How about scoring 729 points last year, averaging 19.7 ppg?
UConn stats....Nika vs Hailey Van Lith...
- Thread starter DavidinNaples
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Sure, she scored 19.7 as a low percentage, volume shooter at Louisville! That doesn’t make her a difference maker on a team like UConn. The conversation was about whether exchanging Nika for Hailey Van Lith would have put us in the FF last season. I don’t think so!
Thank you.Hang in there! Nil desperandum carburundum illegitami-Don’t let the b******* get you down! (disputed latin phrasing for you latin snobs)
This forum belongs to all Husky fans and that most definitely includes you! As long as Nan stays out of it I urge you to not let opinionated, rude, or even perceived personal attacks deter you from participating in what is (to me) a greatly appreciated means to stay somewhat involved with my favorite team during the off-season and a daily necessity during the season!
The Nika cult can be annoying, as it seems there is no middle ground for them, but really they are just like the rest of us, only more so! I too have felt their wrath on more than one occasion but I know that, believing the starting five would be better with a healthy Caroline over Nika does not signify disrespect or dislike for Nika! Thus their hysterical accusations
of “Nika hating” don’t faze me at all!
Just let all that stuff slide off your back (think duck) and jump back in with the rest of us disagreeing, arguing, defensive, sometimes ludicrous Husky fans! Your opinions are equal to anyone else‘s! Don’t let occasional passionate arguments keep you from doing something you presumably once enjoyed. That is, after all, one of the reasons the Boneyard exists.
Certainly fatigue makes a player more prone to turnovers. But what hardly ever gets talked about is the fatigue of the other 4 players on the court. Trying to pass the ball to 4 other players who are completely gassed and playing like they are knee deep in quick sand is worse than the passer herself being fatigued.
HuskyNan
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How would swapping the team’s only point guard for a worse defender help?
DavidinNaples
12 is way better than 3..!!
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“Comparing them is pretty close to useless.” Sorry to have wasted your time with an analysis that many found interesting. You seem not to understand what we do here at the Boneyard, but at least you used punctuation in your post.
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How about Van Lith scoring 500 more points last year than Nika did? How about Nika having 125 TO’s last year? For a player viewed as a defensive specialist and someone not known as a scorer that’s terrible stat to have. She basically had a TO for every basket she made, or put it another way one TO for every ten minutes she played last year.
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The Nika nay-sayers keep forgetting one important point in their trashing Nika, Geno loves what Nika brings to the court everyday in practice and games, and will continue to give her major minutes!
Geno and his coaching staff are the only opinions that matter! He loves her fire!
Geno and his coaching staff are the only opinions that matter! He loves her fire!
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Halley 's 19.7 average was greater than Azzi's averaqe of 15.0.
Do folks actually think that Nika is a better player than Azzi too?
That's what it seems like when folks say the Nika is better than Halley.
That would also mean that Nika iis better than Azzi which simply isn't true.
It's about being a better all around player.
There's more to the game than defense because a team needs to score points to win.
How many of Nika's assists could have been made by anyone else on the team able to make a routine pass?
Do folks actually think that Nika is a better player than Azzi too?
That's what it seems like when folks say the Nika is better than Halley.
That would also mean that Nika iis better than Azzi which simply isn't true.
It's about being a better all around player.
There's more to the game than defense because a team needs to score points to win.
How many of Nika's assists could have been made by anyone else on the team able to make a routine pass?
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Waquoit
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UConn would gain 20 points from the switch. Probably fewer turnovers.
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IMO Hailey couldn't lower her "ego" to fit in with UCONN WBB!
Nika has NO ego!
Nika has NO ego!
Looking at this debate from a WNBA perspective I think both players have some significant question marks. Both are very good college players, but marginal pro prospects, they might make it, but a long WNBA career is far from certain, but both can play for pay when you include foreign leagues.
