Vital still deserves to start? | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Vital still deserves to start?

If Vital is grabbing 8-10 rebounds and scoring 6-8 points a game why would you take him out of the starting lineup?

Improve his efficiency and he’s a very valuable player. Hurley is still trying to break him in.
 
I would say that CV played well, except for the TOs, but shot poorly. CV will continue to get minutes, but Hurley will work with him on shot selection. Me thinks, Hurley absolutely loves CV.
 
Stinger92860 said:
I would say that CV played well, except for the TOs, but shot poorly. CV will continue to get minutes, but Hurley will work with him on shot selection. Me thinks, Hurley absolutely loves CV.
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As much as I’m team have CV come off the bench. This is absolutely a true statement
 
Vital is what he is. He works his tail off but isn't a very smart basketball player. But how can we sit a guy with 18 boards/2 games on a team who doesn't rebound the ball well? His D has been solid but on offense he's a guy who can stop the momentum by making bad mistakes. For now he's in the first 5, but his offensive game needs to improve to keep that spot I believe as well obviously his decision making. I am sure Hurley will sit with him and let him know so he will find a way to adjust accordingly depending upon his streaky shooting.
 
Minutes count more than the five names introduced at the start of the game. Smith perfectly fits the mold of a guy Hurley likes to bring off the bench, kind of like a Stan Robinson last year. At the same time, it’s good to have bench guys to push the starters, make them accountable and a little uncomfortable. There’s nothing worse than an ineffective player who knows there are no other options. The staff does not have blinders on with Vital. They know on what he needs to improve, and he’ll get that instruction.

I’d also be careful conflating “still working on learning and fitting in to the system” with “selfish player who thinks it’s all about him.” Vital is the first, IMO.
 
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AntG168 said:
Tarin is also thrives in his role. He thrives as a 6th man. Don’t fix what isn’t broke
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He is also the backup PG. He needs to be in when Al is out. Playing him at the start disrupts that. Should CV start? If Wilson was available, no way. Or if Diarra was available (with Polley at the 3). For now it would require Whaley or Cobb earning a start at the 4.
 
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Vital is a turnover machine and will cost us big time in a close game.
Smith should start until Wilson is cleared. Vital off the bench for 15 minutes a game.
If he's hot let him play more. When his three isn't falling he is a liability with his poor decisions.
 
You need to be careful with changing the starting lineup. Lots of psychology to be considered. I agree with those who say that PT should depend on his ability to improve his shot selection.

I think Hurley will make progress with him. Hurley was my choice to replace KO and nothing has changed. However, I can say there is one thing I would like him to change. He needs to be more careful about public statements on who our best players are. That can also cause resentment. With CV, I like that he points out his toughness and I like that he specifies that it is the shot selection that needs improving. But he should stop there. Comments about other players being better and needing to take more shots is not good. I would like him to keep those thoughts internal. It is a minor point but little things like that can have a big impact.
 
HuskyHawk said:
He is also the backup PG. He needs to be in when Al is out. Playing him at the start disrupts that. Should CV start? If Wilson was available, no way. Or if Diarra was available (with Polley at the 3). For now it would require Whaley or Cobb earning a start at the 4.
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Most of our guards can play the point, so that's not the issue.

What I'm curious about is your contention that Diarra and Polley would both be playing over Vital. Did everyone on here just start watching this team yesterday? You understand that these guys have all been playing for a while, and that Vital has been demonstrably better than players like Polley and Diarra, right?
 
It will be interesting to see what Hurley does with the lineup this week at MSG. Vital was playing out of control the entire game last night, but made up for it via defense, rebounding and energy. I think Hurley understands Vital has not been playing well on offense, but when we have a commanding lead on UMKC, why not let him get his minutes and figure it out. If Vital continues the same play offensively against Cuse, Hurley will pull him quick. I think it will send the message to Vital that he has an important role on the team via his energy and passion, but he can't force his shot.
 
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CallMeBruce said:
Most of our guards can play the point, so that's not the issue.

