Vital still deserves to start? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Vital still deserves to start?

tuvent08 said:
Love the rebounding and hustle, but he had almost half of the team's turnovers and he just can't be the guy taking the most shots on the team. His offensive game is just not good enough to be a volume scorer on a good team.
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He is a 3 and D guy on a good team.
 
He rebounds very well and plays hard. After that I have difficulty finding another part of his game that would justify starting him. He should get minutes off the bench for sure but he should be on a very short leash.
 
Kenny11 said:
Vital had a crappy game. He was out of control on offense. He’s going to be a major part of our success this year so hopefully he calms down.
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I want to like this, and I agree, but it means that we will at times this season live and die by Christian Vital. Love the kid, but I’m not sure that’s how we want our games to swing.
 
Rocktheworld said:
I want to like this, and I agree, but it means that we will at times this season live and die by Christian Vital. Love the kid, but I’m not sure that’s how we want our games to swing.
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We will definitely not live and die by CV. He will get benched if he plays out of control because we have other options but will get many chances to redeem himself throughout the season. He missed 3 put backs off of his own offensive rebounds tonight and a handful of wide open 3s he needs to take. My issues with him were the handful of out of control drives and the early contested 3 at the beginning of the game. These flaws should be able to be coached out of him and if not the bench is a good teacher. I know he is vocal and outspoken but I do not see him becoming a locker room cancer if he starts to lose minutes because he is going to be given so many opportunities to prove himself.
 
Let's keep simple stuff simple.

Vital will continue to start and play 20+ mpg until another player on the roster takes his minutes.
And with this roster and this coach there is the possibility of players demonstrating that ability and a coaching staff able to evaluate abilities and pull the string.
 
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2 comfortable wins and we already want to start tweaking the starting line up?!

Vital brings what the team needs for defensive energy and rebounding. His shot selection will improve. Hurley knows he needs him.

 
This thread has sized Vital up well in my opinion. I was at the game - he is clearly the only player who hasn't figured out how it is not all about him. Love his defense, rebounds, hustle as others have stated, but his decision-making (forced action with a bad outcome) and his need to shoot like he is a knock-down shooter is a real problem. I agree with others that Hurley has to try to coach him out of this and not do anything drastic with his playing time. Although I agree he will see less time when Sid returns. Though it is likely to be game by game, because he is very streaky. Let the shots come!! Some games you'll get 10 good looks at a 3 and other games it will be only 2. He is just not the offensive player he would like to be. Six to 12 points a game while doing all the other things is how he will best help this team. I have faith Hurley will figure out how to increase the good and minimize the bad with Vital. By the way, if Smith is the shooter he was today... and Jalen continues the better shooting... 20 plus wins is certainly in sight.
 
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zepfan said:
This thread has sized Vital up well in my opinion. I was at the game - he is clearly the only player who hasn't figured out how it is not all about him. Love his defense, rebounds, hustle as others have stated, but his decision-making (forced action with a bad outcome) and his need to shoot like he is a knock-down shooter is a real problem. I agree with others that Hurley has to try to coach him out of this and not do anything drastic with his playing time. Although I agree he will see less time when Sid returns. Though it is likely to be game by game, because he is very streaky. Let the shots come!! Some games you'll get 10 good looks at a 3 and other games it will be only 2. He is just not the offensive player he would like to be. Six to 12 points a game while doing all the other things is how he will best help this team. I have faith Hurley will figure out how to increase the good and minimize the bad with Vital. By the way, if Smith is the shooter he was today... and Jalen continues the better shooting... 20 plus wins is certainly in sight.
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Well on SNY they mentioned how CV is most enthusiastic in the huddle with quotes something like “let’s continue to play for each other.” He gets it and wants it, just needs better decision making and execution.
 
Candyman34 said:
Are we sure Vital a good three point shooter? He shot 31% last year and is like 1-12 this year. Idk I’m just asking the question.

Yes best rebounder, hardest worker and what not but is he a good shooter?
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That 31% includes mannnnny bad shots. When he's open and squared up he knocks them in. This is exactly why getting him to stop dribbling and spotting up in the corners is so important.
 
Candyman34 said:
Are we sure Vital a good three point shooter? He shot 31% last year and is like 1-12 this year. Idk I’m just asking the question.

Yes best rebounder, hardest worker and what not but is he a good shooter?
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He is a streak shooter. Definitely not a great shooter. That 31 percent is on very high volume and on very bad shot selection. I don't think its a stretch to expect 35 percent shooting throughout the year, which would valuable.
 
