Why isn’t Clingan…

[tjhusky]

I told my friend at halftime that we went on that big run at end of the half with Nunge on the bench. At the time didn't know why he didn't play the last 7 min of the 1st half. We later found out that he didn't feel well. When he's in the game it's a big problem for us because it pulls Sanogo out and leaves Karabaon or Jackson on the bigger Freemantle. It also allows the guards to get to the rim easier. If Samson comes back to pre injury form and helps fix this problem

Sampson seems like the miss pice right now. At least as another long 4 to defend and rebound. Scoring would be a plus.

Playing 4 out has worked for us so far but was not working for us all game today
I was wondering about a DC AS lineup vs X. I am guessing the negatives out way the positives. For teams with a couple of big skilled players we have to figure out a line up that can defend and score.

 

[Ricker]

Xavier played like the quality team they are and earned the win. Our head coach helped by scoring 2 points for them which killed available game strategy. He also helped with a lousy defensive scheme and keeping Clingan on the bench. Sean Miller is laughing.

We switched a bunch of times ending with Sanogo out at the 3 point line and a guard against a big in the lane. It can't happen as a purposeful defensive plan and we did it over and over. Karaban on multiple occasions got fouls trying to guard a wing and the lane at the same time because we are taking Sanogo out of the lane. Clingan and Sanogo belong in the paint!! Clingan more minutes, less switching, Pleeaase.

I did love that open shooters found higher percentage shooters at times, and, Sanogo going upstairs for the tip in. The closing run at the end of the first half was excellent. I thought all the players helped the cause and that the game was lost in the strategy.

 

[giddyup]

It looks like Clingan scores easier bc he doesn’t create for himself

Working your rear end off to score, not playing good D and losing the boards is not a formula for success. I don’t care if he was preseason All American if playing him means the overall team suffers. 2 bad games and you better believe the same playbook will be thrown at us until Danny take his head of his own rear end.

 

[UConnSwag11]

Working your rear end off to score, not playing good D and losing the boards is not a formula for success. I don’t care if he was preseason All American if playing him means the overall team suffers. 2 bad games and you better believe the same playbook will be thrown at us until Danny take his head of his own rear end.

What are you talking about?

 

[businesslawyer]

Sanogo looked tired on defense the whole game he was awful. He scored some points but gave up just as many if not more. It’s insanity to have a 33-7 difference in minutes in this game for these 2 guys. And to have 2 bigs having their way from X and trying not to counter with 2 bigs is incredibly stubborn.

If we are ever going to play them together, this was the game. There are a lot of teams that Sanogo can’t play the 4 against defensively, but he can certainly handle Fremantle and let DC play Nunge. So we learned today it’s not going to happen. It will be nice if Hurley’s stubbornness and lack of control of emotions doesn’t keep this team from achieving what it can.

Don’t get me wrong — Hurley is doing a good job upping our talent level and did a good job figuring out generally how these pieces were going to fit into the puzzle. And, while today wasn’t an example, kids play for him hard and with great defensive intensity. But he still has to prove he won’t hold the team back at big moments.

 

[Rocktheworld]

How dominant could Sanogo be if he was rested and only playing 30 minutes a game?

 

[uconn_jack]

The last few games it seems he's been subbing in Clingan just to rest Sanogo, not putting him in to give the offense a different look and force the other team to adjust. Once Sanogo is rested, he's been putting him right back in regardless of how Clingan or the team is doing. That is a complete waste, Clingan is too good to just hold the fort down. Its weird because that's not how Hurley was using him in the earlier games, in fact, he seemed to be building him up to be 15+ mpg guy and running some offense through him when he was in there.

Don't know what has changed, but I think the pressure of being #2 and undefeated has gotten to him as much as maybe the team, tightening up and leaving/putting the starters in more even if its not working. The strength of our depth isn't about having 4-5 bench guys who can come in and hold down the fort while the starters get a blow, its about have 4-5 guys who can significantly contribute. He has used the bench masterfully in most games up until today, he just didn't trust them or himself today for some reason.

 

[bigknight3]

Karaban gets outmuscled against certain teams. Why couldn’t AS play PF and have DC at center.

Go gets some facts (read the other 4 threads on this topic) and come back and see us.

The biggest defensive liability today was Adama on the perimeter or getting stuck in switches and caus ok ng bad rotations.

This would have been worse if he was playing the 4. Clingan playing more at the 5 against Nundge could have happened without playing AS at the 4.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

The last few games it seems he's been subbing in Clingan just to rest Sanogo, not putting him in to give the offense a different look and force the other team to adjust. Once Sanogo is rested, he's been putting him right back in regardless of how Clingan or the team is doing. That is a complete waste, Clingan is too good to just hold the fort down. Its weird because that's not how Hurley was using him in the earlier games, in fact, he seemed to be building him up to be 15+ mpg guy and running some offense through him when he was in there.

