UConn stats....Nika vs Hailey Van Lith...

[wingsfan055]

I think the only beef that most people have with Nika's offense is that her lack of looking to score has been detrimental to the team and these stats all show it. She "can" be an offensive threat and has chosen not to be. This year it will not be an issue at all. Last season it was a major reason for the team falling short of where it should have been.

re:She "can" be an offensive threat and has chosen not to be.

Ummm. Thats a pretty big assumption, and imo, a wrong assumption. For the most part, Nika's shots tend to be wide-open looks and layups, since she's a facilitator and defenders play off her so they can "cheat" and double-team the bigger UConn scoring threats. Given that, her FG% is not that impressive. Take the Ohio State S16 game. Big game obviously. AE in foul trouble, Lou hurt. Nika needs to "step up" her scoring. Result - 3 points playing 40 minutes.

Nika has her strengths, so I'm not a Nika hater. However, being a scoring threat has not been one of them. To take her game to the next level offensively, she has to:

1. Develop a mid-range game and knock down those shots consistently
2. be more aggressive driving to the hoop for layups or fouls.
3. Have a more consistent 3-point shot.
4. Ultimately she needs to score in the low double-digits consistently (10 to 15 points) and have close to a 40% 3-point percentage to really pressure the defense.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

Yes, but the issue on the table is whether she is a better offensive player than Haley Van Lith. What do you think?

Aah Contrar: I am a defense first kind of guy, as the UCONN mantra is that the tough DEFENSE feeds the offense.

The issue is Nika vs. Hailey Van Lith Here is the title of the OP:

UConn stats....Nika vs Hailey Van Lith...​

...seems to me the defensive side of the equation tilts mightly towards Nika being the better Basketball PLAYER for UCONN.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

re:She "can" be an offensive threat and has chosen not to be.

Ummm. Thats a pretty big assumption, and imo, a wrong assumption. For the most part, Nika's shots tend to be wide-open looks and layups, since she's a facilitator and defenders play off her so they can "cheat" and double-team the bigger UConn scoring threats. Given that, her FG% is not that impressive. Take the Ohio State S16 game. Big game obviously. AE in foul trouble, Lou hurt. Nika needs to "step up" her scoring. Result - 3 points playing 40 minutes.

Nika has her strengths, so I'm not a Nika hater. However, being a scoring threat has not been one of them. To take her game to the next level offensively, she has to:

1. Develop a mid-range game and knock down those shots consistently
2. be more aggressive driving to the hoop for layups or fouls.
3. Have a more consistent 3-point shot.
4. Ultimately she needs to score in the low double-digits consistently (10 to 15 points) and have close to a 40% 3-point percentage to really pressure the defense.

I would key the Meatloaf music of "two out of three ain't bad" for my agreement and reply, as any 3 of your four would be an outstanding improvement to ensure 5 vs. 5 is required each time down the court. But with Geno's (tongue in cheek, imo..) statement of "get the ball to half-court and dish it to a scorer," I would say #2-4 would be in order, as I have not seen any attempt to be a mid-range scorer.

However, a "give & go" slashing to the basket could easily be part of Kiks's arsenal, along with going 2 for 3 from beyond the arc, as most of them would be wide open looks early in the year, and one slash for a score, plus two trips to the line for being mugged on slashes with 85%+ accuracy from the line would generate 11 - 12 points each outing.

Combine the above (New &) improved NIka with AE, PB, Azzi all averaging in the high teens and lower 20's, plus the other scorers contributions, UCONN will be good on the offensive end because of their extreme smothering defense on the MAIN EVENT end: getting stops & fast breaks [AE, AG, KK, PB, Azzi, Carol(ine), et. al. finishing! It will be a thing of beauty!

Go Huskies!

 

[Beemer]

If you were being sarcastic, you are beating a dead horse. Last year she only fouled out of 1 game I believe, and that was an intentional foul against Maryland to put them on the line. That is a great accomplishment since she played between 36 and 40 minutes every game. She is not a foul maven anymore, and anyone who doesn't realize that is just looking for controversy.

Did you not see the emoji? And btw I'm one of Nika's biggest fans.

