VaTech 67, TN 63, final

[donalddoowop]

How were you all able to watch the game? On what was it shown?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Holly gets something right! "You know what, quite frankly we don't deserve to be ranked," Warlick said. "We don't deserve to be ranked."

Lady Vols fall again to Virginia Tech

 

[Fairfield Fan]

The recruits have already signed their LOIs, so it is unlikely - if they watch the film of these games, maybe they will join the chorus calling for a new coaching staff!

That was what I was wondering. HW comes up with her first decent, indeed good, recruiting year. Then she goes out and chalks up two really ugly losses. What must those recruits be thinking? They could have been told that last year was an exception, that there were injuries, new players that didn't mesh. But just wait for this year, and you'll see the Old Tennessee again. It'll be just like the Old Days.

But they have to now see that HW is a disaster of a coach. They have to wonder what will happen to them, if DD continues to be mired in mediocrity.

Can those recruits back out?

And when exactly (not "if") will Tennessee pull the plug on HW? We debated this last year. But can there still be doubt that she needs to go?

 

[bballnut90]

Didn't get to see the game, but based on results so far I don't think I'm off base saying that Tennessee might not be a tournament team this season.

Holly needs to go. Her teams at Tennessee have sorely underperformed and players do not develop under her tutelage. This year, they are struggling with lack of depth, but through 5 games they have beaten two chippies, won a close game against a mediocre James Madison team, lost by double digits to a mediocre Penn State team, and lost on the road to Virginia Tech, who as someone pointed out, is predicted to finish 12th in the ACC.

Tennessee doesn't have bad players--Russell actually looks really solid this year, DeShields is capable of being a huge performer, Nared looks improved, but the team offense has no flow, they are careless with turnovers, and nobody shoots the ball consistently. It's all coaching, and it has been the issue for the last 3 seasons. 2012-13 I thought Holly actually did a good job considering circumstances--same with 2011-12. In previous seasons, the team was under Pat and they had very good teams in 2010 and 2011 after their rough 2009 season.

Looking ahead to the rest of this season, Tennessee has a couple of chippy games against Tennessee St, Appalachian St, Troy, and UNC-W which should be gimme wins. During that stretch they also have to play Baylor at home (likely a loss), Texas on the road (loss), and Stanford at home (likely loss.)

If they go 4-3 during this stretch, Tennessee will be 7-5 entering conference play. They'll face ND at home later in the season which is pretty much a guaranteed loss, putting Tennessee at 7-6 for their OOC schedule.

In conference play, Tennessee is predicted to finish 3rd, but looking at their schedule, this is how I see it broken down:

Games they'll likely lose:
-Mississippi State home
-Mississippi State away
-South Carolina away
-Florida away
-Kentucky home


Games that are tossups:
-Florida Home
-Vanderbilt Away
-Auburn Home
-Missouri Home

Games that should be wins:
-Ole Miss away
-LSU home
-Vandy home
-Georgia away
-Texas A&M home
-Alabama away
-Arkansas home

5 games they'll lose, 4 tossups, 7 wins. I think their record will be somewhere between 7-9 to 11-5....probably 9-7 or 8-8 if we take an average. Let's say they go 9-7. They'll likely win a first round game in the SEC tournament and lose in the quarterfinals or semifinals. Say they go 1-1 there.

Their total record is 17-14 entering the NCAA tournament. Is that going to be good enough to get it? Who knows. Obviously, this is very premature and a lot can change (for good or bad), but early on all signs are pointing toward another disastrous season in Knoxville. I don't see this pattern changing a whole lot until they get rid of Holly and bring in a coach who is capable of leading a team and running an offense.

 

[Gus Mahler]

I saw parts of this game. I was quite impressed by how easily Chanette "Moses" Hicks parted the Orange Sea with her drives to the basket. Actually, the Orange Sea might have parted on its own.

I was also impressed that VT flat out played harder. Holly and I are on the same page: UT shouldn't be ranked.

By the way, DD committed 10 turnovers. Ten.

 

[Plebe]

How were you all able to watch the game? On what was it shown?

It was shown on the ACC Network, and I believe the replay should be available on ESPN3.

 

[Plebe]

Didn't get to see the game, but based on results so far I don't think I'm off base saying that Tennessee might not be a tournament team this season.

Holly needs to go. Her teams at Tennessee have sorely underperformed and players do not develop under her tutelage. This year, they are struggling with lack of depth, but through 5 games they have beaten two chippies, won a close game against a mediocre James Madison team, lost by double digits to a mediocre Penn State team, and lost on the road to Virginia Tech, who as someone pointed out, is predicted to finish 12th in the ACC.

