (and nobody else) or attempts to score inside and hopefully draw fouls. Made it way too easy on the defense.

 

[jibsey]

He came in in the first half at 12:24. Creighton was leading 16-15. He went out at 8:32. Creighton was leading 27-22.
In the second half he came in with 14:57 left. We were leading 53-52. Went out at 11:25. We were leading 58-56.

Where are the runs?

Oh so in his 7 minutes you didn’t see that much? He was preseason player of a tournament that had lots of good players, but you really can’t criticize a player for a 3 or 4 minute stretch in a game when other players didn’t defend. Can we give the kid 20 minutes?

 

[superjohn]

Now is where we will really see Hurley's coaching. He's done a brilliant job assembling a 10 man roster with all dudes who can play and we steamrolled everyone early...

The Big East coaches all watched it and know what we do. The next two coaches we face have owned Hurley and will try and continue to do what we've seen lately. Pack it in against Adama, blanket Hawkins, and let Andre shoot. Hurley has had time to adjust to this and when we show new wrinkles they will most likely have counter adjustments. Providence is good but they don't have our talent and height. It would be nice to see them as the team on their heels all night trying to adjust to what UConn does.

 

[superjohn]

This has nothing to do with your post whatsoever, but I aint starting a new thread for it. It just reminded me.

I agree with you about AJ shooting and they are going in.


............but they have to be the shots he's "given" . And this is what I'm getting at. We talk about unraveling? I talked about the Villanova game in BET semis last year (even though it was close later) being given away in the first 6 minutes of second half when we were up 4 when Adama came down and missed multiple chippies in a row after stops. in my mind (even in the moment at my seats) that was the ballgame.

I had the same vibe on my couch on NYE. We worked up to a 7 point lead early in second half against X. we were still working with a margin where on consecutive trips Andre took a 3 that wasn't in transition and wasn't because anyone was "daring him" with 29 seconds left on shot clock in offense initiation from top of key. That's a HORRIBLE shot. It would've been horrible for our good shooters! Next trip Andre knew it was a horrible shot and tried to force feed a roundabout into lane for a turnover. Boom tie game and then Newton started throwing it all over the map. THAT (in my mind) was where we lost the game. It wasn't Hurleys T (although stupid). Winning time for us that game (like many others) was mid to late 2nd half. We tossed it.

Every possession is valuable.

Hawkins also missed a wide open transition three which maybe could've broken Xavier's back, Sean Miller said as much. That's a shot I think he makes 8 out of 10 times.

 

[August_West]

Hawkins also missed a wide open transition three which maybe could've broken Xavier's back, Sean Miller said as much. That's a shot I think he makes 8 out of 10 times.

Yes.

maybe? Hawk is weird. Hes an elite shooter and is shooting a respectable % this year. But the "dagger" isn't quite in the arsenal yet. I gotta believe its coming.

He makes some real NBA level shots and then misses wide open ones. Sometimes I feel better with him going sideways, double teamed on a curl than a secondary transition wide open bury.

 

[BGesus4]

It's a decision on what you live with. McDermott was fine with letting Whaley shoot threes last year, Whaley made them and Creighton won. Miller was fine with letting Jackson shoot threes, he made them until he rushed them in the chaotic last 2 minutes and Xavier won. Hurley was not okay with Nunge shooting threes, it turned into a layup line and UConn lost.

I'll take any 7 footer we play shooting threes over constant rim runs with no rim protection.

McDermott would not under any circumstances let Nunge shoot open threes as his defensive strategy.

Comparing the 3pt shooting ability of Whaley with Nunge is ridiculous. Letting Nunge shoot is like letting Hawkins shoot, not Whaley.

 

[superjohn]

Yes.

maybe? Hawk is weird. Hes an elite shooter and is shooting a respectable % this year. But the "dagger" isn't quite in the arsenal yet. I gotta believe its coming.

He makes some real NBA level shots and then misses wide open ones. Sometimes I feel better with him going sideways, double teamed on a curl than a secondary transition wide open bury.

True, he's such a talented shooter I'm left wondering why some of those wide open in rhythm ones don't go in.

 

[gtcam]

If you play Adama and Donovan at same time. Who sits? Not Jackson, Not Hawkins. Newton? Bench your primary ball handler and let Jackson run the team? Nah, I don't think so. Bench Karaban, your second outside threat? Basketball requires several skill sets to be integrated. The coaches job is to determine what skills are needed against an opponent at a particular time. A team with AS and DC on the floor would be pressed into oblivion.

