Umass no longer playing FB in MAC?

[btstimpy]

Because 13 is a stupid number of teams in a football league, when the 13th is 2-22 and keeps their better programs elsewhere.

2-22 playing in the MAC is problematic at best. It would suggest a coaching change requirement at the least. Xs and Os are an issue as well as recruiting talent. There are some good teams in the MAC, but 10-14 looks more reasonable for a bad team in the MAC. 2-22 is ridiculous.

 

[btstimpy]

Stimp has marginal understanding of CFB in the NE as he consider's SU and BC as some kinda of eastern power's or "rival" of PSU yet ask him SU's record against PSU in the last(or only) 24 times they played...I believe w/o checking PSU 22 and SU 2 ? Maybe his view is jaded by the fact he's a longtime member of their board.

Penn State just played Syracuse in football in 2013, and I was on the Penn State board right after that when B1G fans from Purdue and Ohio State posted on the Penn State board that Syracuse is no rival of Penn State. You would be shocked Nicky with how many Penn State fans crucified the Big Ten posters for suggesting such a thing. The Big Ten folks were told in no uncertain terms that they are clueless as to who Penn State's rivals are. Syracuse is one in the minds of many of the Penn State fans. If the series record is that bad, I don't quite know why. So is Pittsburgh by the way.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Penn State just played Syracuse in football in 2013, and I was on the Penn State board right after that when B1G fans from Purdue and Ohio State posted on the Penn State board that Syracuse is no rival of Penn State. You would be shocked Nicky with how many Penn State fans crucified the Big Ten posters for suggesting such a thing. The Big Ten folks were told in no uncertain terms that they are clueless as to who Penn State's rivals are. Syracuse is one in the minds of many of the Penn State fans. If the series record is that bad, I don't quite know why. So is Pittsburgh by the way.

College rivalries, as least pre TV driven conference realignment, are driven by groups of friends from the same high school who end up at different schools. Thus, I am not surprised that Penn State views Syracuse as a more of a rival overall than Indiana, Minnesota, etc. because most students at Penn State have friends at Syracuse, Pitt, etc. and not the B1G schools. Those are the schools that Penn State students visit on weekend road trips with, trash talking their friends at the game, and then playing beer die with them after. It’s the same reason why when I was at UConn, our rivals were BC, Syracuse and Providence, URI, UNH because that is where my peers went. Today, it’s still Syracuse and BD; but the old Yankee and Big E Catholics schools have been replaced by Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, etc.

 

[Vuce]

http://www.masslive.com/sports/inde...itiv.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-1

"As a rule, FBS schools don't leave one league until they are sure of their next one. That is not the case with UMass, which has little to offer unless it caves in and joins another league in all sports - which could wind up as a desperate, no-choice solution down the road.
Can it offer the Boston market? Check the Gillette attendance figures and the 2014 schedule (with three games moved back in Amherst) for your answer."

 

[btstimpy]

Well the MAC isn't really anymore far flung than the A-10. Unless St Louis moved a few hundred miles east.

Any chance of a mass move within CAA football to upgrade to FBS? Could Maine, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Delaware, James Madison, Albany, and Stonybrook all upgrade at once? That could create the league UMass would like.

Otherwise it's the AAC or C-USA. Both of these require travel to Florida and Texas.

 

[whaler11]

Any chance of a mass move within CAA football to upgrade to FBS? Could Maine, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Delaware, James Madison, Albany, and Stonybrook all upgrade at once? That could create the league UMass would like.

Otherwise it's the AAC or C-USA. Both of these require travel to Florida and Texas.

Rhode Island already tried to downgrade to 40 scholarships and the NEC but came back to the CAA.

Highly doubt anymore than one or two of those schools is even seriously comtemplating it.

 

[pepband99]

Interesting. A flagship state school decided to not drag down their entire athletic department just because it would be easier to fill out a football schedule in a far flung league where they don't fit.

1) Call me when they declare they're going independent. Then you can:
2) Watch the dumpster fire of UMass athletics grow, and see what you're suggesting for UConn, you dope.

 

[Murph]

Any chance of a mass move within CAA football to upgrade to FBS? Could Maine, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Delaware, James Madison, Albany, and Stonybrook all upgrade at once? That could create the league UMass would like.

Otherwise it's the AAC or C-USA. Both of these require travel to Florida and Texas.

It's expensive, but wouldn't you WANT to go to TEX and FLA for recruiting purposes?

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Any chance of a mass move within CAA football to upgrade to FBS? Could Maine, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Delaware, James Madison, Albany, and Stonybrook all upgrade at once? That could create the league UMass would like.

Otherwise it's the AAC or C-USA. Both of these require travel to Florida and Texas.

The U Maine system has about a $36 million deficit right now and are cutting 200 positions, including faculty. They do not have the money nor the stomach to upgrade football. URI has been going back and forth about cutting scholarships. New Hampshire I believe has the lowest per capita funding of higher education in the country, so UNH would have to find a donor to upgrade football, which is not likely unless Chip Kelly suddenly felt generous. Thus, unless a miracle happens, UConn and BC are going to be the only college major football programs in New England in the foreseeable future.