 

[Bone Dog]

We didn’t lose to tOSU because Nika failed to score enough points. We lost because we didn’t get the ball across half court consistently enough, and when we did break the press we missed the open looks that followed. If you ask why that happened, again it wasn’t Nika who fell short. It was that the team was emotionally spent and lacked the resilience to respond to a challenging situation.

 

[sun]

We didn’t lose to tOSU because Nika failed to score enough points. We lost because we didn’t get the ball across half court consistently enough, and when we did break the press we missed the open looks that followed. If you ask why that happened, again it wasn’t Nika who fell short. It was that the team was emotionally spent and lacked the resilience to respond to a challenging situation.

Flashback.
After Paige got injured last year, some pre-season pundits ranked UConn as being #11 - #15 in the nation.
Most on the Boneyard didn't want to believe it but it ended up coming true.
The pundits didn't make those predictions based on whether UConn would be emotionally spent or not.
My take on their predictions was that they didn't expect UConn to make it beyond the Elite 8 in the NCAAT.
Maybe those pundits simply made lucky guesses that UConn was going to have a down year.

Louisville with Hailey did make it to the Elite 8 but they got beat by Iowa 97-83.

 

[Bone Dog]

Flashback.
After Paige got injured last year, some pre-season pundits ranked UConn as being #11 - #15 in the nation.
Most on the Boneyard didn't want to believe it but it ended up coming true.
The pundits didn't make those predictions based on whether UConn would be emotionally spent or not.
My take on their predictions was that they didn't expect UConn to make it beyond the Elite 8 in the NCAAT.
Maybe those pundits simply made lucky guesses that UConn was going to have a down year.

Louisville with Hailey did make it to the Elite 8 but they got beat by Iowa 97-83.

Flashback: why are you responding to me? Your observation about pundits and predictions has nothing to do with any of my comments, other than taking out of context a remark I made about how we should take the condition of the team into consideration rather than simply blaming Nika for the loss.

 

[MSGRET]

I would key the Meatloaf music of "two out of three ain't bad" for my agreement and reply, as any 3 of your four would be an outstanding improvement to ensure 5 vs. 5 is required each time down the court. But with Geno's (tongue in cheek, imo..) statement of "get the ball to half-court and dish it to a scorer," I would say #2-4 would be in order, as I have not seen any attempt to be a mid-range scorer.

However, a "give & go" slashing to the basket could easily be part of Kiks's arsenal, along with going 2 for 3 from beyond the arc, as most of them would be wide open looks early in the year, and one slash for a score, plus two trips to the line for being mugged on slashes with 85%+ accuracy from the line would generate 11 - 12 points each outing.

Combine the above (New &) improved NIka with AE, PB, Azzi all averaging in the high teens and lower 20's, plus the other scorers contributions, UCONN will be good on the offensive end because of their extreme smothering defense on the MAIN EVENT end: getting stops & fast breaks [AE, AG, KK, PB, Azzi, Carol(ine), et. al. finishing! It will be a thing of beauty!

Go Huskies!

Such a great song.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

We didn’t lose to tOSU because Nika failed to score enough points. We lost because we didn’t get the ball across half court consistently enough, and when we did break the press we missed the open looks that followed. If you ask why that happened, again it wasn’t Nika who fell short. It was that the team was emotionally spent and lacked the resilience to respond to a challenging situation.

I saw that game and yes you are right that UConn lost not because Nika failed to score enough points, but because OSU’s full court press knew Nika when pressured would look to pass and pick up her dribble. Her defender would immediately back away and a tipped or stolen pass was the result. A point guard never picks up her dribble in the backcourt, it’s suicidal. It was basically 4 on 5. If Paige had been presented with the same situation, she would’ve immediately raced up the court and headed for the hoop.

 

[MSGRET]

Flashback.
After Paige got injured last year, some pre-season pundits ranked UConn as being #11 - #15 in the nation.
Most on the Boneyard didn't want to believe it but it ended up coming true.
The pundits didn't make those predictions based on whether UConn would be emotionally spent or not.
My take on their predictions was that they didn't expect UConn to make it beyond the Elite 8 in the NCAAT.
Maybe those pundits simply made lucky guesses that UConn was going to have a down year.

