Transfer Thread Pt 2.....

[DallasBUFan]

Texas has had more McD AA's the past couple of years more than anyone. Yeah, they played UConn close... So why did they lose to Tennessee? Why can't they consistently play good basketball? It's because they don't have a great coach. Give Muffet or Geno her players and you will an NC. Same thing for Mulkey honestly during the Griner era. She should have more than one NC

Note that Griner has only won 1 WNBA Championship since she entered the league in 2013 and has not been an MVP either. So do you blame the coaching or the player? Everyone has to shift these days, so is it fair that from the ages of 18-22 Mulkey could only get that out of her. While in WNBA 23-27 years of age entering this season while playing alongside one of the GOATs has only won 1 national championship. So I think it comes down to the the player or the fact that the we have sooo many talented players and amazing coaches.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Texas has had more McD AA's the past couple of years more than anyone. Yeah, they played UConn close... So why did they lose to Tennessee? Why can't they consistently play good basketball? It's because they don't have a great coach. Give Muffet or Geno her players and you will an NC. Same thing for Mulkey honestly during the Griner era. She should have more than one NC

To be fair, ND had as many McD AA's in 16-17 and didn't win the NC or even make the FF but Turner's injury made them more vulnerable. TX did underachieve this year based on talent but sometimes team chemistry is off. I'm not saying that Aston is a good coach, the jury is very much still out, but they have recruited well and now it's put up or shut up time in Austin. Dani Williams should fill a hole on the perimeter and the incoming freshmen may give them some needed assistance.

I always wonder when people say Baylor "should" have won more than 1 NC with Griner what year they refer to? In 2010 when Charles and Moore dominated the nation and she was a freshman along with Stanford having it's best team in years? Maybe 2011? Louisville in 2013 was definitely a monumental upset but would/should they have defeated a very good, peaking at the right time UConn team in the finals? This paragraph isn't sarcasm. I'm not president of the Mulkey fan club due to her attitude but to paint her as a bad coach is a little dismissive of what she's done at Baylor.

 

[donalddoowop]

And, UConn had how many AP All-Americans and WNBA draft picks this year and last year compared to the opponents they matched up with in the Final Four semi-finals? So, despite having the greatest coach of all time, and players having incredible seasons, they fell short of their NCAA tournament seeding and underachieved. That's sports. No team/coach is ever going to meet all fan expectations, and players don't always live up to their high school accolades in college.

Uconn at least made the FF the last two seasons. This is the season Texas should make the FF with the talent and experience they have.

 

[bballnut90]

To be fair, ND had as many McD AA's in 16-17 and didn't win the NC or even make the FF but Turner's injury made them more vulnerable. TX did underachieve this year based on talent but sometimes team chemistry is off. I'm not saying that Aston is a good coach, the jury is very much still out, but they have recruited well and now it's put up or shut up time in Austin. Dani Williams should fill a hole on the perimeter and the incoming freshmen may give them some needed assistance.

I always wonder when people say Baylor "should" have won more than 1 NC with Griner what year they refer to? In 2010 when Charles and Moore dominated the nation and she was a freshman along with Stanford having it's best team in years? Maybe 2011? Louisville in 2013 was definitely a monumental upset but would/should they have defeated a very good, peaking at the right time UConn team in the finals? This paragraph isn't sarcasm. I'm not president of the Mulkey fan club due to her attitude but to paint her as a bad coach is a little dismissive of what she's done at Baylor.

2011 and 2013. 2011 they absolutely should have at least made the Final Four, or at least put up a better fight against A&M (a team they beat 3x that year), and in 2013 there was no excuse to not trounce Louisville. Beat Louisville and they have a cake walk to the finals (next games are against Tennessee and Cal) and then the UCONN showdown. If they play UCONN in the finals and lose, you still have a lot more respect for Kim's success with Griner IMO.

For me it wasn't that they didn't make it to the final game but they were handily beat by an inferior team in 2011, and in 2013 they lost in the Sweet 16 to an extremely inferior team. To make just 1 Final Four from 2011-2013 when you have Griner and Sims is a travesty IMO. Kim isn't a bad coach by any means, but she's a far step below the top tier of coaches. She can recruit with the best of them but is not up to par with her ability to make in game adjustments and come up with strong game plans. Vic and Rueck have had zero business beating Baylor the last 3 years.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

2011 and 2013. 2011 they absolutely should have at least made the Final Four, or at least put up a better fight against A&M (a team they beat 3x that year), and in 2013 there was no excuse to not trounce Louisville. Beat Louisville and they have a cake walk to the finals (next games are against Tennessee and Cal) and then the UCONN showdown. If they play UCONN in the finals and lose, you still have a lot more respect for Kim's success with Griner IMO.

