What does this staff do during the week?

[freescooter]

When a team comes out flat twice in a row with an NCAA bid hanging in the balance I'm sorry but that is on the coach.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don't think everyone is delusional. As I said, you should have read my posts last night. I am past the point of whatever. If this team wins a couple games against UCF and whoever (Cincy?) I would not be apoplectic if the committee decides to leave them out of the tourney.

I'm talking about fan expectations. About not becoming an Indiana. About upgrading our head coach, etc. That's what I call delusional.

What do you mean? Is it unreasonable to expect to miss the NCAA tournament no more than once a decade or so? That's how it is for the "blue bloods". We claim some rights to that group based on our 4 NCs, but the stability is not there.

As a Kansas Law alumn I can tell you that missing the tournament is never considered acceptable (26 years in a row). Hell, they have won the league title 12 years in a row and it is much stronger than this league where we have never won. Consistent excellence > occasional NCs.

UConn basketball needs to be a program that almost never misses the NCAA tournament and challenges for a league title 9 years out of 10, along with a fair shot at a sweet 16 or elite 8. That is my expectation. There are schools that meet that expectation. If we aren't one, we aren't in the top tier.

 

[jibsey]

Forget about blue bloods, we have bleeding to stop.

 

[tykurez]

When a team comes out flat twice in a row with an NCAA bid hanging in the balance I'm sorry but that is on the coach.

Freescooter hanging out in his favorite thread

 

[Huskyforlife]

@Lefty2one 2012 was such an odd year, you can't really blame anyone for that.

 

[KemBuckets21]

We have 4 Championships so we are much better than Kansas.

#savinggrace

 

[KemBuckets21]

To start the year, our offense was pretty impressive and our defense was lackluster (remember, we were averaging over 8- pts/gm before conference play).

As the season went on, our offense regressed and our defense improved.

Somehow, once we got back Brimah from injury, our defense got worse and our offense continued to regress.

At some point or another, you have to stop pointing fingers at the players. Although Fishy is blaming the OTHERS on the bench, I'm putting a lot on KO as well. He's regressed as a head coach.

Maybe he was never that great? As others have said, he won with Jimmy C's players a few years back. I don't want to be a pessimist, but it's hard not to.

 

[upstater]

What do you mean? Is it unreasonable to expect to miss the NCAA tournament no more than once a decade or so?

UConn missed the NCAA tournament in 2010, 2007, 2001, 1997, 1993. Prior to Ollie, UConn missed the tourney 5 times in 2 decades. So, the expectation of once every 10 years seems far flung. Especially when you consider that those 5 misses in those 20 years happened under Hall of Famer Jim Calhoun, and especially when you consider that UConn was NOT in a conference like the AAC.

Let's look at a blueblood team like Indiana, which, let's face the truth, has a lot more, A LOT MORE, going for it than UConn.

In the last 11 years, they missed the NCAA tourney 6 times.

This includes 3 years of probation because of Sampson's phone calls. However, there was no tournament ban. This makes their situation comparable to UConn's.

In 2008, Indiana hired Tom Crean.

 

[tykurez]

UConn missed the NCAA tournament in 2010, 2007, 2001, 1997, 1993. Prior to Ollie, UConn missed the tourney 5 times in 2 decades. So, the expectation of once every 10 years seems far flung. Especially when you consider that those 5 misses in those 20 years happened under Hall of Famer Jim Calhoun, and especially when you consider that UConn was NOT in a conference like the AAC.

And especially when you consider that the program wasn't coming off of:
a) a postseason ban just a few years prior
b) recruiting sanctions during that timeframe
c) limit in scholarships
d) the loss of a 26 year head coach

 

[upstater]

Maybe he was never that great? As others have said, he won with Jimmy C's players a few years back. I don't want to be a pessimist, but it's hard not to.

Why do we have to swing from one end of the spectrum to the other?

He can be great in 2013 and 2014 and regress in 2015 and 2016.

Why is that not possible?

I don't buy the Calhoun players argument. For one, Deandre Daniels hardly did anything under Calhoun. Two, Shabazz was ripped apart here his sophomore season, was deemed a problem child. Three, Boatright was in and out of the lineup his freshman year. Heck, Calhoun was in and out between his suspension and his illnesses. They were learning under George Blaney for crying out loud. And it wasn't pretty then either. Blaney was even more harshly blasted than Ollie is being blasted now.

In other words, though these players were landed by Calhoun (I don't know who recruited them), they surely all developed under Ollie in those 2 years, 2013-2014. Daniels, Napier, Boatright, and even a guy like Niels Giffey, improved under Ollie. Does anyone dispute this?

If the argument is that Calhoun landed more highly rated talent than Ollie, then that too is questionable. Is everyone completely forgetting what was said about these classes at the time?

