Umass no longer playing FB in MAC?

[btstimpy]

It's expensive, but wouldn't you WANT to go to TEX and FLA for recruiting purposes?

For Football the answer is YES Without Question. To send my Men's Ice Hockey, Men's Lacrosse, Track & Field, Basketball, Field Hockey, Soccer, and Swimming & Diving Teams to Florida and Texas on a weekly basis wouldn't exactly "Start Me Up" to quote a 1981 Rolling Stones song along with some other women's sports. For baseball and softball, it would also have benefit.

I'd like to see UConn in the ACC. UConn fits well. You shouldn't be running out to Texas for these sports. That's my opinion for what it is worth. BTW, I don't think you should run out to Iowa and Nebraska either, but some here want to.

 

[Fishy]

We're not in the ACC.

With that in mind, Iowa, Nebraska and Texas all seem like nifty destinations.

We're in Hockey East so at least that has a happy home.

 

[upstater]

Penn State just played Syracuse in football in 2013, and I was on the Penn State board right after that when B1G fans from Purdue and Ohio State posted on the Penn State board that Syracuse is no rival of Penn State. You would be shocked Nicky with how many Penn State fans crucified the Big Ten posters for suggesting such a thing. The Big Ten folks were told in no uncertain terms that they are clueless as to who Penn State's rivals are. Syracuse is one in the minds of many of the Penn State fans. If the series record is that bad, I don't quite know why. So is Pittsburgh by the way.

As a long time PSU fan who reads the BWI board, I'm surprised anyone at all said Cuse is a rival. Maybe in kneejerk reaction to jerk B1G fans, but really, I can't imagine any PSU fans care about playing Cuse.

 

[billybud]

Do Penn State guys really care about playing Indiana, Northwestern, Illinois, Rutgers this coming season?

I have no idea of fan desires of the area...but those teams do not really appeal to my personal bias.

 

[upstater]

Do Penn State guys really care about playing Indiana, Northwestern, Illinois, Rutgers this coming season?

I have no idea of fan desires of the area...but those teams do not really appeal to my personal bias.

A lot more than Syracuse. Indiana really doesn't move the dial. Rutgers has interest for PSU because of New Jersey recruiting, and always has. PSU likes a bad Rutgers. Northwestern with Fitzgerald is much more of a rival than Syracuse and Illinois is coming on strong. Indiana is just a bad team. The interest in a PSU-Cuse game is almost nil among the fanbase given how bad Syracuse is at football presently.

 

[billybud]

Got it...like FSU guys didn't care about playing Maryland. And are ecstatic that Duke is in the other division.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Maine is at .74 of the national average on higher ed public spending (FY 2011).....Fla is at .77, as a comparison.

Massachusetts is one of the lower tier public spending states per capita in the country...at .66 the national average in public spending per capita.

As a resident who won't take advantage of in-state public schools for my daughter, that's fine with me. It's that way because despite that low spending, the state is more densely packed with high quality schools than any other state, and it isn't close. Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Tufts, Bowdoin, Bentley, Wellesley, Amherst, Williams, Smith, Mount Holyoke, Holy Cross. By contrast, Florida has one highly rated private school: Miami, despite being a much bigger state.

UConn fought this same mindset, being behind Yale, Wesleyan, Trinity in the minds of many residents years ago. But CT doesn't have a lineup of private schools like MA does. UMass has a tough lot in life. But it certainly isn't a bad school. It just has nothing that stands out. Even among local public schools UVM is much more fun and is in a cool college town/small city. URI is next to the beach. UNH is near Portsmouth, NH and is closer to Boston than UMass.

 

[upstater]

As a resident who won't take advantage of in-state public schools for my daughter, that's fine with me. It's that way because despite that low spending, the state is more densely packed with high quality schools than any other state, and it isn't close. Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Tufts, Bowdoin, Bentley, Wellesley, Amherst, Williams, Smith, Mount Holyoke, Holy Cross. By contrast, Florida has one highly rated private school: Miami, despite being a much bigger state.

