UConn stats....Nika vs Hailey Van Lith...

[Bills Fan]

I'm pretty sure Uconn has two other guards whose 'moves' are even better than what Hailey can do, even three if you count KK. Didn't we just spend a summer hearing arguments about how Paige was the best pg on the team? And how many BYers have claimed that Azzi was the second best pg on the team. Apart from how unpersuasive those arguments were, there is just no calculus where Hailey is a reasonable choice for a UConn team that has Paige Azzi and KK on it.

Don't get me wrong, I like Hailey's game. She's feisty and clever and can contribute to most teams... if she's used in the right way. And that way is not as pg. There's just no way I'm sitting Paige or Azzi down for her, and if those two are available to play, then Nika is a better choice for pg since Hailey's skill set would be redundant and Nika's wouldn't be. You can find the videos of their HS FIBA games and see the same result play out -- Hailey was second string on those teams behind Paige and Azzi. The basic facts haven't changed in the interim. Or you can consider the Louisville game from 2 years ago. We lost without Paige or Azzi or Nika, but Caroline outplayed Hailey with 24 pts on 10-20 shooting vs 16 points on 5-14 shooting. A freshman did that. These are the facts plain to see.

And for all the commenters who see Hailey Van Lith as a better fit at UCONN than Nika for PG, you also need to take into the equation that Hailey Van Lith is only 5'7" which makes her a defensive liability against many teams that have guards the size of Paige, Q, Caroline and even, to a lesser degree, Nika and Azzi

 

[nwhoopfan]

I would choose Halley over Nika in a heartbeat.
UConn has other point guards, but no one can come close to the moves that Halley can make except maybe KK.
Coached by Jen Rizzotti, Halley helped end an 8 year drought to bring home the 3X3 Gold Medal. this year.
Halley's talent easily passes the eye test showing why she was selected to play for Team USA.

HAILEY VAN LITH PUTS DEFENDER IN A BLENDER AS SHE AND CAMERON BRINK LEAD TEAM USA TO BREAK GOLD MEDAL DROUGHT​

Hailey Van Lith Puts Defender In Blender En Route To USA Gold Medal

Hailey Van Lith and Cameron Brink led Team USA to its first gold medal in the 3X3 World Cup since 2014. They were both on fire!

www.outkick.com

The comparison someone else made to Plum seems fairly apt watching this 3x3 footage. Both lefties, similar size, and I definitely see some similarity in playing style.

 

[sun]

In Hailey's recent interview posted on rthe 2023 LSU Offseason thread, she said that Kim is preparing her to play multiple positions.
She knows that she's not a PG & that she's only starting to learn the position.
Being able to play different positions is another indication of her BB skills compared to Nika's which are more limited.
It's just like how Paige doesn't need to play PG but she can excel wherever Geno plays her.

I look at it as if UConn were a pro team & if I were the GM would I trade Nika for Hailey.
Geno's contract pays him $50K for winning certain NCAAT rounds, so a coach would want the best availalble player so that he can earn the most money & to help his team win.
Just like why Hailey was chosen to be on the Team USA 3X3, because being smaller makes her quick enough to evade defenders.
It's only a hypothetical scenario anyway & not to be taken seriously.

 

[Notyetready]

Thank you David. Excellent post.

I guess the Nika debate on the Boneyard will continue for one more year. Nika is the Rodney Dangerfield of UConn Women's Basketball.

Two time Defensive Player of the Year in the Big East. Season UConn record for assists. The floor general of the team. The heart and soul of the team.

Her game has improved every year. To me, she passes the eye test as the point guard of the team. I would take Nika over Van Lith every time.

Apperently Geno would take Nika over Van Lith as well since it seems no offer was made to her when she was in the transfer portal.

 

[Cuango]

The comparison someone else made to Plum seems fairly apt watching this 3x3 footage. Both lefties, similar size, and I definitely see some similarity in playing style.

