UConn stats....Nika vs Hailey Van Lith...

[tchalla1]

The lack of respect for Nika's offensive capabilities, by some on this board, is puzzling. So here are some stats to answer the question, who is a better offensive player, Nika or Hailey Van Lith?

1. Games - Each has played 3 years of college basketball. Hailey has been in 101 games, all as a starter. Nika has appeared in 92 games, 70 as a starter.
2. 3 point shooting - Van Lith has taken 451 threes, made 33.7% of those shots. Nika has tried 251 shots from outside the arc, made 34.3%. Nika is a better 3 point shooter.
3. 2 point shots - Van Lith has taken 882 two pt shots and made 46.5% of them. Nika tried 174 two pt shots and 50.6% went in. Nika is a better two point shooter.
4. Assists - Nika has 433 career assists vs Hailey's total of 257. Nika actually has more assists (433) than field goal attempts (425). Nika is better at assisting.
5. Points - Van Lith has scored 1,533 points in her 3 years on 1,333 shots attempts & 326 free throw tries. Her NISE (Naples Index of Scoring Efficiency) is .924 (1,533 pts divided by 1659 scoring chances). Nika has a NISE of .961 (495 points divided by 515 scoring chances). Nika has a better NISE.
6. Free throws - Hailey Van Lith gets fouled way more often, 346 foul shots vs 90 for Nika. She also makes a better %, 85% vs 67.8% for Nika. Hailey Van Lith is a better free throw shooter.
7. Turnovers - Hailey has 260 turnovers (vs 257 assists) and Nika has 222 turnovers (vs 433 assists). Nika has a much better assist/turnover ratio.

So, statistically, Nika is a better offensive player than Hailey Van Lith. Wow, who knew??
Thoughts?
Go Huskies..!!

Good info, but with your very disproportionate sample sizes on the 2-pt and 3 pt attempts, I 'm afraid you have rather skewed data. this does NOT show that Nika is a better 3-point shooter when Hailey Van Lith has taken 200 more 3 pointers and shoots only 1 percent less. On 2-pointers, Hailey Van Lith has made 882 attempts while Nika has only taken 174. Your comparisons are not very valid. What it shows is that Hailey Van Lith is a scorer and Nika is a point guard who looks to assist more than shoot.

 

[Cuango]

I love Nika. I defended her two years ago when there were so many people here criticizing her. I was very happy to see the big jump she made last year, and I think she can get even better this year. I want her to be the starting PG. I like who she is as a person.

Still, because I haven’t been 100 percent in agreement with the most enthusiastic Nika fans, I have been accused of being anti-Nika by some people. The reaction has been almost cult like. And as a result, I have been « ignored » by at least two people.

Maybe it’s great to ignore people, to not read viewpoints contrary to one’s own. The tactic, sadly, works. I am now contributing less, and I no longer read the BY every day.

Hang in there! Nil desperandum carburundum illegitami-Don’t let the b******* get you down! (disputed latin phrasing for you latin snobs)
This forum belongs to all Husky fans and that most definitely includes you! As long as Nan stays out of it I urge you to not let opinionated, rude, or even perceived personal attacks deter you from participating in what is (to me) a greatly appreciated means to stay somewhat involved with my favorite team during the off-season and a daily necessity during the season!
The Nika cult can be annoying, as it seems there is no middle ground for them, but really they are just like the rest of us, only more so! I too have felt their wrath on more than one occasion but I know that, believing the starting five would be better with a healthy Caroline over Nika does not signify disrespect or dislike for Nika! Thus their hysterical accusations
of “Nika hating” don’t faze me at all!
Just let all that stuff slide off your back (think duck) and jump back in with the rest of us disagreeing, arguing, defensive, sometimes ludicrous Husky fans! Your opinions are equal to anyone else‘s! Don’t let occasional passionate arguments keep you from doing something you presumably once enjoyed. That is, after all, one of the reasons the Boneyard exists.

 

[Zarathustra]

Hang in there! Nil desperandum carburundum illegitami-Don’t let the b******* get you down! (disputed latin phrasing for you latin snobs)
This forum belongs to all Husky fans and that most definitely includes you! As long as Nan stays out of it I urge you to not let opinionated, rude, or even perceived personal attacks deter you from participating in what is (to me) a greatly appreciated means to stay somewhat involved with my favorite team during the off-season and a daily necessity during the season!
The Nika cult can be annoying, as it seems there is no middle ground for them, but really they are just like the rest of us, only more so! I too have felt their wrath on more than one occasion but I know that, believing the starting five would be better with a healthy Caroline over Nika does not signify disrespect or dislike for Nika! Thus their hysterical accusations
of “Nika hating” don’t faze me at all!
Just let all that stuff slide off your back (think duck) and jump back in with the rest of us disagreeing, arguing, defensive, sometimes ludicrous Husky fans! Your opinions are equal to anyone else‘s! Don’t let occasional passionate arguments keep you from doing something you presumably once enjoyed. That is, after all, one of the reasons the Boneyard exists.

