FfldCntyFan
Texas: Property of UConn Men's Basketball program
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I'll take that bet.
Tom Brady: 8th Championship Game in 12 seasons as a starter
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I'll take that bet.
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The Patriots probably overachieved by getting to the championship game with all the injuries they had along with their TE fiasco. Kraft is going to have to spend some money. They have some holes to fill.
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With no one resigned/released, they currently have about $6million in cap space for next year. Talib would be their top in house priority with Edelman right behind. There will be some restructuring of deals for guys like Wilfork to reduce cap hits and possibly an extension for McCourty freeing up cap space.
They also get back Vollmer, Mayo, Wilfork, Kelly, Adrian Wilson (though he could be cut just as easily), and Gronkowski. All of them have been pro bowlers and three of them are under 30 years old. Their biggest holes appear to be at wr but I think they add a guy like Emanuel Sanders, resign Edelman, and develop Dobson, Boyce, and Thomkins. Again, the 2nd youngest team in the NFL and a team that tends to draft well. I think they have a chance to be right back where they were this year.
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I don't know where Brady ranks as a QB but he has to be top 5 at least. IMO Marino was a better passer than any of them but on middle of the road teams. If you are going to base QB ratings on big game performance then you have to go with Montana and he wasn't as good a passer as Manning, Brady or Marino. Montana was very good just not in their league.
As far as Manning is concerned he played on some Colts teams that had poor defenses while Brady played on better teams. This could be Manning's last season. He doesn't have the arm he once had after his surgery and he may have problems with the weather and the Seattle defense in the Super Bowl. We'll see.
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Stupid fallout from one game to argue who is the better quarterback. 1. It really does not matter, the better team wins most of the time and 2. the Broncos were a much better team this year than the Patriots. Once Talieb got hurt that game became one-sided. Peyton made better throws to better receivers but pretending that this is a career referendum on two great QB's is pointless.
I'd say Peyton pretty obviously has better physical QB tools, but Brady pretty obviously has better leadership tools that are so important for a QB. But impossible to evaluate Brady's leadership without factoring in that he's played for the most successful coach of this era (the two are inarguably the greatest QB coach combo ever). And Seattle is winning the Super Bowl because Manning is getting older and his Achilles heel is cold.
I'd say Peyton pretty obviously has better physical QB tools, but Brady pretty obviously has better leadership tools that are so important for a QB. But impossible to evaluate Brady's leadership without factoring in that he's played for the most successful coach of this era (the two are inarguably the greatest QB coach combo ever). And Seattle is winning the Super Bowl because Manning is getting older and his Achilles heel is cold.
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Not even an argument Peyton is Top 3, Brady Top 5-7 so they're both great. While Brady had better teams Peyton played a lot of his games in a controlled environment so there's something to be said about that too. Not sure about "leadership" qualities as even Bellechick said Peyton's ability to read the defense and sometimes call the perfect play is 2nd to none……
Both great QB's who have excelled for years……..
Both great QB's who have excelled for years……..
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I generally agree with all of this, especially Marino. But he did have the Killer B defense earlier in his career, and yes he's the best passer I've ever seen, but he was wild during the game in terms of personality. The year the Colts won the Super Bowl they had the best defense in the league with two terrors as sackers, and they carried Peyton through a really bad postseason for the QB. Brady's defenses in the Super Bowl winning years were fantastic, but one thing people missed about the last two super Bowl wins is that the top players all went down from injuries and Brady had to carry the Patriots with his arm. Ty Law, Willie McGinest, Ted Washington, Rodney Harrison, all went down. Remember Earthwind Moreland playing CB? They gave up something like 29 points in 30 minutes to the Panthers.
The big misses for the Patriots were the two Giants losses in the Super Bowl. In both those years, they should have beaten the Giants and choked. If you watch SOUNDFX from the second game, the Giants were saying they had no answer for the Patriots in the second half, and the next thing you know, the Patriots choke on the game winning drive (would have been a 2 score lead) and Eli makes a great pass to Manningham for the victory. Even then, the Patriots almost complete a Hail Mary on the last play with the ball an inch away from Gronk's arms in the end zone.
