Why isn’t Clingan…

[UCSouth]

One thing Hurley can't do is worry about next year, this program is primed to make a run at the title this year, next year be damned, don't give a crap about next year. If Hurley is massaging the playing time with one eye toward next season he is making a huge mistake.

We are at our best when Clingan is on the court, end of story. There is no justification for not giving him more playing time. If it means Clingan becomes a star and turns pro end of season so be it, that outcome would give Sanogo all the playing time he wants next season. Either split the minutes at center 50/50 or move Sanogo to the 4, but Clingan needs to play.

Also Sanogo is a defensive liability. That needs to change.

Is Sanogo the liability on defense, or is the defense he is forced to play creating the liability?

 

[uconnfan68]

One thing Hurley can't do is worry about next year, this program is primed to make a run at the title this year, next year be damned, don't give a crap about next year. If Hurley is massaging the playing time with one eye toward next season he is making a huge mistake.

We are at our best when Clingan is on the court, end of story. There is no justification for not giving him more playing time. If it means Clingan becomes a star and turns pro end of season so be it, that outcome would give Sanogo all the playing time he wants next season. Either split the minutes at center 50/50 or move Sanogo to the 4, but Clingan needs to play.

Also Sanogo is a defensive liability. That needs to change.

I agree with first paragraph.

 

[mauconnfan]

Sanogo is too worried about picking up fouls to challenge shots like he should be. He can’t score from the bench.

Either that or he can’t play a lick of defense.

Early first half Saturday he already had one foul and he had a chance at an easy step in help but decided to get out of the way. It seems it’s more important that he stay in the game to get his points than to contest a drive and help your teammates. I was pissed about that play!

 

[MuchoDogYears]

Early first half Saturday he already had one foul and he had a chance at an easy step in help but decided to get out of the way. It seems it’s more important that he stay in the game to get his points than to contest a drive and help your teammates. I was pissed about that play!

yeah i remember that play and thinking WTF? We're a deep team, a defensive team, and here's Sanogo not contesting. Why?

The only answer was he didn't want to risk picking up a 2nd foul. Why? Because he knew he'd be sat down and Clingan would come in. But that's our strength, quality depth!

If Sanogo, or any starter, avoids fouls by playing matador defense then that player needs to be benched and told in no uncertain terms that, for this team this year, he needs to play all out on D and not worry about fouls.

 

[jibsey]

yeah i remember that play and thinking WTF? We're a deep team, a defensive team, and here's Sanogo not contesting. Why?

The only answer was he didn't want to risk picking up a 2nd foul. Why? Because he knew he'd be sat down and Clingan would come in. But that's our strength, quality depth!

If Sanogo, or any starter, avoids fouls by playing matador defense then that player needs to be benched and told in no uncertain terms that, for this team this year, he needs to play all out on D and not worry about fouls.

He’s got to be smart about those fouls not wasting them on the perimeter or illegal screens, but we have 10 fouls to give. If they both got 2 fouls in the first half you couldn’t sit them both right?

 

[MuchoDogYears]

He’s got to be smart about those fouls not wasting them on the perimeter or illegal screens, but we have 10 fouls to give. If they both got 2 fouls in the first half you couldn’t sit them both right?

Right. Why would you sit both when they'd have 6 total fouls still to give?

But yeah, don't waste fouls on illegal screens, reach-ins, etc. Challenging a player at the rim isn't a waste, it's a hard message foul at worst and a clean block at best.

 

[navery12]

He’s got to be smart about those fouls not wasting them on the perimeter or illegal screens, but we have 10 fouls to give. If they both got 2 fouls in the first half you couldn’t sit them both right?

Current roster I'm not sure what would happen, probably roll the dice on one of them not picking up a 3rd if it's a tight game. Another spot where getting Samson back could really help

 

[mauconnfan]

Right. Why would you sit both when they'd have 6 total fouls still to give?

But yeah, don't waste fouls on illegal screens, reach-ins, etc. Challenging a player at the rim isn't a waste, it's a hard message foul at worst and a clean block at best.

Yes this ^^^I hate when guys reach when there’s a breakaway, or reach on a dribble or move on a pick to get a piece of s guy please don’t get stupid fouls. This play in particular was one he easily could have moved his feet to be in excellent position to make a play and stop the drive, heck if he wanted to it was the perfect position to pick up a charge. But no, he played matador. Unacceptable period!

 

[oldhusky]

Espn has the minutes played. Starters (except Karaban) played between 33-37 minutes. Karaban played 20 minutes. They went at him and got him in foul trouble. Diarra 12 , Joey C. 11 and Alleyne 14.

