Thoughts from a Tenn fan/Stanford-Tenn [merged]

[connboy77]

And that is the proof that everything has changed significantly in Pat's life.

In the old days Pat would have blasted her team in no uncertain terms!

 

[Kibitzer]

I commented elsewhere on Nneka's amazing performance, Tennessee's uncharacteristic weak defense, etc. Permit me now to describe four indelible impressions from the game.

1. Pat was, sad to say, not fully engaged. It seems that a pattern has been established at each road game: Start by honoring Pat (graciously and deservedly), then see her assistants take over the in-game coaching with varying levels of effectiveness.
2. Simmons and Spani had an on-court, in-game spat. I don't know what caused it or who started it, but it is an ominous sign that bodes ill for the team's future. Need I add that this would never have occurred in the past, with Pat in complete clipboard-busting control.
3. Although the Tennessee players have talent (e.g., Spani's ball-handling and long-range shooting, Johnson's athleticism, Stricklen's all around excellence), they seem to have no cohesiveness to their offense (manifested by few assists). And no "D" for Nneka, Toni, and Chiney.
4. Toward the end of the game, a camera shot of the coaching staff was shown. Left to right: Unknown assistant, Dean Lockwood, Holly Warwick, Pat, and Mickey DeMoss. All seemed stunned, even bewildered. Nothing in that image suggested SEC Champions, Final Four, or even Elite Eight.

Finally, as I mentioned elsewhere, the incredible "T" for having six players on the court. I simply cannot comprehend how that could happen to this once proud and dominant team. And I won't guess why on this forum.

 

[alexrgct]

OK, just watched the game. My thoughts:

1. This was an immensely entertaining game with some terrific offense, but let's be clear: that was not championship-level defense played by either team.

2. Let's be clear about another thing: it's a bad idea to judge teams based on statistical outliers. That's why I scoffed at the notion that Tennessee was a legit contender after the UCLA game; no one shoots 70% on a regular basis. By the same token, Nneka isn't going to score 42 on a regular basis. It was a joy to watch her play last night, but this is a very different game without that hurculean effort. Stanford is still very young and relatively weak (by Stanford standards) in the backcourt, notwithstanding Kokenis's productive night.

3. Stricklen is the only Tennessee player that you can count on to put in serious work night in and night out. The others? Well...

4. ...Glory: still immensely talented. Still seems to drift in and out of games. Still capable of getting riled up and making poor decisions. I'll say it again: she should be a first-team AA. The fact that she isn't is curious and concerning.

5. Spani- how can someone as good as she is disappear for large portions of games? Seriously, where on God's green earth was she in the second half?

6. Simmons- she actually played pretty well, especially in the first half, but she's yet another play who famously runs hot and cold.

7. Baugh- Baugh is Tennessee's Caroline Doty. Oft-injured, everyone's happy she's just out there at all, and she's capable of being really good at times. Just can't count on it night in and night out. This was definitely a night to forget for her.

8. Massengale- huh? Very, very confused about why she was out there tonight. Either she's ready to go or she isn't. Why did she not enter the game until there were 11 minutes left? The game was still in question at that point. Was it just an act of desperation to put her out there? In any event, she was ineffective.

9. Manning- she's the kind of player you love if she's on your team, but I'm going to say something harsh about the LVs: the fact that her effort stands out says as much negatively about some of her (more talented) teammates as it does positively about her. Everyone on UConn's team plays with that effort level or they don't play. Used to be the case with a Pat Summitt-coached team, too.

10. Pat- she has the right to go out on her own terms, but this program needs a head coach deep into the details. You can say her assistants are good enough that they could be running their own shows elsewhere, but we have no empirical evidence that they'd be immensely effective in those roles. The fact that Pat now NEEDS her assistants to do certain things may be a problem. UConn has been successful because Geno is involved with everything. Even when he delegates something to an assistant, he tends to step in with a wise-ass comment or whatever if he's not seeing the results he expected. Pat used to be like that- in her own way, obviously, but someone who could hold everyone deeply accountable. At any rate, I'm not seeing the individual or team development that I'm accustomed to from the LVs, and that starts with coaching. I want Pat to be happy with the circumstances and terms of her departure, but I also hope we don't get to a point where Tennessee's program languishes in the process.

 

[HuskyNan]

I'm sure other BY's know the details better than I do, but I believe it's because the long-time Charleston coach is at least a casual friend of Geno's, and she(?) is retiring at the end of this year. So, bringing the Traveling Circus to her gym is a gesture of support.

Geno and Nancy Wilson have a 20 year friendship.

 

[neutral_site]

Some very good observations on here.

The long-time LV fans have been crabbing about the poor defense for the last 4 years. Last night: shot clock winding down, Glory Johnston on N.O., and she sags off so far that she gave up an easy jumper. Years ago, N.O. would have been swarmed ass soon as she picked up her dribble.