Louisville with Hailey did make it to the Elite 8 but they got beat by Iowa 97-83.

I wouldn't consider it a down year when at times UConn only had 7 healthy players being able to play and still only lost 6 games total and all of those losses were to teams that made the NCAA Tournament.

 

[hoophuskee]

Flashback.
After Paige got injured last year, some pre-season pundits ranked UConn as being #11 - #15 in the nation.
Most on the Boneyard didn't want to believe it but it ended up coming true.
The pundits didn't make those predictions based on whether UConn would be emotionally spent or not.
My take on their predictions was that they didn't expect UConn to make it beyond the Elite 8 in the NCAAT.
Maybe those pundits simply made lucky guesses that UConn was going to have a down year.

Louisville with Hailey did make it to the Elite 8 but they got beat by Iowa 97-83.

I doubt that most of the BY that felt 11 - 15 was wrong didn't expect Azzi to be hurt.

 

[Cornell Lt]

Game on the line , down 2 with the clock running down, who do you want taking the last shot Hailey Van Lith or Nika ?

 

[The CDR-Ret]

Halley plays the same position as Azzi and Paige. Having her in the line-up would really muddle up the offence. What we do need is a PG who can get the ball to Azzi and Paige. Does anyone think Halley could and would be willing to do that? I don't think so. She is a SG and would have a tough time trying to get shots playing with Azzi and Paige. Having multiple shooters without a floor general makes no sense, and if we want Paige to score more Nika would give her the best opportunity to do so. This conversation is so stupid if you can't look at the line-up as a whole, and not the assets of individual players. This isn't an all-star team, just a team that right now has all the components to make a NC run. I don't know why some of you don't see that.

It's just that the "follically challenged" don't have their hair in their eyes, so we can see clearly ....

One of my Chiefs gave me a poster that says, "I'm not bald, I'm just too tall for my hair!" Being 6' 4" and a submariner had something to do with it.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

Game on the line , down 2 with the clock running down, who do you want taking the last shot Hailey Van Lith or Nika ?

Nika, because I do not want LSU to win...

That way, AE or AG could tip it back in to force OT if Nika misses from 3 pt range.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

Such a great song.

The other part of the song (2 out of 3 ain't bad) is about "talking all night is getting us nowhere"....

I am a huge Nika fan, but not so much for Hailey Van Lith except for the TEAM USA exploits when other UCONN women are on the same team....

Go Huskies, as there can only be ONE team who wins their last game of the NCAA tourney!!! Everybody else can just sit down (when the trophy is awarded to Geno, who hands it rapidly to Nika, AE & PB)...

 

[The CDR-Ret]

I would key the Meatloaf music of "two out of three ain't bad" for my agreement and reply, as any 3 of your four would be an outstanding improvement to ensure 5 vs. 5 is required each time down the court. But with Geno's (tongue in cheek, imo..) statement of "get the ball to half-court and dish it to a scorer," I would say #2-4 would be in order, as I have not seen any attempt to be a mid-range scorer.

However, a "give & go" slashing to the basket could easily be part of Kiks's arsenal, along with going 2 for 3 from beyond the arc, as most of them would be wide open looks early in the year, and one slash for a score, plus two trips to the line for being mugged on slashes with 85%+ accuracy from the line would generate 11 - 12 points each outing.

Combine the above (New &) improved NIka with AE, PB, Azzi all averaging in the high teens and lower 20's, plus the other scorers contributions, UCONN will be good on the offensive end because of their extreme smothering defense on the MAIN EVENT end: getting stops & fast breaks [AE, AG, KK, PB, Azzi, Carol(ine), et. al. finishing! It will be a thing of beauty!

Go Huskies!

Should have been: ..."part of Nika's arsenal"... instead of "Kiks"s" but I'm sure others already read that into it...

 

[Blond D.]

Wait till Nika goes head to head with Lith. Lets see how many points Lith gets then.

 

[Sakibomb25]

You are comparing two different players who are asked two full different roles for their respective teams.