Thanks for quoting one of my favorite Latin phrases! A shorter Latin Phrase is
"nil desperandum" or " never say die". The Yogi Berra version being " The game
ain't over until it's over." Let the discussion(s) continue "ad infinitum"!! ( without limit ).
Go Huskies!! Beat LSU..... That is a game that "might" clear the air ( of the value of
each player to her respective team.

 

[Majic Hands]

I love Nika. I defended her two years ago when there were so many people here criticizing her. I was very happy to see the big jump she made last year, and I think she can get even better this year. I want her to be the starting PG. I like who she is as a person.

Still, because I haven’t been 100 percent in agreement with the most enthusiastic Nika fans, I have been accused of being anti-Nika by some people. The reaction has been almost cult like. And as a result, I have been « ignored » by at least two people.

Maybe it’s great to ignore people, to not read viewpoints contrary to one’s own. The tactic, sadly, works. I am now contributing less, and I no longer read the BY every day.

Ballerfan

I don't know why a number of BY'er thought it would be a good idea to attack every aspect of Nika's game. Perhaps because she has the audacity to come to UConn as a PG in Paige's class? Maybe because she is a feisty young lady?

After many attempts of reasoning I decided my life is to short to deal with haters(a**ho**s).

The kids that come to UConn even if they don't get a lot of playing time are still some of the best ballers in the college game.

Geno's discussion this year expressing relief that Nika wasn't going to have to play as many minutes and referenced that by minutes Nika played more games last year than any other PG.

People sing praise upon Geno's brilliant coaching and development of player but ignore the fact that that's the guy that's assigned Nika as the starting PG for nearly 3 years.

When people's view point is Nika should be coming of the bench after whoever the new freshman is, is asinine and needs no discussion.

Since I've been watching UConn there are fans of different players. Sometimes, I don't see what they see. I may think that another player could bring more to the game but I have not and will not say anything about who should get playing time over someone else.

I might express who I think the starter will be for good fun. But that's not what's happening with Nika.

I just put idiots on Ignore.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

I personally think Hailey Van Lith is a much better player than Nika and I am a big fan of Nika. But this thread has been an interesting read. I think if Hailey Van Lith was on the team the past three years they'd have two Natty's at least. I must have a serious blind spot though cuz most on this board don't seem that high on Hailey Van Lith. But all I've seen her do is win, and produce in big moments.

I couldn’t agree more, Van Lith is a terrific player on both sides of the court. I also think this season will be difficult for Geno finding playing time for all these guards. Nika will get her minutes this year but I don’t think she’ll be starting every game. Paige, Azzi, Caroline, KK, Aubrey, Edwards, Shade………..

 

[nwhoopfan]

Responses are all over the place on this. The thing I thought of is, if you switched teams with Muhl and Van Lith the last 3 years, how much different outcome for each team would you expect? Specifically, do you think Louisville would've had a better record?

Several have said it, they are totally different players with different roles, comparing them is pretty close to useless.

 

[Bone Dog]

The thing I thought of is, if you switched teams with Muhl and Van Lith the last 3 years, how much different outcome for each team would you expect? Specifically, do you think Louisville would've had a better record?

Walz doesn't coach the sort of defensive intensity Geno does. Nika would be a fish out of water in his system. Similarly, Hailey wouldn't make as much sense in Storrs as she did in Louisville, and not just because she'd be asked to play more defense than she's used to, but also because even our shooters are expected to be passers. Hailey will make better sense in Baton Rouge, though as I've said elsewhere her perimeter shooting will be a liability given the make up of that team.

 

[jdote33]

Responses are all over the place on this. The thing I thought of is, if you switched teams with Muhl and Van Lith the last 3 years, how much different outcome for each team would you expect? Specifically, do you think Louisville would've had a better record?

Several have said it, they are totally different players with different roles, comparing them is pretty close to useless.

