Top prospects for 2021....ESPN

[visitingcock]

Ok, you forced my hand! will you take top 30 of each services? I realize the rankings are based towards Blue Star top 30 and yes, the other 4 services do not have the same players/names in top 30...so because you thanked me for my hard work I have gone the extra mile with this new one. I have taken top 30 players from each of the 5 services and went to work to come up with this new one. (In my earlier reply to you I said "yes divide by 3". I don't think that was a true statement...if Excel sees only 2 or 3 rankings per player I'm assuming it averages out based on them 2 or 3...but now I believe this to be more to your liking. (again this one is based on top 30 of each ranking service)

...another disclaimer: there will be no more adjustments to this composite result.
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MORE than a simple "like" is due. All Hail mbr33ct! I do not expect you to do any more work. You have worked your buttocks off on this.

But, nitpicker me must admit that # 23, Taylor Bigby, has a more impressive looking ranking resume (with 5 Top 30 rankings) than #15, my beloved Bree Hall (with only one).

Thank you
Thank you
Thank you

However, I still think the Top 18 of your previous list is the best and most accurate ranking because it is purely Top 30 players by ALL services.. I will "steal" that list and use it elsewhere - with your permission.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

And the services recognize that. Thus, a prospect who is being actively pursued by UConn and the other Top contenders is going to be more highly rated when that interest becomes apparent. Let's call it "the contender bump." UConn is the prime contender, but it applies to SCar, Baylor, Maryland, Notre Dame, Stanford.etc. Maybe even Oregon now.

I will freely admit that the recent ESPN ranking's rise of Scar's commits was a "contender bump." I've seen it in football for decades with Bama, Ohio State, etc where it's not just ESPN bumping but powerful recruiting services like 247 and Rivals. But, let's keep in mind that ESPN is biased toward teams that it will be televising

In fairness to South Carolina commits, Rivers, Johnson, and Feagin were consensus Top 20 players before they committed.

Hall's rise at ESPN to #26 also predated her South Carolina commitment.

While I think I would probably enjoy there to be a national bias towards overrating South Carolina teams and players and recruits, I'm not sure I've really seen any previous indication of that.

Maybe this is the beginning of it, but I'm not really sure who the new group doing ratings are and why they'd be especially pro Carolinas (North and South).

 

[Watchdog]

Well, this ranking does follow a (shortned) Summer of AAU competition, so re-ranking was probably in order anyway. But, yeah, you have a good point about it being different gur's/opinions.

You can bet we're gonna' "crow about it" though. It's what we do!

Don't come in here "half-cocked" unless you're prepared to "eat crow".

 

[visitingcock]

In fairness to South Carolina commits, Rivers, Johnson, and Feagin were consensus Top 20 players before they committed.

Hall's rise at ESPN to #26 also predated her South Carolina commitment.

While I think I would probably enjoy there to be a national bias towards overrating South Carolina teams and players and recruits, I'm not sure I've really seen any previous indication of that.

Maybe this is the beginning of it, but I'm not really sure who the new group doing ratings are and why they'd be especially pro Carolinas (North and South).

Hall's rise to 14 is new,
Johnson's rise to 2 is new.

Both rises might be described as metoric.

The bias is just now arising because of a media perception that we are now a "contender program." In 2017, that perception did not exist even though we were very good. We may have been perceived as a "contender team" for the year, but we were not perceived as a "contender program" for the coming yearS.

Oh yes, I do believe we have the best class in the country, at least until Azi commits. If she chooses UConn (as I suspect) the argument is ON.

 

[CocoHusky]

Hall's rise to 14 is new,
Johnson's rise to 2 is new.
Both rises might be described as metoric.
The bias is just now arising because of a media perception that we are now a "contender program." In 2017, that perception did not exist even though we were very good. We may have been perceived as a "contender team" for the year, but we were not perceived as a "contender program" for the coming yearS.

Perhaps I'm not understanding your though here with regards to "contender program" If any part of the rise (or fall) of a player in the rankings is due strictly to the school they have signed with that is flat out wrong & absurd IMO.

 

[visitingcock]

Perhaps I'm not understanding your though here with regards to "contender program" If any part of the rise (or fall) of a player in the rankings is due strictly to the school they have signed with that is flat out wrong & absurd IMO.

