UConn stats....Nika vs Hailey Van Lith... | Page 5 | The Boneyard

UConn stats....Nika vs Hailey Van Lith...

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HuskyNan

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That one word sentence thing isn't any less dumb looking when you do it, Nan. So condescending. If there was a straight swap of the two (which was the question posed) Geno would find a PG. And again with stats compiled against the JV. Try to bury it in the wash if you want but one player here scores 20 points in the Sweet 16 while the other makes 7 TO's. And let's not get wrapped around the axle here. The OP tried to make the case using fun with numbers that Nika is a superior offensive player. Totally ridiculous yet those pushing back are getting the stick. Nika has played 6 NCAA games past the first weekend. In each game, she has scored just 1 basket and yet the OP is saying she's a better offensive player. And it's not that I'm killing Nika, she is who she is. I'm critical of those who pump these players up into something they are not. Who had more fire and heart than Molly Bent? Nobody, from what I read here on the Boneyard for years. So if fire is that important, why didn't she get more run? Because she wasn't good enough.
My point is that swapping a point guard for a shooting guard makes no sense since they have different skill sets and different roles. A better question would have been “would you have swapped Lou Lopez for Hailey?”. Speaking for myself, the answer is “Hell no”. Lou is a far better shooter

As I said earlier, Hailey would not have scored almost 20 ppg if she had an Aaliyah and Azzi (not to mention Dorka) on her team.
 
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As I said earlier, Hailey would not have scored almost 20 ppg if she had an Aaliyah and Azzi (not to mention Dorka) on her team.
Well said. It’s really difficult to average anywhere near 20 pts/g on UConn. The points are much too broadly distributed for that and it’s often a different player who steps up from one game to the next.

A sign of this is when Paige or Azzi have scored 30+. It’s usually taken an extreme circumstance. Even getting those two to take enough shots to approach 30 on a hot shooting night is quite a chore. I suspect this is why Azzi tends to go off in the 3rd quarter. She takes in the situation at halftime, refocuses, and then does whatever is necessary. Look at the Iowa game or the Baylor game for examples. Or for Paige, that SC game freshman year when she took over the 4th quarter and OT. Those games are exceptions, not the norm.

Of course, this coming March I suspect every game may feel like an exception for Paige and Azzi.
 

Waquoit

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My point is that swapping a point guard for a shooting guard makes no sense since they have different skill sets and different roles. A better question would have been “would you have swapped Lou Lopez for Hailey?”. Speaking for myself, the answer is “Hell no”. Lou is a far better shooter

As I said earlier, Hailey would not have scored almost 20 ppg if she had an Aaliyah and Azzi (not to mention Dorka) on her team.
I got your point and still don't agree. Van Lith is so much the superior player that "roles" and "skill sets" are less important. The trend is to positionless BB and last year's team needed scoring. And as far as your "better question" goes, who cares? I was responding to another poster who asked about the swap. And I'm not sure she wouldn't score 20 in the big game, Aaliyah and Azzi weren't any good that last game. But back to the OP, who do you think is the better offensive player? Van Lith or Nika?
 
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I got your point and still don't agree. Van Lith is so much the superior player that "roles" and "skill sets" are less important. The trend is to positionless BB and last year's team needed scoring. And as far as your "better question" goes, who cares? I was responding to another poster who asked about the swap. And I'm not sure she wouldn't score 20 in the big game, Aaliyah and Azzi weren't any good that last game. But back to the OP, who do you think is the better offensive player? Van Lith or Nika?
I have no interest in the question whether Hailey is better offensively, whether it's yours or the other poster's. It's too broad and abstract. Does it refer to playing 1v1 or 3v3, or are we talking full D1 5v5 basketball?

Would she fit Geno's offense? That's a better question.

You bring up positionless offense to suggest an answer. Sure. that's worth considering, but Hailey is not a positionless player. He skill set is currently suited to one thing: sg. Maybe she can develop pg skills, maybe not. We'll see. But if you try to slot Hailey into Geno's offense, she'll be like a fish out of water. We have quite a few perimeter shooters who can slash, who can rebound, who can block shots, who can initiate the break off a rebound -- that's a positionless player. Someone in the model of Evina. Sure, at 5'7" Hailey can try to defend in the paint (like Nika, Paige, Azzi, Caroline, Aubrey all do) and maybe grab a rebound. Watch the Louisville game and see how well that went for her. She shot poorly and with her 'swinging door' defense Caroline took her to the cleaners on O and D, repeatedly. Caroline! Not some little first step crossover dribble speedster. Freshman Caroline. Positionless and switching 1-5 means she has to cover 'guards' like Caroline occasionally, or even often.

