Top prospects for 2021....ESPN | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Top prospects for 2021....ESPN

I just think ESPN has become a corrupt, bloated bureaucracy that can no longer be trusted. They seem (imo) to be more interested in what benefits their brand than objectivity and truth. They are no longer willing to make the tough call but rather seem to take the least controversial path every time. When you start choosing your bottom line over truth and objectivity, you have lost your way.

They lost all objectivity years ago when it was blatantly obvious they were rooting for SEC schools in all the non revenue sports (let alone football, their bias there is monumental).
 
I just think ESPN has become a corrupt, bloated bureaucracy that can no longer be trusted. They seem (imo) to be more interested in what benefits their brand than objectivity and truth. They are no longer willing to make the tough call but rather seem to take the least controversial path every time. When you start choosing your bottom line over truth and objectivity, you have lost your way.
It's funny when a particular fan base accuses ESPN of being corrupt and bias...only...and again...only....if their players are being ranked lower. The fact that it is subjective is true but ESPN has done a pretty good job over the years ranking classes and the actual results of those classes. I would argue the same could be said about the individual player rankings. The rankings are not going to effect the players talent once they take the floor in college, nor is it going to effect the teams performance they join if they get bumped lower. It will be what it is in the end. Look back at the player rankings over the years and you will see consistent evaluations across the board. You could probably re-rank them in 5 years and see some discrepancies, but most will be very close to their last original rankings.
 
I have just finished slicing, dicing and sorting out a new ranking list of 2021 recruits. Took info that was provided in this thread, Prospects Nation, Blue Star top 30 and HoopGurlz and put it to new spreadsheet. Averaged out new scores for recruits and the following is/are results.

Disclaimer: At no time was money exchanged for this list.

1599651743410.png
 
I have just finished slicing, dicing and sorting out a new ranking list of 2021 recruits. Took info that was provided in this thread, Prospects Nation, Blue Star top 30 and HoopGurlz and put it to new spreadsheet. Averaged out new scores for recruits and the following is/are results.

Disclaimer: At no time was money exchanged for this list.

View attachment 58527
Nice work!
 
While I am in agreement that money can influence some degree of the rankings, a few thoughts:
-Without ESPN, where would women's college basketball be? For many years, ESPN has been one of the few networks to publicize and follow this sport.
-As with most surveys and polls, if you eliminate the highs and lows, you appear to have relatively accurate assessments.
-We all seem to agree Paige earned her #1 ranking. Curious if anyone knows what network and its associated financials backed her, if any. I.e. Adidas/Nike, AAU network, etc.?
 
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I've seen Saylor 3x. Here are her weaknesses: (1) She had hip surgery; (2) Middletown plays low-level competition.
Middletown is in the smaller school division of the Central Maryland Conference so many of Middletown's opponents are lesser competition. Middletown plays these schools on a home and away schedule. They also play the larger school division teams once a year, which is tougher competition. Add in holiday tourney teams and other one-of games (like Mir's team last season) and they probably play 2/3 of the schedule against lesser teams.

The larger schools in Frederick County do send WBB athletes to smaller Division I schools, but there are exceptions: Makayla Daniels, formerly of Frederick High, was a starter for Arkansas last year as a freshman.
Frederick is always Middletown's toughest local opponent. They won two straight state championships before imploding last year (players quitting the team, coach later removed). If Saylor gets to play this season the Frederick game will be the one to see.
 
I have just finished slicing, dicing and sorting out a new ranking list of 2021 recruits. Took info that was provided in this thread, Prospects Nation, Blue Star top 30 and HoopGurlz and put it to new spreadsheet. Averaged out new scores for recruits and the following is/are results.

Disclaimer: At no time was money exchanged for this list.

View attachment 58527

Very Good work! But I have two questions about methodology

Did you add the three ranking spots then divide by three for your average rank? That doesn't seem to work for Saniya Rivers. She is #2 in PN, #3 in HG, and #6 in BS for a total of 11. Divide by 3 and she has an average rating of 3.66 rather than 4.5. (Does not change her position. I'm just curious about the numbers)

Did you only use the Top 30 for Blue Star instead of all their rankings?
Here's why I ask: Aubryanna Hall is not in the BS Top 30. However, they do rank her at 40. She is #14 in HG and #52 in PN. Using my formula above (which may not be what you use), her average rank would be 35.3. If you only use Blue Star Top 30, shouldn't you use the same limitation on the other two services?