Its really interesting. I think Nika is a very good point guard, great defensive player. I'm a UConn fan so wouldn't trade her for anybody. She's embraced CT and is the heartbeat of the team. Nonetheless I think Hailey Van Lith is the better player. I said with Hailey Van Lith uconn would have at least 2 championships. Paige freshman year they lose by single digits to an AZ team in the final four because when CW went to the bench they didn't have much offense. 22' they lose in the championship game, mostly because of rebounding but also cuz Azzi was sick and really wasn't herself that game. Give Hailey Azzi's minutes in that game and idk. Then finally last year, I just have a hard time believing a team is stopping Azzi, Lou, and Hailey Van Lith. Ohio State defense was great so maybe it doesn't matter. Obviously, i'm thinking of the problems Hailey Van Lith solves on the court, but she does seem to have a healthy ego, so locker room wise it may have caused friction. These recent UConn teams have been super close. Nonetheless, she's played with PB and Azzi before and would be playing with the GOAT coach.
On the flip side, I actually think Nika would've been very good at Louisville as well, if Walz would've given her the keys. Hailey Van Lith's first two years, the team was really good and loaded. As a freshman they had Dana Evans and Kianna Smith. Nika probably would've played well alongside Evans and allowed her to simply be a scorer. As a sophomore they had Emily Engstler, Chelsea Hall and Kianna Smith. I really liked Smith, she was basically a pro. I think Nika probably helps Engstler score even more. But do they make the final four in 22 with Nika? I would probably lean towards no, as they had to beat a really good Michigan team. Finally last year, I think Morgan Jones would've thrived more alongside Nika. However, overall I think the team would've been worse and would have struggled to make the elite 8.

 

[Waquoit]

Responses are all over the place on this. The thing I thought of is, if you switched teams with Muhl and Van Lith the last 3 years, how much different outcome for each team would you expect?

UConn would have made the Final Four last year, for starters.

 

[Cuango]

UConn would have made the Final Four last year, for starters.

I don’t think that’s necessarily true at all! I’m not sure where this image of Hailey Van Lith as a ”difference maker” is coming from but I’m not seeing it! She is a small, feisty, poor to average passing, average handling, volume shooting (41 & 30%) guard. Her defense isn’t even in the conversation with Nika’s, and although I respect her inner drive and will to win, I’m not at all sure that she would have fit here at UConn! Nika is simply a better fit for what Geno wants to do.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

I don’t think that’s necessarily true at all! I’m not sure where this image of Hailey Van Lith as a ”difference maker” is coming from but I’m not seeing it! She is a small, feisty, poor to average passing, average handling, volume shooting (41 & 30%) guard. Her defense isn’t even in the conversation with Nika’s, p, and although I respect her inner drive and will to win, I’m not at all sure that she would have fit here at UConn! Nika is simply a better fit for what Geno wants to do.

How about scoring 729 points last year, averaging 19.7 ppg?

 

[Cuango]

How about scoring 729 points last year, averaging 19.7 ppg?

Sure, she scored 19.7 as a low percentage, volume shooter at Louisville! That doesn’t make her a difference maker on a team like UConn. The conversation was about whether exchanging Nika for Hailey Van Lith would have put us in the FF last season. I don’t think so!

 

[ballerfan]

Hang in there! Nil desperandum carburundum illegitami-Don’t let the b******* get you down! (disputed latin phrasing for you latin snobs)
This forum belongs to all Husky fans and that most definitely includes you! As long as Nan stays out of it I urge you to not let opinionated, rude, or even perceived personal attacks deter you from participating in what is (to me) a greatly appreciated means to stay somewhat involved with my favorite team during the off-season and a daily necessity during the season!
The Nika cult can be annoying, as it seems there is no middle ground for them, but really they are just like the rest of us, only more so! I too have felt their wrath on more than one occasion but I know that, believing the starting five would be better with a healthy Caroline over Nika does not signify disrespect or dislike for Nika! Thus their hysterical accusations
of “Nika hating” don’t faze me at all!
Just let all that stuff slide off your back (think duck) and jump back in with the rest of us disagreeing, arguing, defensive, sometimes ludicrous Husky fans! Your opinions are equal to anyone else‘s! Don’t let occasional passionate arguments keep you from doing something you presumably once enjoyed. That is, after all, one of the reasons the Boneyard exists.

Thank you.

 

[Skeets]

And yet Muhl’s A/T ratio was 2.24 for the season (thanks to @Cedar for the correction), which compares favorably to all other point guards that year, including Clark. At the beginning of the year, against good competition but before the fatiguing year progressed, Muhl was flirting with a 4.0 A/T rate.

I recall distinctly, with the eye test, how Bird would make turnovers, usually against lesser opponents. I suspect if Bueckers was her contemporary for making comparisons a few of the same Muhl critics would be finding fault with Bird’s turnovers. Fatigue contributes to both bad decisions and bad execution.

The right decision can be made, but then not executed well. My eye test suggests it was waning execution, not decision making. Same for Bird when she got sloppy against lesser opponents. Bottom line is that Muhl manifests her lifelong training as a point guard in knowing when to pass and to whom, or when her taking the shot is the best option for the team. No one in the country has demonstrated better decision making except Bueckers, which means anyone else in the country would be drawing even more fire from the BY critics for their turnovers if she was one of ours.

Certainly fatigue makes a player more prone to turnovers. But what hardly ever gets talked about is the fatigue of the other 4 players on the court. Trying to pass the ball to 4 other players who are completely gassed and playing like they are knee deep in quick sand is worse than the passer herself being fatigued.