Kelsey shot 44 (overall) & 38%, Hailey Van Lith shoots 41 & 29% (last season) Kelsey is the most prolific scorer in college history, Hailey Van Lith, not so much. Plum never shot below 33% on threes and shot 37%, 40%, & 43% in her three other seasons for a 38.2 career avg. Hailey Van Lith shot 38%, 36%, & 29% for a 33.8% career avg. I would think she’ll be hard pressed to maintain or improve those percentages with her added responsibilities as a PG. She is smaller, a substantially poorer shooter, and is simply not in the same league as Plum!
We’ll see this season if Kim can reinvent Hailey Van Lith and turn her into a point guard. I wish her well but I have to say I have my doubts. I do hope I’m wrong though, as I admire her feisty attitude. She is a fearless and competitive player who never backs away from a challenge so I wish her all the best.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Kelsey shot 44 (overall) & 38%, Hailey Van Lith shoots 41 & 29% (last season) Kelsey is the most prolific scorer in college history, Hailey Van Lith, not so much. Plum never shot below 33% on threes and shot 37%, 40%, & 43% in her three other seasons for a 38.2 career avg. Hailey Van Lith shot 38%, 36%, & 29% for a 33.8% career avg. I would think she’ll be hard pressed to maintain or improve those percentages with her added responsibilities as a PG. She is smaller, a substantially poorer shooter, and is simply not in the same league as Plum!
We’ll see this season if Kim can reinvent Hailey Van Lith and turn her into a point guard. I wish her well but I have to say I have my doubts. I do hope I’m wrong though, as I admire her feisty attitude. She is a fearless and competitive player who never backs away from a challenge so I wish her all the best.

I'm a huge Plum fan, so you don't need to try to convert me. I obviously agree KP had a much better college career, but as I said I can see some similarities, particularly in the 3x3 format. It's a different flavor of hoops that both seem to shine at.

 

[hoophuskee]

you can use stats to prove the Earth is flat meaning numbers can be manipulated.. The only thing Nka is better at than Haley is Defense and assist.. would you want Haley or Nika taking a game-winning 3 or 2-point shot as for that NISE reference it's the same formula used to explain the world is flat as for turnovers Haley is a shooting guard who traditionally always have more turnovers than your point guard which Nika is simply out Noka is not better than Haley and I'm a Nika fan

I have said I believe Hailey Van Lith is the better player -- but there is something to be said regarding fit. Some posters will look at scoring as the only factor because they believe mistakenly that anybody can pass or learn to play great defense. Which imo is a gross error.


Anyhow- you speak of a game winning shot - but what about the other end if UCONN needs a stop for the last possession of the game? Who would you rather have? Secondly, Paige and Azzi are superior efficient scorers than Hailey Van Lith. Why wouldn’t we want the guard more dedicated to getting Paige and Azzi the ball? That’s a point digger expressed so well among others. I've gotten into many disagreements as well. IMO a classic example of what "Nika is" is shown per the video below. With 3:57 left in 3rd qtr UCONN down by 3, Azzi had missed all her 3's with maybe exception of 1 in 1st half, at 3:55 she probably sees Azzi once she receives the pass. She isn't going hyper speed and she slows down enough so that at 3:54/3:53 you can see she set up the defense while she had her back to Azzi.

It's no accident she immediately spins around at 3:53 as if she had eyes in the back of her head to face and pitch the ball back to Azzi. She knew Azzi was there. And at 3:52 upon pitching the ball back she is deliberately making her body wide so in a way she is simultaneously setting a pick/screening for Azzi so she can get off the shot without much contest from the defense. After Azzi drills this 3 to tie the game, she goes on to hit a few more. before that she wasn't hitting 3's but she got hot from 2.

For me, I find this play to be terrific and a testament to a pg's relentless approach of getting teammate superstars the ball in favorable positions and a clasic example of wha Nika is and wants to do as much as possible. On the flipside imo posters that want the pg's to score or make flashy passes or don't think much of passing can never appreciate this. And it's something possibly Hailey Van Lith will rarely have a mindset to do. Instead Hailey Van Lith may very well rush up the floor to her left side, away from Azzi, and look to make a move on her own. This means less efficinet scorer is going to take away shots from Azzi (and/or Paige). That may not be better.

 

[CL82]

think if Hailey Van Lith was on the team the past three years they'd have two Natty's at least

Probably like 5 or something.