As for Hailey as a pg, one key task of a top flight pg is to shut down the opposing pg. Nika does that. Jen Rizotti did that. Sue did that. MoJeff did that. Paige and Azzi could do it, too, if asked, though we might not want to saddle them with that task. Dana Evans did that. Morris and Poole did that. Raven Johnson did it last year. I have never seen Hailey show any talent in this area.
 
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I got your point and still don't agree. Van Lith is so much the superior player that "roles" and "skill sets" are less important. The trend is to positionless BB and last year's team needed scoring. And as far as your "better question" goes, who cares? I was responding to another poster who asked about the swap. And I'm not sure she wouldn't score 20 in the big game, Aaliyah and Azzi weren't any good that last game. But back to the OP, who do you think is the better offensive player? Van Lith or Nika?
I’ll take 729 points against 256 points any day. Last year Nika had 3 games where she scored zero points, in one of those games she played 35min, in the other two she played 40min. She also several games where she scored 2, 3, or 4 points. Her high for the season was 16 points against St. John’s.
 
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How about scoring 729 points last year, averaging 19.7 ppg?
I don’t think that’s necessarily true at all! I’m not sure where this image of Hailey Van Lith as a ”difference maker” is coming from but I’m not seeing it! She is a small, feisty, poor to average passing, average handling, volume shooting (41 & 30%) guard. Her defense isn’t even in the conversation with Nika’s, and although I respect her inner drive and will to win, I’m not at all sure that she would have fit here at UConn! Nika is simply a better fit for what Geno wants to do.
Cuango, I agree with most of your points, but on this one, we differ. CONN78SEJ brings a valid point about her Hailey Van Lith's scoring average. Even though Hailey is a volume shooter, she does make a difference and has been clutch many times for Walz' team.

Some here don't think much of the ACC, but Hailey Van Lith was twice a first-team All-ACC player. Obviously some folks think more of her than plenty of BYers.

That said, I wouldn't want her on the Huskies because what she brings to the court this coming season's UConn team has others (barring injury) who do it as well or better, and with more 'team concept' in mind.
 
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I disagree with the entire context of this.

Last year before Azzi got hurt, there was no issue with Azzi or Lou getting off shots. There was no issue because you can't face-guard two perimeter players effectively in a motion offense while also having to defend an All-American like Edwards. Or maybe one team can do it? And if there is one team- then maybe she doesn't play much in that 1 game. You have to beat all the other teams.

Anyhow if Texas, Duke and Iowa couldn't do it lats year when UCONN was fully healthy with two perimeter players, I highly doubt it can be done in which you are also shutting down Edwards. In fact, per the link below last year Iowa used a triangle-and-tow designed to limit both Azzi and Lou at about 3:10 in the 3rd quarter- they firs tried it. Azzi immediately hit a 3, Then Lou immediately hit a 2 next play then Edwards immediately hit a 2 the next play. Then the next play Azzi drove inside despite the triangle and 2 scored on layup.

If UCONN is running their offense and in the motion setting picks, it would take an extra special team to be able to constantly impact getting Paige/Azzi/Edwards the ball in scoring position considering how well they all pass and the ability to go backdoor because the lane would be wide open just like it was early last year and not as much ta the end of last year.


 
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I’ll take 729 points against 256 points any day. Last year Nika had 3 games where she scored zero points, in one of those games she played 35min, in the other two she played 40min. She also several games where she scored 2, 3, or 4 points. Her high for the season was 16 points against St. John’s.
More important... did UCONN "win" those games???
 
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I disagree with the entire context of this.

Last year before Azzi got hurt, there was no issue with Azzi or Lou getting off shots. There was no issue because you can't face-guard two perimeter players effectively in a motion offense while also having to defend an All-American like Edwards. Or maybe one team can do it? And if there is one team- then maybe she doesn't play much in that 1 game. You have to beat all the other teams.

Anyhow if Texas, Duke and Iowa couldn't do it lats year when UCONN was fully healthy with two perimeter players, I highly doubt it can be done in which you are also shutting down Edwards. In fact, per the link below last year Iowa used a triangle-and-tow designed to limit both Azzi and Lou at about 3:10 in the 3rd quarter- they firs tried it. Azzi immediately hit a 3, Then Lou immediately hit a 2 next play then Edwards immediately hit a 2 the next play. Then the next play Azzi drove inside despite the triangle and 2 scored on layup.

If UCONN is running their offense and in the motion setting picks, it would take an extra special team to be able to constantly impact getting Paige/Azzi/Edwards the ball in scoring position considering how well they all pass and the ability to go backdoor because the lane would be wide open just like it was early last year and not as much ta the end of last year.



How Nika shutdown C Clark for most of the second half was amazing, as UCONN went down by four to go up by double digits before C Clark started shooting from 6 feet beyond the arc...
 