Tennessee doesn't have bad players--Russell actually looks really solid this year, DeShields is capable of being a huge performer, Nared looks improved, but the team offense has no flow, they are careless with turnovers, and nobody shoots the ball consistently. It's all coaching, and it has been the issue for the last 3 seasons. 2012-13 I thought Holly actually did a good job considering circumstances--same with 2011-12. In previous seasons, the team was under Pat and they had very good teams in 2010 and 2011 after their rough 2009 season.

Looking ahead to the rest of this season, Tennessee has a couple of chippy games against Tennessee St, Appalachian St, Troy, and UNC-W which should be gimme wins. During that stretch they also have to play Baylor at home (likely a loss), Texas on the road (loss), and Stanford at home (likely loss.)

If they go 4-3 during this stretch, Tennessee will be 7-5 entering conference play. They'll face ND at home later in the season which is pretty much a guaranteed loss, putting Tennessee at 7-6 for their OOC schedule.

In conference play, Tennessee is predicted to finish 3rd, but looking at their schedule, this is how I see it broken down:

Games they'll likely lose:
-Mississippi State home
-Mississippi State away
-South Carolina away
-Florida away
-Kentucky home


Games that are tossups:
-Florida Home
-Vanderbilt Away
-Auburn Home
-Missouri Home

Games that should be wins:
-Ole Miss away
-LSU home
-Vandy home
-Georgia away
-Texas A&M home
-Alabama away
-Arkansas home

5 games they'll lose, 4 tossups, 7 wins. I think their record will be somewhere between 7-9 to 11-5....probably 9-7 or 8-8 if we take an average. Let's say they go 9-7. They'll likely win a first round game in the SEC tournament and lose in the quarterfinals or semifinals. Say they go 1-1 there.

Their total record is 17-14 entering the NCAA tournament. Is that going to be good enough to get it? Who knows. Obviously, this is very premature and a lot can change (for good or bad), but early on all signs are pointing toward another disastrous season in Knoxville. I don't see this pattern changing a whole lot until they get rid of Holly and bring in a coach who is capable of leading a team and running an offense.

Of course it's very premature to think about tournament selection, but it will all come down to whether Tennessee can score some quality wins (defined here as wins over teams worthy of an at-large bid) to offset the bad losses. The committee rewards teams for good wins more than it penalizes for bad losses, and will sooner take a "bipolar" team like TN over a team (like NC State last year) that has almost no bad losses but no quality wins. That was how Tennessee got a #7 seed last year: the wins over the likes of Oregon State, Syracuse and Missouri more than made up for the losses to the likes of Virginia Tech, LSU and Alabama. So as long as Tennessee can score at least a couple wins over the likes of Stanford, Texas, Kentucky, Mississippi State, and Florida (certainly possible), then they can withstand several of these bad losses.

 

[msf22b]

It's hard to imagine that any of next season's recruits have based their choice on their faith in the excellence of the coaching they will receive.

Why they made the choice they have, could be the subject of a fascinating study.

My guess is that a significant percentage of this generation's young woman, really don't believe that they need good coaching, having received precious little of it throughout their HS and AAU careers (goes for DD as well).

They think that their natural talent will just carry their team to triumph, like it always has.
Oh boy, are they about to be schooled.

If the class stays intact for a season and the dysfunction continues, that is the end.
The fat lady is warming up.

Of course, Holly might quit or be fired and Becky Hammon retained.
Then everyone should watch out.
The best rivalry in sports would resume.

 

[Gus Mahler]

After reading the reports on UT's recruiting class for next year, I can't help wondering if last year's whiff was a function of the (real or perceived) chemistry problems brought about by one of the current UT players. Then, for next year, that same player might be presumed to be gone, which would make the program a much more attractive place to be.

Is this cynicism? Or could there be an element of truth to this? What say you?

 

[Bestiarius]

Coach Kenny Brooks post game comments:

hokiesports.com :: Videos :: Coach

 

[chuck.r]

I suspect Warlick will likely be retained after this season on the benefit of this recent successful and highly touted recruiting class - she'll be given the opportunity to coach this group, I would think, for at least a couple of years (unless something drastic occurs, like a couple of early transfers, a la UNC 2013). If she can get them eventually to that elusive 1st Final Four, then I would think she is in a more secure position.

She will also be given the benefit of the doubt due to her strong post-season record - her teams have gone to the semifinals or deeper of the SEC tournament every year of her tenure (winning it in 2014); and she has made the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 every year of the NCAA's. A lot of coaches would feel good with that track record. But Holly follows a legend, in a program that has known elite status for decades, though not of late. Tough position with little or no wiggle.