UConn fought this same mindset, being behind Yale, Wesleyan, Trinity in the minds of many residents years ago. But CT doesn't have a lineup of private schools like MA does. UMass has a tough lot in life. But it certainly isn't a bad school. It just has nothing that stands out. Even among local public schools UVM is much more fun and is in a cool college town/small city. URI is next to the beach. UNH is near Portsmouth, NH and is closer to Boston than UMass.

You need to judge the spending at UMass against the spending at other public institutions. The state spending per pupil is irrelevant if the vst majority of those upils in one state attend community college as opposed to the state land grant or 4 year research institution.

226 million is the state appropriation for UMass, for 18000 MA undergrads, 3500 out of state, 350 foreign. Tuition is $13,300, OOS Tuition: $28,000, New England tuition: $21,000

Total Budget is $1.025B / 28,000 total students grad/undergrad = 36,600 actual cost per student. To me that looks like the state is not subsidizing out-of-staters, so I conclude that the subsidy from taxpayers is about 1/2 the actual cost (I'm deducting restricted funds/research from the cost because at least half of that is not used for university expenses but rather the research itself, which benefits faculty and some grad students).

So, in this case, the state taxpayer is funding about 40-50% of the total bill.

Florida State is at $490m for its total budget, or half of UMass. And that's with only $31 million from the state. For 40,000+ students.

Any way you cut it, Massachusetts subsidizes state students to a far greater degree than Florida does Florida State students, and that's almost by a factor of 10x. $31m / 40k students at FSU. $226m / 22k at UMass.

 

[BlueHen]

Interesting. A flagship state school decided to not drag down their entire athletic department just because it would be easier to fill out a football schedule in a far flung league where they don't fit.

We will have to see how this works out for them. The UMass and UConn athletic departments are not in exactly the same situation right now. This may or may not be a good move for UMass, either way it doesn't mean that UConn should do the same thing.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I am no longer clear about the topic of this thread, but that was a really interesting analysis Upstater.

 

[billybud]

You need to judge the spending at UMass against the spending at other public institutions. The state spending per pupil is irrelevant if the vst majority of those upils in one state attend community college as opposed to the state land grant or 4 year research institution.

226 million is the state appropriation for UMass, for 18000 MA undergrads, 3500 out of state, 350 foreign. Tuition is $13,300, OOS Tuition: $28,000, New England tuition: $21,000

Total Budget is $1.025B / 28,000 total students grad/undergrad = 36,600 actual cost per student. To me that looks like the state is not subsidizing out-of-staters, so I conclude that the subsidy from taxpayers is about 1/2 the actual cost (I'm deducting restricted funds/research from the cost because at least half of that is not used for university expenses but rather the research itself, which benefits faculty and some grad students).

So, in this case, the state taxpayer is funding about 40-50% of the total bill.

Florida State is at $490m for its total budget, or half of UMass. And that's with only $31 million from the state. For 40,000+ students.

Any way you cut it, Massachusetts subsidizes state students to a far greater degree than Florida does Florida State students, and that's almost by a factor of 10x. $31m / 40k students at FSU. $226m / 22k at UMass.

Florida is a low tax state...a pittance paid compared to Massachusetts. And historically, Florida invests less in public education...


"In a recent report by U.S. News and World Report, Florida State University was ranked the most efficient university in the nation for the second year in a row. The study is done by comparative criteria based on the school’s ranking academically and its financial funds available.

In a study done based on the 2011 fiscal year, FSU spent $17,731 per student, the lowest number among all schools ranked in the top 100 academically. "

 

[billybud]

The Florida legislature, with all of the retirees voting, is always tight fisted. With no state income tax, and folks grandfathered in on home valuation taxation so that taxes can not increase much over time, the state depends on fleecing visitors with a sales tax of 7%.

I have lived in the same house for 29 years. My tax is sooooo low that I am embarrassed to speak of it.

 

[clmssun]

The Florida legislature, with all of the retirees voting, is always tight fisted. With no state income tax, and folks grandfathered in on home valuation taxation so that taxes can not increase much over time, the state depends on fleecing visitors with a sales tax of 7%.