It might be wrong, but I believe it to be real. I have seen it all too often in football through the years. A 3 star commits to Bama or Ohio State (or now Clemson), and he becomes a high 4 star overnight.

Is it completely unjustified? Perhaps not. Saban is an outstanding talent evaluator and doesn't hand out "commitable" offers like candy. Thus, the recruiting services are trusting in his proven judgment. Same could be said for Geno. Heck, in football a relatively confirmable offer from a top 5 contender will cause a ratings jump if there is reason to believe the offer is backed up by official visits or an in home visit by a head coach.

 

[jumpstart]

Hall's rise to 14 is new,
Johnson's rise to 2 is new.

Both rises might be described as metoric.

The bias is just now arising because of a media perception that we are now a "contender program." In 2017, that perception did not exist even though we were very good. We may have been perceived as a "contender team" for the year, but we were not perceived as a "contender program" for the coming yearS.

Oh yes, I do believe we have the best class in the country, at least until Azi commits. If she chooses UConn (as I suspect) the argument is ON.

Now I have heard it all. Players get ranked based on who they commit to and only if that team is a contender ? That is an absurd statement at best. There were some players who did participate in summer league games and those are the ones that got to tout their advanced skills. You rate them on their performance and if some moved up, it was because there was more information to evaluate those players. The summer leagues would have reset the rankings regardless. The top players are usually about right. I would argue that Boston was the No.1 player in her class based on the year she had...but she wasn't the No. 1 player in her class....They are subjective...but only a little bit subjective....

 

[j66kicker]

Perhaps I'm not understanding your though here with regards to "contender program" If any part of the rise (or fall) of a player in the rankings is due strictly to the school they have signed with that is flat out wrong & absurd IMO.

Regardless of what you think is wrong or absurd, this absolutely does happen. The most pronounced (in WBB) is with UConn commits. My (undocumented) observation/perception is that, unless you're already top 5, committing to UConn is worth up to a 50% bump (i.e #30 goes to #15, #17 goes to #8, etc.)

 

[Jibariqua]

My only issue with R. Johnson being ranked #2 is Premier announced back in July that she would be top 3 at the end of the summer. How could they possibly know how the entire class was going to play this summer at the beginning of the season?

 

[CocoHusky]

Regardless of what you think is wrong or absurd, this absolutely does happen. The most pronounced (in WBB) is with UConn commits. My (undocumented) observation/perception is that, unless you're already top 5, committing to UConn is worth up to a 50% bump (i.e #30 goes to #15, #17 goes to #8, etc.)

Let's move from these undocumented perceptions to keeping it real and naming names.
I'll start with Amari Deberry who was #2 Player in the class when she committed to UCONN. Then I want to talk about Aubrey Griffin. Followed by AEH, Lexi Gordon. Moving on to Napheesa Collier & Boykin,& Coombs.
Courtney Ekmark & Saniya Chong name should come into play also. My perception is that these players rose of ( mostly) fell for reasons unrelated to their UCONN signing.

 

[visitingcock]

Let's move from these undocumented perceptions to keeping it real and naming names.
I'll start with Amari Deberry who was #2 Player in the class when she committed to UCONN. Then I want to talk about Aubrey Griffin. Followed by AEH, Lexi Gordon. Moving on to Napheesa Collier & Boykin,& Coombs.
Courtney Ekmark & Saniya Chong name should come into play also. My perception is that these players rose of ( mostly) fell for reasons unrelated to their UCONN signing.

Well, you need to buy a roll of aluminum foil and make some hats to protect you from the BIG CONSPIRACY. ESPN has taken over your mind. I'm safe.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Hall's rise to 14 is new,
Johnson's rise to 2 is new.

Both rises might be described as metoric.

The bias is just now arising because of a media perception that we are now a "contender program." In 2017, that perception did not exist even though we were very good. We may have been perceived as a "contender team" for the year, but we were not perceived as a "contender program" for the coming yearS.

Oh yes, I do believe we have the best class in the country, at least until Azi commits. If she chooses UConn (as I suspect) the argument is ON.

I just don't think that's really what is happening.

It'd be nice if players got vaulted to the top of the ranking (in a way) just by committing to South Carolina, but I think that's probably not at all what is happening here.

Unless there is some reason why these particular evaluators love South Carolina or Dawn Staley that I'm not aware of (and again no reason to think that they do).