Also playing both at the same time gives you a diminished Adama. His strength is playing underneath. Karaban is a better 4 that Adama. So playing Adams at the 4 diminishes your team.

If Sanogo had developed a mid range game this would not be an issue, Karaban, Hawk and/or AJax could take a breather.

 

[Rico444]

Now is where we will really see Hurley's coaching. He's done a brilliant job assembling a 10 man roster with all dudes who can play and we steamrolled everyone early...

The Big East coaches all watched it and know what we do. The next two coaches we face have owned Hurley and will try and continue to do what we've seen lately. Pack it in against Adama, blanket Hawkins, and let Andre shoot. Hurley has had time to adjust to this and when we show new wrinkles they will most likely have counter adjustments. Providence is good but they don't have our talent and height. It would be nice to see them as the team on their heels all night trying to adjust to what UConn does.

We were fine offensively against Xavier.

I want to make sure we're not overreacting to a road loss against a top-20 team. A team that has a configuration that gives us a hard time defensively in Freemantle and Nunge, but that few teams in the Big East can match. It could just be as simple as we had a bad day defensively. Xavier is a top 5 offense in the country, it's not like anything we do is going to shut them down.

 

[Rico444]

I’ll say what I think I saw and I think others agree. It was blatantly obvious Rico like it or not watch it again and give me another reason a competitive player would not make a play please! Do me a favor and don’t post anything you think when you’re on your couch either then ok?

I don't know the exact play you're referencing, but players let up on plays all the time if they're in foul trouble and don't want to draw another foul that could put the team in a bad spot. How do you know Hurley didn't get in Adama's ear going into this game that they needed him to have a big day and stay out of foul trouble? In the Villanova game, the one right before this one, he picked up his 2nd foul right after he got back in the game from being benched for his first. God forbid you give one of the guys on our team the benefit of the doubt, but you jump right to calling him selfish and a "me first" guy. What a joke.

 

[ctchamps]

Nova would play five out if you put Clingan and Sanogo in the game against them and they would drive on our big guys all day long.

Having Clingan and Sanogo play at the same time would completely change how we play offense, and there are only a handful of situations I can see where it would make sense to do it defensively.

So they put five out why can't Hurley make a change? Daniels and Longino were under 30% from three prior to this game. Have Andre play the hot hand if one arises.

Dixon was having his way on offense. Implement the two bigs and if they start hitting their threes then change. I'm not saying start with the two bigs but during the game throw in some defensive wrinkles. The possibility of getting Dixon into foul trouble could have increased with the lineup. Operative word is could. I don't know. No one knows. But with our depth it's worth considering it.

All I'm saying is their is an option for consideration.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Yes.

maybe? Hawk is weird. Hes an elite shooter and is shooting a respectable % this year. But the "dagger" isn't quite in the arsenal yet. I gotta believe its coming.

He makes some real NBA level shots and then misses wide open ones. Sometimes I feel better with him going sideways, double teamed on a curl than a secondary transition wide open bury.

Yeah it’s like the less time he has to think about it, the better chance it has of going in.

 

[superjohn]

We were fine offensively against Xavier.

I want to make sure we're not overreacting to a road loss against a top-20 team. A team that has a configuration that gives us a hard time defensively in Freemantle and Nunge, but that few teams in the Big East can match. It could just be as simple as we had a bad day defensively. Xavier is a top 5 offense in the country, it's not like anything we do is going to shut them down.

Agreed, defense was the big problem last game but we haven't looked like the same team since Big East play started. Final score for Xavier was deceiving in that it was closer than the final score was and final score in the other three were deceiving in how close they were for much of the game.

There's probably some overreaction to the loss but I don't think we're using our size and athleticism on D and on O like we should be lately, hoping it changes tonight.

My gripe is always sending Sanogo out on the perimeter on D and Clingan's minutes being cut.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Seems like an odd argument if the center shoots a high percentage from 3. I'm not nearly the master strategist that some of you are but it would seem like leaving a center open who shoots 3s at a high percentage is still bad. It's sort of like the argument that someone made yesterday that it doesn't matter whether Jackson is making 3s or not, he shoots them too often. It would seem to me, and I'm not Red Auerbach, that it's not actually bad if they're going in (as they were against Xavier before the last-minute unraveling).

