Vital still deserves to start?

[HuskyHawk]

Who isn't hustling so far? Maybe that's not the separator it was in recent seasons.

That’s partly how I am viewing this. I don’t seem him outworkimg the other guys anymore, except at rebounding. They have upped their intensity level.

 

[RayIsTheGOAT]

I guess my take would be that Vital isn't a very good player but he's got a great motor and Hurley likes guys with motors. You can lose with worse players.

It's also important to be real in what this year is about - and that's getting the players we have better, recruiting much better talent into the program and creating culture and energy within the program. Winning is always important, but this year 'winning' is making messages stick. Vital has a terrible basketball IQ, but never saw a ball he didn't want to dive for, obviously cares, brings (sometimes too much) lots of energy, etc.

Guys like Gilbert and Adams are super talented players, but it takes them a little while to plug into games. They're not 'motor' guys. Not a criticism as much as it's just their demeanor. Having guys like Vital in the lineup around guys like that... there's a message to be read there, especially early in the season.

I think VItal will play himself out of a lot of playing time as the season goes on - but there's a reason he's playing a lot right now and one i'm fine with.

Although you are right about Jalen, I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of Gilbert. I think he is a high motor guy who is cautious and still feeling out college basketball due to circumstances generally out of his control.
Sure, Gilbert isn't on the brink of starting a fight at any given time like CV may or may not be, but that doesn't equate to motor.

 

[CL82]

Who isn't hustling so far? Maybe that's not the separator it was in recent seasons.

Not saying anyone isn't, just saying that CV bring value with rebounding, passing, energy and enthusiasm even when he's not scoring. That gives him a longer leash.

 

[Waquoit]

Not saying anyone isn't, just saying that CV bring value with rebounding, passing, energy and enthusiasm even when he's not scoring. That gives him a longer leash.

I agree with longer leash in games like this. But he needs to get more in sync against the better teams.

 

[husky429]

Although you are right about Jalen, I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of Gilbert. I think he is a high motor guy who is cautious and still feeling out college basketball due to circumstances generally out of his control.
Sure, Gilbert isn't on the brink of starting a fight at any given time like CV may or may not be, but that doesn't equate to motor.

I agree about Gilbert. His penetration and passing is immediately felt on the floor. He is clearly the leader on our team when he's playing. His defense is sensational, and he is trying to get guys involved at this point in the season--really smart player.

Once he gets his finishing ability/confidence taking contact back, he could be the best player in the league.

 

[CL82]

I agree with longer leash in games like this. But he needs to get more in sync against the better teams.

He'll get there. He's in his own head right about whether to shoot or not.

 

[JakeTheDog]

Yeah and he’s been the only consistent hardworker on those teams, and has led us in rebounding both seasons from the guard spot

CV and Rique are the only two kids who don't look like high schoolers(physique wise) compared to other teams and even the incoming transfers we accrued to the past couple seasons.

 

[amsterdamjade]

I rewatched the game and CV really stood out even more, not in a good way. He does bring great energy and he plays his ass off. At the same time though he threw up bad shot after bad shot, turned the ball over and just forced things when they were not there. I really hope he gets it together and realizes his role and his limitations. Otherwise, the leash is going to get shorter and shorter until he is stuck in the dog house.

 

[Storrs South]

He doesn’t look to distribute in that situation and that leads to problems. I’d like him to pass the ball on the break or slow down enough to either get into a half court set or even make a more controlled move to the hoop for himself. He seems to be racing end to end so fast that it’s detrimental.

This statement is partially true. Against UMKC, there was a fastbreak led by Vital where he found Tarin in in the paint for the easy basket. There was another possession where he led the fastbreak, made the correct pass to Gilbert who just missed the shot costing CV the assist, but again he made the correct play. At the same time, there were a couple occasions where he tried to do too much and lost the ball.

You're not wrong, but many on this board are exaggerating the significance of the issue. I think it's more a minor tweak than a complete overhaul for him at this point.

He also just needs to become a more consistent shooter and/or recognize when he doesn't have it in a given game since there are games where he does have it (v. BU last year comes to mind) where he is unstoppable. Again, I trust Hurley to correct this.