Johnson and Hall have pretty documentable improvements and performances. Feagin has always been one of the best Fs to most people. Rivers is pretty much consensus where she is.

Johnson all the way to #2 is pretty surprising, but that's the only real surprise here to me. And she was MVP of two tourneys this summer and has improved her 3pt shooting dramatically. And she started from 12-20.

 

[sivad40]

The meltdowns over these ratings are hilarious.

 

[jumpstart]

Well, you need to buy a roll of aluminum foil and make some hats to protect you from the BIG CONSPIRACY. ESPN has taken over your mind. I'm safe.

View attachment 58592

You are the one buying the conspiracy novel. You think because you.....someone who has no evaluation skills nor is involved in high school basketball teams or camps data.....is more informed than those who actually do it professionally ? ESPN won't get it perfect...but I would trust them and their sources over you and your boxed in views.....any day ! You are the one who is not dealing with real data...not them or CocoHusky !!!!

 

[sivad40]

You are the one buying the conspiracy novel. You think because you.....someone who has no evaluation skills nor is involved in high school basketball teams or camps data.....is more informed than those who actually do it professionally ? ESPN won't get it perfect...but I would trust them and their sources over you and your boxed in views.....any day ! You are the one who is not dealing with real data...not them or CocoHusky !!!!

If you go back to first 2 or 3 pages of this thread, visitingcock wasn't the only poster that was having conspiracy theories about ESPN or Premier Basketball favoring ACC and SEC commits over others.

 

[bluedevil]

The Truth Is Out There...

 

[visitingcock]

You are the one buying the conspiracy novel. You think because you.....someone who has no evaluation skills nor is involved in high school basketball teams or camps data.....is more informed than those who actually do it professionally ? ESPN won't get it perfect...but I would trust them and their sources over you and your boxed in views.....any day ! You are the one who is not dealing with real data...not them or CocoHusky !!!!

My tinfoil hat post was an attempt at SELF-DEPRECATING humor. I meant no offense to CocoHusky - who is a great poster and with whom I have enjoyed numerous conversations. I would go back and edit to blue font if I could. (Does blue font indicate sarcastic humor on this board?) Apparently you can't edit after someone has responded /quoted a post.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Changing the ratings of players who have committed is sorta like kissing your sister.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Changing the ratings of players who have committed is sorta like kissing your sister.

But in this case the previous ratings didn't represent what the PBR folks think of the class. Not surprising they'd want to post their own.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

But in this case the previous ratings didn't represent what the PBR folks think of the class. Not surprising they'd want to post their own.

Good point.

 

[UConnCat]

But in this case the previous ratings didn't represent what the PBR folks think of the class. Not surprising they'd want to post their own.

It is surprising actually. The class they're rating is more than 90% committed. They can't help but be influenced by the commitments. Plus, a new rating service will always be motivated to distinguish themselves from their predecessor. If PBR had introduced themselves by rating the 2022 class would anyone be asking why they didn't go back and rate the 2021 class? Of course not.

 

[Jibariqua]

It is surprising actually. The class they're rating is more than 90% committed. They can't help but be influenced by the commitments. Plus, a new rating service will always be motivated to distinguish themselves from their predecessor. If PBR had introduced themselves by rating the 2022 class would anyone be asking why they didn't go back and rate the 2021 class? Of course not.

PBR has had 2021 Class rankings for years. It’s just now they are public.

 

[UConnCat]

PBR has had 2021 Class rankings for years. It’s just now they are public.

Thanks. Doesn't change my point. Their first public class ranking under the ESPN banner is a class that is >90 committed.

 

[UconnMark]

I believe that Shakespeare wrote a play many years ago about the folly of the women's basketball player rankings. If I remember correctly, he called it "Much Ado About Nothing". Smart guy, that Shakespeare.

 

[HopJim]

I believe that Shakespeare wrote a play many years ago about the folly of the women's basketball player rankings. If I remember correctly, he called it "Much Ado About Nothing". Smart guy, that Shakespeare.

Perfect post. While most of us on this board spend significant time focused on women's college basketball, we are in a VERY small minority of the sports world. Few writers truly understand the sport so when a player gets offers, they get on the radar and they get ranked When they get interest from the top teams, their ranking goes up. When they commit to a top team, they get even more notice and sometimes their ranking goes up. Not a lot of independent thought out there by the writers and sports "analysists."