Tom Brady: 8th Championship Game in 12 seasons as a starter

[UConn990411]

I don't even like Peyton actually could give a crap……..but he was desperate in case you didn't notice……….huge choker huh? How did Tom do in his last 2 super bowls with some pressure in his face?

Brady has been bad in the playoffs for awhile now, but that doesn't negate the fact that Peyton has been a mediocre playoff QB his entire career. The numbers and his sub-.500 postseason record make that indisputable.

Honestly, there was never much of an argument for Peyton over Brady, and last night really solidified that. At the very least, I hope the "Manning is the greatest QB ever" stuff finally comes to an end.

 

[upstater]

I can't disagree, that was going through my mind last night when the Giants won those 2 superbowls they were beating the hell out of Brady most notably the first Super Bowl, and he still gave them a chance to win. Don't think it was just Peyton their receivers got rattled as well, it was a collective team failure, but who's gonna get all the blame of course Peyton, its the nature of the beast, its the profession you chose to be an NFL qb being measured against the all time greats.

Im glad your not using the 3 superbowls as a shield, the media does tend to do that with Brady as well, and they do it with Jeter too ill admit that. I remember one postseason Jeter hit under .200 and Arod batting about .260-.270 and who do you think got the blame lol.

The main reason I defend Brady here or elsewhere is because places like the NFL Network still repeat things like, "It was the Pats D and Vinatieri" that won those games. But in a couple of those SBs, Brady put the team on his back. The defense cratered. In the Carolina game, he didn't even get MVP and the guy was lights out. But yeah, other than that, Marino went against an unbelievably good 49ers team, and they should have beaten the Patriots to take on the Bears again--but I can't hold all that against him. He didn't have the D.

 

[upstater]

Brady has been bad in the playoffs for awhile now, but that doesn't negate the fact that Peyton has been a mediocre playoff QB his entire career. The numbers and his sub-.500 postseason record make that indisputable.

Honestly, there was never much of an argument for Peyton over Brady, and last night really solidified that. At the very least, I hope the "Manning is the greatest QB ever" stuff finally comes to an end.

It depends on what you mean by bad in the playoffs. He's had 2 straight bad championship games in a row (one of which they've won), but he's also had a bunch of really good games before that in those same years. His last 2 Super Bowls haven't really been that bad. He lead his team to scores when he had the ball and put his team in front.

 

[mauconnfan]

Brady has been bad in the playoffs for awhile now, but that doesn't negate the fact that Peyton has been a mediocre playoff QB his entire career. The numbers and his sub-.500 postseason record make that indisputable.

Honestly, there was never much of an argument for Peyton over Brady, and last night really solidified that. At the very least, I hope the "Manning is the greatest QB ever" stuff finally comes to an end.

How could last night have solidified Peyton being better than Brady? Peyton was awful, looked in awe of the Seattle defense actually so I don't get it unless you actually believe brady has been better over his career than Peyton? Not too many other than Pats fans are that whacked……lol…….

 

[Scoe]

How could last night have solidified Peyton being better than Brady? Peyton was awful, looked in awe of the Seattle defense actually so I don't get it unless you actually believe brady has been better over his career than Peyton? Not too many other than Pats fans are that whacked……lol…….

Brady is a god Manning getting his ass kicked equals Brady winning I guess lol

 

[upstater]

How could last night have solidified Peyton being better than Brady? Peyton was awful, looked in awe of the Seattle defense actually so I don't get it unless you actually believe brady has been better over his career than Peyton? Not too many other than Pats fans are that whacked……lol…….

So, since Brady has a 18-8 playoff record, better QB rating outdoors and indoors, etc., what do you base your assessment on? Both Fishy and CAHUSKY have come on here and said, Manning is just better, without any reason or logic. So what's yours based on?

 

[mauconnfan]

I don't really care upstater and don't care for either of them to be honest. Not a stats guy, could care less about indoors /outdoors because obviously until this year brady has had much better teams with much better defenses.

You guys win, Brady's better I'm not an expert to argue this one. Just obvious to me unless you're a fan of the Pats who is better from years of watching football. Who was better 2 weeks ago? Brady would've crapped himself yesterday too, he did against the Giants!

 

[UConn990411]

I don't really care upstater and don't care for either of them to be honest. Not a stats guy, could care less about indoors /outdoors because obviously until this year brady has had much better teams with much better defenses.