In Nika's case the limited scoring is obviously the issue, and it also could be a problem that she is pretty much a one position player. More and more the salary cap restraints encourage teams to spend their money on the top 8 players or so, with the remaining 3 or 4 getting minimum salaries. In that last tier you may be injury insurance, so the versatility to play multiple positions helps. Someone like Evina for example has versatility going for her, Nika not as much but she adds a potential role as a defensive stopper. There also would be no questions about her ability to assume a role player role, be a very good teammate, and her effort would never be questioned.
Hailey Van Lith has different issues. She is a SG in style in a PG body. Her potential value as a 5-7 WNBA SG is limited. She does not project at WNBA level on rebounding or defense at that position. This year is pretty critical for her. Because of their other talent on the wing she will probably be tried quite a bit at the point. I don't know how that will go, I have my doubts, but if it is a successful transition LSU will be terrific and Hailey Van Lith's pro prospects will take a major leap. Even if she is not a pure point, her goal might be to become a guard more like a poor man's Kelsey Plum who is also more SG than PG in a PG body. Teaming her with a big PG (Chelsey Gray) has allowed Plum to guard PG's on defense and play SG on offense, but she is good enough at the point to play there when Chelsey is resting.
In Nika's case the limited scoring is obviously the issue, and it also could be a problem that she is pretty much a one position player. More and more the salary cap restraints encourage teams to spend their money on the top 8 players or so, with the remaining 3 or 4 getting minimum salaries. In that last tier you may be injury insurance, so the versatility to play multiple positions helps. Someone like Evina for example has versatility going for her, Nika not as much but she adds a potential role as a defensive stopper. There also would be no questions about her ability to assume a role player role, be a very good teammate, and her effort would never be questioned.
Hailey Van Lith has different issues. She is a SG in style in a PG body. Her potential value as a 5-7 WNBA SG is limited. She does not project at WNBA level on rebounding or defense at that position. This year is pretty critical for her. Because of their other talent on the wing she will probably be tried quite a bit at the point. I don't know how that will go, I have my doubts, but if it is a successful transition LSU will be terrific and Hailey Van Lith's pro prospects will take a major leap. Even if she is not a pure point, her goal might be to become a guard more like a poor man's Kelsey Plum who is also more SG than PG in a PG body. Teaming her with a big PG (Chelsey Gray) has allowed Plum to guard PG's on defense and play SG on offense, but she is good enough at the point to play there when Chelsey is resting.
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No one is trashing Nika. Her defensive skills are 2nd to none, but that doesn’t mean she rests on those laurels and neglects her offensive game, which she needs to do. She is constantly trying to improve her offensive and passing and ball handling skills, so let’s see how how she did during the off season in addressing that.
That’s like saying that Paige, who is ready to play this year, is not better running the point than Nika???? Come on.
HuskyNan
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Hailey. Is. Not. A. Point. Guard. She had 119 assists last season while Nika had 257 in roughly the same minutes. Hailey’s A/TO ratio is .88 meaning she had more turnover than assists. Nika’s was 2.24 so she had more than twice as many assists as turnovers
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What Geno wants from Nika is leadership and FIRE. And this is exactly what she gives him. When the team falters, it's often because they've lost that fire, they've slumped as a unit. Nika is who fixes that. She is one of the few players who breathes fire every minute she's on the floor. That she also gives assists, steals, rebounds, some buckets, and general defensive disruption to opposing teams -- all of that is a bonus on top of the main thing: FIRE.
I don't know of anyone else in D1 who gives that to her team. I hope KK and Ashlynn learn it from her.
I don't know of anyone else in D1 who gives that to her team. I hope KK and Ashlynn learn it from her.
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I really like Nika's game, and believe she is incredibly valuable to UConn. But this post, to me is an exercise is proving the old adage that you can get statistics to do whatever you want them to. Let's face it: If you can stand a volume shooter, Van Lith is an monster on offense. Nika is not, and unless she really ups her offensive game this year, she won't ever be. And on this UConn team, where there are so many options on offense, that's not likely to happen, anyway.
But maybe that's the point. On this UConn team., Nika is so valuable because she fits in so well and can providde the assists and defense that keep the team moving.
But maybe that's the point. On this UConn team., Nika is so valuable because she fits in so well and can providde the assists and defense that keep the team moving.