Giffey, Napier, Boatright, were not overwhelming us with promise back then. You can find a ton of threads on this board about the horrible recruiting during Napier's sophomore season under Calhoun.

That 2014 team that won the national championship was Kevin Ollie's team. It is mind boggling that any other argument could even be made.

That being said, Ollie has lost control of this team and is not doing a fine coaching job at all. Maybe he has never experienced this kind of laziness and disfunction. Maybe these players don't have the drive of a Boatright/Napier. You could see the troubles on the very first offensive possession when they were totally discombobulated.

 

[bobbygt]

We all should focus on perspective and appreciation.

There are 89 year old Syracuse fans who have witnessed just one National Championship.
Look at other really good programs like Syracuse-Arizona, Michigan, Ohio St. and Villanova. Just one NC apiece.

We need to stop with this attitude of entitlement. Uconn fans are basically in retirement- they don't even need to watch any more basketball for the rest of their lives and they will still have it better than most sports fans.

Do you want to root for a team like UNC, with Cryin Roy and fake classes?
How about Kentucky with Calipari? Or Lousiville with Pitino? Or worse, Duke with Grayson Allen?

I'd rather take a ketchup shower than be a fan of any of those teams.

Now, we shouldn't lower expectations. We should be making the tournament almost every year.
I'm also sure that there should be some changes on the bench-it's Ollie's team now-let him choose his own guys.

It's just a little dip. Ollie is still finding his way.

 

[Kitaman]

And especially when you consider that the program wasn't coming off of:
a) a postseason ban just a few years prior
b) recruiting sanctions during that timeframe
c) limit in scholarships
d) the loss of a 26 year head coach

e) made homeless (CR)

 

[KemBuckets21]

We all should focus on perspective and appreciation.

There are 89 year old Syracuse fans who have witnessed just one National Championship.
Look at other really good programs like Syracuse-Arizona, Michigan, Ohio St. and Villanova. Just one NC apiece.

We need to stop with this attitude of entitlement. Uconn fans are basically in retirement- they don't even need to watch any more basketball for the rest of their lives and they will still have it better than most sports fans.

Do you want to root for a team like UNC, with Cryin Roy and fake classes?
How about Kentucky with Calipari? Or Lousiville with Pitino? Or worse, Duke with Grayson Allen?

I'd rather take a ketchup shower than be a fan of any of those teams.

Now, we shouldn't lower expectations. We should be making the tournament almost every year.
I'm also sure that there should be some changes on the bench-it's Ollie's team now-let him choose his own guys.

It's just a little dip. Ollie is still finding his way.

My fandom, as well as everyone else here, is resolute (yes, i'm speaking for all of you). But I think the lack of improvement, execution, and structure is what upsets most of us.

 

[UConn76]

My fandom, as well as everyone else here, is resolute (yes, i'm speaking for all of you). But I think the lack of improvement, execution, and structure is what upsets most of us.

Agreed...I'll always be a dedicated, vested fan...It just makes watching that kind of performance (or lack thereof) especially frustrating..

As with our kids, we just want them to WIN....

 

[intlzncster]

KO has robbed the university of 6 million dollars. Hasn't earned a penny since the championship run.

A National Championship is worth at least $20 million in my mind. So KO's been a bargain

 

[HuskyHawk]

Part of this is how you measure success. In my mind, one NC and three trips to the NIT is worse, much worse, than Two elite 8's and two sweet 16's over a 4 year period. Others may feel differently of course. Having an NCAA tournament with no UConn is just wrong, and there is really no excuse for it, except perhaps after that rare season when we graduate or lose 4-5 guys.

 

[tykurez]

Part of this is how you measure success. In my mind, one NC and three trips to the NIT is worse, much worse, than Two elite 8's and two sweet 16's over a 4 year period. Others may feel differently of course. Having an NCAA tournament with no UConn is just wrong, and there is really no excuse for it, except perhaps after that rare season when we graduate or lose 4-5 guys.

Guy - did you just say that having no national championship in a 4-year period is better than having one?!

Peak Boneyard.

 

[tcf15]

Guy - did you just say that having no national championship in a 4-year period is better than having one?!

Peak Boneyard.

And, in that scenario, I'm sure people would be saying "I'd rather have one national championship and 3 NITs than 2 E8s and 2 S16s".

 

[80shusky]

This is crazy. I would take the NC over any other trips to the dance that end in defeat. However, missing the tournament should be a once in a while anomaly, not a way of life. I'm hoping as KO gets his feet under him as a coach and recruiter and builds this as his program that will be the case.

 

[tykurez]

And, in that scenario, I'm sure people would be saying "I'd rather have one national championship and 3 NITs than 2 E8s and 2 S16s".

You mean [insert program] fans?

[Pitt]
[Nova]
[Kansas]
[Gonzaga]
[Etc.]