 

[CL82]

I would choose Halley over Nika in a heartbeat.
UConn has other point guards, but no one can come close to the moves that Halley can make except maybe KK.
Coached by Jen Rizzotti, Halley helped end an 8 year drought to bring home the 3X3 Gold Medal. this year.
Halley's talent easily passes the eye test showing why she was selected to play for Team USA.

HAILEY VAN LITH PUTS DEFENDER IN A BLENDER AS SHE AND CAMERON BRINK LEAD TEAM USA TO BREAK GOLD MEDAL DROUGHT​

Hailey Van Lith Puts Defender In Blender En Route To USA Gold Medal

Hailey Van Lith and Cameron Brink led Team USA to its first gold medal in the 3X3 World Cup since 2014. They were both on fire!

www.outkick.com

Not a single pass to a teammate. Selfish?

 

[SJF]

90 FT’s for Nika is concerning. Last season at times the offense looked bogged down and seemed to only be and Lou coming off multiple screens just to get open and against the really athletic teams this did not happen. There were way too many opportunities for Nika to keep her dribble and get to the bucket. This season with a healthy PB, , CD the D will face guard the wings giving Nika these opportunities. She has a mental block when it comes to being a threat at the rim. If this continues Geno will call on KK she will take the rock to the bucket.

 

[HuskyNan]

That one word sentence thing isn't any less dumb looking when you do it, Nan. So condescending. If there was a straight swap of the two (which was the question posed) Geno would find a PG. And again with stats compiled against the JV. Try to bury it in the wash if you want but one player here scores 20 points in the Sweet 16 while the other makes 7 TO's. And let's not get wrapped around the axle here. The OP tried to make the case using fun with numbers that Nika is a superior offensive player. Totally ridiculous yet those pushing back are getting the stick. Nika has played 6 NCAA games past the first weekend. In each game, she has scored just 1 basket and yet the OP is saying she's a better offensive player. And it's not that I'm killing Nika, she is who she is. I'm critical of those who pump these players up into something they are not. Who had more fire and heart than Molly Bent? Nobody, from what I read here on the Boneyard for years. So if fire is that important, why didn't she get more run? Because she wasn't good enough.

My point is that swapping a point guard for a shooting guard makes no sense since they have different skill sets and different roles. A better question would have been “would you have swapped Lou Lopez for Hailey?”. Speaking for myself, the answer is “Hell no”. Lou is a far better shooter

As I said earlier, Hailey would not have scored almost 20 ppg if she had an Aaliyah and Azzi (not to mention Dorka) on her team.

 

[Bone Dog]

As I said earlier, Hailey would not have scored almost 20 ppg if she had an Aaliyah and Azzi (not to mention Dorka) on her team.

Well said. It’s really difficult to average anywhere near 20 pts/g on UConn. The points are much too broadly distributed for that and it’s often a different player who steps up from one game to the next.

A sign of this is when Paige or Azzi have scored 30+. It’s usually taken an extreme circumstance. Even getting those two to take enough shots to approach 30 on a hot shooting night is quite a chore. I suspect this is why Azzi tends to go off in the 3rd quarter. She takes in the situation at halftime, refocuses, and then does whatever is necessary. Look at the Iowa game or the Baylor game for examples. Or for Paige, that SC game freshman year when she took over the 4th quarter and OT. Those games are exceptions, not the norm.

Of course, this coming March I suspect every game may feel like an exception for Paige and Azzi.

 

[Waquoit]

My point is that swapping a point guard for a shooting guard makes no sense since they have different skill sets and different roles. A better question would have been “would you have swapped Lou Lopez for Hailey?”. Speaking for myself, the answer is “Hell no”. Lou is a far better shooter

As I said earlier, Hailey would not have scored almost 20 ppg if she had an Aaliyah and Azzi (not to mention Dorka) on her team.

I got your point and still don't agree. Van Lith is so much the superior player that "roles" and "skill sets" are less important. The trend is to positionless BB and last year's team needed scoring. And as far as your "better question" goes, who cares? I was responding to another poster who asked about the swap. And I'm not sure she wouldn't score 20 in the big game, Aaliyah and Azzi weren't any good that last game. But back to the OP, who do you think is the better offensive player? Van Lith or Nika?

