Tom Brady: 8th Championship Game in 12 seasons as a starter | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Tom Brady: 8th Championship Game in 12 seasons as a starter

Status
Not open for further replies.
Stupid fallout from one game to argue who is the better quarterback. 1. It really does not matter, the better team wins most of the time and 2. the Broncos were a much better team this year than the Patriots. Once Talieb got hurt that game became one-sided. Peyton made better throws to better receivers but pretending that this is a career referendum on two great QB's is pointless.

I'd say Peyton pretty obviously has better physical QB tools, but Brady pretty obviously has better leadership tools that are so important for a QB. But impossible to evaluate Brady's leadership without factoring in that he's played for the most successful coach of this era (the two are inarguably the greatest QB coach combo ever). And Seattle is winning the Super Bowl because Manning is getting older and his Achilles heel is cold.
 
Not even an argument Peyton is Top 3, Brady Top 5-7 so they're both great. While Brady had better teams Peyton played a lot of his games in a controlled environment so there's something to be said about that too. Not sure about "leadership" qualities as even Bellechick said Peyton's ability to read the defense and sometimes call the perfect play is 2nd to none……

Both great QB's who have excelled for years……..
 
Danzz said:
I don't know where Brady ranks as a QB but he has to be top 5 at least. IMO Marino was a better passer than any of them but on middle of the road teams. If you are going to base QB ratings on big game performance then you have to go with Montana and he wasn't as good a passer as Manning, Brady or Marino. Montana was very good just not in their league.
As far as Manning is concerned he played on some Colts teams that had poor defenses while Brady played on better teams. This could be Manning's last season. He doesn't have the arm he once had after his surgery and he may have problems with the weather and the Seattle defense in the Super Bowl. We'll see.
Expand ...

I generally agree with all of this, especially Marino. But he did have the Killer B defense earlier in his career, and yes he's the best passer I've ever seen, but he was wild during the game in terms of personality. The year the Colts won the Super Bowl they had the best defense in the league with two terrors as sackers, and they carried Peyton through a really bad postseason for the QB. Brady's defenses in the Super Bowl winning years were fantastic, but one thing people missed about the last two super Bowl wins is that the top players all went down from injuries and Brady had to carry the Patriots with his arm. Ty Law, Willie McGinest, Ted Washington, Rodney Harrison, all went down. Remember Earthwind Moreland playing CB? They gave up something like 29 points in 30 minutes to the Panthers.

The big misses for the Patriots were the two Giants losses in the Super Bowl. In both those years, they should have beaten the Giants and choked. If you watch SOUNDFX from the second game, the Giants were saying they had no answer for the Patriots in the second half, and the next thing you know, the Patriots choke on the game winning drive (would have been a 2 score lead) and Eli makes a great pass to Manningham for the victory. Even then, the Patriots almost complete a Hail Mary on the last play with the ball an inch away from Gronk's arms in the end zone.

I am only disappointed the last 15 years by those two Patriot failures. As for the rest, losing to the Broncos this year or the Ravens, etc., it's to be expected, and doesn't really hurt much. Like UConn losing in the F4 in 2009. The worst loss I can remember other than the 2 Super Bowls was the Jets in 2010.
 
mauconnfan said:
Not even an argument Peyton is Top 3, Brady Top 5-7 so they're both great. While Brady had better teams Peyton played a lot of his games in a controlled environment so there's something to be said about that too. Not sure about "leadership" qualities as even Bellechick said Peyton's ability to read the defense and sometimes call the perfect play is 2nd to none……

Both great QB's who have excelled for years……..
Expand ...

The controlled environment thing is interesting because when you look at the stats, it's a huge factor in the analysis, and it's pretty easy to break down too because Manning played more than 50% of his games indoors, but Brady too plays about 20% of his games indoors, and over the years, that's a lot of games. Brady has about 40 indoor games to show what he can do in that environment.
 
Another reason why Manning is the best to every play the position - he might be the best offensive coordinator in the league right now.

Belichick is a great coach, but Manning was a step ahead all afternoon.
 
No question Brady is in rare air of being among top handful of QBs ever. Awesome player.

Peyton Manning to me is arguably the best ever and I think almost undeniably the most valuable football player of all time.

He is Off the charts great and as you say, a full blown great coach on the field.

Indianapolis was 12-4 and SB threat every year with him. He hurts his neck and they go 1-15....with the same guys at every position other then QB. There is no better evidence of his value. Now look at Denver...they are 9-7 ish solid team with a downright ugly offense, until he arrives. Now there is talk it is among greatest offenses ever...
 