I don't know, without a long rant.....

Yes, UT needs to get moving on a new coach. No, none oft the ones on staff will, (IMO) be the 'one' to succeed Pat. I think, before her illness, her plan was to mentor her son into the role (not entirely certain, but seemed to be the drift).

They really missed their chance with the lady who went from UCLA to LSU...she's the best of the UT offspring.

 

[Icebear]

They really missed their chance with the lady who went from UCLA to LSU...she's the best of the UT offspring.

I think if the phone call came Nikki would be in Knoxville the next morning.

 

[Tonyc]

Looking at a bunch of games the top teams do not play steller defense. TN does not play perimiter defense. It hasnt changed. No team chemistry, no jellin, very poor passing. Manning I love. I wish she came to UConn. When it comes down to the NCAAs defense will win. I read on other boards fans knocking UConn. Picking on UConn. UConn plays defense, is the best passing team in WCBB, and has team chemistry. Watching other games you can see the difference. Even againest Baylor. Baylor has Griner and with her shot blocking makes it tuff inside. Griner was the difference, almost unstoppable. UConn came close and I think the next time they meet it will be an all out war. Next time UConn will get to the foul line and Baylor will have some foul problems. I beleive Geno took alot away from the game. Two comments. One keep Griner boxed out when UConn is on offense allowing penetrators a lane to the basket and second suffacate Sims and make everybody else beat you.

TN hasnt come together and this is the 4th season, what makes people think they will. It could happen but unless Ariel can take over the leadership which I dont see happening TN will be up and down. Its a bit sad with all that talent they cant put it together. Argueing during the game shows the frustration. Depending on a freshman and putting all that pressure on her to win is unfair because she lacks experience on the college level. Shes not the savior TN fans hoped for. Shes a great player but needs time as all freshman do. One stats that stands out is TN again shot over 60% in the first half and this time trailed???????? Gotta wonder what it will take. Can you imagine if TN shot 45% againest Stanford in the first half what the score wouldve been? UConn is at a different level when it comes to chemistry, team cohesiveness, continuinty and just plain T.E.A.M. Thats what makes UConn who they are and why theyve done what theyve done and why they are attracting so many top players. Genos accomplishments are second to none. His development of players is second to none and his ability to continue to put the bar higher and reach it is mind boggleing. The sad thing for WCBB fans is UConn will only get better over the next 6-8 years.

 

[neutral_site]

I commented elsewhere on Nneka's amazing performance, Tennessee's uncharacteristic weak defense, etc. Permit me now to describe four indelible impressions from the game.

1. Pat was, sad to say, not fully engaged. It seems that a pattern has been established at each road game: Start by honoring Pat (graciously and deservedly), then see her assistants take over the in-game coaching with varying levels of effectiveness.
2. Simmons and Spani had an on-court, in-game spat. I don't know what caused it or who started it, but it is an ominous sign that bodes ill for the team's future. Need I add that this would never have occurred in the past, with Pat in complete clipboard-busting control.
3. Although the Tennessee players have talent (e.g., Spani's ball-handling and long-range shooting, Johnson's athleticism, Stricklen's all around excellence), they seem to have no cohesiveness to their offense (manifested by few assists). And no "D" for Nneka, Toni, and Chiney.
4. Toward the end of the game, a camera shot of the coaching staff was shown. Left to right: Unknown assistant, Dean Lockwood, Holly Warwick, Pat, and Mickey DeMoss. All seemed stunned, even bewildered. Nothing in that image suggested SEC Champions, Final Four, or even Elite Eight.

Finally, as I mentioned elsewhere, the incredible "T" for having six players on the court. I simply cannot comprehend how that could happen to this once proud and dominant team. And I won't guess why on this forum.

Great post.

As a UT fan, I've not been happy with the staff since Candace left. Here is the direct reason why: when they lost to ball state, a truly embarrassing loss, the staff laid the loss entirely on the players. Not "we", them. In fact, the entire season for those girls as freshmen was "them". I understand the role of team-building, but also understand nurture for freshmen who are losing because their coaches never recruited enough point guards!!!!

Even last season, when I thought the staff had the team ill-prepared to face some tough midwest opponents in the NCAA's, there was still that "oh, the guards all sucked, Ariel will save us". Really?? Your kids just busted their butts to play OUT OF POSITION because you haven't signed a credible PG in 6 years, and THIS is what you say post-game???

Been a LV fan since Pat started coaching them, but right now, it's got some credibility issues.

 

[RoyDodger]

Some very good observations on here.

The long-time LV fans have been crabbing about the poor defense for the last 4 years. Last night: shot clock winding down, Glory Johnston on N.O., and she sags off so far that she gave up an easy jumper. Years ago, N.O. would have been swarmed ass soon as she picked up her dribble.