 

[HuskyNan]

UConn would have made the Final Four last year, for starters.

How would swapping the team’s only point guard for a worse defender help?

 

[DavidinNaples]

Responses are all over the place on this. The thing I thought of is, if you switched teams with Muhl and Van Lith the last 3 years, how much different outcome for each team would you expect? Specifically, do you think Louisville would've had a better record?

Several have said it, they are totally different players with different roles, comparing them is pretty close to useless.

“Comparing them is pretty close to useless.” Sorry to have wasted your time with an analysis that many found interesting. You seem not to understand what we do here at the Boneyard, but at least you used punctuation in your post.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Sure, she scored 19.7 as a low percentage, volume shooter at Louisville! That doesn’t make her a difference maker on a team like UConn. The conversation was about whether exchanging Nika for Hailey Van Lith would have put us in the FF last season. I don’t think so!

How about Van Lith scoring 500 more points last year than Nika did? How about Nika having 125 TO’s last year? For a player viewed as a defensive specialist and someone not known as a scorer that’s terrible stat to have. She basically had a TO for every basket she made, or put it another way one TO for every ten minutes she played last year.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

The Nika nay-sayers keep forgetting one important point in their trashing Nika, Geno loves what Nika brings to the court everyday in practice and games, and will continue to give her major minutes!
Geno and his coaching staff are the only opinions that matter! He loves her fire!

 

[sun]

Halley 's 19.7 average was greater than Azzi's averaqe of 15.0.
Do folks actually think that Nika is a better player than Azzi too?
That's what it seems like when folks say the Nika is better than Halley.
That would also mean that Nika iis better than Azzi which simply isn't true.
It's about being a better all around player.
There's more to the game than defense because a team needs to score points to win.
How many of Nika's assists could have been made by anyone else on the team able to make a routine pass?

 

[Waquoit]

How would swapping the team’s only point guard for a worse defender help?

UConn would gain 20 points from the switch. Probably fewer turnovers.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

IMO Hailey couldn't lower her "ego" to fit in with UCONN WBB!
Nika has NO ego!

 

[oldhusky]

Looking at this debate from a WNBA perspective I think both players have some significant question marks. Both are very good college players, but marginal pro prospects, they might make it, but a long WNBA career is far from certain, but both can play for pay when you include foreign leagues.

In Nika's case the limited scoring is obviously the issue, and it also could be a problem that she is pretty much a one position player. More and more the salary cap restraints encourage teams to spend their money on the top 8 players or so, with the remaining 3 or 4 getting minimum salaries. In that last tier you may be injury insurance, so the versatility to play multiple positions helps. Someone like Evina for example has versatility going for her, Nika not as much but she adds a potential role as a defensive stopper. There also would be no questions about her ability to assume a role player role, be a very good teammate, and her effort would never be questioned.

Hailey Van Lith has different issues. She is a SG in style in a PG body. Her potential value as a 5-7 WNBA SG is limited. She does not project at WNBA level on rebounding or defense at that position. This year is pretty critical for her. Because of their other talent on the wing she will probably be tried quite a bit at the point. I don't know how that will go, I have my doubts, but if it is a successful transition LSU will be terrific and Hailey Van Lith's pro prospects will take a major leap. Even if she is not a pure point, her goal might be to become a guard more like a poor man's Kelsey Plum who is also more SG than PG in a PG body. Teaming her with a big PG (Chelsey Gray) has allowed Plum to guard PG's on defense and play SG on offense, but she is good enough at the point to play there when Chelsey is resting.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

The Nika nay-sayers keep forgetting one important point in their trashing Nika, Geno loves what Nika brings to the court everyday in practice and games, and will continue to give her major minutes!
Geno and his coaching staff are the only opinions that matter! He loves her fire!

No one is trashing Nika. Her defensive skills are 2nd to none, but that doesn’t mean she rests on those laurels and neglects her offensive game, which she needs to do. She is constantly trying to improve her offensive and passing and ball handling skills, so let’s see how how she did during the off season in addressing that.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Halley 's 19.7 average was greater than Azzi's averaqe of 15.0.
Do folks actually think that Nika is a better player than Azzi too?
That's what it seems like when folks say the Nika is better than Halley.
That would also mean that Nika iis better than Azzi which simply isn't true.
It's about being a better all around player.
There's more to the game than defense because a team needs to score points to win.
How many of Nika's assists could have been made by anyone else on the team able to make a routine pass?

The scoreboard never changes with a steal, a tipped pass, causing the person you’re guarding to travel or throw the ball away. Only putting the ball in the hoop does.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

How would swapping the team’s only point guard for a worse defender help?

That’s like saying that Paige, who is ready to play this year, is not better running the point than Nika???? Come on.