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HuskyNan
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What are you talking about? The discussion was talking about swapping Nika for Hailey.
Waquoit
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That one word sentence thing isn't any less dumb looking when you do it, Nan. So condescending. If there was a straight swap of the two (which was the question posed) Geno would find a PG. And again with stats compiled against the JV. Try to bury it in the wash if you want but one player here scores 20 points in the Sweet 16 while the other makes 7 TO's. And let's not get wrapped around the axle here. The OP tried to make the case using fun with numbers that Nika is a superior offensive player. Totally ridiculous yet those pushing back are getting the stick. Nika has played 6 NCAA games past the first weekend. In each game, she has scored just 1 basket and yet the OP is saying she's a better offensive player. And it's not that I'm killing Nika, she is who she is. I'm critical of those who pump these players up into something they are not. Who had more fire and heart than Molly Bent? Nobody, from what I read here on the Boneyard for years. So if fire is that important, why didn't she get more run? Because she wasn't good enough.
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I would choose Halley over Nika in a heartbeat.
UConn has other point guards, but no one can come close to the moves that Halley can make except maybe KK.
Coached by Jen Rizzotti, Halley helped end an 8 year drought to bring home the 3X3 Gold Medal. this year.
Halley's talent easily passes the eye test showing why she was selected to play for Team USA.
www.outkick.com
UConn has other point guards, but no one can come close to the moves that Halley can make except maybe KK.
Coached by Jen Rizzotti, Halley helped end an 8 year drought to bring home the 3X3 Gold Medal. this year.
Halley's talent easily passes the eye test showing why she was selected to play for Team USA.
HAILEY VAN LITH PUTS DEFENDER IN A BLENDER AS SHE AND CAMERON BRINK LEAD TEAM USA TO BREAK GOLD MEDAL DROUGHT
Hailey Van Lith Puts Defender In Blender En Route To USA Gold Medal
Hailey Van Lith and Cameron Brink led Team USA to its first gold medal in the 3X3 World Cup since 2014. They were both on fire!
www.outkick.com
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So you are saying swap anyone else from last year's roster to PG for Nika and they get 284 assists, 200 assists, 150 assists....? Seriously, give her her due. With her court vision she consistently got herself in great position to make passes to teammates right where they needed it. Paige is the only proven player on the current roster that can make a lot of those passes and no-one on last year's was even close. Do you think Nika would have set the Uconn record for minutes/game if Geno felt anyone else on the roster can do what she did? She has never claimed to be a star player and yet critiques of her often contrast her against a player that is. She is not a big time scorer which has never been her intent, her emphasis and value is in making her team much better with her than without her. As Geno has said, 'he's only had a handful of players like her', 'you want her on the floor because she makes her team better', 'she is unique', .....
As you say 'there's more to the game than defense because a team needs to score points to win', and yet you follow that with discounting Nika's (record setting) assist ability, why not throw in her leadership skills, her constant chatter positioning her teammates, her ability to push pace, her tenacity, drive and stamina and the fact she actually had the highest percentage of point production shares (combining assists and point totals) of anyone on the roster last season? Just a thought, maybe if we add in those we get a better picture of who she is as an all around player. Forget about comparisons to Hailey or anyone else, the real question should be the value she has to her team. IMO, last season, she was as valuable to her team as any player was to there's in wcbb. This season her minutes will certainly drop but I expect her to remain a significant piece of a (hopefully) championship roster.
Golden Husky
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NISE going, David.
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Every player has their good points & bad points.
When I compare all of Hailey's good points to all of Nika's good points, I find that Hailey's good points far outweigh Nika's good points.
And when I compare all of Nika's bad points to Hailey's, I find that Nika's bad points far outweigh all of Hailey's bad points.
It's simply my opinion & no one else needs to agree with it.
You're entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine.
You won't change my opinion & I won't change yours.
I think that both players are very talented but that Hailey has more overall BB talent than Nika.
If Jen Rizzotti, Geno & Paige were asked which player they would rather have on their team then each may give a different answer.
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Bald Husky
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I would choose Halley over Nika in a heartbeat.