Van Lith is a scorer and that has been her role at Louisville and I imagine will be at LSU. Nika, while important, is more of a supporting player. She isn’t the top option and the statistics reflect that in terms of the volume of shooting she does compared to Van Lith. She’s more of a facilitator for UConn rather than a top offensive threat (she still is a threat, mind you, but she isn’t the primary focus of the other team).

As to who is better… it depends what you are looking for. If you want someone who is a scorer, you choose Van Lith. If you team had a bunch of offensive stars, then you want Nika because she’ll be the one to bring them together and get them the ball.

 

[hoophuskee]

Game on the line , down 2 with the clock running down, who do you want taking the last shot Hailey Van Lith or Nika ?

Game on the line- UCONN up by 1 has to defend the opposing team having last possession, who do you want out there defending Hailey Van Lith or Nika?

 

[nwhoopfan]

Well, tale of the tape says Van Lith is 1-0 vs. UConn in her career. No Bueckers, Fudd or Muhl in that game. But UConn had 3 or 4 current pros (depending on how you count) on the floor for that game and almost certainly another future pro in Edwards. ONO, Juhasz, Westbrook and Williams started along w/ Ducharme. So so game for Hailey Van Lith, 16 points, tied for team high, but only 5-14 shooting.

 

[hoophuskee]

Well, tale of the tape says Van Lith is 1-0 vs. UConn in her career. No Bueckers, Fudd or Muhl in that game. But UConn had 3 or 4 current pros (depending on how you count) on the floor for that game and almost certainly another future pro in Edwards. ONO, Juhasz, Westbrook and Williams started along w/ Ducharme. So so game for Hailey Van Lith, 16 points, tied for team high, but only 5-14 shooting.

Hailey Van Lith is better individual- but you understand the difference between "superstar/POY" and "other," correct? Paige is a superstar -- and Fudd played like one last year before she got hurt. - It's almst like saying Rockets 93-94 and 94-95 were superior to the Bulls 6 year title run because the Bulls had most of their team one year and the next had Jordan back.

POY - means a lot. You as an Oregon fan know that too I suppose with your superstar, Sabrina.

 

[nwhoopfan]

POY - means a lot. You as an Oregon fan know that too I suppose with your superstar, Sabrina.

I followed Oregon and Ionescu, but don't claim them as my team. You must have me mixed up with another poster.

 

[hoophuskee]

I followed Oregon and Ionescu, but don't claim them as my team. You must have me mixed up with another poster.

okay sorry. I thought you were an Oregon fan. Anyhow superstars change everything.

 

[nwhoopfan]

okay sorry. I thought you were an Oregon fan. Anyhow superstars change everything.

They do. Both teams played with who they had available. UConn certainly wasn't lacking talent that day.

 

[hoophuskee]

They do. Both teams played with who they had available. UConn certainly wasn't lacking talent that day.

But the entire point with Nika is that she passes to superstar(s). This thread is littered with expalining the difference between Nika as a passing pg vs Hailey Van Lith as a scorer. If Nika doesn't have the superstar to pass to-- then ofc Hailey Van Lith's ability to score will shine more.

The point has been however that Nika will do everythign she can to pass - while Hailey Van Lith not much to pass at this point - she wans't aksed to but she hasn't. So, when you take away the superstars that Nika passes to- then try to compare the other UCON player's you referenced- it's not a vlaid arguemnt.

There is no comaprsion betwen "having talent" vs "having superstar(s). Ergo my point about Jordan. Ergo my point about Sabrina.

And it's why when teams trade so much to get the superstar, their value is much higher than just a couple of players. So add Azzi to the mix - it's not close. Just because UCONN had talent doesn';t mean it was near what the supersars give. That;s the whole point of the argument - Nika doesn't need to score much when she has Piage and Azzi. Her strenght is pasing - Hailey Van Lith's is not. SO, if you think that the players you referenced are near the talent overall of what Paige and Azzi bring then I have a bridge to sell you.



















wy in so many basketball sports whne a tarde is made for a supertar the other teams gives up so many players. So, oyur point of "talent" is not close to having "superstar(s) becuase teh palyers Niak normally passes to- were nto there. That's her strength. You're dliebertaley minimizing her strength and tryign to imply "enough talent" equals (supersatr talent." If you think teh talent you suggested UCONN had vs Lousivile equals what was lost wiht no Paige and azzi- then I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[sun]

Game on the line- UCONN up by 1 has to defend the opposing team having last possession, who do you want out there defending Hailey Van Lith or Nika?