Clingan 7 minutes.

I don't think they had an answer for him at the rim from what I saw as well as his passing ability and rebounding. This also would have given Sanogo a breather down the stretch.

They outrebounded us 38-31 and we had more turnovers 16-12.

Seems they used the same tactics as Villanova by packing into the paint to deny Sanogo and give us the outside shot. Jackson shot 12 threes. He made 4 (33%). Normally 12 seems like a lot for him but you have to take what they give you or put someone else in for that. On the bright side the more he shoots the more confidence and better he'll get; especially if they give him free ones.

Let's hope they can learn and adjust from this one. More tough games ahead.

The sad reality is that until they are played together, Clingan will get fewer minutes in the most important games than he has averaged thus far this season. You could make a case that he is the best player on the team right now, in terms of PER stats he is so far.

Regardless in the easy wins Sanogo might get 25 and Clingan 15, but in the toughest games Sanogo will likely be well over 30 and Clingan under 10, unless Danny is willing to use Sanogo at the 4, which IMO is his more likely pro position anyway. Having your first or second best player getting 7 minutes in a big game while Diarra and Alleyne get 12 and 14 respectively is crazy. Those two players have been weak links so far, and a relative liability in the rotation.

If you didn't have some versatility with existing players the current use might make more sense, but I think Sanogo can be a very good 4, certainly better than Karaban. The subs for the guards can be limited to two players, Joey C and Karaban. Karaban can play the 3 and 4 as the principle backup to both. When he comes in at the 3 Jackson can move to the 1 or 2, so he could substitute for any guard, and if you want a true guard you use Joey. No need to go to Diarra or Alleyne at all if you don't want to.

Karaban still gets plenty of minutes, some at the 3, and most of the backup minutes for Clingan and Sanogo who now can get 30+ minutes each in the games that count. That tight and somewhat stretched rotation of 7 allows big minutes for your two best players, and cuts out unproductive minutes from two players currently in the rotation. I'm sure Danny would probably go to an 8th or 9th player occasionally, but it could be for very limited minutes. Much more Clingan, far less Diarra and Alleyne. Even if some players are a little less effective at another position, that gap in talent is pretty hard to explain away with tunnel vision on fixed positions IMO.

 

[dennismenace]

The sad reality is that until they are played together, Clingan will get fewer minutes in the most important games than he has averaged thus far this season. You could make a case that he is the best player on the team right now, in terms of PER stats he is so far.

Regardless in the easy wins Sanogo might get 25 and Clingan 15, but in the toughest games Sanogo will likely be well over 30 and Clingan under 10, unless Danny is willing to use Sanogo at the 4, which IMO is his more likely pro position anyway. Having your first or second best player getting 7 minutes in a big game while Diarra and Alleyne get 12 and 14 respectively is crazy. Those two players have been weak links so far, and a relative liability in the rotation.

If you didn't have some versatility with existing players the current use might make more sense, but I think Sanogo can be a very good 4, certainly better than Karaban. The subs for the guards can be limited to two players, Joey C and Karaban. Karaban can play the 3 and 4 as the principle backup to both. When he comes in at the 3 Jackson can move to the 1 or 2, so he could substitute for any guard, and if you want a true guard you use Joey. No need to go to Diarra or Alleyne at all if you don't want to.

Karaban still gets plenty of minutes, some at the 3, and most of the backup minutes for Clingan and Sanogo who now can get 30+ minutes each in the games that count. That tight and somewhat stretched rotation of 7 allows big minutes for your two best players, and cuts out unproductive minutes from two players currently in the rotation. I'm sure Danny would probably go to an 8th or 9th player occasionally, but it could be for very limited minutes. Much more Clingan, far less Diarra and Alleyne. Even if some players are a little less effective at another position, that gap in talent is pretty hard to explain away with tunnel vision on fixed positions IMO.

I would be happy if he went to 25-15 as a general rule and more or less based on the opponent or if Sanogo gets in foul trouble. That assumes they are in the 5 slot.

Beyond that I think the positions are settled as far as DH is concerned. Diarra is a much better defensive player than Joey C. and he brings speed in transition when his defense causes turnovers.
I think he is the fastest player and ignites the transition game; especially later in the game when the opponent is fatigued. They actually play well together (second team in practice). I also would not sell Alleyne short. He is a proven player on defense and offense and will provide stability down the stretch and post season.