You guys win, Brady's better I'm not an expert to argue this one. Just obvious to me unless you're a fan of the Pats who is better from years of watching football. Who was better 2 weeks ago? Brady would've crapped himself yesterday too, he did against the Giants!

Actually, the notion that Brady has had significantly better defenses throughout his career is a myth.

The knock against Peyton isn't just his abysmal playoff record - it's that he's been largely responsible for his teams consistently underperforming. The guy has never been a good playoff performer, which should eliminate him from any GOAT discussion.

 

[upstater]

I don't really care upstater and don't care for either of them to be honest. Not a stats guy, could care less about indoors /outdoors because obviously until this year brady has had much better teams with much better defenses.

You guys win, Brady's better I'm not an expert to argue this one. Just obvious to me unless you're a fan of the Pats who is better from years of watching football. Who was better 2 weeks ago? Brady would've crapped himself yesterday too, he did against the Giants!

People always downgrade Brady because of the much better defenses, but they do that because they love to hate the Patriots. While Brady and the offense put up 500 yards and 350+ passing yards against the NFL's top defense in the 2004 SB, the Patriots defense was crapping the bed by giving up 29 points in 30 minutes. Vinatieri's 2 missed chip shot field goals didn't help either. And yet somehow Brady was a game manager! Absurd.

Meanwhile, Manning's 2006 Colts had the #1 defense in the NFL. In the playoffs, Manning threw 3 interceptions against the Chiefs, but the Colts defense got 3 turnovers, 4 sacks, and they didn't even give up a single first down for 3 quarters in their 23-8 victory. The next week against the Ravens, Peyton Manning threw another 2 interceptions and no TDs. Vinatieri kicked 5 field goals. The Colts defense got 4 turnovers (2 fumbles, 2 INTs) from the Ravens as the Colts won 15-6.

In the Super Bowl, Peyton Manning threw 1 INT and 1 TD. The Colts defense, however, got 3 fumble recoveries and 2 interceptions off Rex Grossman. The Colts D gave up 10 points the entire game.

So, in those 3 games, the Colts defense gave up a total of 24 points, got 12 turnovers. Meanwhile, Manning threw 6 interceptions and 2 TDs, and he had a sub 50 passer rating.

Yet somehow Brady is the one who needed the defense to win, even though he put up top 5 Super Bowl performance.

I'd say you're a victim of media hype.

 

[G0UCONN]

Brady is one of the top QBs to ever play. Sure-fire HOFer. Great player. No dispute.

I think Peyton Manning is better. May be greatest ever to play.

Not sure how that somehow becomes an insult to Brady.

 

[mauconnfan]

People always downgrade Brady because of the much better defenses, but they do that because they love to hate the Patriots. While Brady and the offense put up 500 yards and 350+ passing yards against the NFL's top defense in the 2004 SB, the Patriots defense was crapping the bed by giving up 29 points in 30 minutes. Vinatieri's 2 missed chip shot field goals didn't help either. And yet somehow Brady was a game manager! Absurd.

Meanwhile, Manning's 2006 Colts had the #1 defense in the NFL. In the playoffs, Manning threw 3 interceptions against the Chiefs, but the Colts defense got 3 turnovers, 4 sacks, and they didn't even give up a single first down for 3 quarters in their 23-8 victory. The next week against the Ravens, Peyton Manning threw another 2 interceptions and no TDs. Vinatieri kicked 5 field goals. The Colts defense got 4 turnovers (2 fumbles, 2 INTs) from the Ravens as the Colts won 15-6.

In the Super Bowl, Peyton Manning threw 1 INT and 1 TD. The Colts defense, however, got 3 fumble recoveries and 2 interceptions off Rex Grossman. The Colts D gave up 10 points the entire game.

So, in those 3 games, the Colts defense gave up a total of 24 points, got 12 turnovers. Meanwhile, Manning threw 6 interceptions and 2 TDs, and he had a sub 50 passer rating.

Yet somehow Brady is the one who needed the defense to win, even though he put up top 5 Super Bowl performance.

I'd say you're a victim of media hype.

All good if you think so………again good for you guys, you have one of the best and THE BEST I guess if you're a Patriot fan. While I might be a victim of media hype I think if you listen to most of the ex-players and the prognosticators the higher % of them are also falling for that…….LOL………is it possible you're a victim of being a fan? Nothing wrong with that we've all done it……...