 

[Hoophound]

This statement is partially true. Against UMKC, there was a fastbreak led by Vital where he found Tarin in in the paint for the easy basket. There was another possession where he led the fastbreak, made the correct pass to Gilbert who just missed the shot costing CV the assist, but again he made the correct play. At the same time, there were a couple occasions where he tried to do too much and lost the ball.

You're not wrong, but many on this board are exaggerating the significance of the issue. I think it's more a minor tweak than a complete overhaul for him at this point.

He also just needs to become a more consistent shooter and/or recognize when he doesn't have it in a given game since there are games where he does have it (v. BU last year comes to mind) where he is unstoppable. Again, I trust Hurley to correct this.

I’m not saying he’s bad, but his bad plays on the break far outnumbered the good ones. It seemed each time a guard made a bad mistake, it was CV.

His shot is in fact a rebuild. Without proper form it is near impossible to be anything but a streak shooter.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

No, he hasn't. He's scored more because he takes a lot of bad shots. Polley shoots better from 3 and is much longer. His D is iffy. Diarra is a more efficient offensive player, stronger post defender and better rebounder. Vital rebounds and defends with energy but his decision making remains terrible and he will be totally out matched against any team with a true SF at the 3. We aren't going to face small teams like this all year...in fact Syracuse presents that exact problem.

I think, given full health, and full availability, the best starting 5 is Carlton, Diarra, Wilson, J Adams, Gilbert. With Smith, Vital and Polley and others off the bench.

Diarra? Based on what?

 

[Husky68]

Games are lost as often as won. One bad play offsets several good plays. CV is just not good enough to start on a top 25 team (and get starter minutes). His play as a junior does not display valuing each possession, he is a poor dribbler and driver but you would never know that by how often he tries to make plays when he should give up the ball. He is a spot up shooter whose piggy toes should be on the 3 point line , he thinks he is the next Jimmer.
Hurley will let him play himself to wherever his play takes him.

 

[jimva]

I think by taking him out we lose more due to weaker D, then we gain from not having him make bad O decisions.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Diarra? Based on what?

Based on being what we need. A true power forward and strong rebounder, who can body up and defend more physical players. He has a post game, can finish on the break and has developed a midrange jumper (per Hurley). He was a 4* recruit for a reason, despite his injuries and misuse by Ollie last year. If he had been given the minutes Vital has to work through mistakes, he'd be a tremendous player for us right now.

We have guards who can lead a break and hit finishers...we need finishers and rebounders. Carlton is slow, Polley can't really score well around the rim. Cobb is capable, if he sorts out everything else. Diarra and Wilson are pieces we need to make this team work.

 

[mauconnfan]

Based on being what we need. A true power forward and strong rebounder, who can body up and defend more physical players. He has a post game, can finish on the break and has developed a midrange jumper (per Hurley). He was a 4* recruit for a reason, despite his injuries and misuse by Ollie last year. If he had been given the minutes Vital has to work through mistakes, he'd be a tremendous player for us right now.

We have guards who can lead a break and hit finishers...we need finishers and rebounders. Carlton is slow, Polley can't really score well around the rim. Cobb is capable, if he sorts out everything else. Diarra and Wilson are pieces we need to make this team work.

I'm not sure "tremendous" is the right word to describe him but I hope you're right. The guy we saw had a couple of good games and showed the desire to play tough. He was lost on D almost always but had the athleticism to block a few shots after getting beat bad because of the long arms also. I'm not sure he's improved his defensive game but he still showed signs of having some impact. If he can make a couple shots away from the basket that's even better hope Dan Hurley is spot on with that. He and a healthy Yakwe will help just have to see how much.

 

[jibsey]

Based on being what we need. A true power forward and strong rebounder, who can body up and defend more physical players. He has a post game, can finish on the break and has developed a midrange jumper (per Hurley). He was a 4* recruit for a reason, despite his injuries and misuse by Ollie last year. If he had been given the minutes Vital has to work through mistakes, he'd be a tremendous player for us right now.

We have guards who can lead a break and hit finishers...we need finishers and rebounders. Carlton is slow, Polley can't really score well around the rim. Cobb is capable, if he sorts out everything else. Diarra and Wilson are pieces we need to make this team work.

We all want a 4* Diarra and Wilson and if we start seeing that we can go places because we have the guards.