For me it wasn't that they didn't make it to the final game but they were handily beat by an inferior team in 2011, and in 2013 they lost in the Sweet 16 to an extremely inferior team. To make just 1 Final Four from 2011-2013 when you have Griner and Sims is a travesty IMO. Kim isn't a bad coach by any means, but she's a far step below the top tier of coaches. She can recruit with the best of them but is not up to par with her ability to make in game adjustments and come up with strong game plans. Vic and Rueck have had zero business beating Baylor the last 3 years.

Thanks for your feedback and I'm not trying to hijack a transfer thread. No doubt both 2011 and 2013 were winnable years for them based on talent. I didn't get to watch much of the 2011 tournament due to a move and job change and remember being surprised at the finals match up. I watched the 2013 game and they were far, far superior to Louisville but it was a lightening in a bottle game for the Cardinals and truly an upset for the ages. Again, I don't care for Kim's attitude she gives off in public but I don't think that makes her a bad coach. Like Texas, Baylor has built up a tremendous level of talent and it's time to put it to use.

 

[skilz]

2011 and 2013. 2011 they absolutely should have at least made the Final Four, or at least put up a better fight against A&M (a team they beat 3x that year), and in 2013 there was no excuse to not trounce Louisville. Beat Louisville and they have a cake walk to the finals (next games are against Tennessee and Cal) and then the UCONN showdown. If they play UCONN in the finals and lose, you still have a lot more respect for Kim's success with Griner IMO.

For me it wasn't that they didn't make it to the final game but they were handily beat by an inferior team in 2011, and in 2013 they lost in the Sweet 16 to an extremely inferior team. To make just 1 Final Four from 2011-2013 when you have Griner and Sims is a travesty IMO. Kim isn't a bad coach by any means, but she's a far step below the top tier of coaches. She can recruit with the best of them but is not up to par with her ability to make in game adjustments and come up with strong game plans. Vic and Rueck have had zero business beating Baylor the last 3 years.

Are you talking about the inferior team in 2011 that beat ND for the Championship, who beat UConn in the Semifinals?? Not sure I'd call them "inferior."

 

[DallasBUFan]

2011 and 2013. 2011 they absolutely should have at least made the Final Four, or at least put up a better fight against A&M (a team they beat 3x that year), and in 2013 there was no excuse to not trounce Louisville. Beat Louisville and they have a cake walk to the finals (next games are against Tennessee and Cal) and then the UCONN showdown. If they play UCONN in the finals and lose, you still have a lot more respect for Kim's success with Griner IMO.

For me it wasn't that they didn't make it to the final game but they were handily beat by an inferior team in 2011, and in 2013 they lost in the Sweet 16 to an extremely inferior team. To make just 1 Final Four from 2011-2013 when you have Griner and Sims is a travesty IMO. Kim isn't a bad coach by any means, but she's a far step below the top tier of coaches. She can recruit with the best of them but is not up to par with her ability to make in game adjustments and come up with strong game plans. Vic and Rueck have had zero business beating Baylor the last 3 years.

So when you have another Top caliber team that you have already beat 3x, it is not easy to beat a 4th. Currently every time we beat Texas I get more nervous. After you play a team twice you know them pretty well. A great example is this years Miss State team. Didn't they loose to South Carolina? Also, UConn handily beat ND with "more talent" this year, but yet lost later in this season. So why is expected to beat a top team 4 times in one year and within weeks of another? I'm sorry, but I totally disagree. BU should have won in 13 however, that game against Louisville was awful!!! Let's see Tenn beat a top 10 team 4x times in a matter of 3-4 months.

Also, it seems hypocritical that we want more parody upsets etc, but when it happens we blame coaches for holding standards. So do we want them to be upset to keep it interesting or all the seeds to when accordingly to their seed?

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Kim isn't a bad coach by any means, but she's a far step below the top tier of coaches. She can recruit with the best of them but is not up to par with her ability to make in game adjustments and come up with strong game plans. Vic and Rueck have had zero business beating Baylor the last 3 years.

Vic had zero business beating UConn in 2017 either so...

 

[Reypl21]

To be fair, ND had as many McD AA's in 16-17 and didn't win the NC or even make the FF but Turner's injury made them more vulnerable. TX did underachieve this year based on talent but sometimes team chemistry is off. I'm not saying that Aston is a good coach, the jury is very much still out, but they have recruited well and now it's put up or shut up time in Austin. Dani Williams should fill a hole on the perimeter and the incoming freshmen may give them some needed assistance.

