Tweets from Practice

[johnhuskies95]

LOL. At least you're a quick learner. BigErn would be proud.

I'm still waiting for your personal assessment of the facets of the game mau and I touched upon. You disagree with my conclusion about AO as a player. But touch base with all the specific points I made regarding flaws in his game. Debate them case by case.

This article debates your reliance on Defensive Win Shares.
Link: http://ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.blogspot.com/2013/04/defensive-win-shares-are-completely.html

Defensive Win Shares Are Completely Broken

As the flagship one metric stat of the popular website basketball-reference, win shares are heavily cited in the basketball world. Unfortunately, the stat is far from perfect, and the defensive side of the stat is particularly egregious. Defense is notoriously tricky to quantify, and win shares attempts this using the usual bevy of defensive box score stats like blocks and steals, but they also include the team's defensive rating. This means that Zach Randolph gets the same credit for defense Tony Allen and Marc Gasol do, ignoring the few defensive box score stats. The influence of team defense is huge on this stat. What's even more problematic is that it's used in the time before steals and blocks, and when defensive rebounds weren't tracked separately from total rebounds.

The best example of how the metric fails is with Ryan Anderson. Traded from the Magic, who with Howard were a perennial defensive team, to the Hornets, still reeling from tanking and poor decisions, what changed was his scenery, not his defensive skill. Obviously, motivation is important with defense, as is coaching, but his defensive rating tracks closely to this team's rating. 2012 was his breakout season, yet his defensive rating plummeted from 19th in the league, or nearly a 95th percentile, to almost exactly average. The table below has the full details where percentile is based on players that season with at least 500 minutes.

Listen, I agree with you that Defensive Win Shares is not a perfect stat. But I think it's proof that he was not weak on defense like you seem to think he was.

One of my problems is that the assessment you and Mau have of him paints him as almost being so mediocre that it makes JC look like a bad coach as a result for playing him so much. I mean, he was 5th in the Big East for a reason, and it wasn't just his rebounding. He was a great low-block defender, a solid interior scorer(certainly not below a 5 on a 1-10 scale like you claimed), and a good help defender.

To be honest I'm kind of ambivalent about Oriakhi. Drummond absolutely deserved to get minutes over him in 2012, but at the same time he was the third best player on a National Championship team, so he was obviously pretty good.

I'm not going to get my panties in a wad about a college kid because he chose to transfer somewhere where he'd have a chance to make the tournament in his Senior season.

 

[champs99and04]

IMO, by the time March arrived, Lamb was the second best player on that team and it wasn't even close. For whatever reason, this board seems to have developed a collective amnesia when it comes to Lamb. He was exceptional in March of 2011. Like, really, really good - like, second best player in the entire country good. His efficiency over that span was unprecedented and may not be seen again from a UConn guard in our lifetime. Additionally, he emerged into a very good defensive player and was probably the biggest driving force behind the team defenses evolution from good to great. His ability to play the three - something he struggled with early on in the season - allowed our crunch time lineup with the two ball handlers to flourish without forfeiting anything on the glass. He was also about #395 on the list of problems in 2012, so if you're letting that cloud your memories of Lamb at UConn, I'd say you're making a mistake. He was a great Husky.

Oriakhi was a player who had some deficiencies, but overall, played a huge role in that 2011 championship. I believe Fleud is right in regard to some of his defensive flaws, but for however imperfect he was defending the perimeter, he made up for that with his ability to play guys like Matt Howard, Josh Harrelson, Yancy Gates, Rick Jackson, Gary McGee, etc. etc. on the block. Him consistently digging out extra possessions for us on the glass was equally valuable. If you wanted to make the argument that he was the second best player from November to March, it's tough to disagree with that.

 

[ctchamps]

Listen, I agree with you that Defensive Win Shares is not a perfect stat. But I think it's proof that he was not weak on defense like you seem to think he was.

One of my problems is that the assessment you and Mau have of him paints him as almost being so mediocre that it makes JC look like a bad coach as a result for playing him so much. I mean, he was 5th in the Big East for a reason, and it wasn't just his rebounding. He was a great low-block defender, a solid interior scorer(certainly not below a 5 on a 1-10 scale like you claimed - not what I claimed), and a good help defender. In many categories such as passing, I would give him scores of 3 or 4. As an overall player I'd give him a 5 or 6. As a rebounder I'd give him a 10. What he did for UConn in that championship run I'd give him a 10. What he did for UConn with the way he handled his departure I'd give him a zero.

To be honest I'm kind of ambivalent about Oriakhi. Drummond absolutely deserved to get minutes over him in 2012, but at the same time he was the third best player on a National Championship team, so he was obviously pretty good.

I'm not going to get my panties in a wad about a college kid because he chose to transfer somewhere where he'd have a chance to make the tournament in his Senior season.

It's all good john. I was enjoying the back and forth because you didn't put me in the crosshairs.

I'm curious about last season. What were the PERs and DWSs for Alex and Roscoe. Of the two players leaving I wanted Roscoe to stay and not just because he was classier in his departure.