What I'm curious about is your contention that Diarra and Polley would both be playing over Vital. Did everyone on here just start watching this team yesterday? You understand that these guys have all been playing for a while, and that Vital has been demonstrably better than players like Polley and Diarra, right?
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No, he hasn't. He's scored more because he takes a lot of bad shots. Polley shoots better from 3 and is much longer. His D is iffy. Diarra is a more efficient offensive player, stronger post defender and better rebounder. Vital rebounds and defends with energy but his decision making remains terrible and he will be totally out matched against any team with a true SF at the 3. We aren't going to face small teams like this all year...in fact Syracuse presents that exact problem.

I think, given full health, and full availability, the best starting 5 is Carlton, Diarra, Wilson, J Adams, Gilbert. With Smith, Vital and Polley and others off the bench.
 
damn, remember when the uconn mbb coach used to change the starting lineup every game :(

i agree that cv should have a short leash, but you need his rebounding in the three guards + polley lineup
 
I don’t know where the narrative comes from that CV will be a problem if he doesn’t start. I think he’s a team player and while he may not like it would accept his role if it’s off the bench. I don’t think his shot selection has been horrible this season he just is not shooting well. His biggest weakness is his confidence to drive to the basket against 3 defenders doesn’t equate to his skill level
 
HuskyHawk said:
No, he hasn't. He's scored more because he takes a lot of bad shots. Polley shoots better from 3 and is much longer. His D is iffy. Diarra is a more efficient offensive player, stronger post defender and better rebounder. Vital rebounds and defends with energy but his decision making remains terrible and he will be totally out matched against any team with a true SF at the 3. We aren't going to face small teams like this all year...in fact Syracuse presents that exact problem.

I think, given full health, and full availability, the best starting 5 is Carlton, Diarra, Wilson, J Adams, Gilbert. With Smith, Vital and Polley and others off the bench.
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Yes, he has. By most advanced metrics, Vital was our best player last year. Meanwhile, Polley was unplayably bad last year. He shot 32% for the season. He may have improved, but ignoring all prior data in favor of only last night's game is the only way you'll come to the conclusion that Polley has been a better college player than Vital. And Diarra can't play starter's minutes until he stops fouling every 4.5 minutes (not to mention that he's already a far less productive player than Vital).
 
HooperScooper said:
Vital wasn't held accountable/coached well the last 2 years and I think that has stunted his growth as a player.
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No doubt, he started chucking up bad shots from literally minute one and hasn't stopped since. Why would that change now as a junior? It's always tough when a player has an unrealistic opinion of his own game.
 
CallMeBruce said:
Yes, he has. By most advanced metrics, Vital was our best player last year. Meanwhile, Polley was unplayably bad last year. He shot 32% for the season. He may have improved, but ignoring all prior data in favor of only last night's game is the only way you'll come to the conclusion that Polley has been a better college player than Vital. And Diarra can't play starter's minutes until he stops fouling every 4.5 minutes (not to mention that he's already a far less productive player than Vital).
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Anything that happened last year, under a team that had no idea how to play basketball, should be irrelevant. Polley shot over 40% from three. He's a better outsider shooter than Christian and it isn't close. I agree Polley's defense is a major problem. I don't want either of them starting, ideally.

Diarra should start as soon as he is able. He gets called for more fouls than he commits. I believe the staff has worked on that. He also has developed a mid-range jumper and is our best rebounder by miles. CV is a backup SG. That's what he is. B Adams is better equipped to play SF, but will obviously make freshman mistakes.
 
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I like CV and we need him. Starting him or not is an interesting issue, I think he's best suited as a high energy guy off the bench who might be more effective against tiring starters or bench players. I'm not suggeesting cutting his minutes, just,changing his role. The only problem is,that Tarin is also more effective that way.
 
Vital’s shooting form is his Achilles. He really needs a rebuild. The other issue I see with him is that he isn’t enough of a point guard to lead the break. His skill set is a little weak in terms of pushing the ball coast to coast. He doesn’t look to distribute in that situation and that leads to problems. I’d like him to pass the ball on the break or slow down enough to either get into a half court set or even make a more controlled move to the hoop for himself. He seems to be racing end to end so fast that it’s detrimental.

His defense, rebounding and toughness are what keep him on the floor.
 