It’s not that neither is bad. It’s just which one would you live with.

We’re by all means a great 3 point shooting team. Yet teams have been able to pack the paint against us and let us hoist 3s recently. Games have become closer as a result. 3s are inherently more difficult to make than a layup. No matter how good of a shooter you are. You’re hardly ever going to miss an open layup.

 

[mauconnfan]

Nova would play five out if you put Clingan and Sanogo in the game against them and they would drive on our big guys all day long.

Having Clingan and Sanogo play at the same time would completely change how we play offense, and there are only a handful of situations I can see where it would make sense to do it defensively.

5 out against a zone with 7'2 and 6'8 on in the paint? I mean let's be honest make them shoot the ball from the outside, zone them up and then shove it down their "5 out" throats on the other end. If they're making 3's it ends, if they're not you win the matchup for a while. But 5 out aren't getting to the lane against a zone with those 2 in the game, nope!

 

[jake14mw]

Oh so in his 7 minutes you didn’t see that much? He was preseason player of a tournament that had lots of good players, but you really can’t criticize a player for a 3 or 4 minute stretch in a game when other players didn’t defend. Can we give the kid 20 minutes?

I'm not criticizing him at all. Clingan has been fantastic. UConnSwag11 said "He came in and we went on a run...". I simply pointed out that we did not go on a run either time he came in.

 

[mauconnfan]

I don't know the exact play you're referencing, but players let up on plays all the time if they're in foul trouble and don't want to draw another foul that could put the team in a bad spot. How do you know Hurley didn't get in Adama's ear going into this game that they needed him to have a big day and stay out of foul trouble? In the Villanova game, the one right before this one, he picked up his 2nd foul right after he got back in the game from being benched for his first. God forbid you give one of the guys on our team the benefit of the doubt, but you jump right to calling him selfish and a "me first" guy. What a joke.

It was early and he had a foul, the ball was coming right at him and he followed his guy when the Musketeer was getting to the rim with our defender trailing, he needed to make that play. Call it what you want, he backed off it was more than obvious. If it's Hurley then he needs to understand he has a fully capable back up who didn't play enough anyway! If it was Hurley feeding him a reason to back off then I take it back if not, then call me a joke. Don't really care, I see it as I see it!

 

[uconnfan68]

We were fine offensively against Xavier.

I want to make sure we're not overreacting to a road loss against a top-20 team. A team that has a configuration that gives us a hard time defensively in Freemantle and Nunge, but that few teams in the Big East can match. It could just be as simple as we had a bad day defensively. Xavier is a top 5 offense in the country, it's not like anything we do is going to shut them down.

The whole discussion has been about why didn't we TRY to do something different.

 

[CL82]

I feel like I’ve been teleported to the 1990s.

Well, the 1990s, particularly the end of the decade, were pretty good to us.

 

[PAHusky]

5 out against a zone with 7'2 and 6'8 on in the paint? I mean let's be honest make them shoot the ball from the outside, zone them up and then shove it down their "5 out" throats on the other end. If they're making 3's it ends, if they're not you win the matchup for a while. But 5 out aren't getting to the lane against a zone with those 2 in the game, nope!

No kidding 5 out aren't getting into the lane with those two in the game, they're standing outside three point line raining open looks on us. Shoving it down their throats on the other end sounds cool on a message board, but in reality it means more two point attempts in a crowded lane, zero spacing, less transition points.....

Did you see us try to force the ball into AS during the Nova game? Disaster. Our offensive works best when the floor is spaced with shooters and the ball moves quickly.

 

[mauconnfan]

No kidding 5 out aren't getting into the lane with those two in the game, they're standing outside three point line raining open looks on us. Shoving it down their throats on the other end sounds cool on a message board, but in reality it means more two point attempts in a crowded lane, zero spacing, less transition points.....

Did you see us try to force the ball into AS during the Nova game? Disaster. Our offensive works best when the floor is spaced with shooters and the ball moves quickly.

Wait do your homework please this isn't the Nova of the past they don't rain 3s and X was 4 for 13 from 3 you know why? Because they were scoring at ease in the paint, taking our guys off the dribble.

I am not saying it's the ONLY way to go but to not try it is crazy to say the least. Especially when we aren't shooting or guarding well.

And yeah I watched us force the ball into Sanogo with some crappy passes, and he didn't get great position. Let me see they were fronting him, can they front DC? Please do