With 1 or 2 seconds left on the clock for a long inbound pass I'd chose Amari to defend because she's a shot blocker.

But the entire point with Nika is that she passes to superstar(s). This thread is littered with expalining the difference between Nika as a passing pg vs Hailey Van Lith as a scorer. If Nika doesn't have the superstar to pass to-- then ofc Hailey Van Lith's ability to score will shine more.

The point has been however that Nika will do everythign she can to pass - while Hailey Van Lith not much to pass at this point - she wans't aksed to but she hasn't. So, when you take away the superstars that Nika passes to- then try to compare the other UCON player's you referenced- it's not a vlaid arguemnt.

If Nika & Hailey were both on the same team, Nika would get to pass to Hailey as a super star who can score on all 3 levels.
Nika would get plenty of assists because Hailey knows how to cut to the basket, drive the lane & do all of that good scoring stuff.
And then Hailey would be appreciated simply for being a UConn player because they would both contribute to winning games & only Geno would chose who gets more PT.

Hailey does contribute in more ways than by just scoring points:
"As a junior, Van Lith was one of two Power-Five Players (Caitlin Clark) to average at least 19 points, four rebounds and three assists per game…"

 

[hoophuskee]

With 1 or 2 seconds left on the clock for a long inbound pass I'd chose Amari to defend because she's a shot blocker.


If Nika & Hailey were both on the same team, Nika would get to pass to Hailey as a super star who can score on all 3 levels.
Nika would get plenty of assists because Hailey knows how to cut to the basket, drive the lane & all of that good stuff.
And then Hailey would be appreciated simply for being a UConn player because they would both contribute to winning games & only Geno would chose who gets more PT.

Hailey does contribute in more ways than scoring points:
"As a junior, Van Lith was one of two Power-Five Players (Caitlin Clark) to average at least 19 points, four rebounds and three assists per game…"

Then let's be fair and go back to the poster's comment regarding Offense and wanting Hailey Van Lith to shoot. You have to look at the argument both ways-- If we're going to count only 1-2 seconds then on Offense then why would anyone choose Hailey Van Lith vs many other taller players because she is small to have to get off her shot with such little time. It can easily get blocked because she has no time to put the ball on the floor in order to get separation.

Yes- Nika would pass to Hailey Van Lith. Not sure why you felt a need ot bring this up? Has someone sent you on post on here suggesting anything different?

That's nice-- Hailey Van Lith was one of two players to account for the stats you cite. I'll counter with the stat that Nika broke SUe Bird's assist record. Considering UCONN is the premiere program historically - then this is a huge accomplsihment. Plus Nika got DPOY in BE.

 

[maccca3232]

The lack of respect for Nika's offensive capabilities, by some on this board, is puzzling. So here are some stats to answer the question, who is a better offensive player, Nika or Hailey Van Lith?

There is an advanced stat called 'Points Produced'.

Last season for players in P5 + Big East (min. 200 mins) Hailey Van Lith was 6th overall versus Nika Muhl 118th overall.

The graph below shows the Top 10 overall plus selected players.

 

[Bald Husky]

Did you not see the emoji? And btw I'm one of Nika's biggest fans.

Sorry Beem, wasn't sure. Thats why I was questioning that statement. Go Huskies, go Nika.

 

[#12in21]

Game on the line , down 2 with the clock running down, who do you want taking the last shot Hailey Van Lith or Nika ?

Trick question: In that scenario, if Van Lith has the ball she only sees the basket and takes the shot whether the best option or not (not necessarily a criticism - that's her game), or Nika finds the best option in Paige, Azzi or Aaliyah who are all in motion - great odds the three falls for the win or it's an and one with the likely same result.