I don't know, without a long rant.....

Yes, UT needs to get moving on a new coach. No, none oft the ones on staff will, (IMO) be the 'one' to succeed Pat. I think, before her illness, her plan was to mentor her son into the role (not entirely certain, but seemed to be the drift).

They really missed their chance with the lady who went from UCLA to LSU...she's the best of the UT offspring.

This seems obvious, but I'll say it anyway: Wouldn't it be correct to presume that this is Pat's final year and that the U. of Tennessee officials are letting her play out the string for this year in honor of her accomplishments and stature? It certainly will be interesting to see who comes next.

 

[cardfan]

DC, TN has players that are 6'1-6'4" (Manning, Baugh, Johnson, Stricklen) all according to LV fans supposedly more athletic than Faris who at 5'11" was covering a player 3" taller.

Card, as far as 23 minutes. Getting a player off the floor is, also, part of a defensive strategy. It is the smart team that tries to deny a team its best player by finding a way to remove that player from the court.

I understand that. One of the calls was very suspect especially given how physical the game was being played and how much they let go.

 

[Icebear]

This seems obvious, but I'll say it anyway: Wouldn't it be correct to presume that this is Pat's final year and that the U. of Tennessee officials are letting her play out the string for this year in honor of her accomplishments and stature? It certainly will be interesting to see who comes next.

Given what we are seeing I am expecting that is exactly what we are seeing occur.

 

[neutral_site]

Whoa, folks.

UT stunk, no question: also at the end of a cross-country road trip that went from NYC to California, and in Stanford's gym.

I KNOW you remember playing in Stanford's gym, correct??

And some of you will remember Stonford losing a game or two on a similar road trip last season??

UT has serious issues on defense. They have serious issues with the staff. They DO have athletic talent, though, and any opponent who faces them when they are rebounding well will face a tough game.

I try to tell UT fans the same thing about other teams: you can't underestimate what they can do in any one game. Look at frigging Notre Dame last year.

 

[willtalk]

Hey, before you get your hackles up, I have grown to like UConn's program quite a bit, and UT's less over the years, but I AM a Tenn hick, so will probably never go away from it completely.

Anyway, my thought on Baylor: I watched the game, and re-watched again on ESPN3.com. What did I see??

Virtually NO picking of Griner. She roamed the backline freely, was able to pull off Dolson and go after the UConn slashers.

Here's how I'd approach it, when you have great athletes like UConn:
-pick or screen her EVERY time she runs down court, multiple times
-on 'Dives', pick her not once, but twice: first with Dolson/Buck, then with a guard
-ALWAYS keep a body between her and your shooter; make the refs call it
-ALWAYS play behind her on defense...let her shoot, maybe she'll score 80...but do NOT let her on the offensive glass.

I won't waste a bunch of your time; I do believe UConn and Baylor will meet again. UConn has a GREAT offense, and 'skeeter'??? She is special. Way special. UConn is the best TEAM in the country, while Griner/Sims are the best PAIR in the country.

Good luck guys, what a fantastic offense!!!

Good suggestion! Way to think outside the box. The same idea had also crossed my mind before. It wouldn't even be that difficult to do as long as you had smart and quick players to carry it out. I actually used the same techneque in a game we played in a long time ago with great success. The other team had a very tall center who was blocking everything in the first half until the plan was implimented. He got no blocks in the second.

 

[neutral_site]

Good suggestion! Way to think outside the box. The same idea had also crossed my mind before. It wouldn't even be that difficult to do as long as you had smart and quick players to carry it out. I actually used the same techneque in a game we played in a long time ago with great success. The other team had a very tall center who was blocking everything in the first half until the plan was implimented. He got no blocks in the second.

Thanks; I am not a Baylor fan...and I like A&M even less!!

 

[UConner]

Given what we are seeing I am expecting that is exactly what we are seeing occur.

Somebody is going to have to take the car keys away from Pat, and that won't be an easy decision for Tenn's AD

 

[neutral_site]

Somebody is going to have to take the car keys away from Pat, and that won't be an easy decision for Tenn's AD

I think pretty much everything has been arranged.

People who get an idea early on that they have dementia quite often try to plan their lives out to a 'T', including others in the process in an effort to control their future while they still can. The disease is a true "female dog", that is for sure.

And, yeah, in Pat's prime more than one clipboard would have been broken, and you'd have seen the end of the bench go in en masses to attempt to play some D.

 

[Phil]

thats crazy... how many did she have against UConn and who was guarding her, FARIS?

You took the words right out of my mouth. While the attention is understandably on the magnificent game NO had, all I kept thinking about was how impressive that makes Kelly's performance.