 

[Stainmaster]

Based on being what we need. A true power forward and strong rebounder, who can body up and defend more physical players. He has a post game, can finish on the break and has developed a midrange jumper (per Hurley). He was a 4* recruit for a reason, despite his injuries and misuse by Ollie last year. If he had been given the minutes Vital has to work through mistakes, he'd be a tremendous player for us right now.

We have guards who can lead a break and hit finishers...we need finishers and rebounders. Carlton is slow, Polley can't really score well around the rim. Cobb is capable, if he sorts out everything else. Diarra and Wilson are pieces we need to make this team work.

Your points on Diarra are well taken, but I think this evaluation tends much closer towards "Diarra has the potential to do this" than "we can bank on Diarra doing this in a game setting."

 

[HuskyHawk]

Your points on Diarra are well taken, but I think this evaluation tends much closer towards "Diarra has the potential to do this" than "we can bank on Diarra doing this in a game setting."

There is absolutely some optimism built into this on my end. I admit that. But I also think a team playing Polley at the 4 and Vital at the 3 has a much lower ceiling than one where Diarra and Wilson can claim those roles. Not that CV and Polley won't still play quite a bit, we need all hands on deck.

 

[dennismenace]

I think he is coach-able and as mentioned many times above Hurley will get his points across. This team can really move the ball around; this year there are more times when he can let the game come to him on offense. Catch and shoot or cut for a pass; less ball handling in the half court. He is really setting an example on hustle and defense.

 

[Horatio]

2 games

 

[Stinger92860]

I agree about Gilbert. His penetration and passing is immediately felt on the floor. He is clearly the leader on our team when he's playing. His defense is sensational, and he is trying to get guys involved at this point in the season--really smart player.

Once he gets his finishing ability/confidence taking contact back, he could be the best player in the league.

Gilbert needs to shoot more. If he can develop (or has) a pull-up in the lane he will be damn near impossible to stop.

 

[husky429]

Gilbert needs to shoot more. If he can develop (or has) a pull-up in the lane he will be damn near impossible to stop.

We haven't had such a controlled looking point guard since before Kemba. Really impressive PG skills considering je hasnt played in TWO YEARS.

 

[Chief00]

Do people realize that Tarin's 20 points count whether he starts or not?

I always find this to be such a bizarre thing to focus on.

We giving up on Vital after 2 games? Come on.

I agree focus on minutes and given our style of play - 9-10 guys are going to get significant minutes.

 

[Chief00]

Chief thinks in many ways - bringing Smith off the bench works. He can be a poised PG, a defender or a scorer. You can plug him into the role that is required given what is happening in the game.

 

[imno1]

Chief thinks in many ways - bringing Smith off the bench works. He can be a poised PG, a defender or a scorer. You can plug him into the role that is required given what is happening in the game.

This makes sense. Duquesne must have had some really good guards for Tarin not to start.

 

[ASweet3781]

I agree focus on minutes and given our style of play - 9-10 guys are going to get significant minutes.

What I find intriguing is Hurley has given every scholarship player but Kwintin minutes. And not just garbage minutes. Significant minutes. He is playing 10 players and that's not including Sid and Mama. He might shorten it by a player or 2 but he's going deep and with the way they play that's gonna wear some teams down.

That's why I don't really get too caught up about Vital's struggles or whether Tarin starts.

 

[scrappy2.0]

Vital very important piece. All players need to think pass first unless youre open for shot or dribble drive.If youre not open simply move the ball--if youre open shoot it. If the lane is open take it --if its not move it.
We wouldve scored 100+ if CV played within himself and we all know he can be very very good.

 

[g_smith]

You can tell CV is not used to playing on a team with a coach that has everything under control.He has bad tendencies and is jumpy or out of control at times.

Even after two games though, I feel like I'm watching him slowly un-learn his bad tendencies and replace them with better ones. I think little at a time he learns to play to his strengths and stop with the jumpy trigger happy version he became under KO. Gotta trust Hurley to be showing him every single mistake on tape but also keeping his spirits high.

 

[SeattleHoop]

Sometimes I feel like Vital wants play Boatright/Napier with Jalen offensively. Where in this case he would be Boatright. Problem is he just doesn’t have the talent. He needs to wake up and focus primarily on his strengths. Intensity, defense and rebounding. Leave the Boatright/Napier type roles to Jalen and Alterique.

 

[Chief00]

CV can help us, it will work out.