 

[johnhuskies95]

It's all good john. I was enjoying the back and forth because you didn't put me in the crosshairs.

I'm curious about last season. What were the PERs and DWSs for Alex and Roscoe. Of the two players leaving I wanted Roscoe to stay and not just because he was classier in his departure.

But you said "In summary if there are ten facets to being a great player I would say AO was below a five(on a scale of one to ten) in nine of the facets and a ten on the tenth facet" You may be arguing that interior scoring is not one of the ten facets to being a great player, in which case I would disagree.

And to answer your question, Oriakhi had already graduated by last season, but in his first season away from UConn, Oriakhi had a PER of 27.2 and last year Smith had a PER of 21.6.

Oriakhi had a DWS of 1.7 and Smith had a DWS of 2.0. Oriakhi had a better defensive rating.

 

[ctchamps]

But you said "In summary if there are ten facets to being a great player I would say AO was below a five(on a scale of one to ten) in nine of the facets and a ten on the tenth facet" You may be arguing that interior scoring is not one of the ten facets to being a great player, in which case I would disagree. No I wasn't excluding rebounding. I'd give it a higher weight compared to the other parameters, because I do think it's very important, but then I would average the score.

And to answer your question, Oriakhi had already graduated by last season, ( did he now) but in his first season away from UConn, Oriakhi had a PER of 27.2 and last year Smith had a PER of 21.6.

Oriakhi had a DWS of 1.7 and Smith had a DWS of 2.0. Oriakhi had a better defensive rating.

Thanks. The PER difference looks significant. Not sure about the DWS. Am I wrong?

 

[johnhuskies95]

Thanks. The PER difference looks significant. Not sure about the DWS. Am I wrong?

I don't think there's a huge difference in Win Shares there, but Roscoe is slightly better there. What's interesting is that as good as Roscoe was on the boards last season, his TRB% isn't that much better than Oriakhi's.

 

[3uconn]

@UConnMBB: UConn: Day 3 of practice for the 2014-15 Huskies. Excited to have 12 NBA scouts join us today in the Champions Center!! #BLEEDBLUE

 

[Rocktheworld]

@UConnMBB: UConn: Day 3 of practice for the 2014-15 Huskies. Excited to have 12 NBA scouts join us today in the Champions Center!! #BLEEDBLUE

UConn doesn't chase the NBA with hype, Drake, and ESPN specials. Scouts chase our players.

 

[upstater]

@UConnMBB: UConn: Day 3 of practice for the 2014-15 Huskies. Excited to have 12 NBA scouts join us today in the Champions Center!! #BLEEDBLUE

Did ESPNU film the UConn combine?

 

[Husky68]

You admitted as recently as a year ago that you still hold ill feelings towards Oriakhi, so I'm not sure you're exactly a neutral observer in all this.

He was 9th in the NCAA in rebounding in 2011. He led the Big East in ORB%. He had the best season of any UConn big in the last 5 years.

To pretend that he wasn't objectively a good player is reckless. Was he inconsistent? Yes, of course. But every single player on that team struggled for parts of the season, including Kemba.

Looked at NCAA records and have him as 56th best rebounding rate at 8.7 per game. What does the 9th reflect, is it total rebounds (which might be due to playing more games than a lot of players as he got all the way to championship game). 56th isn't bad, but not great either. As a further note, for Missouri the next year he averaged 8.4 rebounds a game and was # 72 in the NCAA's.

If didn't have Alex would not have won, but can say same about just about every team that wins and every player. Would UConn have won last year without Bazz, Boat, Giffey, DD, Nolan ? Lose in 1st round without Brimah play, lose several games without Kromah or Samuel making big plays. Really, if you are in the rotation, you probably have made at least 1 if not more "game winning" plays or had "you're the man type games".

 

[UConnSwag11]

@UConnMBB: UConn: Day 3 of practice for the 2014-15 Huskies. Excited to have 12 NBA scouts join us today in the Champions Center!! #BLEEDBLUE

thanks, can we get more tweets, articles and videos from practice instead of all this bs

 

[RedGuerrUltra]

UConn doesn't chase the NBA with hype, Drake, and ESPN specials. Scouts chase our players.

I think it goes: championships chase our players who in turn chase our scouts.

 

[mauconnfan]

Just do the following thought exercise: if you removed the player from the lineup, which absence would have the most detrimental effect:

AO replacement: nobody (chuck?)
JL replacement: combo of SN/DB/Giffey (big step down, but it's something)
SN replacement: Donnell Beverly, Jeremy Lamb, and Giffey combo (definitely light, but it's something)

Wow not a really good lesson now is it. JL replaced by Donnell Beverly or a young Giffey? Really? I think you underestimate how important Lamb was to the run, most likely 2nd most important once the run started. And Shabazz's replacement in the same respect - him having the ball in his hands at crunch time rather than the other names you mention cannot be compared. AO too no doubt we needed them all.

 

[David 76]

In 2011 we had no talent to spare, just heart.