We seem to be built in terms of minutes for more of speed/transition team but we are playing way too much half court for that line-up and without Clingan and with a weaker Karaban (against bigger or more physical teams) we play into the new strategy against us (pack it in/ stop the drives and give the threes to the less consistent shooters.

 

[metsfan2323]

The sad reality is that until they are played together, Clingan will get fewer minutes in the most important games than he has averaged thus far this season. You could make a case that he is the best player on the team right now, in terms of PER stats he is so far.

If true, excuse me for thinking this would be an asinine decision by DH. We are at our best when Clingan is on the floor and I would argue he is a more impactful player than Sanogo.

Clingan is a complete player (a true center, capable of dominating) and Sanogo is not. Sango giveth and Sanogo taketh away, he almost negates himself.

 

[HuskyHawk]

If true, excuse me for thinking this would be an asinine decision by DH. We are at our best when Clingan is on the floor and I would argue he is a more impactful player than Sanogo.

Clingan is a complete player and Sanogo is not. Sango giveth and Sanogo taketh away, he almost negates himself.

What utter nonsense. Clingan can't guard any of the 4 bigs we just faced, so he didn't play much. Sanogo is our best player and it isn't particularly close.

 

[metsfan2323]

What utter nonsense. Clingan can't guard any of the 4 bigs we just faced, so he didn't play much. Sanogo is our best player and it isn't particularly close.

LOL, OK, you are watching a different game than I am. Clingan can't guard anyone from the bench, Sanogo couldn't guard anyone on the floor Saturday.

 

[UConnSwag11]

What utter nonsense. Clingan can't guard any of the 4 bigs we just faced, so he didn't play much. Sanogo is our best player and it isn't particularly close.

He came in and we went on a run. Dixon wanted nothing to do with him. Neither did Nunge or Freemantle. Sanogo is light years ahead of Clingan offensively. Clingan has the size and Sanogo does not. Sanogo positions himself for rebounds while Clingan can block/alter shots. Clingan stands there to grab rebounds like an adult at youth basketball. Clingan blocked a jumpshot 10 feet away from the basket

 

[UConnSwag11]

If true, excuse me for thinking this would be an asinine decision by DH. We are at our best when Clingan is on the floor and I would argue he is a more impactful player than Sanogo.

Clingan is a complete player (a true center, capable of dominating) and Sanogo is not. Sango giveth and Sanogo taketh away, he almost negates himself.

Clingan is not a complete player and that's not a knock on him.

 

[metsfan2323]

Clingan is not a complete player and that's not a knock on him.

He is nowhere near reaching his potential which is enormous.

He is a more complete player than Sanogo IMO especially when we are talking about playing the center position.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

He is nowhere near reaching his potential which is enormous.

He is a more complete player than Sanogo IMO especially when we are talking about playing the center position.

I know what you mean.

Clingan does things centers are suppose to do better than Sanogo. Rebound, block shots, run rim to rim. Sanogo is just more skilled and polished right now.

There’s a reason we always went on runs when he was on the floor before conference play began. It was like clock work. Beating a dead horse but it’d be stupid to limit his minutes with the ample evidence we have on how he impacts the game. Our bench won us a lot of games during OOC, we have to keep using it with conference play here.

 

[jibsey]

I know what you mean.

Clingan does things centers are suppose to do better than Sanogo. Rebound, block shots, run rim to rim. Sanogo is just more skilled and polished right now.

There’s a reason we always went on runs when he was on the floor before conference play began. It was like clock work. Beating a dead horse but it’d be stupid to limit his minutes with the ample evidence we have on how he impacts the game. Our bench won us a lot of games during OOC, we have to keep using it with conference play here.

I always want coaches to give minutes to potentially good players who are developing in the hope it pays off in important games later. Clingan has shown us enough to warrant that and if he makes mistakes now so be it, it’s early. Interesting to see what happens tomorrow.

 

[gtcam]

What utter nonsense. Clingan can't guard any of the 4 bigs we just faced, so he didn't play much. Sanogo is our best player and it isn't particularly close.

