Vital still deserves to start?

[CallMeBruce]

No, he hasn't. He's scored more because he takes a lot of bad shots. Polley shoots better from 3 and is much longer. His D is iffy. Diarra is a more efficient offensive player, stronger post defender and better rebounder. Vital rebounds and defends with energy but his decision making remains terrible and he will be totally out matched against any team with a true SF at the 3. We aren't going to face small teams like this all year...in fact Syracuse presents that exact problem.

I think, given full health, and full availability, the best starting 5 is Carlton, Diarra, Wilson, J Adams, Gilbert. With Smith, Vital and Polley and others off the bench.

Yes, he has. By most advanced metrics, Vital was our best player last year. Meanwhile, Polley was unplayably bad last year. He shot 32% for the season. He may have improved, but ignoring all prior data in favor of only last night's game is the only way you'll come to the conclusion that Polley has been a better college player than Vital. And Diarra can't play starter's minutes until he stops fouling every 4.5 minutes (not to mention that he's already a far less productive player than Vital).

 

[Waquoit]

Vital wasn't held accountable/coached well the last 2 years and I think that has stunted his growth as a player.

No doubt, he started chucking up bad shots from literally minute one and hasn't stopped since. Why would that change now as a junior? It's always tough when a player has an unrealistic opinion of his own game.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Yes, he has. By most advanced metrics, Vital was our best player last year. Meanwhile, Polley was unplayably bad last year. He shot 32% for the season. He may have improved, but ignoring all prior data in favor of only last night's game is the only way you'll come to the conclusion that Polley has been a better college player than Vital. And Diarra can't play starter's minutes until he stops fouling every 4.5 minutes (not to mention that he's already a far less productive player than Vital).

Anything that happened last year, under a team that had no idea how to play basketball, should be irrelevant. Polley shot over 40% from three. He's a better outsider shooter than Christian and it isn't close. I agree Polley's defense is a major problem. I don't want either of them starting, ideally.

Diarra should start as soon as he is able. He gets called for more fouls than he commits. I believe the staff has worked on that. He also has developed a mid-range jumper and is our best rebounder by miles. CV is a backup SG. That's what he is. B Adams is better equipped to play SF, but will obviously make freshman mistakes.

 

[JSB60]

I like CV and we need him. Starting him or not is an interesting issue, I think he's best suited as a high energy guy off the bench who might be more effective against tiring starters or bench players. I'm not suggeesting cutting his minutes, just,changing his role. The only problem is,that Tarin is also more effective that way.

 

[Hoophound]

Vital’s shooting form is his Achilles. He really needs a rebuild. The other issue I see with him is that he isn’t enough of a point guard to lead the break. His skill set is a little weak in terms of pushing the ball coast to coast. He doesn’t look to distribute in that situation and that leads to problems. I’d like him to pass the ball on the break or slow down enough to either get into a half court set or even make a more controlled move to the hoop for himself. He seems to be racing end to end so fast that it’s detrimental.

His defense, rebounding and toughness are what keep him on the floor.

 

[jibsey]

I'm not ready to quiton him but yesterday was poor ball handling, shooting, and bad decisions. To get 10 boards the ball has to fall your way a bit but he is a fighter. I bet that in crunch time down the stretch of tight games it's going to be Gilbert, Jalen and Tarin Smith.

 

[Excalibur]

Anything that happened last year, under a team that had no idea how to play basketball, should be irrelevant. Polley shot over 40% from three. He's a better outsider shooter than Christian and it isn't close. I agree Polley's defense is a major problem. I don't want either of them starting, ideally.

Diarra should start as soon as he is able. He gets called for more fouls than he commits. I believe the staff has worked on that. He also has developed a mid-range jumper and is our best rebounder by miles. CV is a backup SG. That's what he is. B Adams is better equipped to play SF, but will obviously make freshman mistakes.

If/when CV loses minutes, it will be to Sid Wilson, not Diarra. Same for Polley.