Of course my examples are Gamecock recruits because that is who I follow. By using the examples with which I have some familiarity, I am NOT accusing you of bias toward Gamecock recruits. I'm not THAT paranoid. Just curious about the methodology. I do appreciate your effort greatly.

Thank You
 
Very Good work! But I have two questions about methodology

Did you add the three ranking spots then divide by three for your average rank? That doesn't seem to work for Saniya Rivers. She is #2 in PN, #3 in HG, and #6 in BS for a total of 11. Divide by 3 and she has an average rating of 3.66 rather than 4.5. (Does not change her position. I'm just curious about the numbers)

Did you only use the Top 30 for Blue Star instead of all their rankings? Here's why I ask: Aubryanna Hall is not in the BS Top 30. However, they do rank her at 40. She is #14 in HG and #52 in PN. Using my formula above (which may not be what you use), her average rank would be 35.3. If you only use Blue Star Top 30, shouldn't you use the same limitation on the other two services?

Of course my examples are Gamecock recruits because that is who I follow. By using the examples with which I have some familiarity, I am NOT accusing you of bias toward Gamecock recruits. I'm not THAT paranoid. Just curious about the methodology. I do appreciate your effort greatly.

Thank You


Yes to divide by 3, wasn't going to put "extra effort" into this. I only used the top 30 for Blue Star, what was given here in this thread...again, wasn't going to go the "extra mile" for this. Also, I used the top 30 as the list of players. If Prospect Nations nor HoopGurlz did not have the recruits in Blue Star...so be it. Believe me, no bias was used here, just pure numbers. Below is the worksheet for the final tally.

1599656957492.png
 
While I am in agreement that money can influence some degree of the rankings, a few thoughts:
-Without ESPN, where would women's college basketball be? For many years, ESPN has been one of the few networks to publicize and follow this sport.
-As with most surveys and polls, if you eliminate the highs and lows, you appear to have relatively accurate assessments.
-We all seem to agree Paige earned her #1 ranking. Curious if anyone knows what network and its associated financials backed her, if any. I.e. Adidas/Nike, AAU network, etc.?
The ability to influence rankings with money, sneaker companies or networks is being highly overstated here as it relates to women's basketball. The overwhelming majority (>99%) of top 250 players (including Paige) earn their ranking legitimately by busting their behinds in the gym. There are "affiliation" of sneaker companies with AAU teams. Nike (EYBL), Under Armour, Addidas have circuits which are a series of national level tournaments. Mostly everyone has read the stories of corruption and illegal payments by these sneaker companies to players and their relatives. I'm afraid many might be projecting (assuming?) what is happening in the men's game is also happening in the Women's game. Both Paige, Christyn Williams, and ONO ( before the injury) solidified their #1 spot by playing USA basketball. USA basketball is Nike affiliated.
 
Yes to divide by 3, wasn't going to put "extra effort" into this. I only used the top 30 for Blue Star, what was given here in this thread...again, wasn't going to go the "extra mile" for this. Also, I used the top 30 as the list of players. If Prospect Nations nor HoopGurlz did not have the recruits in Blue Star...so be it. Believe me, no bias was used here, just pure numbers. Below is the worksheet for the final tally.

View attachment 58532
Please double check Caroline I believe Prospect Nation has her at 23 not 2 .
 
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Building on @mbr33ct 's hard work:
Composite RankingHG RankPlayerComposite ScoreCommittedPosition
1​
1Azzi Fudd1NoneG
2​
3Saniya Rivers4.5South CarolinaG
3​
8Olivia Miles4.7Notre DamePG
4​
6Aaliyah Moore5.7TexasF
5​
15Amari DeBerry7.3UConnF
6​
4Sania Feagin8.7South CarolinaF
7​
12Payton Verhulst9LouisvilleG
8​
11Brooke Demetre9.7StanfordW
9​
5Caroline Ducharme11.7UConnG
10​
2Raven Johnson14.3South CarolinaPG
11​
10Rori Harmon15TexasPG
12​
30Saylor Poffenbarger15.3UConnG
13​
17Kayla McPherson16.3North CarolinaPG
14​
9Teonni Key16.7North CarolinaW
15​
19Okikiola Iriafen17StanfordF
16​
7Jersey Wolfenbarger17.71ArkansasPG
17​
29Taylor Bigby17.72OregonG
18​
27Rayah Marshall18.7NoneG
19​
24Kyndall Hunter20.7NonePG
20​
16Sonia Citron21Notre DameG
21​
32Greta Kampschroeder22Oregon StateG
22​
21Clarice Akunwafo24USCP
23​
23Damiya Hagemann26NonePG
24​
31O'Mariah Gordon28NonePG
25​
37Jillian Hollingshead29NoneF
26​
Ava Learn29.1
27​
34Reigan Richardson33.3GeorgiaG
28​
87Jada Walker44.3KentuckyPG
29​
99Macie James53.5Oklahoma StateG
30​
57Sacha Washington55.5PurdueF
 
Question: Will Blue Star and Prospect Nation update their rankings before NSD.