 

[billybud]

Maine is at .74 of the national average on higher ed public spending (FY 2011).....Fla is at .77, as a comparison.

Massachusetts is one of the lower tier public spending states per capita in the country...at .66 the national average in public spending per capita.

 

[btstimpy]

It's expensive, but wouldn't you WANT to go to TEX and FLA for recruiting purposes?

For Football the answer is YES Without Question. To send my Men's Ice Hockey, Men's Lacrosse, Track & Field, Basketball, Field Hockey, Soccer, and Swimming & Diving Teams to Florida and Texas on a weekly basis wouldn't exactly "Start Me Up" to quote a 1981 Rolling Stones song along with some other women's sports. For baseball and softball, it would also have benefit.

I'd like to see UConn in the ACC. UConn fits well. You shouldn't be running out to Texas for these sports. That's my opinion for what it is worth. BTW, I don't think you should run out to Iowa and Nebraska either, but some here want to.

 

[Fishy]

We're not in the ACC.

With that in mind, Iowa, Nebraska and Texas all seem like nifty destinations.

We're in Hockey East so at least that has a happy home.

 

[upstater]

Penn State just played Syracuse in football in 2013, and I was on the Penn State board right after that when B1G fans from Purdue and Ohio State posted on the Penn State board that Syracuse is no rival of Penn State. You would be shocked Nicky with how many Penn State fans crucified the Big Ten posters for suggesting such a thing. The Big Ten folks were told in no uncertain terms that they are clueless as to who Penn State's rivals are. Syracuse is one in the minds of many of the Penn State fans. If the series record is that bad, I don't quite know why. So is Pittsburgh by the way.

As a long time PSU fan who reads the BWI board, I'm surprised anyone at all said Cuse is a rival. Maybe in kneejerk reaction to jerk B1G fans, but really, I can't imagine any PSU fans care about playing Cuse.

 

[billybud]

Do Penn State guys really care about playing Indiana, Northwestern, Illinois, Rutgers this coming season?

I have no idea of fan desires of the area...but those teams do not really appeal to my personal bias.

 

[upstater]

Do Penn State guys really care about playing Indiana, Northwestern, Illinois, Rutgers this coming season?

I have no idea of fan desires of the area...but those teams do not really appeal to my personal bias.

A lot more than Syracuse. Indiana really doesn't move the dial. Rutgers has interest for PSU because of New Jersey recruiting, and always has. PSU likes a bad Rutgers. Northwestern with Fitzgerald is much more of a rival than Syracuse and Illinois is coming on strong. Indiana is just a bad team. The interest in a PSU-Cuse game is almost nil among the fanbase given how bad Syracuse is at football presently.

 

[billybud]

Got it...like FSU guys didn't care about playing Maryland. And are ecstatic that Duke is in the other division.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Maine is at .74 of the national average on higher ed public spending (FY 2011).....Fla is at .77, as a comparison.

Massachusetts is one of the lower tier public spending states per capita in the country...at .66 the national average in public spending per capita.

As a resident who won't take advantage of in-state public schools for my daughter, that's fine with me. It's that way because despite that low spending, the state is more densely packed with high quality schools than any other state, and it isn't close. Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Tufts, Bowdoin, Bentley, Wellesley, Amherst, Williams, Smith, Mount Holyoke, Holy Cross. By contrast, Florida has one highly rated private school: Miami, despite being a much bigger state.

UConn fought this same mindset, being behind Yale, Wesleyan, Trinity in the minds of many residents years ago. But CT doesn't have a lineup of private schools like MA does. UMass has a tough lot in life. But it certainly isn't a bad school. It just has nothing that stands out. Even among local public schools UVM is much more fun and is in a cool college town/small city. URI is next to the beach. UNH is near Portsmouth, NH and is closer to Boston than UMass.

 

[upstater]

As a resident who won't take advantage of in-state public schools for my daughter, that's fine with me. It's that way because despite that low spending, the state is more densely packed with high quality schools than any other state, and it isn't close. Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Tufts, Bowdoin, Bentley, Wellesley, Amherst, Williams, Smith, Mount Holyoke, Holy Cross. By contrast, Florida has one highly rated private school: Miami, despite being a much bigger state.

UConn fought this same mindset, being behind Yale, Wesleyan, Trinity in the minds of many residents years ago. But CT doesn't have a lineup of private schools like MA does. UMass has a tough lot in life. But it certainly isn't a bad school. It just has nothing that stands out. Even among local public schools UVM is much more fun and is in a cool college town/small city. URI is next to the beach. UNH is near Portsmouth, NH and is closer to Boston than UMass.

You need to judge the spending at UMass against the spending at other public institutions. The state spending per pupil is irrelevant if the vst majority of those upils in one state attend community college as opposed to the state land grant or 4 year research institution.