 

[intlzncster]

Wow not a really good lesson now is it. JL replaced by Donnell Beverly or a young Giffey? Really? I think you underestimate how important Lamb was to the run, most likely 2nd most important once the run started. And Shabazz's replacement in the same respect - him having the ball in his hands at crunch time rather than the other names you mention cannot be compared. AO too no doubt we needed them all.

I get how important lamb was. But the talent disparity between AO and okwandu was greater than between lamb and a combo of two guys, mainly because Chuck was so limited. If chuck put up 8pts the place would go ballistic.

I'm not sure if Chuck puts up better numbers if he played AO's shift. And he would have fouled out with 15m to go. that's probably the most important thing. Also Shabazz could likely have picked up some production too.

Obviously every single guy was vital to the title UConn doesn't win without everyone . We all know that. We are essentially talking on a vacuum here

 

[Dogbreath2U]

I get how important lamb was. But the talent disparity between AO and okwandu was greater than between lamb and a combo of two guys, mainly because Chuck was so limited. If chuck put up 8pts the place would go ballistic.

I'm not sure if Chuck puts up better numbers if he played AO's shift. And he would have fouled out with 15m to go. that's probably the most important thing. Also Shabazz could likely have picked up some production too.

Obviously every single guy was vital to the title UConn doesn't win without everyone . We all know that. We are essentially talking on a vacuum here

Chuck had some limitations, but he began playing much better when the tournaments started. He played some pretty good perimeter defense and just played smarter. He was a minor, but significant contributor to that title.

 

[donyell34]

Bullshit ! It's early and what else is there right now. Anything to do with college basketball is fair game. Yes we go over and over everything but that's all we have right now. Hopefully Mack will commit this weekend and we will have something new.

 

[mauconnfan]

I get how important lamb was. But the talent disparity between AO and okwandu was greater than between lamb and a combo of two guys, mainly because Chuck was so limited. If chuck put up 8pts the place would go ballistic.

I'm not sure if Chuck puts up better numbers if he played AO's shift. And he would have fouled out with 15m to go. that's probably the most important thing. Also Shabazz could likely have picked up some production too.

Obviously every single guy was vital to the title UConn doesn't win without everyone . We all know that. We are essentially talking on a vacuum here

I couldn't disagree more. You need to really look at what Jeremy was doing by tourney time and then let me know if any of the guys you speak of would have hit this big 3's or those runners, jumped in passing lanes and flipped it forward for a dunk or 2? Giffey wasn't who he was last year at that point and DB wasn't close, just an experienced bench guy. JL was another ball handler also which was so important to the space Kemba was getting. AO played well in the tourney, stepped it up from the regular season no doubt but Jeremy was 2-3 levels up and making his name right there and then - he was special. Again, underrating JL I believe but everyone has an opinion.

 

[pj]

I get how important lamb was. But the talent disparity between AO and okwandu was greater than between lamb and a combo of two guys, mainly because Chuck was so limited. If chuck put up 8pts the place would go ballistic.

I'm not sure if Chuck puts up better numbers if he played AO's shift. And he would have fouled out with 15m to go. that's probably the most important thing. Also Shabazz could likely have picked up some production too.

Obviously every single guy was vital to the title UConn doesn't win without everyone . We all know that. We are essentially talking on a vacuum here

Chuck was incredibly valuable. He was a quality defender, very hard to shoot over or around. He played great in the championship run.

The team had plenty of perimeter scoring and didn't need the center to score. Oriakhi was better at rebounding and putbacks, but Chuck was the better defender.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Boat and Bazz made Wilebekin look very average last season. They made MSU's guards look confused and frustrated. Then they made the twins look slow.

and yet, when it came to Louisville, the tables were completely turned.

 

[ctchamps]

I get how important lamb was. But the talent disparity between AO and okwandu was greater than between lamb and a combo of two guys, mainly because Chuck was so limited. If chuck put up 8pts the place would go ballistic.

I'm not sure if Chuck puts up better numbers if he played AO's shift. And he would have fouled out with 15m to go. that's probably the most important thing. Also Shabazz could likely have picked up some production too.

Obviously every single guy was vital to the title UConn doesn't win without everyone . We all know that. We are essentially talking on a vacuum here

Since when did you become an AO Apologista?

 

[donyell34]

Yeah! So we had trouble with Louisville big deal it's over and in the end didn't mean squat. Tired of hearing about it. Let that go .

 

[uconnfan68]

Yeah! So we had trouble with Louisville big deal it's over and in the end didn't mean squat. Tired of hearing about it. Let that go .

No one will remember that in 20 years. All they will remember is UConn had 4 NCs between 1999-2014.

 

[RichZ]

No one will remember that in 20 years. All they will remember is UConn had 4 NCs between 1999-2014.

I firmly believe that 4 in 15 years will just be a bookmark in the story of 6 in 20, and a footnote in the megastory of 3 in 7 for KO.

Hey, it's October. Had to dig out the Nat'l Flag Blue colored glasses.

 

[Davidm]

Hey 3Uconn sorry to call you out but everyone else seems to be on boats with no paddles going down the wrong way of this thread.

Any reports about who the scouts were there to see / what they thought?