Icebear
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Except that is nothing like how it is done.
USA Basketball officials explain leaving Parker off Olympic team
- Thread starter EricLA
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easttexastrash
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That's what I told ALL of my exes.
Icebear
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But it is not an ultimatum unless you think Geno is the only person who can coach the team. Gene has said in the past that Diana and Sue are like having an coach on the floor, an extension of himself in directing play. Having them on the team lowers the demand on him in managing the team. This is no small thing when you have the limited time for practice that the USA team has.
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had not seen that...thanks for the info
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everything i saw said it was from USA basketball...not Candace Parker said....apologies
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i understand your thoughts but it appears that the selection committee thinks that there are 12 players in the US better than her...crazy...i think she should have been selected...hope the reason, the real reason she was not selected comes out some day...
HuskyNan
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I've seen a couple of people mention that Parker leaked the info but there is no indication of that whatsoever. The AP posted the story that she hadn't been selected. Parker's expression of disappointment, which was very classy, came out the next day.
HuskyNan
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Specifically, as in "Let's take Stewart and leave Parker off the roster"? How do you know this is a fact?
UConnCat
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The news was first reported by ESPN's Los Angeles reporter. Given the location of the reporter, I mentioned that the source was likely Parker herself or someone she told, eg, someone connected to the Sparks.
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i don't think there is anyway CP was left off for Stewart...Stewie is simply the youngest player on the squad...certainly not the least talented in my opinion...just a thought
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IMO it's most likely that the two roster choices (Stewart on the team, Parker not on the team) were independent of each other. If the goal from On High was simply to have Stewie on the team, they could have removed a number of other players with far less of a crapstorm from the media and fans. It would have changed the overall balance of the roster, sure, but probably not catastrophically.
The idea of picking a rookie is very familiar territory for USA basketball. But if one of the leading young guards had not gotten injured and had impressed at the last camp, who knows? Maybe there'd have been no Stewie, with one of those young guards there instead...and Parker still gone. With the information we have now, we can only speculate.
The idea of picking a rookie is very familiar territory for USA basketball. But if one of the leading young guards had not gotten injured and had impressed at the last camp, who knows? Maybe there'd have been no Stewie, with one of those young guards there instead...and Parker still gone. With the information we have now, we can only speculate.
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Are you sure?
UcMiami
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I think you are remembering the gathering out West either last spring or maybe longer ago when she was injured and couldn't participate. I think Augustus or Whalen was also on the sidelines and maybe another player as well - they were all present and active during the practice, just not on the court.
I believe Candace has always made camps and competitions when she has been healthy - I am sure she missed time before/after her pregnancy, but if she has been healthy she has been participating. So I think that story line has no legs.
The only person who I can remember 'begging off' a USA team when generally healthy was Cappy (and thanks Nan for finding those stories.) In her case it had a disastrous effect on her future with the team, not for politics, but because with a new coach and a new system two other players were added to the team - Angel and Whalen - and did really well providing the offensive punch, more disruptive defense, and better PG skills, and when the next team was pulled together they had passed her in knowledge of the system and particular skills needed for the team. And Pondexter wasn't a fixture for the NT - 2008 was her first team, she was a reserve who played well but her stats were just average - 9th on the team in scoring, with 17 assists and 5 steals. In her absence in 2010 and playing off the bench Angel was second in scoring with 9 assists and 24 steals and Whalen scored about the same with 14 assists and 12 steals, and they both rebounded better. In effect the team had moved on - had Cappy been available in 2010 then one of the two would not have made team, and in 2012 they would have had to play well enough in trials to supplant her as opposed to the other way around.
To some degree I think Parker falls into the same category - Stewart was on the 2014 team because both EDD and Parker were unavailable. Having gotten into the team and with a future upside and a position as the 'rookie' she was not going to be displaced. The real decision came down to EDD, Catchings, and Parker - the three players unavailable in 2014. Catchings like Bird and Taurasi was not going to be displaced and is a team captain. So the final throw came down to the reigning WNBA POY and the former two time WNBA POY. Neither are stellar defensively, and offensively they are both great but slightly different - EDD is better in the midrange to the arc while Candace is stronger from 15 feet in - both great players. Pick-em.
UcMiami
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I actually agree it was an ultimatum by Geno, but it wasn't directed to USA basketball at all - it was directed to Sue and DT - if I take this job, then you have to do everything in your power to get onto the team going to Rio, because I don't want to do it without you. Those were the two people he was talking to and that was the message he was delivering. Sue sat out foreign competition to get her body ready for this summer and DT sat out a WNBA season to do the same. The three of them made a pact and good health willing, they are all living up to it.
meyers7
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Except for Stewie isn't really a "rookie". She played in the WC's. Same experience Griner had. And more experience than EDD has had. EDD is the real rookie. If anyone took Parker's place, it was EDD.
