Vital still deserves to start?

[BigErnMcCracken]

No, he hasn't. He's scored more because he takes a lot of bad shots. Polley shoots better from 3 and is much longer. His D is iffy. Diarra is a more efficient offensive player, stronger post defender and better rebounder. Vital rebounds and defends with energy but his decision making remains terrible and he will be totally out matched against any team with a true SF at the 3. We aren't going to face small teams like this all year...in fact Syracuse presents that exact problem.

I think, given full health, and full availability, the best starting 5 is Carlton, Diarra, Wilson, J Adams, Gilbert. With Smith, Vital and Polley and others off the bench.

Diarra? Based on what?

 

[Husky68]

Games are lost as often as won. One bad play offsets several good plays. CV is just not good enough to start on a top 25 team (and get starter minutes). His play as a junior does not display valuing each possession, he is a poor dribbler and driver but you would never know that by how often he tries to make plays when he should give up the ball. He is a spot up shooter whose piggy toes should be on the 3 point line , he thinks he is the next Jimmer.
Hurley will let him play himself to wherever his play takes him.

 

[jimva]

I think by taking him out we lose more due to weaker D, then we gain from not having him make bad O decisions.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Diarra? Based on what?

Based on being what we need. A true power forward and strong rebounder, who can body up and defend more physical players. He has a post game, can finish on the break and has developed a midrange jumper (per Hurley). He was a 4* recruit for a reason, despite his injuries and misuse by Ollie last year. If he had been given the minutes Vital has to work through mistakes, he'd be a tremendous player for us right now.

We have guards who can lead a break and hit finishers...we need finishers and rebounders. Carlton is slow, Polley can't really score well around the rim. Cobb is capable, if he sorts out everything else. Diarra and Wilson are pieces we need to make this team work.

 

[mauconnfan]

Based on being what we need. A true power forward and strong rebounder, who can body up and defend more physical players. He has a post game, can finish on the break and has developed a midrange jumper (per Hurley). He was a 4* recruit for a reason, despite his injuries and misuse by Ollie last year. If he had been given the minutes Vital has to work through mistakes, he'd be a tremendous player for us right now.

We have guards who can lead a break and hit finishers...we need finishers and rebounders. Carlton is slow, Polley can't really score well around the rim. Cobb is capable, if he sorts out everything else. Diarra and Wilson are pieces we need to make this team work.

I'm not sure "tremendous" is the right word to describe him but I hope you're right. The guy we saw had a couple of good games and showed the desire to play tough. He was lost on D almost always but had the athleticism to block a few shots after getting beat bad because of the long arms also. I'm not sure he's improved his defensive game but he still showed signs of having some impact. If he can make a couple shots away from the basket that's even better hope Dan Hurley is spot on with that. He and a healthy Yakwe will help just have to see how much.

 

[jibsey]

Based on being what we need. A true power forward and strong rebounder, who can body up and defend more physical players. He has a post game, can finish on the break and has developed a midrange jumper (per Hurley). He was a 4* recruit for a reason, despite his injuries and misuse by Ollie last year. If he had been given the minutes Vital has to work through mistakes, he'd be a tremendous player for us right now.

We have guards who can lead a break and hit finishers...we need finishers and rebounders. Carlton is slow, Polley can't really score well around the rim. Cobb is capable, if he sorts out everything else. Diarra and Wilson are pieces we need to make this team work.

We all want a 4* Diarra and Wilson and if we start seeing that we can go places because we have the guards.

 

[Stainmaster]

Based on being what we need. A true power forward and strong rebounder, who can body up and defend more physical players. He has a post game, can finish on the break and has developed a midrange jumper (per Hurley). He was a 4* recruit for a reason, despite his injuries and misuse by Ollie last year. If he had been given the minutes Vital has to work through mistakes, he'd be a tremendous player for us right now.

We have guards who can lead a break and hit finishers...we need finishers and rebounders. Carlton is slow, Polley can't really score well around the rim. Cobb is capable, if he sorts out everything else. Diarra and Wilson are pieces we need to make this team work.

Your points on Diarra are well taken, but I think this evaluation tends much closer towards "Diarra has the potential to do this" than "we can bank on Diarra doing this in a game setting."

 

[HuskyHawk]

Your points on Diarra are well taken, but I think this evaluation tends much closer towards "Diarra has the potential to do this" than "we can bank on Diarra doing this in a game setting."

There is absolutely some optimism built into this on my end. I admit that. But I also think a team playing Polley at the 4 and Vital at the 3 has a much lower ceiling than one where Diarra and Wilson can claim those roles. Not that CV and Polley won't still play quite a bit, we need all hands on deck.

 

[dennismenace]

I think he is coach-able and as mentioned many times above Hurley will get his points across. This team can really move the ball around; this year there are more times when he can let the game come to him on offense. Catch and shoot or cut for a pass; less ball handling in the half court. He is really setting an example on hustle and defense.