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Much of the debate here regarding Hailey involves her abilities as a PG. I have my doubts about her abilities there, but she hasn't really been asked to fill that role in the past, but this year could be different. She will probably get her opportunities there and LSU could be a much better team if that experiment is a success. She also has quite a bit riding on this season regarding her draft status.

If she can play the point her status shoots up a great deal because as a 5-7 SG her upside is limited. She and Kim may welcome this challenge I don't know but it is one of the big questions about the upcoming season.

Nika's role should by contrast stay the same but probably in somewhat reduced minutes.
 

npignatjr

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I’ll take 729 points against 256 points any day. Last year Nika had 3 games where she scored zero points, in one of those games she played 35min, in the other two she played 40min. She also several games where she scored 2, 3, or 4 points. Her high for the season was 16 points against St. John’s.
There were also few she didn't score at all. The they lost only one of those games, sadly it was against Ohio State.
 
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The scoreboard never changes with a steal, a tipped pass, causing the person you’re guarding to travel or throw the ball away. Only putting the ball in the hoop does.
You might as well be knocking Deniis Rodman. C'mon.

While scoring is most imprtant there are such things as "fit." There was a reason that the Chicago Bulls went after such a nutjob who could care less if he scored . . .

And it had nothing to do with Rodman's scoring.
 
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You might as well be knocking Deniis Rodman. C'mon.

While scoring is most imprtant there are such things as "fit." There was a reason that the Chicago Bulls went after such a nutjob who could care less if he scored . . .

And it had nothing to do with Rodman's scoring.
Before a shot it is quite different, but once a Bulls player from those teams released a shot, the best offensive player on the court for that possession was Dennis Rodman by a huge margin. Why? Because the shot either goes in or it doesn't and none of the players can affect that after it is released. If it is good the possession is over with success, if not only way to score after a miss is by getting the offensive rebound, and Rodman was in a class by himself in that regard, often allowing Jordan, Pippin or another Bulls player and extra chance.

Statistical gurus have calculated what various statistics are worth, and steals, assists, rebounds, blocked shots, and made shots all matter on the positive side, just like personal fouls, turnovers and missed shots subtract from a player's value. The over/under on the length of a coaches career that thinks the only think that changes the scoreboard is who puts the ball in the basket would be very short indeed!
 

Bald Husky

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Halley plays the same position as Azzi and Paige. Having her in the line-up would really muddle up the offence. What we do need is a PG who can get the ball to Azzi and Paige. Does anyone think Halley could and would be willing to do that? I don't think so. She is a SG and would have a tough time trying to get shots playing with Azzi and Paige. Having multiple shooters without a floor general makes no sense, and if we want Paige to score more Nika would give her the best opportunity to do so. This conversation is so stupid if you can't look at the line-up as a whole, and not the assets of individual players. This isn't an all-star team, just a team that right now has all the components to make a NC run. I don't know why some of you don't see that.
 

Waquoit

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How Nika shutdown C Clark for most of the second half was amazing, as UCONN went down by four to go up by double digits before C Clark started shooting from 6 feet beyond the arc...
Yes, but the issue on the table is whether she is a better offensive player than Haley Van Lith. What do you think?
 

HuskyNan

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So, I looked at a game by game analysis for Hailey. I do not mean to discredit or demean her in any way, incidentally. Yes, she scored a lot of points but as @BobbyJ and others have pointed out, she’s a volume shooter, which appears to be what Walz wanted. However, I’m just imagining the chat room if someone on UConn’s team shot 2-11. It makes my head hurt.

FG% of 42% and up is highlighted in green, below is in red. The yellow highlighted teams were ranked at year’s end.

601B926D-25B5-4E21-9640-63FABB0BD2B6.jpeg
 
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Yes, but the issue on the table is whether she is a better offensive player than Haley Van Lith. What do you think?
I think the issue goes beyond that. The question should be which player is more likely to pass up an open shot? The answer to that clearly is Nika. Another question concerning these two players is which one tries to pass it first or look for an open shot first? Clearly Nika will invariably try to pass it first rather than shoot it. If the defense is expecting that, which was what Ohio State was doing in that UConn loss, they have a huge advantage. It’s almost like 4 on 5.
 

Bald Husky

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The major difference between the two: Nika does not foul. Like, ever. ;)
If you were being sarcastic, you are beating a dead horse. Last year she only fouled out of 1 game I believe, and that was an intentional foul against Maryland to put them on the line. That is a great accomplishment since she played between 36 and 40 minutes every game. She is not a foul maven anymore, and anyone who doesn't realize that is just looking for controversy.
 