I’d rather bring Tarin off the bench so he can giv Gilbert or Adams a breather. As of now he’s good with the ball, he’s heady, can shoot, and plays good defense. Perfect for the first off the bench. Vital just needs to let the game come to him
 
2north said:
Well on SNY they mentioned how CV is most enthusiastic in the huddle with quotes something like “let’s continue to play for each other.” He gets it and wants it, just needs better decision making and execution.
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He took 13 shots. Jalen, Gilbert, and Smith are all better offensively, he should try to get them shots... I like him but he is not the offensive player he wants to be and must recognize this. He will have some good nights ahead of him, but he's not the type of player you want taking the most shots on your team, especially when they are often rushed or just a poor percentage shot. He's emotional and has tremendous drive which is great for this team. As I said, I think Hurley will find away to get the best out of him. I am glad that he verbalizes that he would like to play for his teammates... he just needs to learn what that looks like for him (e.g., hustle, rebounds, defense and good shots).
 
I wrote in a PM to someone, and I think it's worth saying here. The reason why Vital is so streaky shooting is his set point, imo. Obviously the gunning is mental.

Vital brings the ball waayyyy behind his head when he shoots--his elbow is practically above his eyes at the start of the shot. That means when he shoots, his elbow isn't able to lift. With no elbow lift, he doesn't get a natural or adequate arc.

When he's ON, he'll light it up, but he's not going to get much of a shooter's bounce that way.
 
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Walker11 said:
We will definitely not live and die by CV. He will get benched if he plays out of control because we have other options but will get many chances to redeem himself throughout the season. He missed 3 put backs off of his own offensive rebounds tonight and a handful of wide open 3s he needs to take. My issues with him were the handful of out of control drives and the early contested 3 at the beginning of the game. These flaws should be able to be coached out of him and if not the bench is a good teacher. I know he is vocal and outspoken but I do not see him becoming a locker room cancer if he starts to lose minutes because he is going to be given so many opportunities to prove himself.
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When I say that we will live and die by CV *at times* this year I mean that he will explode and score 20+ and keep us in some games, and/or shoot us out of games this year
 
HooperScooper said:
Vital wasn't held accountable/coached well the last 2 years and I think that has stunted his growth as a player. Bad habits are hard to break. But he does bring it every game so he'll play and hopefully learn to break those bad habits on the fly.
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This is so true. Last year, he was allowed to basically do whatever he wanted without any consequences. Hell, he even got into two fights in the handshake line/ pregame warm-ups. Hurley yanked him a couple of times tonight, One time, he sent Tarin Smith to the scorer's table after a ridiculous Vital pass on offense but then pulled him back when Vital made a tremendous defensive play. 10 rebounds in 25 minutes is impressive. Vital is pressing a bit. He won't last as a member of the starting five if it continues. Hurley strikes me as someone who plays the kids that give him the best chance to win. We shall see.
 
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Rocktheworld said:
When I say that we will live and die by CV *at times* this year I mean that he will explode and score 20+ and keep us in some games, and/or shoot us out of games this year
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I don't really think Hurley will allow it, if he can't clean up the mental part of the game and contnues to be a gunner disrutping the flow of the offense Hurley will reel him in. I think Vital will adjust.
 
I guess my take would be that Vital isn't a very good player but he's got a great motor and Hurley likes guys with motors. You can lose with worse players.

It's also important to be real in what this year is about - and that's getting the players we have better, recruiting much better talent into the program and creating culture and energy within the program. Winning is always important, but this year 'winning' is making messages stick. Vital has a terrible basketball IQ, but never saw a ball he didn't want to dive for, obviously cares, brings (sometimes too much) lots of energy, etc.

Guys like Gilbert and Adams are super talented players, but it takes them a little while to plug into games. They're not 'motor' guys. Not a criticism as much as it's just their demeanor. Having guys like Vital in the lineup around guys like that... there's a message to be read there, especially early in the season.

I think VItal will play himself out of a lot of playing time as the season goes on - but there's a reason he's playing a lot right now and one i'm fine with.
 
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i have no problem with CV starting as long as Hurley has him on a short lease in the big games that matter.
 
CV also had 5 to's and many of his bricks resulted in points for the other team. If Sid comes back firing on all cylinders, Hurley would be forced to sit CV if he is still struggling to score.
 
Vital is the type of guy that will hit 4 big 3's against Cuse the minute everyone gets down on him. As soon as you want his minutes reduced, hes nails in a big spot and he has balls of steele and we all love him. Then he will be inefficient again for 3 games and we will wonder why he warrants all the minutes hes getting.
 
I don't think he needs to come off of the bench yet. However, I think against cuse Hurley needs to have a shorter leash on him. He hustles, plays defense and rebounds. I'm ok with the occasional bonehead play because he can make up for it with hustle, but when he is shooting non stop and missing.. gotta put him on the bench quicker than what we saw last night imo.
 
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