Transfer Thread Pt 2.....

[triaddukefan]

we should transfer this talk to another thread


Perhaps as final exams are being completed...... news of more transfers will be announced....... hopefully none from Durham County

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Note that Griner has only won 1 WNBA Championship since she entered the league in 2013 and has not been an MVP either. So do you blame the coaching or the player? Everyone has to shift these days, so is it fair that from the ages of 18-22 Mulkey could only get that out of her. While in WNBA 23-27 years of age entering this season while playing alongside one of the GOATs has only won 1 national championship. So I think it comes down to the the player or the fact that the we have sooo many talented players and amazing coaches.

My comments and observations about Griner, from earlier in this thread:

In just five WNBA seasons, Griner has accomplished the following:

• 4× WNBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
• WNBA scoring champion (2017)
• 5× WNBA blocks leader (2013–2017)
• WNBA Peak Performer (2017)
• All-WNBA First Team (2014)
• 2× All-WNBA Second Team (2015, 2017)
• 2× WNBA Defensive Player of the Year Award (2014, 2015)
• 2× WNBA All-Defensive First Team (2014, 2015)
• 2× WNBA All-Defensive Second Team (2016, 2017)

In just five years, Griner ranks 8th all-time in the history of the league in total blocks and #1 in blocks per game. And in her fifth year, despite being injured for a good portion of he season, she still lead the league in scoring (offense) and blocks (defense).

As an aside, despite only have 1 WNBA Championship, Griner's teams have made at least the Conference Finals/Playoff Semi-Finals EVERY year. So her teams have been in the "final four" every single year -- and one of those years was WITHOUT Diana Taurasi AND Penny Taylor.

Last year, Griner averaged 21.9 ppg, 7.6 rpg, and 2.5 bpg, while shooting 57.7 percent from the floor and 81.5 percent from the foul line. These were her numbers:

#1 in the WNBA in scoring (by 2.0 ppg)
#1 in field goals made
#1 in blocks
#1 in PIE (an estimate of the player’s statistical contributions while on the court in relation to the game totals. If all players and teams performed equally, player PIE Ratings would be 10% and teams would be 50%)
#3 in field goal percentage
#9 in rebounding

Griner played 26 (of 34) games last year, which hurt her candidacy for MVP. She very likely could have won the award had she played the entire season. And she played last year without DeWanna Bonner (pregnancy) and Candice Dupree (traded), not to mention the retirement of Penny Taylor. Minnesota, by contrast, still had Maya Moore plus Lindsay Whalen, Seimone Augustus, Rebekkah Brunson, and Sylvia Fowles; LA, by contrast, still had Candace Parker and Nneka Ogwumike, Chelsea Gray, and DPOY Alana Beard. Griner did all of this, notwithstanding having less talented teammates (outside of Diana Taurasi) and the increased focus on her because of the lack of production/star power among the rest of the Phoenix roster.

 

[triaddukefan]

@CamrnCrz1974

Everytime I see you post in this thread.... my heart skips a beat.

Lemme log off and calm down a bit

 

[southie]

I guess this thread about Transfers got de-railed as s couple of posters became upset that Danni Williams chose to transfer to Texas; at least I think that's when it began.

 

[Charliebball]

 

[DallasBUFan]

My comments and observations about Griner, from earlier in this thread:

In just five WNBA seasons, Griner has accomplished the following:

• 4× WNBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
• WNBA scoring champion (2017)
• 5× WNBA blocks leader (2013–2017)
• WNBA Peak Performer (2017)
• All-WNBA First Team (2014)
• 2× All-WNBA Second Team (2015, 2017)
• 2× WNBA Defensive Player of the Year Award (2014, 2015)
• 2× WNBA All-Defensive First Team (2014, 2015)
• 2× WNBA All-Defensive Second Team (2016, 2017)

In just five years, Griner ranks 8th all-time in the history of the league in total blocks and #1 in blocks per game. And in her fifth year, despite being injured for a good portion of he season, she still lead the league in scoring (offense) and blocks (defense).