 

[Bone Dog]

I got your point and still don't agree. Van Lith is so much the superior player that "roles" and "skill sets" are less important. The trend is to positionless BB and last year's team needed scoring. And as far as your "better question" goes, who cares? I was responding to another poster who asked about the swap. And I'm not sure she wouldn't score 20 in the big game, Aaliyah and Azzi weren't any good that last game. But back to the OP, who do you think is the better offensive player? Van Lith or Nika?

I have no interest in the question whether Hailey is better offensively, whether it's yours or the other poster's. It's too broad and abstract. Does it refer to playing 1v1 or 3v3, or are we talking full D1 5v5 basketball?

Would she fit Geno's offense? That's a better question.

You bring up positionless offense to suggest an answer. Sure. that's worth considering, but Hailey is not a positionless player. He skill set is currently suited to one thing: sg. Maybe she can develop pg skills, maybe not. We'll see. But if you try to slot Hailey into Geno's offense, she'll be like a fish out of water. We have quite a few perimeter shooters who can slash, who can rebound, who can block shots, who can initiate the break off a rebound -- that's a positionless player. Someone in the model of Evina. Sure, at 5'7" Hailey can try to defend in the paint (like Nika, Paige, Azzi, Caroline, Aubrey all do) and maybe grab a rebound. Watch the Louisville game and see how well that went for her. She shot poorly and with her 'swinging door' defense Caroline took her to the cleaners on O and D, repeatedly. Caroline! Not some little first step crossover dribble speedster. Freshman Caroline. Positionless and switching 1-5 means she has to cover 'guards' like Caroline occasionally, or even often.

As for Hailey as a pg, one key task of a top flight pg is to shut down the opposing pg. Nika does that. Jen Rizotti did that. Sue did that. MoJeff did that. Paige and Azzi could do it, too, if asked, though we might not want to saddle them with that task. Dana Evans did that. Morris and Poole did that. Raven Johnson did it last year. I have never seen Hailey show any talent in this area.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

I got your point and still don't agree. Van Lith is so much the superior player that "roles" and "skill sets" are less important. The trend is to positionless BB and last year's team needed scoring. And as far as your "better question" goes, who cares? I was responding to another poster who asked about the swap. And I'm not sure she wouldn't score 20 in the big game, Aaliyah and Azzi weren't any good that last game. But back to the OP, who do you think is the better offensive player? Van Lith or Nika?

I’ll take 729 points against 256 points any day. Last year Nika had 3 games where she scored zero points, in one of those games she played 35min, in the other two she played 40min. She also several games where she scored 2, 3, or 4 points. Her high for the season was 16 points against St. John’s.

 

[The deacon]

How about scoring 729 points last year, averaging 19.7 ppg?

I don’t think that’s necessarily true at all! I’m not sure where this image of Hailey Van Lith as a ”difference maker” is coming from but I’m not seeing it! She is a small, feisty, poor to average passing, average handling, volume shooting (41 & 30%) guard. Her defense isn’t even in the conversation with Nika’s, and although I respect her inner drive and will to win, I’m not at all sure that she would have fit here at UConn! Nika is simply a better fit for what Geno wants to do.

Cuango, I agree with most of your points, but on this one, we differ. CONN78SEJ brings a valid point about her Hailey Van Lith's scoring average. Even though Hailey is a volume shooter, she does make a difference and has been clutch many times for Walz' team.

Some here don't think much of the ACC, but Hailey Van Lith was twice a first-team All-ACC player. Obviously some folks think more of her than plenty of BYers.

That said, I wouldn't want her on the Huskies because what she brings to the court this coming season's UConn team has others (barring injury) who do it as well or better, and with more 'team concept' in mind.

 

[hoophuskee]

90 FT’s for Nika is concerning. Last season at times the offense looked bogged down and seemed to only be and Lou coming off multiple screens just to get open and against the really athletic teams this did not happen. There were way too many opportunities for Nika to keep her dribble and get to the bucket. This season with a healthy PB, , CD the D will face guard the wings giving Nika these opportunities. She has a mental block when it comes to being a threat at the rim. If this continues Geno will call on KK she will take the rock to the bucket.