.-.
G0UCONN said:
No question Brady is in rare air of being among top handful of QBs ever. Awesome player.

Peyton Manning to me is arguably the best ever and I think almost undeniably the most valuable football player of all time.

He is Off the charts great and as you say, a full blown great coach on the field.

Indianapolis was 12-4 and SB threat every year with him. He hurts his neck and they go 1-15....with the same guys at every position other then QB. There is no better evidence of his value. Now look at Denver...they are 9-7 ish solid team with a downright ugly offense, until he arrives. Now there is talk it is among greatest offenses ever...
Expand ...

One of the crazy things about this argument about Peyton's relative value is that the Colts were -7.5 from the previous year's record of 10-7.

But when Brady was replaced with Cassell, the Patriots went from 18-1 to 11-5, also -7.5.

And don't forget, the immortal UConn great Dan Orlovsky's record starting for the Colts that year was 2-0. One wonders why the Colts were playing Curtis Painter all along, a guy who isn't even in the NFL anymore. Could it be because of Andrew Luck? Who, by the way...

...took that 2-14 team to 11-5 the very next year?
 
Colts went from a real good team and SB threat to one of worst teams ever without Manning...with everyone else basically the same.
 
G0UCONN said:
Colts went from a real good team and SB threat to one of worst teams ever without Manning...with everyone else basically the same.
Expand ...

Well, they weren't a threat the year before, they were one and done with 10 wins, but yes, they sucked the next year. I'm just saying they tanked for a reason, and his name is Andrew Luck. That was the reason Painter was playing. Luck actually put up a better year than Peyton had the year before the suckage.
 
upstater said:
I see, you like QBs that choke in the clutch and throw interceptions in every big situation in their career, including the year he won.
Expand ...

You're really funny. This thread is more about the achievements of the Pats than TB.

TB is a pretty good game manager.
 
Fishy said:
Another reason why Manning is the best to every play the position - he might be the best offensive coordinator in the league right now.

Belichick is a great coach, but Manning was a step ahead all afternoon.
Expand ...

This.

In age where the NFL has like 20 coaches controlling the actions of 11 dudes, Manning has more control over conduct an on field decisions than any other player in the league. Brady is a hard worker and great student of film, but he isn't on that level.
 
upstater said:
Well, they weren't a threat the year before, they were one and done with 10 wins, but yes, they sucked the next year. I'm just saying they tanked for a reason, and his name is Andrew Luck. That was the reason Painter was playing. Luck actually put up a better year than Peyton had the year before the suckage.
Expand ...

They were a threat every year with Manning.

Giants won two SBs with nine win seasons ....

No way they lost on purpose.
 
.-.
G0UCONN said:
They were a threat every year with Manning.

Giants won two SBs with nine win seasons ....

No way they lost on purpose.
Expand ...

You don't think they lost on purpose? That same team had Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, Robert Mathis, Dwight Freeney, etc. on it. When Dan Orlovsky became QB after they locked up the #1 pick, they quickly won 2 games. Curtis Painter was probably the worst QB anyone had ever seen play in the NFL. This is exactly why Andrew Luck took that same team without Garcon and racked up 11 wins.

I mean, what's the value of going from 10 wins to 2 wins, if you're also not going to credit the next guy from going 2 wins to 11 wins with the same team?
 
ZooCougar said:
You're really funny. This thread is more about the achievements of the Pats than TB.

TB is a pretty good game manager.
Expand ...

You've offered nothing so far in this discussion. At least with Fishy he makes a point. But game manager? A guy with better stats than you're choke in the clutch QB?
 
upstater said:
You've offered nothing so far in this discussion. At least with Fishy he makes a point. But game manager? A guy with better stats than you're choke in the clutch QB?
Expand ...

Choke? I saw Tom Brady choke away two Super Bowls to underwhelming Giants teams.

Keep slurping.
 
G0UCONN said:
They were a threat every year with Manning.

Giants won two SBs with nine win seasons ....

No way they lost on purpose.
Expand ...

The Giants were 9-7 in the second Super Bowl run, 10-6 for the first Super Bowl run.
 
ZooCougar said:
Choke? I saw Tom Brady choke away two Super Bowls to underwhelming Giants teams.

Keep slurping.
Expand ...

Yeah, choke. He threw one interception after another in big games. Brady broke Super Bowl records and had his team ahead in the final minutes until Eli twice came back on the Patriots D.
 
When does the NFL MVP award come out this year?

Wonder who's gonna win.
 
.-.
Fishy said:
When does the NFL MVP award come out this year?

Wonder who's gonna win.
Expand ...