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So, I looked at a game by game analysis for Hailey. I do not mean to discredit or demean her in any way, incidentally. Yes, she scored a lot of points but as @BobbyJ and others have pointed out, she’s a volume shooter, which appears to be what Walz wanted. However, I’m just imagining the chat room if someone on UConn’s team shot 2-11. It makes my head hurt.

FG% of 42% and up is highlighted in green, below is in red. The yellow highlighted teams were ranked at year’s end.

View attachment 91983
Excellent chart, @HuskyNan. It shows why many of us often suspect, that the way stars perform against ranked teams is often quite disappointing.
 
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re:She "can" be an offensive threat and has chosen not to be.

Ummm. Thats a pretty big assumption, and imo, a wrong assumption. For the most part, Nika's shots tend to be wide-open looks and layups, since she's a facilitator and defenders play off her so they can "cheat" and double-team the bigger UConn scoring threats. Given that, her FG% is not that impressive. Take the Ohio State S16 game. Big game obviously. AE in foul trouble, Lou hurt. Nika needs to "step up" her scoring. Result - 3 points playing 40 minutes.

Nika has her strengths, so I'm not a Nika hater. However, being a scoring threat has not been one of them. To take her game to the next level offensively, she has to:

  1. Develop a mid-range game and knock down those shots consistently
  2. be more aggressive driving to the hoop for layups or fouls.
  3. Have a more consistent 3-point shot.
  4. Ultimately she needs to score in the low double-digits consistently (10 to 15 points) and have close to a 40% 3-point percentage to really pressure the defense.
 
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Yes, but the issue on the table is whether she is a better offensive player than Haley Van Lith. What do you think?
Aah Contrar: I am a defense first kind of guy, as the UCONN mantra is that the tough DEFENSE feeds the offense.

The issue is Nika vs. Hailey Van Lith Here is the title of the OP:

UConn stats....Nika vs Hailey Van Lith...​

...seems to me the defensive side of the equation tilts mightly towards Nika being the better Basketball PLAYER for UCONN.
 
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re:She "can" be an offensive threat and has chosen not to be.

Ummm. Thats a pretty big assumption, and imo, a wrong assumption. For the most part, Nika's shots tend to be wide-open looks and layups, since she's a facilitator and defenders play off her so they can "cheat" and double-team the bigger UConn scoring threats. Given that, her FG% is not that impressive. Take the Ohio State S16 game. Big game obviously. AE in foul trouble, Lou hurt. Nika needs to "step up" her scoring. Result - 3 points playing 40 minutes.

Nika has her strengths, so I'm not a Nika hater. However, being a scoring threat has not been one of them. To take her game to the next level offensively, she has to:

  1. Develop a mid-range game and knock down those shots consistently
  2. be more aggressive driving to the hoop for layups or fouls.
  3. Have a more consistent 3-point shot.
  4. Ultimately she needs to score in the low double-digits consistently (10 to 15 points) and have close to a 40% 3-point percentage to really pressure the defense.
I would key the Meatloaf music of "two out of three ain't bad" for my agreement and reply, as any 3 of your four would be an outstanding improvement to ensure 5 vs. 5 is required each time down the court. But with Geno's (tongue in cheek, imo..) statement of "get the ball to half-court and dish it to a scorer," I would say #2-4 would be in order, as I have not seen any attempt to be a mid-range scorer.

However, a "give & go" slashing to the basket could easily be part of Kiks's arsenal, along with going 2 for 3 from beyond the arc, as most of them would be wide open looks early in the year, and one slash for a score, plus two trips to the line for being mugged on slashes with 85%+ accuracy from the line would generate 11 - 12 points each outing.

Combine the above (New &) improved NIka with AE, PB, Azzi all averaging in the high teens and lower 20's, plus the other scorers contributions, UCONN will be good on the offensive end because of their extreme smothering defense on the MAIN EVENT end: getting stops & fast breaks [AE, AG, KK, PB, Azzi, Carol(ine), et. al. finishing! It will be a thing of beauty!

Go Huskies!
 
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If you were being sarcastic, you are beating a dead horse. Last year she only fouled out of 1 game I believe, and that was an intentional foul against Maryland to put them on the line. That is a great accomplishment since she played between 36 and 40 minutes every game. She is not a foul maven anymore, and anyone who doesn't realize that is just looking for controversy.

Did you not see the emoji? And btw I'm one of Nika's biggest fans.
 
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We didn’t lose to tOSU because Nika failed to score enough points. We lost because we didn’t get the ball across half court consistently enough, and when we did break the press we missed the open looks that followed. If you ask why that happened, again it wasn’t Nika who fell short. It was that the team was emotionally spent and lacked the resilience to respond to a challenging situation.
 
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