UConn has other point guards, but no one can come close to the moves that Halley can make except maybe KK.
Coached by Jen Rizzotti, Halley helped end an 8 year drought to bring home the 3X3 Gold Medal. this year.
Halley's talent easily passes the eye test showing why she was selected to play for Team USA.
HAILEY VAN LITH PUTS DEFENDER IN A BLENDER AS SHE AND CAMERON BRINK LEAD TEAM USA TO BREAK GOLD MEDAL DROUGHT
Hailey Van Lith Puts Defender In Blender En Route To USA Gold Medal
Hailey Van Lith and Cameron Brink led Team USA to its first gold medal in the 3X3 World Cup since 2014. They were both on fire!
We don't need a player like Halley since we have about three of them already, but we do need a player with a game that Nika provides. Why do you want 4 or 5 players that do the same thing? Nika provides aspects of the game that are not big assets of most of our other players, and she provides that in a most awesome way. Let the other players shoot, Nika will provide the defense, the spark, and a player who enjoys setting up her teammates. I know you don't appreciate Nikas game, but how about looking at the team as a whole, and not individual parts.
diggerfoot
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Lol. So UConn would average 20 points a game more with Hailey Van Lith, which would have made them by far the most potent offense in the country, leaving Iowa in the dust? Perhaps you need to rethink that bold claim.
As for fewer turnovers, it depends whether you mean by Hailey Van Lith or the team as a whole. Hailey Van Lith not being a pure PG would handle the ball less than Muhl did last year so, yes, would likely have fewer turnovers. But Hailey Van Lith and Duscharme average more turnovers per minute, while Fudd is not far behind, so the team as a whole would have more turnovers per game if the switch was made.
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I'm pretty sure Uconn has two other guards whose 'moves' are even better than what Hailey can do, even three if you count KK. Didn't we just spend a summer hearing arguments about how Paige was the best pg on the team? And how many BYers have claimed that Azzi was the second best pg on the team. Apart from how unpersuasive those arguments were, there is just no calculus where Hailey is a reasonable choice for a UConn team that has Paige Azzi and KK on it.
Don't get me wrong, I like Hailey's game. She's feisty and clever and can contribute to most teams... if she's used in the right way. And that way is not as pg. There's just no way I'm sitting Paige or Azzi down for her, and if those two are available to play, then Nika is a better choice for pg since Hailey's skill set would be redundant and Nika's wouldn't be. You can find the videos of their HS FIBA games and see the same result play out -- Hailey was second string on those teams behind Paige and Azzi. The basic facts haven't changed in the interim. Or you can consider the Louisville game from 2 years ago. We lost without Paige or Azzi or Nika, but Caroline outplayed Hailey with 24 pts on 10-20 shooting vs 16 points on 5-14 shooting. A freshman did that. These are the facts plain to see.
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Very few people are saying that Nika is better than Hailey Van Lith And those that are are simply wrong! What most people are saying is that exchanging those two players is not as simple as simply designating one player as “better” than the other. Nika is a point guard, Hailey Van Lith is not! Nika produced lots of assists, Hailey Van Lith, not so much.
UConn needed a point guard, not a small volume shooter with inferior defensive skills. UConn is not a destination for short volume shooters with low shooting percentages and poor defensive skills. I actually admire Hailey Van Lith! She has maximized her ability and made herself a star. I just don’t think she’s a good fit at UConn and certainly not as a replacement for what was then, our only experienced PG.
While I have serious doubts as to whether she can even be an effective point guard, I wish her all the best and hope she finishes fourth in the POY vote behind Paige, Aaliyah, and Azzi. (Not necessarily in that order)
Finally, as you rightly say, simply using scoring average to determine who is the best player just doesn’t get the job done. Sure, Hailey Van Lith is a better player in some ways but the material point is that she is not better for UConn than Nika, especially considering the circumstances we faced last season.
With all due respect Nan, I’ll take points over assists any day, and on that score. A point guard has to be a threat to score every time down the floor, if she isn’t then doubling the ball is so much easier for the defense. That’s exactly what happened in the embarrassing loss to Ohio State.
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