 

[Horatio]

2 games

 

[Stinger92860]

I agree about Gilbert. His penetration and passing is immediately felt on the floor. He is clearly the leader on our team when he's playing. His defense is sensational, and he is trying to get guys involved at this point in the season--really smart player.

Once he gets his finishing ability/confidence taking contact back, he could be the best player in the league.

Gilbert needs to shoot more. If he can develop (or has) a pull-up in the lane he will be damn near impossible to stop.

 

[husky429]

Gilbert needs to shoot more. If he can develop (or has) a pull-up in the lane he will be damn near impossible to stop.

We haven't had such a controlled looking point guard since before Kemba. Really impressive PG skills considering je hasnt played in TWO YEARS.

 

[Chief00]

Do people realize that Tarin's 20 points count whether he starts or not?

I always find this to be such a bizarre thing to focus on.

We giving up on Vital after 2 games? Come on.

I agree focus on minutes and given our style of play - 9-10 guys are going to get significant minutes.

 

[Chief00]

Chief thinks in many ways - bringing Smith off the bench works. He can be a poised PG, a defender or a scorer. You can plug him into the role that is required given what is happening in the game.

 

[imno1]

Chief thinks in many ways - bringing Smith off the bench works. He can be a poised PG, a defender or a scorer. You can plug him into the role that is required given what is happening in the game.

This makes sense. Duquesne must have had some really good guards for Tarin not to start.

 

[ASweet3781]

I agree focus on minutes and given our style of play - 9-10 guys are going to get significant minutes.

What I find intriguing is Hurley has given every scholarship player but Kwintin minutes. And not just garbage minutes. Significant minutes. He is playing 10 players and that's not including Sid and Mama. He might shorten it by a player or 2 but he's going deep and with the way they play that's gonna wear some teams down.

That's why I don't really get too caught up about Vital's struggles or whether Tarin starts.

 

[scrappy2.0]

Vital very important piece. All players need to think pass first unless youre open for shot or dribble drive.If youre not open simply move the ball--if youre open shoot it. If the lane is open take it --if its not move it.
We wouldve scored 100+ if CV played within himself and we all know he can be very very good.

 

[g_smith]

You can tell CV is not used to playing on a team with a coach that has everything under control.He has bad tendencies and is jumpy or out of control at times.

Even after two games though, I feel like I'm watching him slowly un-learn his bad tendencies and replace them with better ones. I think little at a time he learns to play to his strengths and stop with the jumpy trigger happy version he became under KO. Gotta trust Hurley to be showing him every single mistake on tape but also keeping his spirits high.

 

[SeattleHoop]

Sometimes I feel like Vital wants play Boatright/Napier with Jalen offensively. Where in this case he would be Boatright. Problem is he just doesn’t have the talent. He needs to wake up and focus primarily on his strengths. Intensity, defense and rebounding. Leave the Boatright/Napier type roles to Jalen and Alterique.

 

[Chief00]

CV can help us, it will work out.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Yes, Vital's mental mistakes can be frustrating, but with our lack of frontcourt depth, his rebounding, energy, defense and tenacity is so valuable. You can't teach what he has.

However, you can teach better decision making on offense. His first two years on this team was perhaps the worst climate for young players to learn how to play team basketball properly. Hurley's coaching will help correct his mistakes while still celebrating what he does so well innately. Remember that corner 3 on Sunday when there were three passes to the corner and the ball never touched the ground? That's something that never happened with KO and Vital will learn from smart plays like this.

Also, the new guard depth of Smith and a healthy Gilbert provides exemplars of how to correctly blend assertiveness without sacrificing the possession. Gilbert and Smith are tonics, they play it safe and limit mistakes and they can handle more of the distributing and ball handling duties while Vital is on the floor.

When does Vital fail? When he overdribbles. No need to do your best Kyrie impression when you have four other really good guards on this team, plus a developing handle from Polley and whatever Sid can bring to the table.

Bottom line, be patient with a kid as passionate as Vital. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't put it all together this year, and he continues to give us headaches, but he has a chance to be a really good two-way alpha guard.

 

[A10 fan]

This makes sense. Duquesne must have had some really good guards for Tarin not to start.

They basically rotated the two guard spots among 3 players who were pretty much equal. Smith could have easily started, but the three pretty much got equal playing time, and had similar stats. They're very deep at guard this year, which likely led to Smith deciding to grad transfer.

 

[Waquoit]

He'll get there. He's in his own head right about whether to shoot or not.

I just wish "not" was taking up more head space. It took Taliek 3 years to realize he was a lousy shooter and in the 4th year they won the title. Maybe he can help Vital here.

 

[CL82]

I just wish "not" was taking up more head space. It took Taliek 3 years to realize he was a lousy shooter and in the 4th year they won the title. Maybe he can help Vital here.

I don't think CV is lousy shooter. He just needs a little time set his feet to shoot. To me at least he looks like he's rushing. He just needs to relax and, to your point, only take the shots that are there.

I worried about his buying in under Hurley. I think that he has. With time I think he'll figure out how his offense fits.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

CV can help us, it will work out.

yes. yes he can help us, and yes it will work out.