Questions # 2: Does anybody know the last time those two services updated?
 
As difficult as it is to ignore the rankings we must. In Geno and CD we must trust their judgment they will watch tape watch in person do the background checks to see who is right for the Connecticut program regardless of the rankings. I’d rather have a lower ranked player with a higher basketball IQ so that she can learn from the best coaching staff in the country. As we have seen intelligence and drive play a major part in adjusting to the Connecticut system. It is fun to see the rankings but in reality they mean very little to Connecticut recruiting.
 
Question: Will Blue Star and Prospect Nation update their rankings before NSD.

Questions # 2: Does anybody know the last time those two services updated?
Prospects Nation appears to have given up on their rankings for the most part. They stopped adding commitments and they also are yet to make a '22 list.

Prep Girls Hoops does national rankings which will be updated soon. I think they do a good job. ASGR's also may be updated soon.
 
As difficult as it is to ignore the rankings we must. In Geno and CD we must trust their judgment they will watch tape watch in person do the background checks to see who is right for the Connecticut program regardless of the rankings. I’d rather have a lower ranked player with a higher basketball IQ so that she can learn from the best coaching staff in the country. As we have seen intelligence and drive play a major part in adjusting to the Connecticut system. It is fun to see the rankings but in reality they mean very little to Connecticut recruiting.
Our trust in CD and Geno is what must be separated from this current discussion. The ranking do not need to be ignored. The ranking are a fun discussion and I would disagree that they have little meaning to UCONN WCBB. When was the last time UCONN WCBB was not interested in or recruiting the #1 player in a HS class?
 
Rankings don't really matter to me because if Geno wants the player and think they have the talent and the essentials to be successful in his system then by all means I'm all for it.
 
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Coach X is on the hot seat and about to get fired, he/she tells the AD just wait until next year, I have this amazing recruiting class coming in, he/she gets an additional couple of years at $1+mil/yr. When the kids show up and don't produce he/she will eventually be fired but they just made an additional couple million dollars. When I say "high level D1", I am not referring to perennial Top 10 teams, I am referring to the top 25% of schools. There are 331 D1 women's teams, those teams in the 40-80 range don't have the recruiting budgets of Top 10 schools, the coaches of those schools ABSOLUTELY pay close attention to recruiting rankings!
For the schools recruiting in that 40-80 range, the player pool that they're drawing from is so closely bunched talent wise that the amateur gurus can't tell them apart any better than we can. They have enough trouble settling on their top 50s let alone splitting hairs on kids in the 100-150 range. The 40-80 range schools are recruiting the way they always have, regionally. They drive to their region's AAU tournaments and HSs and use their eyes. And they do have trusted circles of HS coaches and others who tip them off to kids that may be able to play at their level. Beyond the last 10 years or so, only a small handful of schools had large recruiting budgets for WBB.
 
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Often we see a player that seems to have great talent and of course we want them. Geno has other criteria that he deams important such as are their grades good enough to be a good fit, how are they as potential teammates, would they fit his system, what are their parents like (remember a person's values begin at home), etc. These things can be tricky but in general they succeed.
 
As difficult as it is to ignore the rankings we must. In Geno and CD we must trust their judgment they will watch tape watch in person do the background checks to see who is right for the Connecticut program regardless of the rankings. I’d rather have a lower ranked player with a higher basketball IQ so that she can learn from the best coaching staff in the country. As we have seen intelligence and drive play a major part in adjusting to the Connecticut system. It is fun to see the rankings but in reality they mean very little to Connecticut recruiting.
In fact I’d take the bolded above a step further and say they mean absolutely nothing to Connecticut recruiting. I’d be willing to bet Geno doesn’t even glance at ‘experts’ rankings, never mind put any stock in them
 
I think they earn their money with detailed individual scouting reports paid for by either the parents or the colleges. Coaches that don't have 6 figure recruiting budgets probably have to rely on these reports and their own networks to find players. So a rater shouldn't last long giving out BS advise.