Sorry HH but you underestimate DC greatly - as far as guarding the 4 bigs - AS was defending air more than a body. He was less than effective defensively vs Gtown, Nova and Xavier. DC showed some nice D in Oregon vs some quality talent.
AS is the best player at scoring down low, yes. But there's more to the game than 1 aspect.
DC is a 5. AS is a big 4 without a midrange game - a tweener.
DC is a better 5 - and it's not particularly close
AS means more to the team due to his presence and pre-season laurels - yes he was the best player on last years team - by far. However, there are much better talent around him now and that makes a difference. The team, in a way, looks for him to be a leader different than AJax.
Nobody says AS should sit but DH cannot ignore what he has in DC - he's the only real 5 the team has right now.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Sorry HH but you underestimate DC greatly - as far as guarding the 4 bigs - AS was defending air more than a body. He was less than effective defensively vs Gtown, Nova and Xavier. DC showed some nice D in Oregon vs some quality talent.
AS is the best player at scoring down low, yes. But there's more to the game than 1 aspect.
DC is a 5. AS is a big 4 without a midrange game - a tweener.
DC is a better 5 - and it's not particularly close
AS means more to the team due to his presence and pre-season laurels - yes he was the best player on last years team - by far. However, there are much better talent around him now and that makes a difference. The team, in a way, looks for him to be a leader different than AJax.
Nobody says AS should sit but DH cannot ignore what he has in DC - he's the only real 5 the team has right now.

I feel like I’ve been teleported to the 1990s.

 

[jake14mw]

He came in and we went on a run...

He came in in the first half at 12:24. Creighton was leading 16-15. He went out at 8:32. Creighton was leading 27-22.
In the second half he came in with 14:57 left. We were leading 53-52. Went out at 11:25. We were leading 58-56.

Where are the runs?

 

[superjohn]

He came in in the first half at 12:24. Creighton was leading 16-15. He went out at 8:32. Creighton was leading 27-22.
In the second half he came in with 14:57 left. We were leading 53-52. Went out at 11:25. We were leading 58-56.

Where are the runs?

Kalkbrenner is a tough cover.

 

[PAHusky]

Sorry HH but you underestimate DC greatly - as far as guarding the 4 bigs - AS was defending air more than a body. He was less than effective defensively vs Gtown, Nova and Xavier. DC showed some nice D in Oregon vs some quality talent.
AS is the best player at scoring down low, yes. But there's more to the game than 1 aspect.
DC is a 5. AS is a big 4 without a midrange game - a tweener.
DC is a better 5 - and it's not particularly close
AS means more to the team due to his presence and pre-season laurels - yes he was the best player on last years team - by far. However, there are much better talent around him now and that makes a difference. The team, in a way, looks for him to be a leader different than AJax.
Nobody says AS should sit but DH cannot ignore what he has in DC - he's the only real 5 the team has right now.

1. DC may be a better interior defender than AS right now, but there's no way he can guard anyone at all on the perimeter - AS might be bad out there but DC would get cooked. That's what makes the whole "play them together" idea laughable - if you stay in man neither can match up with a 4 w/ any quickness.

2. AS is not a 4 without a jump shot, or "not a real 5". He's an undersized 5 who's one of the best players in the conference/country playing there. DC will eventually - most likely - be a better 5. He is not right now.

I think the answer here is to just rotate the two of them more at the 5. Keeps AS fresh and gives DC more run. But trying to replace AS w/ DC, or to play them together, makes no sense.

 

[Rico444]

Early first half Saturday he already had one foul and he had a chance at an easy step in help but decided to get out of the way. It seems it’s more important that he stay in the game to get his points than to contest a drive and help your teammates. I was pissed about that play!

You can make your point without trying to get into Sanogo's head. There is absolutely zero indication that he didn't contest that play so he could "stay in the game to get his points." I hate when fans sitting on their couch try to get in a player's head like that and assume they're being selfish and only care about their own personal stats

 

[ctchamps]

Is Sanogo the liability on defense, or is the defense he is forced to play creating the liability?

Put me in the category that teams like Nova, Xavier and Creighton that have a good passing center that can make threes and play four out with good three point shooters should be played differently from teams that don’t have this.

The high hedge that Sonogo did on Nunge was too easily exploited by Nunge because Xavier has players spread away from the basket so no one is adequately positioned to stop a player that gets free on screens.

Because Donovan doesn’t have the foot speed that Adama has Hurley kept him between Nunge and the basket allowing him to be able to neutralize that situation. It’s a case of picking how you want to deal with a team with no weaknesses on offense. And I rather have Nunge be less tightly guarded on the perimeter to make threes than allowing an open lane.

My preference would be to have Adama not routinely do hedges on these type of teams but also not to position himself always like Donovan. There should be more variability with him and with our defenders guarding their perimeter players. If there is a poor shooter sag off him like opposing teams do with Andre. Or pretend to sag but run back to the player they are guarding to confuse the passer.

With teams that drive to the basket or back into our players to score and have poor perimeter shooting clog the lane like other teams are doing to us. That would be the situation I’d have Clingan and Adama in together. Offense would suffer but defense would be difficult to beat.