The night before the Super Bowl, they have an awards show, I think it should be the weekend before. Peyton Manning will definitely win the MVP he broke the TD and passing yardage record along with a 13-3 record. No other candidates really that are close. It also helps to be a qb and well be Peyton Manning.
 
G0UCONN said:
They said same thing about Montana...
Expand ...

I know, I'm kidding Fishy because he's been calling Brady that for many many years. But now that Peyton is a dinker and dunker, he's the greatest ever.
 
.-.
mauconnfan said:
One guy averaged 6.92 yards per completion the other averaged 8.31……I guess the "dinker and dunker" of the 2 is NOT winning the MVP. By the way the guy with the 6.92 also had a QB rating of 87.3 while the eventual winner was 115.1…….

Ball don't Lie…...:oops:
Expand ...

There is no doubt Peyton had the greatest year for QB ever. I'm talking overall. But there is no denying Peyton is a dinker and dunker this year. Look at the YAC stats. Best ever.

I still say the difference this year is n0 weapons. Last year's Patriots, with the weapons, were the 4th best offense of all time. It went under the radar because Brady only threw 34 TDs compared to top vote getter (of the QBs) Aaron Rodgers who had 40. But this is where QB rating lies. The Patriots scored 26 rushing TDs, and the Packers scored 7. QB rating doesn't account for that.

People are too into fantasy numbers these days. The final analysis is all about leading your team, and I give Peyton great credit for that this year. Mine is a career comparison. Even using stats like QBR, Brady is ahead when adjusting for indoors/outdoors play. Wins. Etc.
 
upstater said:
I know, I'm kidding Fishy because he's been calling Brady that for many many years. But now that Peyton is a dinker and dunker, he's the greatest ever.
Expand ...

They are both great. But Peyton would be better in the Pats offense than Brady would. With Peyton you get so much more. It's almost unfair to compare Tom or any other QB to him. Peyton is more comparable to Marino in terms of what he brings to a team. Marino is my absolute favorite player of all time, but I think Peyton is far more steady than he was.

It's funny you are criticizing fantasy stats, because all you do is rely on stats. Sometimes you have to look at the whole picture and this is definitely one of those times.

I hate to bag on the Pats. They did a good job Gronk out and losing to the other TE to a criminal situation. I respect what they do and how they do it. The Broncos were just a better team in terms of what they were lining up.

This could be one of the best Super Bowls ever.
 
ZooCougar said:
They are both great. But Peyton would be better in the Pats offense than Brady would. With Peyton you get so much more. It's almost unfair to compare Tom or any other QB to him. Peyton is more comparable to Marino in terms of what he brings to a team. Marino is my absolute favorite player of all time, but I think Peyton is far more steady than he was.

It's funny you are criticizing fantasy stats, because all you do is rely on stats. Sometimes you have to look at the whole picture and this is definitely one of those times.

I hate to bag on the Pats. They did a good job Gronk out and losing to the other TE to a criminal situation. I respect what they do and how they do it. The Broncos were just a better team in terms of what they were lining up.

This could be one of the best Super Bowls ever.
Expand ...

I am not a fan of stats. I talk about stats since that's always the typical Manning fanboy argument. The rest of the story, wins, coolness and composure under pressure, favors Brady.

But I can't understand what else there is than stats and winning. Brady has been better in the playoffs, has won a lot more, and before people toss out the Patriots D or the kicker as the reason, they need to really look at those games hard. People give too much credit to a good defense that totally collapsed or to a kicker that misses a few easy chip shot field goals and then comes out the hero for knocking through the game winner.
 
Fishy said:
Man, he's sure won a lot of MVPs.

Has he won more than Brady yet?
Expand ...

MVP is for losers. Peyton has pretty much proven that out.

Even last year, when Brady had a much better season than Manning, people were touting Peyton for MVP.

Fanboy fantasy people who only care about individual stats.
 
upstater said:
I am not a fan of stats. I talk about stats since that's always the typical Manning fanboy argument. The rest of the story, wins, coolness and composure under pressure, favors Brady.

But I can't understand what else there is than stats and winning. Brady has been better in the playoffs, has won a lot more, and before people toss out the Patriots D or the kicker as the reason, they need to really look at those games hard. People give too much credit to a good defense that totally collapsed or to a kicker that misses a few easy chip shot field goals and then comes out the hero for knocking through the game winner.
Expand ...

Because everyone knows that the Pats aren't winning primarily because of TB. But if you take Peyton out of the equation at Denver then they are not even close to being on the same level that they are on right now.
 
.-.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,640
Messages
4,587,388
Members
10,497
Latest member
Orlando Fos


Top Bottom