Don't know what has changed, but I think the pressure of being #2 and undefeated has gotten to him as much as maybe the team, tightening up and leaving/putting the starters in more even if its not working. The strength of our depth isn't about having 4-5 bench guys who can come in and hold down the fort while the starters get a blow, its about have 4-5 guys who can significantly contribute. He has used the bench masterfully in most games up until today, he just didn't trust them or himself today for some reason.

He had a bad game.
I hope he bounces back.

 

[martyn]

Hurley is playing the long game, hopefully. By tournament time he'll be the dominant presence on the team.

Something to consider though is whether Hurley thinks there's a chance of keeping Sanogo another year, but the chance will be less if Sanogo sees himself losing playing time.

 

[jibsey]

Clingan has a different game than Sanogo who gets the ball and everyone in the hemisphere then knows he’s going into a backdown offensive mode even as he’s doubled. He has to get 20 minutes a game and I’m sure there will be some mistakes in there but doesn’t Sanogo make mistakes, but this isn’t even a choice because for 6-8 minutes both could be out there together. Crazy good things could happen.

 

[metsfan2323]

Hurley is playing the long game, hopefully. By tournament time he'll be the dominant presence on the team.

Something to consider though is whether Hurley thinks there's a chance of keeping Sanogo another year, but the chance will be less if Sanogo sees himself losing playing time.

One thing Hurley can't do is worry about next year, this program is primed to make a run at the title this year, next year be damned, don't give a crap about next year. If Hurley is massaging the playing time with one eye toward next season he is making a huge mistake.

We are at our best when Clingan is on the court, end of story. There is no justification for not giving him more playing time. If it means Clingan becomes a star and turns pro end of season so be it, that outcome would give Sanogo all the playing time he wants next season. Either split the minutes at center 50/50 or move Sanogo to the 4, but Clingan needs to play.

Also Sanogo is a defensive liability. That needs to change.

 

[Jay-Bone]

AS playing Fremantle out at the 3 point line is suicide defensively.

Suicide by poison instead of the seppuku we got by letting X dominate the gaping hole in the paint.

 

[Jay-Bone]

How dominant could Sanogo be if he was rested and only playing 30 minutes a game?

And he wasn't the focus of double and even triple teams?

 

[businesslawyer]

Hurley is playing the long game, hopefully. By tournament time he'll be the dominant presence on the team.

Something to consider though is whether Hurley thinks there's a chance of keeping Sanogo another year, but the chance will be less if Sanogo sees himself losing playing time.

You have to play every year for this year. If you aren’t coaching as hard as you can to win, how can you expect your players to be all in for the success of the team. Plus, you can give a player everything they want and by next year they could be injured, in the portal or playing professionally.

I don’t doubt Danny is trying to win right now. How effective he is on game day is still a question he’ll have to prove the answer to. But as I keep saying, he has to get credit for all the things on other days he’s doing to have us 14-1

 

[CONN78SEJ]

It looks like Clingan scores easier bc he doesn’t create for himself

Oh really???? You mean when Clingan had his back to the basket with Eric Dixon right behind him, and DC pivots 180 degrees for an easy off the glass shot on the other side of the basket? I’d like to see Adama create that kind of shot.

 

[martyn]

You have to play every year for this year. If you aren’t coaching as hard as you can to win, how can you expect your players to be all in for the success of the team. Plus, you can give a player everything they want and by next year they could be injured, in the portal or playing professionally.

I don’t doubt Danny is trying to win right now. How effective he is on game day is still a question he’ll have to prove the answer to. But as I keep saying, he has to get credit for all the things on other days he’s doing to have us 14-1

I don't doubt he is trying to win right now either and the only reason for nursing the big guy along is tournament preparation. The Sanogo
mention is a possible fact of life not a rationale.

 

[CTBasketball]

One thing Hurley can't do is worry about next year, this program is primed to make a run at the title this year, next year be damned, don't give a crap about next year. If Hurley is massaging the playing time with one eye toward next season he is making a huge mistake.

We are at our best when Clingan is on the court, end of story. There is no justification for not giving him more playing time. If it means Clingan becomes a star and turns pro end of season so be it, that outcome would give Sanogo all the playing time he wants next season. Either split the minutes at center 50/50 or move Sanogo to the 4, but Clingan needs to play.

Also Sanogo is a defensive liability. That needs to change.

Sanogo is too worried about picking up fouls to challenge shots like he should be. He can’t score from the bench.

Either that or he can’t play a lick of defense.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Playing more????

Played two straight games against bigs that can shoot from outside. It’s a bad matchup for him. He can’t really guard those guys on the perimeter. He will see more minutes against PC.