As an aside, despite only have 1 WNBA Championship, Griner's teams have made at least the Conference Finals/Playoff Semi-Finals EVERY year. So her teams have been in the "final four" every single year -- and one of those years was WITHOUT Diana Taurasi AND Penny Taylor.

Last year, Griner averaged 21.9 ppg, 7.6 rpg, and 2.5 bpg, while shooting 57.7 percent from the floor and 81.5 percent from the foul line. These were her numbers:

#1 in the WNBA in scoring (by 2.0 ppg)
#1 in field goals made
#1 in blocks
#1 in PIE (an estimate of the player’s statistical contributions while on the court in relation to the game totals. If all players and teams performed equally, player PIE Ratings would be 10% and teams would be 50%)
#3 in field goal percentage
#9 in rebounding

Griner played 26 (of 34) games last year, which hurt her candidacy for MVP. She very likely could have won the award had she played the entire season. And she played last year without DeWanna Bonner (pregnancy) and Candice Dupree (traded), not to mention the retirement of Penny Taylor. Minnesota, by contrast, still had Maya Moore plus Lindsay Whalen, Seimone Augustus, Rebekkah Brunson, and Sylvia Fowles; LA, by contrast, still had Candace Parker and Nneka Ogwumike, Chelsea Gray, and DPOY Alana Beard. Griner did all of this, notwithstanding having less talented teammates (outside of Diana Taurasi) and the increased focus on her because of the lack of production/star power among the rest of the Phoenix roster.

Still doesn't change that she has only won 1 championship. She broke records at BU, she won national awards etc. So what's your point? My point is, they say she should have won more National Championships, but yet in WNBA she has only won 1 Championship in the 4 years in both. So maybe it goes past just blaming a coach. That was my point. Never said she sucked or wasn't good. In both leagues she had an other amazing guard and has accomplished about the same at both levels.

 

[SCGamecock]

my question is why does Dawn have such a hard time recruiting more of the best four year players to such a big time program?

Probably because she’s recruiting against UConn, Notre Dame, Maryland, Baylor, Tennessee, etc...

 

[j66kicker]

Probably because she’s recruiting against UConn, Notre Dame, Maryland, Baylor, Tennessee, etc...

OK she was an elite college, pro and Olympic player, coached last year's NC team, had this year's overall #1 WNBA draft choice, and she's senior national team coach. What more possible advantage could she have?

 

[bballnut90]

So when you have another Top caliber team that you have already beat 3x, it is not easy to beat a 4th. Currently every time we beat Texas I get more nervous. After you play a team twice you know them pretty well. A great example is this years Miss State team. Didn't they loose to South Carolina? Also, UConn handily beat ND with "more talent" this year, but yet lost later in this season. So why is expected to beat a top team 4 times in one year and within weeks of another? I'm sorry, but I totally disagree. BU should have won in 13 however, that game against Louisville was awful!!! Let's see Tenn beat a top 10 team 4x times in a matter of 3-4 months.

Also, it seems hypocritical that we want more parody upsets etc, but when it happens we blame coaches for holding standards. So do we want them to be upset to keep it interesting or all the seeds to when accordingly to their seed?

A&M was a good team and obviously went on to win it all, but Baylor should’ve at least made that game more competitive. A&M didn’t play the game of their life and won the game pretty handily IIRC.

And the SC/ND examples....Mississippi State had one bad game all year and that was the SC game. It wasn’t in the NCAAs and they were not expected to be better than SC coming into the season. And UCONN didn’t handily beat ND, they were down double digits in the 4th and needed a big comeback to win the game. And in the semifinals they fought like h*** to tie the game when down by 5 late in regulation and in OT.

And I love parity in women’s basketball, it creates more unpredictability and exciting games. However, when a team that’s consistently ranked quite high loses year after year to less talented teams, that’s a coaching issue. Griner was the most dominant force women’s college basketball had ever seen and when paired with a 3x All American guard, they only made one Final Four. Even if she faltered in 2011 and 2013 but managed to make a couple of Final Fours between 2014-2018, I’m sure fans can come up with an excuse for the shortcomings in each season, but keep in mind there are Tennessee fans making the same excuses for Holly so I’m not sure that’s the best angle to take. I’d give her a lot more credit if she snuck into a couple more of them, but she’s always come up short despite having Final Four talent each year. That’s a coaching knock. She consistently hasn’t lived up to expectations the last 6 years while other coaches are exceeding expectations year in year out.