Actually Stewart has quite a bit of experience at the International level. Been with USA Basketball since U16's. And twice has won USA WBB Athlete of the Year. I think people forget (or don't realize) Stewart is not Geno's Golden Girl, she's USA Basketball's Golden Girl. No way she was not gonna be on the team. Nothing to do with Geno.
UcMiami
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Just for some perspective on NT team make-up and the 'rookie' slot:
1996 - Lobo - no pro experience (none of the team had any but she was the youngest at 22 by 2 years)
1998 - Holdsclaw - still in college, Wolters one year out of college
2000 - Holdsclaw - 1 yr pro
2002 - Bird - no pro experience, and Catchings 1 year pro.
2004 - Taurasi - no pro experience
2006 - Parker - still in college, Augustus 1 year pro
2008 - Fowles - no pro experience and Parker no pro experience
2010 - Moore - still in college and Charles no pro experience
2012 - Moore - 1 year pro
2014 - Stewart - still in college and Sims no pro experience
2016 - Stewart - no pro experience
Since a USA profession league was first being organized in 1996 there have been 10 NT competitions and in 8 of those teams there has been a player on the team with no pro experience and in the other 2 there has been a player with a single year of pro ball. In 4 of the 8 teams the player with no pro experience was still in college and three of those four times the player was a junior (Holdsclaw, Parker, and Stewart) - interesting to note all for of those years were WC years and not Olympics. In every one of those four instances that college player on the WC team has also been on the following Olympic team with no pro experience or in Moore's case a single year.
It is clear from the above tat USA basketball generally reserves one or sometimes two places for pre-professional or barely professional players, and I am sure that in each of those years there was a professional player with a stronger claim to be included than the 'rookie' and I am sure there was controversy about the rookie being included. Looking at the rookies that have been included with the exception of Lobo and Wolters who succumbed early to injuries and Holdsclaw whose personal issues exploded, the rest of the players have remain in the USA pool since their first selection.
Parker herself was twice selected to the NT over better and far more experienced professional players so can we please stop with the Stewart over Parker discussion - that isn't and never was the choice being made.
Tina Thompson herself was a starter on both of those teams by the way, and I wonder if she felt the committee/one person was destroying USA basketball at that time?
1996 - Lobo - no pro experience (none of the team had any but she was the youngest at 22 by 2 years)
1998 - Holdsclaw - still in college, Wolters one year out of college
2000 - Holdsclaw - 1 yr pro
2002 - Bird - no pro experience, and Catchings 1 year pro.
2004 - Taurasi - no pro experience
2006 - Parker - still in college, Augustus 1 year pro
2008 - Fowles - no pro experience and Parker no pro experience
2010 - Moore - still in college and Charles no pro experience
2012 - Moore - 1 year pro
2014 - Stewart - still in college and Sims no pro experience
2016 - Stewart - no pro experience
Since a USA profession league was first being organized in 1996 there have been 10 NT competitions and in 8 of those teams there has been a player on the team with no pro experience and in the other 2 there has been a player with a single year of pro ball. In 4 of the 8 teams the player with no pro experience was still in college and three of those four times the player was a junior (Holdsclaw, Parker, and Stewart) - interesting to note all for of those years were WC years and not Olympics. In every one of those four instances that college player on the WC team has also been on the following Olympic team with no pro experience or in Moore's case a single year.
It is clear from the above tat USA basketball generally reserves one or sometimes two places for pre-professional or barely professional players, and I am sure that in each of those years there was a professional player with a stronger claim to be included than the 'rookie' and I am sure there was controversy about the rookie being included. Looking at the rookies that have been included with the exception of Lobo and Wolters who succumbed early to injuries and Holdsclaw whose personal issues exploded, the rest of the players have remain in the USA pool since their first selection.
Parker herself was twice selected to the NT over better and far more experienced professional players so can we please stop with the Stewart over Parker discussion - that isn't and never was the choice being made.
Tina Thompson herself was a starter on both of those teams by the way, and I wonder if she felt the committee/one person was destroying USA basketball at that time?
Icebear
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There was a decision made by USA Basketball before the Final Four that a collegian would be included on the Olympic team and Stewie was identified as that selection. Doris Burke mentioned it during the Oregon State game in the second half. It was not a Stewie vs Parker thing. I believe her statement was, "Stewie will be the collegian on the Olympic team."
Also, Stewie has played for USA Basketball every step of the way during her development.
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UConnCat
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Great analysis.