 

[Kembacity]

Alley -oops and 2 ft shots from the rim are about as efficient as you can get in basketball. With hands as good as his you can just lob it up to the rim and it’s a high percentage play. He came out and blocked Freemantle’s shot. He’s a disruptor and not something you can gameplan for. That is why he warrants minutes.

Yeah, I agree with that. I was responding to someone saying clingans offensive game is better than Sanogos which it most certainly is not. With Clingan the game becomes “when are we throwing the alley oop?”, and at times with Jackson/calcaterra/Newton it works, but some teams will D it better than others

 

[UCSouth]

One thing Hurley can't do is worry about next year, this program is primed to make a run at the title this year, next year be damned, don't give a crap about next year. If Hurley is massaging the playing time with one eye toward next season he is making a huge mistake.

We are at our best when Clingan is on the court, end of story. There is no justification for not giving him more playing time. If it means Clingan becomes a star and turns pro end of season so be it, that outcome would give Sanogo all the playing time he wants next season. Either split the minutes at center 50/50 or move Sanogo to the 4, but Clingan needs to play.

Also Sanogo is a defensive liability. That needs to change.

Is Sanogo the liability on defense, or is the defense he is forced to play creating the liability?

 

[uconnfan68]

One thing Hurley can't do is worry about next year, this program is primed to make a run at the title this year, next year be damned, don't give a crap about next year. If Hurley is massaging the playing time with one eye toward next season he is making a huge mistake.

We are at our best when Clingan is on the court, end of story. There is no justification for not giving him more playing time. If it means Clingan becomes a star and turns pro end of season so be it, that outcome would give Sanogo all the playing time he wants next season. Either split the minutes at center 50/50 or move Sanogo to the 4, but Clingan needs to play.

Also Sanogo is a defensive liability. That needs to change.

I agree with first paragraph.

 

[mauconnfan]

Sanogo is too worried about picking up fouls to challenge shots like he should be. He can’t score from the bench.

Either that or he can’t play a lick of defense.

Early first half Saturday he already had one foul and he had a chance at an easy step in help but decided to get out of the way. It seems it’s more important that he stay in the game to get his points than to contest a drive and help your teammates. I was pissed about that play!

 

[MuchoDogYears]

Early first half Saturday he already had one foul and he had a chance at an easy step in help but decided to get out of the way. It seems it’s more important that he stay in the game to get his points than to contest a drive and help your teammates. I was pissed about that play!

yeah i remember that play and thinking WTF? We're a deep team, a defensive team, and here's Sanogo not contesting. Why?

The only answer was he didn't want to risk picking up a 2nd foul. Why? Because he knew he'd be sat down and Clingan would come in. But that's our strength, quality depth!

If Sanogo, or any starter, avoids fouls by playing matador defense then that player needs to be benched and told in no uncertain terms that, for this team this year, he needs to play all out on D and not worry about fouls.

 

[jibsey]

yeah i remember that play and thinking WTF? We're a deep team, a defensive team, and here's Sanogo not contesting. Why?

The only answer was he didn't want to risk picking up a 2nd foul. Why? Because he knew he'd be sat down and Clingan would come in. But that's our strength, quality depth!

If Sanogo, or any starter, avoids fouls by playing matador defense then that player needs to be benched and told in no uncertain terms that, for this team this year, he needs to play all out on D and not worry about fouls.

He’s got to be smart about those fouls not wasting them on the perimeter or illegal screens, but we have 10 fouls to give. If they both got 2 fouls in the first half you couldn’t sit them both right?

 

[MuchoDogYears]

He’s got to be smart about those fouls not wasting them on the perimeter or illegal screens, but we have 10 fouls to give. If they both got 2 fouls in the first half you couldn’t sit them both right?

Right. Why would you sit both when they'd have 6 total fouls still to give?

But yeah, don't waste fouls on illegal screens, reach-ins, etc. Challenging a player at the rim isn't a waste, it's a hard message foul at worst and a clean block at best.

 

[navery12]

He’s got to be smart about those fouls not wasting them on the perimeter or illegal screens, but we have 10 fouls to give. If they both got 2 fouls in the first half you couldn’t sit them both right?

Current roster I'm not sure what would happen, probably roll the dice on one of them not picking up a 3rd if it's a tight game. Another spot where getting Samson back could really help

 

[mauconnfan]

Right. Why would you sit both when they'd have 6 total fouls still to give?

But yeah, don't waste fouls on illegal screens, reach-ins, etc. Challenging a player at the rim isn't a waste, it's a hard message foul at worst and a clean block at best.

Yes this ^^^I hate when guys reach when there’s a breakaway, or reach on a dribble or move on a pick to get a piece of s guy please don’t get stupid fouls. This play in particular was one he easily could have moved his feet to be in excellent position to make a play and stop the drive, heck if he wanted to it was the perfect position to pick up a charge. But no, he played matador. Unacceptable period!