I have lived in the same house for 29 years. My tax is sooooo low that I am embarrassed to speak of it.

And yet 7% is not really that high for sales tax, either. What fraction of the counties now have additional sales taxes?

 

[RioDog]

As a resident who won't take advantage of in-state public schools for my daughter, that's fine with me. It's that way because despite that low spending, the state is more densely packed with high quality schools than any other state, and it isn't close. Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Tufts, Bowdoin, Bentley, Wellesley, Amherst, Williams, Smith, Mount Holyoke, Holy Cross. By contrast, Florida has one highly rated private school: Miami, despite being a much bigger state.

UConn fought this same mindset, being behind Yale, Wesleyan, Trinity in the minds of many residents years ago. But CT doesn't have a lineup of private schools like MA does. UMass has a tough lot in life. But it certainly isn't a bad school. It just has nothing that stands out. Even among local public schools UVM is much more fun and is in a cool college town/small city. URI is next to the beach. UNH is near Portsmouth, NH and is closer to Boston than UMass.

Pretty sure Bowdoin is in Maine, as I used to drive by it every day on my commute to U. of Southern Maine. Just sayin'...

 

[HuskyHawk]

Pretty sure Bowdoin is in Maine, as I used to drive by it every day on my commute to U. of Southern Maine. Just sayin'...

Yes, it is...I meant Brandeis. Stupid multitude of "B" schools.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Crew is considered a sport up there.

 

[btstimpy]

This could spell the end of the UMass FBS football experiment. No way the Southern wing of the AAC is interested in adding UMass in football.

A good move for the Southern wing of the AAC would be to get access to Georgia. There is a realistic chance that Georgia State could turn into the next USF/UCF type football school, and Georgia State isn't terrible at basketball. They made the NIT this year. A combination add of UMass and Georgia State could be good strategic additions for Mike Aresco.

Everyone knows that UConn and Cincinnati want to leave. Adding UMass and Georgia State could shore up a New England presence long term for the AAC, and it would get the league into Georgia and Atlanta, which would definintely help for football. Georgia State is making the transition to FBS, so they will struggle at first in football like UMass. But they could be a great long term bet.

 

[Fishy]

With no state income tax, and folks grandfathered in on home valuation taxation so that taxes can not increase much over time, the state depends on fleecing visitors with a sales tax of 7%.

In New York, we do have a high state income tax and high property taxes, but at least we get fleeced by an 8.375% sales tax.

 

[whaler11]

A good move for the Southern wing of the AAC would be to get access to Georgia. There is a realistic chance that Georgia State could turn into the next USF/UCF type football school, and Georgia State isn't terrible at basketball. They made the NIT this year. A combination add of UMass and Georgia State could be good strategic additions for Mike Aresco.

Everyone knows that UConn and Cincinnati want to leave. Adding UMass and Georgia State could shore up a New England presence long term for the AAC, and it would get the league into Georgia and Atlanta, which would definintely help for football. Georgia State is making the transition to FBS, so they will struggle at first in football like UMass. But they could be a great long term bet.

What's the waiting period for handguns in Virginia? Can you please get one and either shoot yourself or me in the face. It would be less painful than someone explaining why I'd want UConn in a league with Georgia State.

I mean come on they are like 373rd in the Director's Cup.

 

[btstimpy]

What's the waiting period for handguns in Virginia? Can you please get one and either shoot yourself or me in the face. It would be less painful than someone explaining why I'd want UConn in a league with Georgia State.

I mean come on they are like 373rd in the Director's Cup.

Access to Georgia High School football talent would be the reason. Old Dominion in Norfolk, VA could accomplish something similar. They are 103 after fall Director's Cup this year, well ahead of SMU. They are closer to UConn as well. Tidewater Virginia has great football talent too. Georgia has more. It might be easier to convince Virginia kids to come to Connecticut than Georgia kids. The culture shock would not be as dramatic. Anyway these are some options to pair UMass with a Southern School in football talent areas.