 

[Checkmate]

 

[Reypl21]

Still doesn't change that she has only won 1 championship. She broke records at BU, she won national awards etc. So what's your point? My point is, they say she should have won more National Championships, but yet in WNBA she has only won 1 Championship in the 4 years in both. So maybe it goes past just blaming a coach. That was my point. Never said she sucked or wasn't good. In both leagues she had an other amazing guard and has accomplished about the same at both levels.

It may or may not be Mulkey. But Griner was a force WCBB had never seen, by the end of her career. She had so much impact on the floor. She was surrounded by great talent at Baylor.
If she played more games last year, and if PHX was more successful she would have won MVP.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but Griner owned Fowles when she was with the Sky. I will tell you that I think it's flakey to have 4 Olympians on one team. But the Lynx had to acquire Sylvia in order to beat the Mercury.
I predict that Griner will be way better than Fowles. Fowles has to have a stacked starting 5 to be her best (last year's MVP) but Griner had similar number last year without Dewanna Bonner.
Back to your point, I get that you are sticking up for Mulkey, but trying to make a point that Griner is to blame is dumb. Maybe she could have done something in her time at Baylor to get another FF, but what else could she do? The teams that beat her had a strategy, and Mulkey didn't have any counters. She just thought people would be afraid. And don't even get me started about last year's Baylor.
However, this new class should be promising. I hope you enjoy yourself watching next year's team. There is always some fun when watching new basketball seasons, especially when they are highly coveted

 

[sivad40]

Note that Griner has only won 1 WNBA Championship since she entered the league in 2013 and has not been an MVP either. So do you blame the coaching or the player? Everyone has to shift these days, so is it fair that from the ages of 18-22 Mulkey could only get that out of her. While in WNBA 23-27 years of age entering this season while playing alongside one of the GOATs has only won 1 national championship. So I think it comes down to the the player or the fact that the we have sooo many talented players and amazing coaches.

IMO, Griner should be a better rebounder than she currently is. Griner was either content or had no choice but to be the third/fourth option on offense during her first four seasons in the WNBA. She finally step her offensive game this past season with Bonner and Dupree no longer there and Taurasi declining in production.

I think KM issues are that she has too many one dimensional players and her teams are too dependent on those type of players.

 

[caramel]

Sorry, I pay close attention to UConn and ND. So I feel like I catch myself speaking about ND a lot on here, because UConn is obviously well covered.

Nothing wrong with that. Passion for one's favorite teams or players can be part of the thoughts and information coming forth in defending a response or enlightening all of us. Truly, I wish more people in this country had some passion in their activities and daily routines.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

my question is why does Dawn have such a hard time recruiting more of the best four year players to such a big time program?

Well, she did land the #1 PG in the nation and another top 50 player, but if I had to pinpoint an answer for you this past year it would have something to do with being in the final two on the last two recruits with UConn.

 

[SCspur]

Well, she did land the #1 PG in the nation and another top 50 player, but if I had to pinpoint an answer for you this past year it would have something to do with being in the final two on the last two recruits with UConn.

Let’s not forget Saxton was top 25 in all other recruiting services.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Let’s not forget Saxton was top 25 in all other recruiting services.

To which services are you referring?

Victaria Saxton rankings:

25th in Prospects Nation
38th in Blue Star
39th in All Star Girls Report
47th in Hoopgurlz

 

[SCspur]

To which services are you referring?

Victaria Saxton rankings:

25th in Prospects Nation
38th in Blue Star
39th in All Star Girls Report
47th in Hoopgurlz

A couple of months ago she was rated 23 and 27 respectively by Blue Star and ASGR. The rankings must have change since then. Hoopgurlz didn’t even have her rated last summer until her eybl squad won the Nike nationals. Either way she’s vastly underrated, as I’ve seen her go up against both Collier and Prince and out perform both as well as Shakira Austin and Aquira DeCosta.