But the shoe connection gave me a thought that maybe in the recruit's bio they should list the shoe of her HS/AAU teams and the shoe company of the schools recruiting her. It might help in predicting choices. :rolleyes:
Alydar, and isn't it sad that a wearing apparel that I paid two dollars for (high top sneakers) when I was so much younger, has beyond quadrupled, surpassing food items, furniture, kitchen utensils, and just about any other product sold in the fifties. Sadder still is that companies like Nike and Adidas, who so publicly support social changes, are making their fortunes off of children and young adults by selling them shoes made in third world countries for a small fraction of their cost. And the saddest part of all of this is that parents continue to pay hundreds of dollars for these cloth and rubber objects simply because they have an athletes name attached to them.
 
Prospects Nation appears to have given up on their rankings for the most part. They stopped adding commitments and they also are yet to make a '22 list.

Prep Girls Hoops does national rankings which will be updated soon. I think they do a good job. ASGR's also may be updated soon.

I do like that Prep Girls Hoops lists each player by club. Would have been a big help during AAU season. Oh well, there's always next year.

Thanks.
 
Alydar, and isn't it sad that a wearing apparel that I paid two dollars for (high top sneakers) when I was so much younger, has beyond quadrupled, surpassing food items, furniture, kitchen utensils, and just about any other product sold in the fifties. Sadder still is that companies like Nike and Adidas, who so publicly support social changes, are making their fortunes off of children and young adults by selling them shoes made in third world countries for a small fraction of their cost. And the saddest part of all of this is that parents continue to pay hundreds of dollars for these cloth and rubber objects simply because they have an athletes name attached to them.

You can still get a pair of high top Chuck Taylor's for a reasonable price. :rolleyes:
 
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In fact I’d take the bolded above a step further and say they mean absolutely nothing to Connecticut recruiting. I’d be willing to bet Geno doesn’t even glance at ‘experts’ rankings, never mind put any stock in them

He might glance one morning over coffee but that's probably about it.

Coaches who have been entrenched for years, like Geno, have huge networks of high school coaches who contact him about prospects. Not just their own players, but also opponents. Is he looking at the list of 2022 or 2023 ranking of prospects to see who he's going to go after? No. He had his lists long ago.
 
In fact I’d take the bolded above a step further and say they mean absolutely nothing to Connecticut recruiting. I’d be willing to bet Geno doesn’t even glance at ‘experts’ rankings, never mind put any stock in them
Geno has a very reliable network of people providing him information about recruits. Some of these very reliable people are also in the rankings business. Nika Muhl first came to Geno's attention through this path. To your point, ultimately Geno trust his own eye more than anyone else. The rankings are data and while Geno is never going to be pouring over a rankings list the data might be helpful if for example you are going to stop pursuing a guard to go after IDK say Nika or Kia Nurse.
 
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Middletown is in the smaller school division of the Central Maryland Conference so many of Middletown's opponents are lesser competition. Middletown plays these schools on a home and away schedule. They also play the larger school division teams once a year, which is tougher competition. Add in holiday tourney teams and other one-of games (like Mir's team last season) and they probably play 2/3 of the schedule against lesser teams.

The larger schools in Frederick County do send WBB athletes to smaller Division I schools, but there are exceptions: Makayla Daniels, formerly of Frederick High, was a starter for Arkansas last year as a freshman.
Frederick is always Middletown's toughest local opponent. They won two straight state championships before imploding last year (players quitting the team, coach later removed). If Saylor gets to play this season the Frederick game will be the one to see.
Yeah, I realize that Saylor can't do anything about Middletown's schedule. Saylor also has played on some AAU teams that did well. On Team USA, she was in the top 6 in most statistical categories. If there is a season, I expect Saylor to be the best player in Maryland, even better than those in Baltimore and the D.C. suburbs.

I'm familiar with Daniels's story. She must be really good.
 
Yeah, I realize that Saylor can't do anything about Middletown's schedule. Saylor also has played on some AAU teams that did well. On Team USA, she was in the top 6 in most statistical categories. If there is a season, I expect Saylor to be the best player in Maryland, even better than those in Baltimore and the D.C. suburbs.

I'm familiar with Daniels's story. She must be really good.
The best thing Saylor could have done was transfer to a powerhouse program like Riverdale Baptist. Many players from public schools have gone this route. But compared to other public school systems, Frederick County is probably 7th/8th on the list in the state of Maryland.
 
The best thing Saylor could have done was transfer to a powerhouse program like Riverdale Baptist. Many players from public schools have gone this route. But compared to other public school systems, Frederick County is probably 7th/8th on the list in the state of Maryland.
I think the best thing Saylor did was catch the eye of the UConn staff without transferring. Who da thunk
 
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