Icebear
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Absolutely, it isn't a McDonald's AA team. This team, actually, has to have proper balance and be able to play basketball not just run up and down the court and shoot. It needs proper balance by position and flexibility to address the various challenges international teams present from small and fast with great three point shooting to big players like Cambage for the Aussies.
Icebear
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Sorry, it was Beth Mowins who made the collegian statement about Stewie at 5:32 in the third quarter against Oregon State. "It is widely anticipated, Doris, that she will be 'the' graduating collegian that will join the United States at the Olympics in Rio."
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Orangutan
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Small nit - 2014 worlds happened after the WNBA season. So Sims had a year of pro experience going into that tournament. Not sure if the same was true of previous years' Worlds.
The Stewart-Parker connection is very easy to make. One of USAB's stated reasons that Parker didn't make it was that that position is one of the team's strongest. What position does Parker play? She's a 4 that can play 3, too. (I think she starts at 3 for LA, but bear with me. EDD starts at a 3 for CHI - I'd still say her primary position is 4). Who else does that describe? Delle Donne and Stewart. Well, no one's going to be upset about the reigning MVP making the team. So naturally, they look at Stewart.
I see both sides. Yes, they've always had the "rookie" slot. So in that sense it's more Delle Donne taking Parker's spot than Stewart. Honestly, as an EDD fan I was a little scared she would still miss for that very reason.
On the other hand, nowhere is it set in stone that you must have a "rookie" slot.
Lastly, you could of course have had all 3 on the same team. One possible solution being that you could take out Charles or Fowles and make Delle Donne moonlight at 5 if absolutely necessary.
Icebear
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He doesn't nor is it true.
UcMiami
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Orangutan - thanks for that mention about the WC - the dates for that competition shift around a lot while the Olympics are more fixed into the mid-summer window - the Olympians and WC team members that I list as no pro experience could well have a few months by the time the team actually formed but they were all 'in the pool' prior to their pro career beginning.
It may not be 'set in stone' about the rookie slot, but 8 of 10 with the other two being first year pros seems pretty 'concrete'.
With Cambage and a few others out there, I don't think Fowles/Griner/Charles not making the team was ever an option. I think the real question came down to: do we disappoint Candace or do we disappoint Catchings. (I know that isn't what I originally posted but it is my gut feeling - USA basketball chose sentiment and leadership over skill for the 'last' position on the team.)
We think of EDD as the reigning WNBA POY, but she is the only member of the NT team who has NEVER played against another National team in her career, and she has one WUG competition in 2011 of international play - she has yet to play for a foreign team having played professionally only with Chicago. Stewart has played three international competitions against national teams, as well as 5 other age specific competitions internationally. In fact she has been playing international rules basketball for 7 years already.
It may not be 'set in stone' about the rookie slot, but 8 of 10 with the other two being first year pros seems pretty 'concrete'.
With Cambage and a few others out there, I don't think Fowles/Griner/Charles not making the team was ever an option. I think the real question came down to: do we disappoint Candace or do we disappoint Catchings. (I know that isn't what I originally posted but it is my gut feeling - USA basketball chose sentiment and leadership over skill for the 'last' position on the team.)
We think of EDD as the reigning WNBA POY, but she is the only member of the NT team who has NEVER played against another National team in her career, and she has one WUG competition in 2011 of international play - she has yet to play for a foreign team having played professionally only with Chicago. Stewart has played three international competitions against national teams, as well as 5 other age specific competitions internationally. In fact she has been playing international rules basketball for 7 years already.
Justavisitor
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This isn't accurate. When the 2008 Olympic team was announce, they first started with naming only 9 players and then adding 3 more as the season went on. Parker and Fowles were both part of the original 9 and each player had already debuted in the WNBA. In Parkers first game in the WNBA, she scored 34 point and 12 rebounds. She also had followed that up with other outstanding performances prior to the selection. The committee knew what they were getting in terms of how she played against professional competition.
In addition, Candace played with team USA during the qualifying rounds in 2007. Australia, with Lauren Jackson, was one of the teams they faced. She played along side the other US pros. Note that Tina Thompson played along side Candace prior to 2008, so she certainly wasn't upset that Candace was added as a rookie.
Both times the U.S. came out on top. However, the first contest saw the USA post a heady 96-64 victory as Thompson led the way with 21 points; while the second game was a much closer affair, 70-66. Candace Parker earned high scoring honors with 23 points.
Parker paced the U.S. with 15.5 ppg., Tina Thompson averaged 15.0 ppg.
UcMiami
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Candace was first added to the national team as a collegian for the 2006 WC with no professional experience and no prior experience in the NT - she was added while Lisa Leslie, Yolanda Griffith, and Dawn Staley were politely asked to step aside, and a few others from the 2004 gold medal team were dropped. Lisa, Dawn, and Yolanda were all stars in 2006.
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