I disagree with the entire context of this.

Last year before Azzi got hurt, there was no issue with Azzi or Lou getting off shots. There was no issue because you can't face-guard two perimeter players effectively in a motion offense while also having to defend an All-American like Edwards. Or maybe one team can do it? And if there is one team- then maybe she doesn't play much in that 1 game. You have to beat all the other teams.

Anyhow if Texas, Duke and Iowa couldn't do it lats year when UCONN was fully healthy with two perimeter players, I highly doubt it can be done in which you are also shutting down Edwards. In fact, per the link below last year Iowa used a triangle-and-tow designed to limit both Azzi and Lou at about 3:10 in the 3rd quarter- they firs tried it. Azzi immediately hit a 3, Then Lou immediately hit a 2 next play then Edwards immediately hit a 2 the next play. Then the next play Azzi drove inside despite the triangle and 2 scored on layup.

If UCONN is running their offense and in the motion setting picks, it would take an extra special team to be able to constantly impact getting Paige/Azzi/Edwards the ball in scoring position considering how well they all pass and the ability to go backdoor because the lane would be wide open just like it was early last year and not as much ta the end of last year.

 

[Zarathustra]

I’ll take 729 points against 256 points any day. Last year Nika had 3 games where she scored zero points, in one of those games she played 35min, in the other two she played 40min. She also several games where she scored 2, 3, or 4 points. Her high for the season was 16 points against St. John’s.

More important... did UCONN "win" those games???

 

[The CDR-Ret]

I disagree with the entire context of this.

Last year before Azzi got hurt, there was no issue with Azzi or Lou getting off shots. There was no issue because you can't face-guard two perimeter players effectively in a motion offense while also having to defend an All-American like Edwards. Or maybe one team can do it? And if there is one team- then maybe she doesn't play much in that 1 game. You have to beat all the other teams.

Anyhow if Texas, Duke and Iowa couldn't do it lats year when UCONN was fully healthy with two perimeter players, I highly doubt it can be done in which you are also shutting down Edwards. In fact, per the link below last year Iowa used a triangle-and-tow designed to limit both Azzi and Lou at about 3:10 in the 3rd quarter- they firs tried it. Azzi immediately hit a 3, Then Lou immediately hit a 2 next play then Edwards immediately hit a 2 the next play. Then the next play Azzi drove inside despite the triangle and 2 scored on layup.

If UCONN is running their offense and in the motion setting picks, it would take an extra special team to be able to constantly impact getting Paige/Azzi/Edwards the ball in scoring position considering how well they all pass and the ability to go backdoor because the lane would be wide open just like it was early last year and not as much ta the end of last year.

How Nika shutdown C Clark for most of the second half was amazing, as UCONN went down by four to go up by double digits before C Clark started shooting from 6 feet beyond the arc...

 

[oldhusky]

Much of the debate here regarding Hailey involves her abilities as a PG. I have my doubts about her abilities there, but she hasn't really been asked to fill that role in the past, but this year could be different. She will probably get her opportunities there and LSU could be a much better team if that experiment is a success. She also has quite a bit riding on this season regarding her draft status.

If she can play the point her status shoots up a great deal because as a 5-7 SG her upside is limited. She and Kim may welcome this challenge I don't know but it is one of the big questions about the upcoming season.

Nika's role should by contrast stay the same but probably in somewhat reduced minutes.

 

[npignatjr]

I’ll take 729 points against 256 points any day. Last year Nika had 3 games where she scored zero points, in one of those games she played 35min, in the other two she played 40min. She also several games where she scored 2, 3, or 4 points. Her high for the season was 16 points against St. John’s.

There were also few she didn't score at all. The they lost only one of those games, sadly it was against Ohio State.

 

[hoophuskee]

The scoreboard never changes with a steal, a tipped pass, causing the person you’re guarding to travel or throw the ball away. Only putting the ball in the hoop does.

You might as well be knocking Deniis Rodman. C'mon.