I do agree her teams do not pass the eye test of disciplined practiced offense. I sometimes wonder if she and her staff have yet to understand what motivates the current generation of student-athletes. That they are operating out of a dated model that expected more maturity and focus.

 

[msf22b]

Coach Kenny Brooks post game comments:

hokiesports.com :: Videos :: Coach

"I just want to focus on this team getting better...And we're not very good right now."
HW...question about rankings.

 

[Icebear]

Judging by this game alone, I would rank Tennessee somewhere between 50-60 in the country. they have no idea on how to play team basketball.
It can't all be the Holly effect. Their players just don't have a high basketball IQ collectively.
VT up 7 in the 3rd Q.

They haven't for years.

 

[Tonyc]

You know what. Ive been saying it since the 37 page report. The 37 page report destroyed Tenn and its showing now. For those of you who were around during that time. I said this would be Tenns downfall. It has been proven. Geno got all the recruits and Tenn had to grasp for what was left choosing a bunch of wings and post players when Geno got Maya Caroline and EDD. At that time Tenn thought they had a lock on all 3 . They didnt. So they used all their schollies to recruit a bunch of wing players and that was their downfall, as they could not recruit for a couple of years thus allowing everybody else compete with UConn for top players. Uconn won that battle which started the dynasty and took it to a whole new level. Back in the day it was UConn and Tenn getting all the top recruits and every body else got what was left. Now Tenn fans are living on hope and dreams of the past. The program can not get back to the top even though the pollsters continue to rank them in the top 20 The talent is there but they cant out talent opponents anymore.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

After reading the reports on UT's recruiting class for next year, I can't help wondering if last year's whiff was a function of the (real or perceived) chemistry problems brought about by one of the current UT players. Then, for next year, that same player might be presumed to be gone, which would make the program a much more attractive place to be.

Is this cynicism? Or could there be an element of truth to this? What say you?

My vote is yea, there is truth to that. Problems may dissolve with graduation AND early departures.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

You know what. Ive been saying it since the 37 page report. The 37 page report destroyed Tenn and its showing now. For those of you who were around during that time. I said this would be Tenns downfall. It has been proven. Geno got all the recruits and Tenn had to grasp for what was left choosing a bunch of wings and post players when Geno got Maya Caroline and EDD. At that time Tenn thought they had a lock on all 3 . They didnt. So they used all their schollies to recruit a bunch of wing players and that was their downfall, as they could not recruit for a couple of years thus allowing everybody else compete with UConn for top players. Uconn won that battle which started the dynasty and took it to a whole new level. Back in the day it was UConn and Tenn getting all the top recruits and every body else got what was left. Now Tenn fans are living on hope and dreams of the past. The program can not get back to the top even though the pollsters continue to rank them in the top 20 The talent is there but they cant out talent opponents anymore.

To back up your contention, look at how UConn's recruiting took off from the year before (posted elsewhere). We got Tina Charles in 2006, then Maya in 2007 (the year of the 37 page report). Those were the first trickles of a stream that became a mighty recruiting river. This has been, if I'm not mistaken, Coach Geno's greatest inflow of talent in his entire 31-year career:

The next year Tiffany Hayes. The next year, Kelly Faris.

Then:

Stephanie Dolson and Bria Hartley- fall 2010
Kaleena Mosquera-Lewis and Kia Stokes- 2011
Breanna Stewart, Moriah Jefferson, and Morgan Tuck- 2012
Saniya Chong (named by one publication player of the year)- 2013
Kia Nurse and Gabby Williams- 2014
Napheesa Collier and Katie Lou Samuelson- 2015
Crystal Dangerfield- 2016
Megan Walker- 2017
Charli Collier- 2018

And Tennessee went down the tubes during that time. And while Connecticut was beginning their biggest recruiting push, Notre Dame was snarfing up the ones that UConn didn't get.

 

[reno tony]

You scooped me. I have never, I don't think, seen back-to-back lane violations.

I have. Well, does bowling count?

 

[Mdoggie]

Tennessee needs to clean house. Starting at the top. Young fresh and exciting coaching is needed. A coach that teaches team first and checks players attitudes at the door. (Player home doors). I wonder if Kara Lawson is interested in the job?

 

[Carnac]

Does anyone remember how dismally disappointed we all were when DD decided not to be a Husky? Wish I could resurrect the BY posts from that dismal day.

Not necessary Zorro, we get your drift. Please, let sleeping dogs lay.

 

[Carnac]

Nevertheless, we are DOOOOOOOOOMMED!

Zorro, you'll never be confused as a harbinger of good news for the Huskies.

 

[Carnac]

It won't happen, but can you imagine the comments that would be forthcoming IF UConn lost to unranked Chattanooga like Tennessee did to Va Tech?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

This strike anyone else as funny (as in funny peculiar)?