I always wonder when people say Baylor "should" have won more than 1 NC with Griner what year they refer to? In 2010 when Charles and Moore dominated the nation and she was a freshman along with Stanford having it's best team in years? Maybe 2011? Louisville in 2013 was definitely a monumental upset but would/should they have defeated a very good, peaking at the right time UConn team in the finals? This paragraph isn't sarcasm. I'm not president of the Mulkey fan club due to her attitude but to paint her as a bad coach is a little dismissive of what she's done at Baylor.

Like other posters said, 2011 and 2013. In regards to ND last year, I believe they had 8 McD AAs. 3 Frosh, 2 sophomores, 2 juniors, and a senior HS AA. I thought ND looked very capable of challenging UConn (turned out MSst would be in the championship) after their ACC title game. Their offense looked potent when Boley and Young started shooting better. And when Arike started to pass a little more.
If Turner didn't get hurt I believe they would habe at least been in the FF. Stanford beat them by 1, and they were carving them up in the paint.
I guess I shouldn't call Aston and Mulkey bad coaches. They are definitely superb in many areas, especially recruiting. I think Texas might have too much talent, and they don't play consistent enough to make it to Elite 8s.
Mulkey just needs to schedule a tougher schedule. Her team was hardly tested over the course of the season. I would make an argument that ND' s schedule helped them win the title because they went through it all. A tough early come from behind win at Oregon ST, the 4th quarter meltdown at UConn, the stomping at Louisville, 23 point comeback against Tenn, and then losing to Louisville again.
I would put Mulkey and Aston in the same group as Walz, Staley, Frese, Blair, and Rueck (among others).

 

[Reypl21]

Sorry, I pay close attention to UConn and ND. So I feel like I catch myself speaking about ND a lot on here, because UConn is obviously well covered.

 

[triaddukefan]

we should transfer this talk to another thread


Perhaps as final exams are being completed...... news of more transfers will be announced....... hopefully none from Durham County

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Note that Griner has only won 1 WNBA Championship since she entered the league in 2013 and has not been an MVP either. So do you blame the coaching or the player? Everyone has to shift these days, so is it fair that from the ages of 18-22 Mulkey could only get that out of her. While in WNBA 23-27 years of age entering this season while playing alongside one of the GOATs has only won 1 national championship. So I think it comes down to the the player or the fact that the we have sooo many talented players and amazing coaches.

My comments and observations about Griner, from earlier in this thread:

In just five WNBA seasons, Griner has accomplished the following:

• 4× WNBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
• WNBA scoring champion (2017)
• 5× WNBA blocks leader (2013–2017)
• WNBA Peak Performer (2017)
• All-WNBA First Team (2014)
• 2× All-WNBA Second Team (2015, 2017)
• 2× WNBA Defensive Player of the Year Award (2014, 2015)
• 2× WNBA All-Defensive First Team (2014, 2015)
• 2× WNBA All-Defensive Second Team (2016, 2017)

In just five years, Griner ranks 8th all-time in the history of the league in total blocks and #1 in blocks per game. And in her fifth year, despite being injured for a good portion of he season, she still lead the league in scoring (offense) and blocks (defense).

As an aside, despite only have 1 WNBA Championship, Griner's teams have made at least the Conference Finals/Playoff Semi-Finals EVERY year. So her teams have been in the "final four" every single year -- and one of those years was WITHOUT Diana Taurasi AND Penny Taylor.

Last year, Griner averaged 21.9 ppg, 7.6 rpg, and 2.5 bpg, while shooting 57.7 percent from the floor and 81.5 percent from the foul line. These were her numbers:

#1 in the WNBA in scoring (by 2.0 ppg)
#1 in field goals made
#1 in blocks
#1 in PIE (an estimate of the player’s statistical contributions while on the court in relation to the game totals. If all players and teams performed equally, player PIE Ratings would be 10% and teams would be 50%)
#3 in field goal percentage
#9 in rebounding

Griner played 26 (of 34) games last year, which hurt her candidacy for MVP. She very likely could have won the award had she played the entire season. And she played last year without DeWanna Bonner (pregnancy) and Candice Dupree (traded), not to mention the retirement of Penny Taylor. Minnesota, by contrast, still had Maya Moore plus Lindsay Whalen, Seimone Augustus, Rebekkah Brunson, and Sylvia Fowles; LA, by contrast, still had Candace Parker and Nneka Ogwumike, Chelsea Gray, and DPOY Alana Beard. Griner did all of this, notwithstanding having less talented teammates (outside of Diana Taurasi) and the increased focus on her because of the lack of production/star power among the rest of the Phoenix roster.