Brendan Adams more than any other player on the roster seemed to struggle with the pace of the game yesterday -- UMKC was quicker and more athletic in the backcourt and it gave him problems. There will be a major adjustment period for him as the competition improves.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

This thread has sized Vital up well in my opinion. I was at the game - he is clearly the only player who hasn't figured out how it is not all about him. Love his defense, rebounds, hustle as others have stated, but his decision-making (forced action with a bad outcome) and his need to shoot like he is a knock-down shooter is a real problem. I agree with others that Hurley has to try to coach him out of this and not do anything drastic with his playing time. Although I agree he will see less time when Sid returns. Though it is likely to be game by game, because he is very streaky. Let the shots come!! Some games you'll get 10 good looks at a 3 and other games it will be only 2. He is just not the offensive player he would like to be. Six to 12 points a game while doing all the other things is how he will best help this team. I have faith Hurley will figure out how to increase the good and minimize the bad with Vital. By the way, if Smith is the shooter he was today... and Jalen continues the better shooting... 20 plus wins is certainly in sight.

I may be completely off base but it almost feels like he is trying to showcase his NBA material except he isnt really NBA material. He really needs to work on his bball IQ and dribbling skills. He loses the ball too much and forces bad shots. He needs to concentrate on what he does well and not trying to be a Jerome Dyson slasher.

 

[CL82]

i have no problem with CV starting as long as Hurley has him on a short lease in the big games that matter.

This. There is no way Hurley penalizes a guy who is hustling is butt off by taking him out of starting role. Wrong message, but minutes are earned. He'll figure it out.

 

[bendm]

UConn's backcourt will go 6 deep once Wilson is back. They are the strength of this team and easily the most talented group in the conference.

I'd like to see Hurley use more 4 guard lineups to increase the defensive pressure and offensive tempo even more, as he was known for at URI.

The talent discrepancy between the guards and forwards is unquestionable. Smith, Brendan, and Wilson should ultimately get a lot more minutes than Polley, Whaley, Cobb, Yawke, etc.

Smith is looking like AAC sixth man of the year, so Brendan moves into the lineup with Vital, Gilbert, and Jalen. Big man roulette in the middle. Think Villanova in 05-06 and 15-16.

Sure they'd be more like Nova lite, but thats good enough to win the conference regular season and tourney this year.

 

[Palatine]

Vital is our best rebounder. Polley is the 3, CV is the 4.

 

[Stainmaster]

Vital is our best rebounder. Polley is the 3, CV is the 4.

Nope.

 

[superjohn]

If Vital is grabbing 8-10 rebounds and scoring 6-8 points a game why would you take him out of the starting lineup?

Improve his efficiency and he’s a very valuable player. Hurley is still trying to break him in.

The 10 rebounds and 8 points won't matter if it's on 2-13 shooting with 5 turnovers. He simply needs to listen to coaching and cut down on the stupid. He can be really valuable if he does this.

 

[August_West]

The 10 rebounds and 8 points won't matter if it's on 2-13 shooting with 5 turnovers. He simply needs to listen to coaching and cut down on the stupid. He can be really valuable if he does this.

he MUST do this.

Because we both desperately NEED the great things he brings to this team (Heart, Rebounding, toughness and an occasional hot hand) and desperately DONT NEED the negatives ( the turnovers, the chucking and the occasional petulance).

He is a mystery wrapped around a riddle inside an enigma. Every player has their plus and minus they bring to the floor. Its just that the disparity in his is so extreme.

I like the way Hurley is handling it so far. There were two times yesterday where a CV bonehead play had Hurley immediately wave someone off the bench for a hook, but in both cases CV immediately redeemed himself with hustle defensive plays and Hurley would pull the sub from the scorers table and let CV play through. That works in a game like yesterday and was good coaching.

 

[Waquoit]

This. There is no way Hurley penalizes a guy who is hustling is butt off by taking him out of starting role. Wrong message, but minutes are earned. He'll figure it out.

Who isn't hustling so far? Maybe that's not the separator it was in recent seasons.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Who isn't hustling so far? Maybe that's not the separator it was in recent seasons.

That’s partly how I am viewing this. I don’t seem him outworkimg the other guys anymore, except at rebounding. They have upped their intensity level.

 

[RayIsTheGOAT]

I guess my take would be that Vital isn't a very good player but he's got a great motor and Hurley likes guys with motors. You can lose with worse players.

It's also important to be real in what this year is about - and that's getting the players we have better, recruiting much better talent into the program and creating culture and energy within the program. Winning is always important, but this year 'winning' is making messages stick. Vital has a terrible basketball IQ, but never saw a ball he didn't want to dive for, obviously cares, brings (sometimes too much) lots of energy, etc.