 

[Icebear]

You took the words right out of my mouth. While the attention is understandably on the magnificent game NO had, all I kept thinking about was how impressive that makes Kelly's performance.

Absolutely.

 

[Phil]

I believe their home court winning streak is at 68 games since their last loss. Not as good as UConn's 91 game home court winning streak, but still impressive.

I believe they are one game away from tying for second place. I don't see a challenge the rest of the year, so should end with 79, and a solid hold on second, then next year, may be chasing UConn, depending on how we do.

 

[alexrgct]

If UConn heads to Stanford next year, they're bringing the wrath of God with them. That streak ends.

 

[EricSD]

You took the words right out of my mouth. While the attention is understandably on the magnificent game NO had, all I kept thinking about was how impressive that makes Kelly's performance.

and wasn't she guarding Chiney when Nneka went out with the 2 fouls in the 1st half?

 

[Ruffian75]

BTW, on Van Gundy...

I think last year with A&M was a perfect example of why I think he's BS sometimes. A&M didn't really enter a lot of conversations as a 'best' team...yet, they won it all.

Like I said, the game is growing, and if appeal is kept to female athletes it will only get better.

It is growing but ever so slightly. The average attendance per game is pretty much at a standstill.

Total ..........year......teams....ave/gm
Attendance Year Teams Average
8,127,779.... 2011 ......333 ......1,642
8,090,084.. 2008 .....326 ......1,693
8,051,808... 2010 ......332..... 1,637
8,042,040... 2009..... 328.....1,664
7,886,207.... 2007...... 325.... 1,654
7,351,634.....2003...... 322..... 1,619
7,173,377..... 2004 ......324 .....1,617
7,093,642.... 2006...... 332..... 1,575
7,067,831..... 2005...... 324..... 1,578
6,937,813 .....2002...... 322......1,590

 

[Fiftyish]

Finally, as I mentioned elsewhere, the incredible "T" for having six players on the court. I simply cannot comprehend how that could happen to this once proud and dominant team. And I won't guess why on this forum.[/quote]

Didn't see the game but I'm curious of how the "T" occurred. Was the 6th player on the court after the game clock started or did a ref pick it up first? How long was she on the court? Did anyone on the UT bench notice it prior to the T call?

 

[pinotbear]

If UConn heads to Stanford next year, they're bringing the wrath of God with them.

Yet another recruit I've never heard of! Any relation to God Shamgod?

 

[Ruffian75]

Finally, as I mentioned elsewhere, the incredible "T" for having six players on the court. I simply cannot comprehend how that could happen to this once proud and dominant team. And I won't guess why on this forum.

Didn't see the game but I'm curious of how the "T" occurred. Was the 6th player on the court after the game clock started or did a ref pick it up first? How long was she on the court? Did anyone on the UT bench notice it prior to the T call?

That is a coaching lapse, plain and simple.

 

[Icebear]

and wasn't she guarding Chiney when Nneka went out with the 2 fouls in the 1st half?

Yup.

 

[Bestiarius]

Tenn looked like they were jet lagged, and they may have been. Dec. 11 in NYC, 13th at Rutgers in NJ, 17th in Los Angeles, 2oth in Palo Alto. That's a big road trip and might have had something to do with how bad they looked.

 

[VAUConnFan]

Finally, as I mentioned elsewhere, the incredible "T" for having six players on the court. I simply cannot comprehend how that could happen to this once proud and dominant team. And I won't guess why on this forum.

Didn't see the game but I'm curious of how the "T" occurred. Was the 6th player on the court after the game clock started or did a ref pick it up first? How long was she on the court? Did anyone on the UT bench notice it prior to the T call?[/quote]

Before we get all holier than thou with Tennessee's coaching staff, UConn had an embarassing technical of its own called prior to the start fo the Seton Hall game four seasons ago for which Coach Daly accepted the responsibility.

 

[HuskyNan]

Didn't see the game but I'm curious of how the "T" occurred. Was the 6th player on the court after the game clock started or did a ref pick it up first? How long was she on the court? Did anyone on the UT bench notice it prior to the T call?"

Before we get all holier than thou with Tennessee's coaching staff, UConn had an embarassing technical of its own called prior to the start fo the Seton Hall game four seasons ago for which Coach Daly accepted the responsibility.

?? Who got holier than thou?

 

[DaddyChoc]

Didn't see the game but I'm curious of how the "T" occurred. Was the 6th player on the court after the game clock started or did a ref pick it up first? How long was she on the court? Did anyone on the UT bench notice it prior to the T call?

Before we get all holier than thou with Tennessee's coaching staff, UConn had an embarassing technical of its own called prior to the start fo the Seton Hall game four seasons ago for which Coach Daly accepted the responsibility.

maybe the angle is towards Pat's illness and everyone calling shots... it could get confusing in those huddles (DC)