 

[triaddukefan]

@CamrnCrz1974

Everytime I see you post in this thread.... my heart skips a beat.

Lemme log off and calm down a bit

 

[southie]

I guess this thread about Transfers got de-railed as s couple of posters became upset that Danni Williams chose to transfer to Texas; at least I think that's when it began.

 

[Charliebball]

 

[DallasBUFan]

My comments and observations about Griner, from earlier in this thread:

In just five WNBA seasons, Griner has accomplished the following:

• 4× WNBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
• WNBA scoring champion (2017)
• 5× WNBA blocks leader (2013–2017)
• WNBA Peak Performer (2017)
• All-WNBA First Team (2014)
• 2× All-WNBA Second Team (2015, 2017)
• 2× WNBA Defensive Player of the Year Award (2014, 2015)
• 2× WNBA All-Defensive First Team (2014, 2015)
• 2× WNBA All-Defensive Second Team (2016, 2017)

In just five years, Griner ranks 8th all-time in the history of the league in total blocks and #1 in blocks per game. And in her fifth year, despite being injured for a good portion of he season, she still lead the league in scoring (offense) and blocks (defense).

As an aside, despite only have 1 WNBA Championship, Griner's teams have made at least the Conference Finals/Playoff Semi-Finals EVERY year. So her teams have been in the "final four" every single year -- and one of those years was WITHOUT Diana Taurasi AND Penny Taylor.

Last year, Griner averaged 21.9 ppg, 7.6 rpg, and 2.5 bpg, while shooting 57.7 percent from the floor and 81.5 percent from the foul line. These were her numbers:

#1 in the WNBA in scoring (by 2.0 ppg)
#1 in field goals made
#1 in blocks
#1 in PIE (an estimate of the player’s statistical contributions while on the court in relation to the game totals. If all players and teams performed equally, player PIE Ratings would be 10% and teams would be 50%)
#3 in field goal percentage
#9 in rebounding

Griner played 26 (of 34) games last year, which hurt her candidacy for MVP. She very likely could have won the award had she played the entire season. And she played last year without DeWanna Bonner (pregnancy) and Candice Dupree (traded), not to mention the retirement of Penny Taylor. Minnesota, by contrast, still had Maya Moore plus Lindsay Whalen, Seimone Augustus, Rebekkah Brunson, and Sylvia Fowles; LA, by contrast, still had Candace Parker and Nneka Ogwumike, Chelsea Gray, and DPOY Alana Beard. Griner did all of this, notwithstanding having less talented teammates (outside of Diana Taurasi) and the increased focus on her because of the lack of production/star power among the rest of the Phoenix roster.

Still doesn't change that she has only won 1 championship. She broke records at BU, she won national awards etc. So what's your point? My point is, they say she should have won more National Championships, but yet in WNBA she has only won 1 Championship in the 4 years in both. So maybe it goes past just blaming a coach. That was my point. Never said she sucked or wasn't good. In both leagues she had an other amazing guard and has accomplished about the same at both levels.

 

[SCGamecock]

my question is why does Dawn have such a hard time recruiting more of the best four year players to such a big time program?

Probably because she’s recruiting against UConn, Notre Dame, Maryland, Baylor, Tennessee, etc...

 

[j66kicker]

Probably because she’s recruiting against UConn, Notre Dame, Maryland, Baylor, Tennessee, etc...

OK she was an elite college, pro and Olympic player, coached last year's NC team, had this year's overall #1 WNBA draft choice, and she's senior national team coach. What more possible advantage could she have?

 

[bballnut90]

So when you have another Top caliber team that you have already beat 3x, it is not easy to beat a 4th. Currently every time we beat Texas I get more nervous. After you play a team twice you know them pretty well. A great example is this years Miss State team. Didn't they loose to South Carolina? Also, UConn handily beat ND with "more talent" this year, but yet lost later in this season. So why is expected to beat a top team 4 times in one year and within weeks of another? I'm sorry, but I totally disagree. BU should have won in 13 however, that game against Louisville was awful!!! Let's see Tenn beat a top 10 team 4x times in a matter of 3-4 months.