 

[SCGamecock]

OK she was an elite college, pro and Olympic player, coached last year's NC team, had this year's overall #1 WNBA draft choice, and she's senior national team coach. What more possible advantage could she have?

Besides her own playing career, most of the accomplishments you listed have occurred within the last year or so.

The schools I’ve listed have been good for way longer than a year, or 5, or 10... SC is not a traditional power yet. In WBB, the elite kids still trend to the powers. Dawn will get hers or enough of what she needs to put a competitive team on the floor, but anybody expecting her to suddenly light it up in recruiting is naive. Now, I do believe that day will come where Dawn will become the favorite in recruiting more often than not, but she’s not there yet.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

@sivad40 , I am going to address your arguments point by point, though I am not sure when I turned into Griner's biggest defender/champion on this board (especially given the number of pBaylor fans who are prominent posters here)!

IMO, Griner should be a better rebounder than she currently is.

A few additional facts about Griner, to address the rebounding argument:

• In five seasons, she ranks eighth on WNBA’s all-time blocks list (487), second among active players behind ten-year pro Sylvia Fowles (532) entering 2018
• She holds the WNBA records for blocks in a single game (11), blocks in a season (129), single-season block average (4.04) and career block average (3.31)

Griner is blocking 3.3 shots per game, for her career. She is blocking shots at a pace that is UNPARALLELED in WNBA history. Should she also be getting the rebounds of the shots that she blocks? Now, could she be more aggressive on the glass? Yes. But simply saying she should be a better rebounder by looking at numbers without considering what she does with blocked shots (not to mention the countless shots that are altered or even not taken because of her mere presence) is unfair to the player and doses a disservice to her accomplishments.

Griner was either content or had no choice but to be the third/fourth option on offense during her first four seasons in the WNBA.

This not quite accurate.

• In 2014 - Griner's second year in the WNBA - she ranked 10th in the entire WNBA in scoring (and second on her team, only 0.6 ppg behind Diana Taurasi).
• In 2015, Griner ranked 8th in the WNBA in scoring (and second on her team, 0.7 ppg behind DeWanna Bonner).
• In 2016, she slipped to 13th in the WNBA in scoring, but was still second on the Mercury in ppg (behind Taurasi).

Griner was not content to be the 3rd or 4th option; she was a primary/go-to player in the post and often times "Option 1B" (to Diana Taurasi's "Option 1A").

She finally step her offensive game this past season with Bonner and Dupree no longer there and Taurasi declining in production.

This is not quite accurate (the part about "finally" stepping up her offensive game), as set forth in my previous comment. When she was in the top ten in the entire WNBA in scoring in just her second season (not to mention her third season), I am not sure what you mean when you imply that she had not "step[ped] up" on the offensive end of the floor.

Can she step up more? Certainly - and she did that in 2017, as you noted. But she has been a top player on the offensive end of the floor for some time now.

 

[CocoHusky]

Back from Russia, Griner sets sight on title, MVP

"Statistically, last year was Griner's best."

 

[MilfordHusky]

Recent WNBA draftee Loryn Goodwin from Oklahoma State went to 4 schools. Started North Texas with Karen Aston, then Aston left for UT before she suited up, but was Sun Belt Freshmen of the Year. Then transferred to Butler, but that coaching staff was let go after some claims of verbal abuse arose before she suited up. She said the new coaching staff played a style of offense that didn't mesh with her skillset, so she then transferred to UT-San Antonio, where she became Conference USA Newcomer of the Year, and applied for an extra year of eligibility and was granted it but UTSA did not have her chosen masters major after graduating so she transferred to Oklahoma State, where she won Big-12 Newcomer of the Year and was 1st Team all Big-12.

That's the most prominent and recent four school player I could think of.

Freshman of the Year once and Newcomer of the Year twice. Is that good or bad?