 

[upstater]

All good if you think so………again good for you guys, you have one of the best and THE BEST I guess if you're a Patriot fan. While I might be a victim of media hype I think if you listen to most of the ex-players and the prognosticators the higher % of them are also falling for that…….LOL………is it possible you're a victim of being a fan? Nothing wrong with that we've all done it……...

Possible. I just don't understand the basis of what the media hype is putting out there. People also don't like to look stupid for comparing a 6th rounder to the #1 pick in the draft, so there's that. But, I did post a link here where 7 out 8 team scouts take Brady.

I tend to think people hate the Patriots so that works against Tom Brady, and I can understand that because I hated the 1990s Cowboys.

 

[upstater]

Brady is one of the top QBs to ever play. Sure-fire HOFer. Great player. No dispute.

I think Peyton Manning is better. May be greatest ever to play.

Not sure how that somehow becomes an insult to Brady.

I didn't read anyone here say that's an insult to Brady, but I think people insult Brady when they say he's a system QB, or game manager, or even that (in this Peyton - Brady discussion) he won with defense while Peyton did it alone. The reality is totally different. It was Brady that won 2 of them with offense. Peyton's the one that won his with defense. The reality is 100% the opposite of what I hear from the talking heads.

 

[upstater]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...rbacks-he-has-seen-b99195610z1-243155121.html

 

[G0UCONN]

I didn't read anyone here say that's an insult to Brady, but I think people insult Brady when they say he's a system QB, or game manager, or even that (in this Peyton - Brady discussion) he won with defense while Peyton did it alone. The reality is totally different. It was Brady that won 2 of them with offense. Peyton's the one that won his with defense. The reality is 100% the opposite of what I hear from the talking heads.

Brady may have been a game manager for most of his first season and their first SB win but since that point, he has become far far more. One of greatest QBs and passers to ever play. Good comparison to me with Brady is Joe Montana in terms of his skills etc.

May be not you but I am puzzled by the hate of Peyton Manning I see and hear from NE fans...I don't get it. Guy is off-the-charts great, a class act, etc. Impossible not to like as a player/athlete IMO. Yet NE fans hate him like he banged their puppy without KY or something....

 

[UConn990411]

Brady may have been a game manager for most of his first season and their first SB win but since that point, he has become far far more. One of greatest QBs and passers to ever play. Good comparison to me with Brady is Joe Montana in terms of his skills etc.

May be not you but I am puzzled by the hate of Peyton Manning I see and hear from NE fans...I don't get it. Guy is off-the-charts great, a class act, etc. Impossible not to like as a player/athlete IMO. Yet NE fans hate him like he banged their puppy without KY or something....

I think he's "hated" in much the same way Magic was - he's consistently been the biggest competition to our team (and, from a legacy standpoint, our team's best player), so naturally some dislike has developed. And not that it's any fault of Peyton's, but the amount of media attention he gets can be annoying.

I suspect the hatred will go away shortly after he retires.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Brady may have been a game manager for most of his first season and their first SB win but since that point, he has become far far more. One of greatest QBs and passers to ever play. Good comparison to me with Brady is Joe Montana in terms of his skills etc.

May be not you but I am puzzled by the hate of Peyton Manning I see and hear from NE fans...I don't get it. Guy is off-the-charts great, a class act, etc. Impossible not to like as a player/athlete IMO. Yet NE fans hate him like he banged their puppy without KY or something....

It is weird, especially in that Pats fans care way more about the Brady vs Manning debate than Brady does. I think Peyton has simply been the biggest rival for the Pats during the Brady years and that breeds competitive dislike. Add to it Manning's overexposure on commercials. Lastly the press is often selling the Manning story and that becomes tiresome.

I was rooting for the Seahawks last night simply because I felt the Peyton Manning factor had unduly moved the spread and the public was wrong and overly influenced by one player. I think that's a microcosm of how folks end up disliking Peyton Manning.

 

[mauconnfan]

I think he's "hated" in much the same way Magic was - he's consistently been the biggest competition to our team (and, from a legacy standpoint, our team's best player), so naturally some dislike has developed. And not that it's any fault of Peyton's, but the amount of media attention he gets can be annoying.

I suspect the hatred will go away shortly after he retires.

I see way too much of Brady so I think the media is in the eye of the beholder. But Peyton definitely got the landslide of the media for 2 weeks while the team in the other side prepared to damage his weekend! They both get hype, but both also deserve most of it……….great QB's……….the Manning hate is due to his dad and ther handling of his sons, not Peyton himself. The Brady "hate" is only regional most likely because he plays for the Red Sawks…….errr…..oops Patriots!