 

[Tenspro2002]

Part of this is how you measure success. In my mind, one NC and three trips to the NIT is worse, much worse, than Two elite 8's and two sweet 16's over a 4 year period. Others may feel differently of course. Having an NCAA tournament with no UConn is just wrong, and there is really no excuse for it, except perhaps after that rare season when we graduate or lose 4-5 guys.

Guy - did you just say that having no national championship in a 4-year period is better than having one?!

Peak Boneyard.

And, in that scenario, I'm sure people would be saying "I'd rather have one national championship and 3 NITs than 2 E8s and 2 S16s".

This is crazy. I would take the NC over any other trips to the dance that end in defeat. However, missing the tournament should be a once in a while anomaly, not a way of life. I'm hoping as KO gets his feet under him as a coach and recruiter and builds this as his program that will be the case.

You guys are talking past each other, and in spirit addressing two different questions:

1) Is it more satisfying as a fan to have gone NIT - Championship - NIT - NIT or S16 - E8 - S16 - E8 over a given 4 year period?
You take the championship. Period. End of discussion.

2) Which of those programs is better positioned for future success?
The consistent program is better positioned for success in the future, and is more likely to win championships in the future.


That's why the last 7 seasons have been so hard to evaluate. The championships have been incredible and you wouldn't trade these 7 seasons them for anyone else's (save maybe dook, who has also won twice). That said, the overall trajectory has not been good, and is potentially worrisome for the future of the program.

The hope is that in 10 years we're able to look back on this as a temporary blip caused by an aging/retiring coach, recruiting restrictions, APR BS, conference BS, and a new coach, and not as the harbinger of a long-term decline.

 

[upstater]

Part of this is how you measure success. In my mind, one NC and three trips to the NIT is worse, much worse, than Two elite 8's and two sweet 16's over a 4 year period. Others may feel differently of course. Having an NCAA tournament with no UConn is just wrong, and there is really no excuse for it, except perhaps after that rare season when we graduate or lose 4-5 guys.

You are in the extreme minority.

You can easily test your theories out.

For instance, these are some of the teams that most closely fulfill your criteria the last 4 years: Michigan St, Arizona, Michigan, Florida, and maybe Syracuse (2 final 8s). Wisconsin is in another category since they had two final 4s.

I don't think people remember these 5 teams. You can go to all their boards and ask if they'd trade 2 NITs (you're assuming this year is an NIT, not sure why you'd say 3 NITs, because this year would make 2, not 3) + a championship for Final 8s and Sweet 16s. I'm almost entirely certain that the vast majority would not.

I know I wouldn't.

 

[upstater]

You guys are talking past each other, and in spirit addressing two different questions:

1) Is it more satisfying as a fan to have gone NIT - Championship - NIT - NIT or S16 - E8 - S16 - E8 over a given 4 year period?
You take the championship. Period. End of discussion.

2) Which of those programs is better positioned for future success?
The consistent program is better positioned for success in the future, and is more likely to win championships in the future.

I don't buy this argument. There are too many variables. For instance, does the NIT team emphasize going through growing pains for maximal development? Does it pay younger guys no matter if they can handle it? Does it exchange development for wins? Style of play for tourney success? Emphasize defense over offense?

Some of the variables will yield more wins in any given year, while the losses may just a result in a team that can take it all the way.

Again, I don't think this is what's happening at UConn this year since we are talking about a pretty old team (Gibbs, Miller, Brimah, Calhoun, Purvis) that is not going to come together. We knew despite our concerns in 2014 that the team could go on a run. We know this one won't. They are night and day at the end of games. Still, there is something to be said about development.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Guy - did you just say that having no national championship in a 4-year period is better than having one?!

Peak Boneyard.

Yeah, I did. If we had no championships ever, or none in the last 20 years or whatever...I'd feel differently. But the tournament is fun. I get great enjoyment out of those games, an NC win isn't really that much different from an elite 8 win really. I want more tournament games, more wins. So over a given span of time I want the most games to enjoy overall. Having none is terrible.

I know many feel differently. That's fine.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You are in the extreme minority.

You can easily test your theories out.

For instance, these are some of the teams that most closely fulfill your criteria the last 4 years: Michigan St, Arizona, Michigan, Florida, and maybe Syracuse (2 final 8s). Wisconsin is in another category since they had two final 4s.

I don't think people remember these 5 teams. You can go to all their boards and ask if they'd trade 2 NITs (you're assuming this year is an NIT, not sure why you'd say 3 NITs, because this year would make 2, not 3) + a championship for Final 8s and Sweet 16s. I'm almost entirely certain that the vast majority would not.

I know I wouldn't.

I know. I used it as an example. UConn hasn't missed even yet this year and I hope we play our way in. I haven't given up. For me, the pain of being outside looking in is almost stronger than the joy of winning it all. I hate it.