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Back from Russia, Griner sets sight on title, MVP

"Statistically, last year was Griner's best."

Also from the article:
She became the first true center to lead the WNBA in scoring with a career-high 21.9 points per game, shooting 57 percent from the field.

Not Lisa Leslie. Not Yolanda Griffith. Not Sylvia Fowles.
Brittney Griner did this.

On another note (compared to her peers who are prolific scorers), Griner's 21.9 ppg last year was a better average for a season than Candace Parker (10 seasons played), Tina Charles (8 seasons played), and Angel McCoughtry (8 seasons played; sat out last year) have ever had.

 

[Charliebball]

Also from the article:
She became the first true center to lead the WNBA in scoring with a career-high 21.9 points per game, shooting 57 percent from the field.

Not Lisa Leslie. Not Yolanda Griffith. Not Sylvia Fowles.
Brittney Griner did this.

On another note (compared to her peers who are prolific scorers), Griner's 21.9 ppg last year was a better average for a season than Candace Parker (10 seasons played), Tina Charles (8 seasons played), and Angel McCoughtry (8 seasons played; sat out last year) have ever had.

OK...........to sum this up Griner is sometimes good............... sometimes great...........could be even better............thank you..........

 

[j66kicker]

Also from the article:
She became the first true center to lead the WNBA in scoring with a career-high 21.9 points per game, shooting 57 percent from the field.

Not Lisa Leslie. Not Yolanda Griffith. Not Sylvia Fowles.
Brittney Griner did this.

On another note (compared to her peers who are prolific scorers), Griner's 21.9 ppg last year was a better average for a season than Candace Parker (10 seasons played), Tina Charles (8 seasons played), and Angel McCoughtry (8 seasons played; sat out last year) have ever had.

Where the heck is ETT? He would LOVE your take on BG!!

Wait - Maybe your scarce BY posting during ETT's "prolific" era... (Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm...") ??

 

[Blueberries]

I don't understand why when I see new transfer posts I get all excited, then there are 20+ new posts about Griner.... who definitely isn't transferring to Storrs..... sad.

 

[Reypl21]

Where the heck is ETT? He would LOVE your take on BG!!

Wait - Maybe your scarce BY posting during ETT's "prolific" era... (Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm...") ??

I apologize for asking, but I never read anything on here about it. What happened to ETT?

 

[j66kicker]

I apologize for asking, but I never read anything on here about it. What happened to ETT?

?? His profile says he was last seen Feb 16. I kinda miss him, but Cam is trying to take up the slack on Griner love

 

[sivad40]

Back from Russia, Griner sets sight on title, MVP

"Statistically, last year was Griner's best."

And I still think she should be better at rebounding. I stand by that.

I see Howard still hasn't made her decision yet, or hasn't made it publicly known.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

A few additional facts about Griner, to address the rebounding argument:

• In five seasons, she ranks eighth on WNBA’s all-time blocks list (487), second among active players behind ten-year pro Sylvia Fowles (532) entering 2018
• She holds the WNBA records for blocks in a single game (11), blocks in a season (129), single-season block average (4.04) and career block average (3.31)

Griner is blocking 3.3 shots per game, for her career. She is blocking shots at a pace that is UNPARALLELED in WNBA history. Should she also be getting the rebounds of the shots that she blocks?

Also from the article:
She became the first true center to lead the WNBA in scoring with a career-high 21.9 points per game, shooting 57 percent from the field.

And I still think she should be better at rebounding. I stand by that.

And again, I ask -- should she be leading the entire league in scoring (at an average unprecedented for a center) AND blocking shots at such a prolific rate AND still getting all of those rebounds?

Should she also serve the popcorn and other concessions, during the timeouts?

Do we want anyone else on the court to do anything?

 

[Centerstream]

I don't understand why when I see new transfer posts I get all excited, then there are 20+ new posts about Griner.... who definitely isn't transferring to Storrs..... sad.

I am still waiting to read where Griner is transferring to (I am guessing it's the Golden Domers because, well, they are Notre Dame) and whether or not she have to sit out a year. Or maybe she's a graduate transfer.