 

[Dogdeacon]

I think he's "hated" in much the same way Magic was - he's consistently been the biggest competition to our team (and, from a legacy standpoint, our team's best player), so naturally some dislike has developed. And not that it's any fault of Peyton's, but the amount of media attention he gets can be annoying.

I suspect the hatred will go away shortly after he retires.

The difference is, and actually LeBron is an example of this - LeBron and Magic proved the public wrong by winning. Peyton Manning hasn't really done that.

Tough to think of a more apt analogy. Need an all-time top 10 great, classy player, fan favorite but maybe over-fawned by press and mediocre post-season record. Ironically Brady fits for 2nd half of his career. Maybe Greg Maddux (arguably best regular season baseball pitcher)?! I don't think anyone ever rooted against Maddux though

 

[upstater]

Brady may have been a game manager for most of his first season and their first SB win but since that point, he has become far far more. One of greatest QBs and passers to ever play. Good comparison to me with Brady is Joe Montana in terms of his skills etc.

May be not you but I am puzzled by the hate of Peyton Manning I see and hear from NE fans...I don't get it. Guy is off-the-charts great, a class act, etc. Impossible not to like as a player/athlete IMO. Yet NE fans hate him like he banged their puppy without KY or something....

Almost every New England fan I know thinks Manning is great and that applies even to people on the internet. Manning, after an abysmal first half of his career against the Patriots, has had the most success of his life against the Patriots (this year and 2007). But in between, therre's been a whole lot of failure.

The reason Patriots fans dislike him is because we constantly hear in the national media about Brady getting the Ws because of the defense. In comparison to Manning, Patriots fans hear so much detraction from Brady's play in the national media. That's about 8-% of it. The other 20% is really the undeniable fact that Manning throws multiple big interceptions in the biggest games. So, everyone thinks he's great, but because he loses composure, he's not as good as Brady or Montana or Marino for that matter. Many Patriots fans probably have him top 10. I have him at 5. I like the list of the Packers reporter quite a bit.

 

[upstater]

I see way too much of Brady so I think the media is in the eye of the beholder. But Peyton definitely got the landslide of the media for 2 weeks while the team in the other side prepared to damage his weekend! They both get hype, but both also deserve most of it……….great QB's……….the Manning hate is due to his dad and ther handling of his sons, not Peyton himself. The Brady "hate" is only regional most likely because he plays for the Red Sawks…….errr…..oops Patriots!

Brady hate is national. They did a poll and he's actually one of the most hated NFL players. Peyton one of the most well liked. I live in Buffalo and go to games so I hear it from regional fans, but when I read fan reactions to Brady's play online, the hatred is there nationally. I think it has more to do with the Patriots than Brady himself. The big thing I most often hear from fans is that Brady is effeminate, and if he is, that is one tough lady.

 

[ZooCougar]

Brady hate is national. They did a poll and he's actually one of the most hated NFL players. Peyton one of the most well liked. I live in Buffalo and go to games so I hear it from regional fans, but when I read fan reactions to Brady's play online, the hatred is there nationally. I think it has more to do with the Patriots than Brady himself. The big thing I most often hear from fans is that Brady is effeminate, and if he is, that is one tough lady.

The whole Ugg Boot sponsorship might have something to do with that.

 

[HuskyHawk]

God what a painful thread. I'm a Patriots fan, live 15 minutes from Gillette, and even I think Manning is, on the whole, probably better. Manning has had better receivers though. It's pretty close, and a debatable point that doesn't matter in the slightest. It's like arguing Clapton vs Jeff Beck. Who cares? There is no "best", only best for a particular team, style of play, and at a particular time. Brady demands a very unique style of route running. The result is that with the few receivers that can read the defense and adjust exactly the way he expects, he is hard to stop. But any receiver who reads the defense differently becomes useless. That isn't the fault of the receiver. It's the reason NE has trouble finding productive receivers, they have to adapt to Brady.

The saddest part is listening to Patriots fans whine about the "Brady window". Right now, I'm not sure how much better Brady is than Ryan Mallett. He hasn't been the same since Moss, and doesn't spread the ball around nearly as well as he once did. He's still very good, but he can certainly be replaced by somebody good enough to win a Superbowl.

 

[upstater]

Right now, I'm not sure how much better Brady is than Ryan Mallett.

Stick to Iowa basketball.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Stick to Iowa basketball.

Iowa? Drove through it once.