226 million is the state appropriation for UMass, for 18000 MA undergrads, 3500 out of state, 350 foreign. Tuition is $13,300, OOS Tuition: $28,000, New England tuition: $21,000

Total Budget is $1.025B / 28,000 total students grad/undergrad = 36,600 actual cost per student. To me that looks like the state is not subsidizing out-of-staters, so I conclude that the subsidy from taxpayers is about 1/2 the actual cost (I'm deducting restricted funds/research from the cost because at least half of that is not used for university expenses but rather the research itself, which benefits faculty and some grad students).

So, in this case, the state taxpayer is funding about 40-50% of the total bill.

Florida State is at $490m for its total budget, or half of UMass. And that's with only $31 million from the state. For 40,000+ students.

Any way you cut it, Massachusetts subsidizes state students to a far greater degree than Florida does Florida State students, and that's almost by a factor of 10x. $31m / 40k students at FSU. $226m / 22k at UMass.

 

[BlueHen]

Interesting. A flagship state school decided to not drag down their entire athletic department just because it would be easier to fill out a football schedule in a far flung league where they don't fit.

We will have to see how this works out for them. The UMass and UConn athletic departments are not in exactly the same situation right now. This may or may not be a good move for UMass, either way it doesn't mean that UConn should do the same thing.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I am no longer clear about the topic of this thread, but that was a really interesting analysis Upstater.

 

[billybud]

You need to judge the spending at UMass against the spending at other public institutions. The state spending per pupil is irrelevant if the vst majority of those upils in one state attend community college as opposed to the state land grant or 4 year research institution.

226 million is the state appropriation for UMass, for 18000 MA undergrads, 3500 out of state, 350 foreign. Tuition is $13,300, OOS Tuition: $28,000, New England tuition: $21,000

Total Budget is $1.025B / 28,000 total students grad/undergrad = 36,600 actual cost per student. To me that looks like the state is not subsidizing out-of-staters, so I conclude that the subsidy from taxpayers is about 1/2 the actual cost (I'm deducting restricted funds/research from the cost because at least half of that is not used for university expenses but rather the research itself, which benefits faculty and some grad students).

So, in this case, the state taxpayer is funding about 40-50% of the total bill.

Florida State is at $490m for its total budget, or half of UMass. And that's with only $31 million from the state. For 40,000+ students.

Any way you cut it, Massachusetts subsidizes state students to a far greater degree than Florida does Florida State students, and that's almost by a factor of 10x. $31m / 40k students at FSU. $226m / 22k at UMass.

Florida is a low tax state...a pittance paid compared to Massachusetts. And historically, Florida invests less in public education...


"In a recent report by U.S. News and World Report, Florida State University was ranked the most efficient university in the nation for the second year in a row. The study is done by comparative criteria based on the school’s ranking academically and its financial funds available.

In a study done based on the 2011 fiscal year, FSU spent $17,731 per student, the lowest number among all schools ranked in the top 100 academically. "

 

[billybud]

The Florida legislature, with all of the retirees voting, is always tight fisted. With no state income tax, and folks grandfathered in on home valuation taxation so that taxes can not increase much over time, the state depends on fleecing visitors with a sales tax of 7%.

I have lived in the same house for 29 years. My tax is sooooo low that I am embarrassed to speak of it.

 

[clmssun]

The Florida legislature, with all of the retirees voting, is always tight fisted. With no state income tax, and folks grandfathered in on home valuation taxation so that taxes can not increase much over time, the state depends on fleecing visitors with a sales tax of 7%.

I have lived in the same house for 29 years. My tax is sooooo low that I am embarrassed to speak of it.

And yet 7% is not really that high for sales tax, either. What fraction of the counties now have additional sales taxes?

 

[RioDog]

As a resident who won't take advantage of in-state public schools for my daughter, that's fine with me. It's that way because despite that low spending, the state is more densely packed with high quality schools than any other state, and it isn't close. Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Tufts, Bowdoin, Bentley, Wellesley, Amherst, Williams, Smith, Mount Holyoke, Holy Cross. By contrast, Florida has one highly rated private school: Miami, despite being a much bigger state.

UConn fought this same mindset, being behind Yale, Wesleyan, Trinity in the minds of many residents years ago. But CT doesn't have a lineup of private schools like MA does. UMass has a tough lot in life. But it certainly isn't a bad school. It just has nothing that stands out. Even among local public schools UVM is much more fun and is in a cool college town/small city. URI is next to the beach. UNH is near Portsmouth, NH and is closer to Boston than UMass.

Pretty sure Bowdoin is in Maine, as I used to drive by it every day on my commute to U. of Southern Maine. Just sayin'...

 

[HuskyHawk]

Pretty sure Bowdoin is in Maine, as I used to drive by it every day on my commute to U. of Southern Maine. Just sayin'...

Yes, it is...I meant Brandeis. Stupid multitude of "B" schools.