I am only disappointed the last 15 years by those two Patriot failures. As for the rest, losing to the Broncos this year or the Ravens, etc., it's to be expected, and doesn't really hurt much. Like UConn losing in the F4 in 2009. The worst loss I can remember other than the 2 Super Bowls was the Jets in 2010.
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The controlled environment thing is interesting because when you look at the stats, it's a huge factor in the analysis, and it's pretty easy to break down too because Manning played more than 50% of his games indoors, but Brady too plays about 20% of his games indoors, and over the years, that's a lot of games. Brady has about 40 indoor games to show what he can do in that environment.
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No question Brady is in rare air of being among top handful of QBs ever. Awesome player.
Peyton Manning to me is arguably the best ever and I think almost undeniably the most valuable football player of all time.
He is Off the charts great and as you say, a full blown great coach on the field.
Indianapolis was 12-4 and SB threat every year with him. He hurts his neck and they go 1-15....with the same guys at every position other then QB. There is no better evidence of his value. Now look at Denver...they are 9-7 ish solid team with a downright ugly offense, until he arrives. Now there is talk it is among greatest offenses ever...
Peyton Manning to me is arguably the best ever and I think almost undeniably the most valuable football player of all time.
He is Off the charts great and as you say, a full blown great coach on the field.
Indianapolis was 12-4 and SB threat every year with him. He hurts his neck and they go 1-15....with the same guys at every position other then QB. There is no better evidence of his value. Now look at Denver...they are 9-7 ish solid team with a downright ugly offense, until he arrives. Now there is talk it is among greatest offenses ever...
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One of the crazy things about this argument about Peyton's relative value is that the Colts were -7.5 from the previous year's record of 10-7.
But when Brady was replaced with Cassell, the Patriots went from 18-1 to 11-5, also -7.5.
And don't forget, the immortal UConn great Dan Orlovsky's record starting for the Colts that year was 2-0. One wonders why the Colts were playing Curtis Painter all along, a guy who isn't even in the NFL anymore. Could it be because of Andrew Luck? Who, by the way...
...took that 2-14 team to 11-5 the very next year?
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Well, they weren't a threat the year before, they were one and done with 10 wins, but yes, they sucked the next year. I'm just saying they tanked for a reason, and his name is Andrew Luck. That was the reason Painter was playing. Luck actually put up a better year than Peyton had the year before the suckage.
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You're really funny. This thread is more about the achievements of the Pats than TB.
TB is a pretty good game manager.
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This.
In age where the NFL has like 20 coaches controlling the actions of 11 dudes, Manning has more control over conduct an on field decisions than any other player in the league. Brady is a hard worker and great student of film, but he isn't on that level.
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They were a threat every year with Manning.
Giants won two SBs with nine win seasons ....
No way they lost on purpose.
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You don't think they lost on purpose? That same team had Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, Robert Mathis, Dwight Freeney, etc. on it. When Dan Orlovsky became QB after they locked up the #1 pick, they quickly won 2 games. Curtis Painter was probably the worst QB anyone had ever seen play in the NFL. This is exactly why Andrew Luck took that same team without Garcon and racked up 11 wins.
I mean, what's the value of going from 10 wins to 2 wins, if you're also not going to credit the next guy from going 2 wins to 11 wins with the same team?
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You've offered nothing so far in this discussion. At least with Fishy he makes a point. But game manager? A guy with better stats than you're choke in the clutch QB?
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Choke? I saw Tom Brady choke away two Super Bowls to underwhelming Giants teams.
Keep slurping.
The Giants were 9-7 in the second Super Bowl run, 10-6 for the first Super Bowl run.
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Yeah, choke. He threw one interception after another in big games. Brady broke Super Bowl records and had his team ahead in the final minutes until Eli twice came back on the Patriots D.
The night before the Super Bowl, they have an awards show, I think it should be the weekend before. Peyton Manning will definitely win the MVP he broke the TD and passing yardage record along with a 13-3 record. No other candidates really that are close. It also helps to be a qb and well be Peyton Manning.
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Your favorite dinker and dunker, that's who.
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