 

[oldhusky]

Espn has the minutes played. Starters (except Karaban) played between 33-37 minutes. Karaban played 20 minutes. They went at him and got him in foul trouble. Diarra 12 , Joey C. 11 and Alleyne 14.

Clingan 7 minutes.

I don't think they had an answer for him at the rim from what I saw as well as his passing ability and rebounding. This also would have given Sanogo a breather down the stretch.

They outrebounded us 38-31 and we had more turnovers 16-12.

Seems they used the same tactics as Villanova by packing into the paint to deny Sanogo and give us the outside shot. Jackson shot 12 threes. He made 4 (33%). Normally 12 seems like a lot for him but you have to take what they give you or put someone else in for that. On the bright side the more he shoots the more confidence and better he'll get; especially if they give him free ones.

Let's hope they can learn and adjust from this one. More tough games ahead.

The sad reality is that until they are played together, Clingan will get fewer minutes in the most important games than he has averaged thus far this season. You could make a case that he is the best player on the team right now, in terms of PER stats he is so far.

Regardless in the easy wins Sanogo might get 25 and Clingan 15, but in the toughest games Sanogo will likely be well over 30 and Clingan under 10, unless Danny is willing to use Sanogo at the 4, which IMO is his more likely pro position anyway. Having your first or second best player getting 7 minutes in a big game while Diarra and Alleyne get 12 and 14 respectively is crazy. Those two players have been weak links so far, and a relative liability in the rotation.

If you didn't have some versatility with existing players the current use might make more sense, but I think Sanogo can be a very good 4, certainly better than Karaban. The subs for the guards can be limited to two players, Joey C and Karaban. Karaban can play the 3 and 4 as the principle backup to both. When he comes in at the 3 Jackson can move to the 1 or 2, so he could substitute for any guard, and if you want a true guard you use Joey. No need to go to Diarra or Alleyne at all if you don't want to.

Karaban still gets plenty of minutes, some at the 3, and most of the backup minutes for Clingan and Sanogo who now can get 30+ minutes each in the games that count. That tight and somewhat stretched rotation of 7 allows big minutes for your two best players, and cuts out unproductive minutes from two players currently in the rotation. I'm sure Danny would probably go to an 8th or 9th player occasionally, but it could be for very limited minutes. Much more Clingan, far less Diarra and Alleyne. Even if some players are a little less effective at another position, that gap in talent is pretty hard to explain away with tunnel vision on fixed positions IMO.

 

[dennismenace]

The sad reality is that until they are played together, Clingan will get fewer minutes in the most important games than he has averaged thus far this season. You could make a case that he is the best player on the team right now, in terms of PER stats he is so far.

Regardless in the easy wins Sanogo might get 25 and Clingan 15, but in the toughest games Sanogo will likely be well over 30 and Clingan under 10, unless Danny is willing to use Sanogo at the 4, which IMO is his more likely pro position anyway. Having your first or second best player getting 7 minutes in a big game while Diarra and Alleyne get 12 and 14 respectively is crazy. Those two players have been weak links so far, and a relative liability in the rotation.

If you didn't have some versatility with existing players the current use might make more sense, but I think Sanogo can be a very good 4, certainly better than Karaban. The subs for the guards can be limited to two players, Joey C and Karaban. Karaban can play the 3 and 4 as the principle backup to both. When he comes in at the 3 Jackson can move to the 1 or 2, so he could substitute for any guard, and if you want a true guard you use Joey. No need to go to Diarra or Alleyne at all if you don't want to.

Karaban still gets plenty of minutes, some at the 3, and most of the backup minutes for Clingan and Sanogo who now can get 30+ minutes each in the games that count. That tight and somewhat stretched rotation of 7 allows big minutes for your two best players, and cuts out unproductive minutes from two players currently in the rotation. I'm sure Danny would probably go to an 8th or 9th player occasionally, but it could be for very limited minutes. Much more Clingan, far less Diarra and Alleyne. Even if some players are a little less effective at another position, that gap in talent is pretty hard to explain away with tunnel vision on fixed positions IMO.

I would be happy if he went to 25-15 as a general rule and more or less based on the opponent or if Sanogo gets in foul trouble. That assumes they are in the 5 slot.

Beyond that I think the positions are settled as far as Dan Hurley is concerned. Diarra is a much better defensive player than Joey C. and he brings speed in transition when his defense causes turnovers.
I think he is the fastest player and ignites the transition game; especially later in the game when the opponent is fatigued. They actually play well together (second team in practice). I also would not sell Alleyne short. He is a proven player on defense and offense and will provide stability down the stretch and post season.

We seem to be built in terms of minutes for more of speed/transition team but we are playing way too much half court for that line-up and without Clingan and with a weaker Karaban (against bigger or more physical teams) we play into the new strategy against us (pack it in/ stop the drives and give the threes to the less consistent shooters.