Passive? That's going to end real soon??

 

[donalddoowop]

It was shown on the ACC Network, and I believe the replay should be available on ESPN3.

Thank you.

 

[bballnut90]

To back up your contention, look at how UConn's recruiting took off from the year before (posted elsewhere). We got Tina Charles in 2006, then Maya in 2007 (the year of the 37 page report). Those were the first trickles of a stream that became a mighty recruiting river. This has been, if I'm not mistaken, Coach Geno's greatest inflow of talent in his entire 31-year career:

The next year Tiffany Hayes. The next year, Kelly Faris.

Then:

Stephanie Dolson and Bria Hartley- fall 2010
Kaleena Mosquera-Lewis and Kia Stokes- 2011
Breanna Stewart, Moriah Jefferson, and Morgan Tuck- 2012
Saniya Chong (named by one publication player of the year)- 2013
Kia Nurse and Gabby Williams- 2014
Napheesa Collier and Katie Lou Samuelson- 2015
Crystal Dangerfield- 2016
Megan Walker- 2017
Charli Collier- 2018

And Tennessee went down the tubes during that time. And while Connecticut was beginning their biggest recruiting push, Notre Dame was snarfing up the ones that UConn didn't get.

Tennessee's recruiting didn't go down the tubes after the Moore situation. Since 2007, look at the top 10 kids they've landed:
2007-Bjorklund and Baugh both top 5. Cain #12.
2008-Johnson, Gray and Stricklen top 10. Manning/Brewer top 20.
2009-Spani top 15 recruit
2010-Simmons in the 20s
2011-Massengale and Burdick top 5
2012-Graves top 5
2013-Russell and DeShields top 3, Tucker committed and was top 10
2014-Nared was top 10
2015-Cooper was ranked top 10 by most publications, #12 by Hoopgurlz IIRC
2016-zilch
2017-Hayes, Westbrook both are top 10. Davis is #12.

The problem hasn't been recruiting. Developing the recruits has been another situation, and the more time goes on, the more it looks like the blame is squarely on Holly.

The 2007 class was under Pat the whole time. Baugh and Cain were riddled with injuries--although it's worth noting that Cain looked quite good when healthy in 2010. Bjorklund was badly overrated coming out of HS.

2008 class-Stricklen/Johnson both had very good careers at UT and went top 3 or 4 in the 2012 draft. Gray had a horrible illness and had to transfer out because Tennessee wouldn't let her play with her condition. Brewer looked good for a season, Manning was a decent role player.

The 2007 and 2008 kids had some good seasons at Tennessee and the 2007 kids (Baugh/Cain) likely would've developed into better players if they didn't have so many injury problems. Tennessee had great teams in 2010 and 2011 but lost to Griner/Diggins in the tournament.

Holly essentially took the reigns of the program over in 2012. This is where player development and win/loss record has really halted. Burdick, Massengale, Graves, DeShields and Russell were all top 5 kids. None have lived up to it. Simmons and Graves were oozing with potential as freshmen and graduated with no skill development. Both were arguably better players as freshmen.

The product on the court has consistently declined. In the 5 years prior to 2012, Tennessee had records of:
34-3, 32-3, 22-11, 36-2, 34-3.

When Holly took the reigns in 2011-12, her teams have produced records of:
27-9, 27-8, 29-6, 30-6, 22-14. You'd have to go back to the 80s to find two consecutive years when Tennessee had 6 or more losses. Holly's had 5 straight.

Holly is the reason why this program is steadily declining. She has proven that she can recruit, but she can't put together a good product on the court. Put her roster with most top 25 coaches in America and they'll have Tennessee a staple in the top 5.

She has proven that she can get her teams to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8, but aside from the 2 good wins last year, Tennessee hasn't won an NCAA tournament game against a top 4 seeded team since 2011. Tennessee got lucky matchups in the Sweet 16 in 2012, 2013 and 2015 facing teams seeded 6th or lower. They were blown out by Maryland in 2014, although Maryland was very underrated.

When she can lead Tennessee to an upset of a team like Baylor or Notre Dame, then I'll have some hope for the program. Otherwise, it'll be a consistent descent as long as she's at the helm, even with a top class coming in yet again.

 

[Crossover]

This strike anyone else as funny (as in funny peculiar)?



Passive? That's going to end real soon??

Near the end , DD says that the reason she had some many turnovers is that she was trying too hard to pass to her teammates. She said that she does not turn over the ball when she focuses on scoring, that she will not not make the same mistake (i.e. passing too much) again, and that her team needs her to score. Funny peculiar indeed.