Also, it seems hypocritical that we want more parody upsets etc, but when it happens we blame coaches for holding standards. So do we want them to be upset to keep it interesting or all the seeds to when accordingly to their seed?

A&M was a good team and obviously went on to win it all, but Baylor should’ve at least made that game more competitive. A&M didn’t play the game of their life and won the game pretty handily IIRC.

And the SC/ND examples....Mississippi State had one bad game all year and that was the SC game. It wasn’t in the NCAAs and they were not expected to be better than SC coming into the season. And UCONN didn’t handily beat ND, they were down double digits in the 4th and needed a big comeback to win the game. And in the semifinals they fought like h*** to tie the game when down by 5 late in regulation and in OT.

And I love parity in women’s basketball, it creates more unpredictability and exciting games. However, when a team that’s consistently ranked quite high loses year after year to less talented teams, that’s a coaching issue. Griner was the most dominant force women’s college basketball had ever seen and when paired with a 3x All American guard, they only made one Final Four. Even if she faltered in 2011 and 2013 but managed to make a couple of Final Fours between 2014-2018, I’m sure fans can come up with an excuse for the shortcomings in each season, but keep in mind there are Tennessee fans making the same excuses for Holly so I’m not sure that’s the best angle to take. I’d give her a lot more credit if she snuck into a couple more of them, but she’s always come up short despite having Final Four talent each year. That’s a coaching knock. She consistently hasn’t lived up to expectations the last 6 years while other coaches are exceeding expectations year in year out.

 

[Checkmate]

 

[Reypl21]

Still doesn't change that she has only won 1 championship. She broke records at BU, she won national awards etc. So what's your point? My point is, they say she should have won more National Championships, but yet in WNBA she has only won 1 Championship in the 4 years in both. So maybe it goes past just blaming a coach. That was my point. Never said she sucked or wasn't good. In both leagues she had an other amazing guard and has accomplished about the same at both levels.

It may or may not be Mulkey. But Griner was a force WCBB had never seen, by the end of her career. She had so much impact on the floor. She was surrounded by great talent at Baylor.
If she played more games last year, and if PHX was more successful she would have won MVP.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but Griner owned Fowles when she was with the Sky. I will tell you that I think it's flakey to have 4 Olympians on one team. But the Lynx had to acquire Sylvia in order to beat the Mercury.
I predict that Griner will be way better than Fowles. Fowles has to have a stacked starting 5 to be her best (last year's MVP) but Griner had similar number last year without Dewanna Bonner.
Back to your point, I get that you are sticking up for Mulkey, but trying to make a point that Griner is to blame is dumb. Maybe she could have done something in her time at Baylor to get another FF, but what else could she do? The teams that beat her had a strategy, and Mulkey didn't have any counters. She just thought people would be afraid. And don't even get me started about last year's Baylor.
However, this new class should be promising. I hope you enjoy yourself watching next year's team. There is always some fun when watching new basketball seasons, especially when they are highly coveted

 

[sivad40]

Note that Griner has only won 1 WNBA Championship since she entered the league in 2013 and has not been an MVP either. So do you blame the coaching or the player? Everyone has to shift these days, so is it fair that from the ages of 18-22 Mulkey could only get that out of her. While in WNBA 23-27 years of age entering this season while playing alongside one of the GOATs has only won 1 national championship. So I think it comes down to the the player or the fact that the we have sooo many talented players and amazing coaches.

IMO, Griner should be a better rebounder than she currently is. Griner was either content or had no choice but to be the third/fourth option on offense during her first four seasons in the WNBA. She finally step her offensive game this past season with Bonner and Dupree no longer there and Taurasi declining in production.

I think KM issues are that she has too many one dimensional players and her teams are too dependent on those type of players.

 

[caramel]

Sorry, I pay close attention to UConn and ND. So I feel like I catch myself speaking about ND a lot on here, because UConn is obviously well covered.

Nothing wrong with that. Passion for one's favorite teams or players can be part of the thoughts and information coming forth in defending a response or enlightening all of us. Truly, I wish more people in this country had some passion in their activities and daily routines.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

my question is why does Dawn have such a hard time recruiting more of the best four year players to such a big time program?

Well, she did land the #1 PG in the nation and another top 50 player, but if I had to pinpoint an answer for you this past year it would have something to do with being in the final two on the last two recruits with UConn.

 

[SCspur]

Well, she did land the #1 PG in the nation and another top 50 player, but if I had to pinpoint an answer for you this past year it would have something to do with being in the final two on the last two recruits with UConn.

Let’s not forget Saxton was top 25 in all other recruiting services.