I don't think UConn wants to be in the AAC long term anyway. But the league itself isn't going anywhere.

 

[btstimpy]

In New York, we do have a high state income tax and high property taxes, but at least we get fleeced by an 8.375% sales tax.

I've always wondered what the average citizen gets for that. The infrastructure isn't much better than other states (roads, bridges,etc.). The schools may be a little better, but not dramatic. Where does that money go?

 

[whaler11]

Access to Georgia High School football talent would be the reason. Old Dominion in Norfolk, VA could accomplish something similar. They are 103 after fall Director's Cup this year, well ahead of SMU. They are closer to UConn as well. Tidewater Virginia has great football talent too. Georgia has more. It might be easier to convince Virginia kids to come to Connecticut than Georgia kids. The culture shock would not be as dramatic. Anyway these are some options to pair UMass with a Southern School in football talent areas.

I don't think UConn wants to be in the AAC long term anyway. But the league itself isn't going anywhere.

OK fine I'll get my own gun and just shoot myself.

Seriously this is all idiotic. The AAC is bad enough. Coming up with a second school TO ADD TO THE SCHOOL THAT GOT KICKED OUT OF THE MAC FOR BEING SH!TTY is really unnecessary.

Oh ODU is ahead of SMU in the director's cup. Valuable intel for sure. I bet Larry Brown will jump off a bridge over that news.

 

[Fishy]

I've always wondered what the average citizen gets for that. The infrastructure isn't much better than other states (roads, bridges,etc.). The schools may be a little better, but not dramatic. Where does that money go?

Honestly, the average citizen gets nothing.

Our public employees make more money, their benefits are higher, the public benefits are more generous, etc., etc.

Compare the Fairfax schools with Westchester County schools - they're about equal, but Fairfax does it much more economically.

It is what it is, I guess.

 

[whaler11]

Dan were you liking
A: The concept of me shooting myself
B: Calling out the Georgia State nonsense
C: A&B
D: You just like first and worry about the ramifications later

 

[NickyNewark]

Do Penn State guys really care about playing Indiana, Northwestern, Illinois, Rutgers this coming season?

I have no idea of fan desires of the area...but those teams do not really appeal to my personal bias.

Exactly billy,you have no idea....enjoy the apple! Personally I don't think you're biases matter to those up here?

 

[NickyNewark]

Penn State just played Syracuse in football in 2013, and I was on the Penn State board right after that when B1G fans from Purdue and Ohio State posted on the Penn State board that Syracuse is no rival of Penn State. You would be shocked Nicky with how many Penn State fans crucified the Big Ten posters for suggesting such a thing. The Big Ten folks were told in no uncertain terms that they are clueless as to who Penn State's rivals are. Syracuse is one in the minds of many of the Penn State fans. If the series record is that bad, I don't quite know why. So is Pittsburgh by the way.

Wrong unless your only selectively choosing? Now SU would like to think their a "rival" of PSU cause it suits there purpose.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

The Florida legislature, with all of the retirees voting, is always tight fisted. With no state income tax, and folks grandfathered in on home valuation taxation so that taxes can not increase much over time, the state depends on fleecing visitors with a sales tax of 7%.

I have lived in the same house for 29 years. My tax is sooooo low that I am embarrassed to speak of it.

Us old guys in AZ have a similar political clout but that is changing as employment prospects are getting better here and families move for money.

 

[NickyNewark]

As a long time PSU fan who reads the BWI board, I'm surprised anyone at all said Cuse is a rival. Maybe in kneejerk reaction to jerk B1G fans, but really, I can't imagine any PSU fans care about playing Cuse.

You're right upstater cause I don't either....not 1 but Cuse fan's are grasping for anything that suits their agenda but most of the younger Cuse fans usually tell me they need to win the RU game and will miss it the most....RU/UConn/SU/PSU/Pitt and even the catholic school in Boston should be playing as often as possible or whats the use?

 

[RioDog]

Yes, it is...I meant Brandeis. Stupid multitude of "B" schools.

Yup. Not to mention Bates...