While scoring is most imprtant there are such things as "fit." There was a reason that the Chicago Bulls went after such a nutjob who could care less if he scored . . .

And it had nothing to do with Rodman's scoring.

 

[oldhusky]

You might as well be knocking Deniis Rodman. C'mon.

While scoring is most imprtant there are such things as "fit." There was a reason that the Chicago Bulls went after such a nutjob who could care less if he scored . . .

And it had nothing to do with Rodman's scoring.

Before a shot it is quite different, but once a Bulls player from those teams released a shot, the best offensive player on the court for that possession was Dennis Rodman by a huge margin. Why? Because the shot either goes in or it doesn't and none of the players can affect that after it is released. If it is good the possession is over with success, if not only way to score after a miss is by getting the offensive rebound, and Rodman was in a class by himself in that regard, often allowing Jordan, Pippin or another Bulls player and extra chance.

Statistical gurus have calculated what various statistics are worth, and steals, assists, rebounds, blocked shots, and made shots all matter on the positive side, just like personal fouls, turnovers and missed shots subtract from a player's value. The over/under on the length of a coaches career that thinks the only think that changes the scoreboard is who puts the ball in the basket would be very short indeed!

 

[Bald Husky]

Halley plays the same position as Azzi and Paige. Having her in the line-up would really muddle up the offence. What we do need is a PG who can get the ball to Azzi and Paige. Does anyone think Halley could and would be willing to do that? I don't think so. She is a SG and would have a tough time trying to get shots playing with Azzi and Paige. Having multiple shooters without a floor general makes no sense, and if we want Paige to score more Nika would give her the best opportunity to do so. This conversation is so stupid if you can't look at the line-up as a whole, and not the assets of individual players. This isn't an all-star team, just a team that right now has all the components to make a NC run. I don't know why some of you don't see that.

 

[Beemer]

The major difference between the two: Nika does not foul. Like, ever.

 

[Waquoit]

How Nika shutdown C Clark for most of the second half was amazing, as UCONN went down by four to go up by double digits before C Clark started shooting from 6 feet beyond the arc...

Yes, but the issue on the table is whether she is a better offensive player than Haley Van Lith. What do you think?

 

[HuskyNan]

So, I looked at a game by game analysis for Hailey. I do not mean to discredit or demean her in any way, incidentally. Yes, she scored a lot of points but as @BobbyJ and others have pointed out, she’s a volume shooter, which appears to be what Walz wanted. However, I’m just imagining the chat room if someone on UConn’s team shot 2-11. It makes my head hurt.

FG% of 42% and up is highlighted in green, below is in red. The yellow highlighted teams were ranked at year’s end.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Yes, but the issue on the table is whether she is a better offensive player than Haley Van Lith. What do you think?

I think the issue goes beyond that. The question should be which player is more likely to pass up an open shot? The answer to that clearly is Nika. Another question concerning these two players is which one tries to pass it first or look for an open shot first? Clearly Nika will invariably try to pass it first rather than shoot it. If the defense is expecting that, which was what Ohio State was doing in that UConn loss, they have a huge advantage. It’s almost like 4 on 5.

 

[Bald Husky]

The major difference between the two: Nika does not foul. Like, ever.

If you were being sarcastic, you are beating a dead horse. Last year she only fouled out of 1 game I believe, and that was an intentional foul against Maryland to put them on the line. That is a great accomplishment since she played between 36 and 40 minutes every game. She is not a foul maven anymore, and anyone who doesn't realize that is just looking for controversy.

 

[Bone Dog]

So, I looked at a game by game analysis for Hailey. I do not mean to discredit or demean her in any way, incidentally. Yes, she scored a lot of points but as @BobbyJ and others have pointed out, she’s a volume shooter, which appears to be what Walz wanted. However, I’m just imagining the chat room if someone on UConn’s team shot 2-11. It makes my head hurt.

FG% of 42% and up is highlighted in green, below is in red. The yellow highlighted teams were ranked at year’s end.

View attachment 91983

Excellent chart, @HuskyNan. It shows why many of us often suspect, that the way stars perform against ranked teams is often quite disappointing.