Guys like Gilbert and Adams are super talented players, but it takes them a little while to plug into games. They're not 'motor' guys. Not a criticism as much as it's just their demeanor. Having guys like Vital in the lineup around guys like that... there's a message to be read there, especially early in the season.

I think VItal will play himself out of a lot of playing time as the season goes on - but there's a reason he's playing a lot right now and one i'm fine with.

Although you are right about Jalen, I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of Gilbert. I think he is a high motor guy who is cautious and still feeling out college basketball due to circumstances generally out of his control.
Sure, Gilbert isn't on the brink of starting a fight at any given time like CV may or may not be, but that doesn't equate to motor.

 

[CL82]

Who isn't hustling so far? Maybe that's not the separator it was in recent seasons.

Not saying anyone isn't, just saying that CV bring value with rebounding, passing, energy and enthusiasm even when he's not scoring. That gives him a longer leash.

 

[Waquoit]

Not saying anyone isn't, just saying that CV bring value with rebounding, passing, energy and enthusiasm even when he's not scoring. That gives him a longer leash.

I agree with longer leash in games like this. But he needs to get more in sync against the better teams.

 

[husky429]

Although you are right about Jalen, I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of Gilbert. I think he is a high motor guy who is cautious and still feeling out college basketball due to circumstances generally out of his control.
Sure, Gilbert isn't on the brink of starting a fight at any given time like CV may or may not be, but that doesn't equate to motor.

I agree about Gilbert. His penetration and passing is immediately felt on the floor. He is clearly the leader on our team when he's playing. His defense is sensational, and he is trying to get guys involved at this point in the season--really smart player.

Once he gets his finishing ability/confidence taking contact back, he could be the best player in the league.

 

[CL82]

I agree with longer leash in games like this. But he needs to get more in sync against the better teams.

He'll get there. He's in his own head right about whether to shoot or not.

 

[JakeTheDog]

Yeah and he’s been the only consistent hardworker on those teams, and has led us in rebounding both seasons from the guard spot

CV and Rique are the only two kids who don't look like high schoolers(physique wise) compared to other teams and even the incoming transfers we accrued to the past couple seasons.

 

[amsterdamjade]

I rewatched the game and CV really stood out even more, not in a good way. He does bring great energy and he plays his ass off. At the same time though he threw up bad shot after bad shot, turned the ball over and just forced things when they were not there. I really hope he gets it together and realizes his role and his limitations. Otherwise, the leash is going to get shorter and shorter until he is stuck in the dog house.

 

[Storrs South]

He doesn’t look to distribute in that situation and that leads to problems. I’d like him to pass the ball on the break or slow down enough to either get into a half court set or even make a more controlled move to the hoop for himself. He seems to be racing end to end so fast that it’s detrimental.

This statement is partially true. Against UMKC, there was a fastbreak led by Vital where he found Tarin in in the paint for the easy basket. There was another possession where he led the fastbreak, made the correct pass to Gilbert who just missed the shot costing CV the assist, but again he made the correct play. At the same time, there were a couple occasions where he tried to do too much and lost the ball.

You're not wrong, but many on this board are exaggerating the significance of the issue. I think it's more a minor tweak than a complete overhaul for him at this point.

He also just needs to become a more consistent shooter and/or recognize when he doesn't have it in a given game since there are games where he does have it (v. BU last year comes to mind) where he is unstoppable. Again, I trust Hurley to correct this.

 

[Hoophound]

This statement is partially true. Against UMKC, there was a fastbreak led by Vital where he found Tarin in in the paint for the easy basket. There was another possession where he led the fastbreak, made the correct pass to Gilbert who just missed the shot costing CV the assist, but again he made the correct play. At the same time, there were a couple occasions where he tried to do too much and lost the ball.

You're not wrong, but many on this board are exaggerating the significance of the issue. I think it's more a minor tweak than a complete overhaul for him at this point.

He also just needs to become a more consistent shooter and/or recognize when he doesn't have it in a given game since there are games where he does have it (v. BU last year comes to mind) where he is unstoppable. Again, I trust Hurley to correct this.

I’m not saying he’s bad, but his bad plays on the break far outnumbered the good ones. It seemed each time a guard made a bad mistake, it was CV.

His shot is in fact a rebuild. Without proper form it is near impossible to be anything but a streak shooter.