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I'm not ready to quiton him but yesterday was poor ball handling, shooting, and bad decisions. To get 10 boards the ball has to fall your way a bit but he is a fighter. I bet that in crunch time down the stretch of tight games it's going to be Gilbert, Jalen and Tarin Smith.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Anything that happened last year, under a team that had no idea how to play basketball, should be irrelevant. Polley shot over 40% from three. He's a better outsider shooter than Christian and it isn't close. I agree Polley's defense is a major problem. I don't want either of them starting, ideally.

Diarra should start as soon as he is able. He gets called for more fouls than he commits. I believe the staff has worked on that. He also has developed a mid-range jumper and is our best rebounder by miles. CV is a backup SG. That's what he is. B Adams is better equipped to play SF, but will obviously make freshman mistakes.
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If/when CV loses minutes, it will be to Sid Wilson, not Diarra. Same for Polley.

Brendan Adams more than any other player on the roster seemed to struggle with the pace of the game yesterday -- UMKC was quicker and more athletic in the backcourt and it gave him problems. There will be a major adjustment period for him as the competition improves.
 
zepfan said:
This thread has sized Vital up well in my opinion. I was at the game - he is clearly the only player who hasn't figured out how it is not all about him. Love his defense, rebounds, hustle as others have stated, but his decision-making (forced action with a bad outcome) and his need to shoot like he is a knock-down shooter is a real problem. I agree with others that Hurley has to try to coach him out of this and not do anything drastic with his playing time. Although I agree he will see less time when Sid returns. Though it is likely to be game by game, because he is very streaky. Let the shots come!! Some games you'll get 10 good looks at a 3 and other games it will be only 2. He is just not the offensive player he would like to be. Six to 12 points a game while doing all the other things is how he will best help this team. I have faith Hurley will figure out how to increase the good and minimize the bad with Vital. By the way, if Smith is the shooter he was today... and Jalen continues the better shooting... 20 plus wins is certainly in sight.
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I may be completely off base but it almost feels like he is trying to showcase his NBA material except he isnt really NBA material. He really needs to work on his bball IQ and dribbling skills. He loses the ball too much and forces bad shots. He needs to concentrate on what he does well and not trying to be a Jerome Dyson slasher.
 
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UConn's backcourt will go 6 deep once Wilson is back. They are the strength of this team and easily the most talented group in the conference.

I'd like to see Hurley use more 4 guard lineups to increase the defensive pressure and offensive tempo even more, as he was known for at URI.

The talent discrepancy between the guards and forwards is unquestionable. Smith, Brendan, and Wilson should ultimately get a lot more minutes than Polley, Whaley, Cobb, Yawke, etc.

Smith is looking like AAC sixth man of the year, so Brendan moves into the lineup with Vital, Gilbert, and Jalen. Big man roulette in the middle. Think Villanova in 05-06 and 15-16.

Sure they'd be more like Nova lite, but thats good enough to win the conference regular season and tourney this year.
 
CTBasketball said:
If Vital is grabbing 8-10 rebounds and scoring 6-8 points a game why would you take him out of the starting lineup?

Improve his efficiency and he’s a very valuable player. Hurley is still trying to break him in.
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The 10 rebounds and 8 points won't matter if it's on 2-13 shooting with 5 turnovers. He simply needs to listen to coaching and cut down on the stupid. He can be really valuable if he does this.
 
superjohn said:
The 10 rebounds and 8 points won't matter if it's on 2-13 shooting with 5 turnovers. He simply needs to listen to coaching and cut down on the stupid. He can be really valuable if he does this.
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he MUST do this.

Because we both desperately NEED the great things he brings to this team (Heart, Rebounding, toughness and an occasional hot hand) and desperately DONT NEED the negatives ( the turnovers, the chucking and the occasional petulance).

He is a mystery wrapped around a riddle inside an enigma. Every player has their plus and minus they bring to the floor. Its just that the disparity in his is so extreme.

I like the way Hurley is handling it so far. There were two times yesterday where a CV bonehead play had Hurley immediately wave someone off the bench for a hook, but in both cases CV immediately redeemed himself with hustle defensive plays and Hurley would pull the sub from the scorers table and let CV play through. That works in a game like yesterday and was good coaching.
 
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