The House case

[noeynox]

I guess it depends on your viewpoint.

If you measure yourself against the weakest of your competition, the odds are pretty favorable that you'll be better than them. While that's potentially comforting, I guess, it doesn't change the reality that the teams which we view as our competition are making roughly 10 times what the average big east team earns in media revenue, minimally, with the best making nearly 20 times that.

So when we are losing coaches and top players to P2 teams, and, in all likelihood, eventually excluded from competing at the highest level of college athletics, I guess some might take comfort in the fact that the big east "makes the most of the non-football conferences." I won't be one of them.

You gotta compare apples to apples.

I don't like that UConn isn't a P4 league. That's not Val Ackerman's fault. AAC schools get more TV money than UConn, but we would rather still be in the Big East. If anything, that shows you the discrepancy between FB and BB value in the eyes of those that pay for those products. I thought Yormark was on the mark last year when he tried getting UConn into the Big12. His school presidents were not convinced.

 

[CL82]

You gotta compare apples to apples.

I don't like that UConn isn't a P4 league. That's not Val Ackerman's fault. AAC schools get more TV money than UConn, but we would rather still be in the Big East. If anything, that shows you the discrepancy between FB and BB value in the eyes of those that pay for those products. I thought Yormark was on the mark last year when he tried getting UConn into the Big12. His school presidents were not convinced.

I disagree. The relevant comparison isn't where we are now, the relevant comparison is who are we competing against. No prospective player, or prospective coach, will care about our tale of conference reassignment woe or that we are currently in a non-football conference. They will care whether we can advance their interest better than other schools. Their interest will include compensation, either via NIL opportunities for players or by salaries for coaches, whether or not we have top facilities, and whether or not we provide them with a vehicle for advancement.

So, saying, well we make about $.10 on the dollar in distributions compared to the worst p* conference, but we do better than "any non-football playing conference" doesn't change the analysis one bit for those individuals. Whether it is a self soothing narrative for fans really doesn't matter.

 

[noeynox]

The P4 definitely do NOT want to go to court again, because the next ass-kicking they receive could be really historic.

"This is neither right nor fair. It’s the Power 5 making up the rules as they go along, and it’s the NCAA doing what the NCAA has done for decades — cowering to schools like Ohio State and Texas, and taking it out on the likes of Southern Indiana and Purdue Fort Wayne."

This the crux of the argument. The other 27 will let the P5 screw them over, out of fear of the P5 breaking off. Its an abusive relationship. The numbers in that article are insane.

 

[noeynox]

I disagree. The relevant comparison isn't where we are now, the relevant comparison is who are we competing against. No prospective player, or prospective coach, will care about our tale of conference reassignment woe or that we are currently in a non-football conference. They will care whether we can advance their interest better than other schools. Their interest will include compensation, either via NIL opportunities for players or by salaries for coaches, whether or not we have top facilities, and whether or not we provide them with a vehicle for advancement.

So, saying, well we make about $.10 on the dollar in distributions compared to the worst p* conference, but we do better than "any non-football playing conference" doesn't change the analysis one bit for those individuals. Whether it is a self soothing narrative for fans really doesn't matter.

If you can find someone to pay more for the Big East and close the gap on the P5 (most of whose value comes from FB) you would be better than Val Ackerman at her job. The reality is that other than UConn and maybe a fading Villanova what does she have to sell that people are tripping over themselves to buy and put on TV? The 4 day Big East Tournament maybe? Marquette and Creighton are fun but their distant 2nds in their own state in terms of interest. I don't see the meat on the bone that you do.

 

[CL82]

If you can find someone to pay more for the Big East and close the gap on the P5 (most of whose value comes from FB) you would be better than Val Ackerman at her job. The reality is that other than UConn and maybe a fading Villanova what does she have to sell that people are tripping over themselves to buy and put on TV? The 4 day Big East Tournament maybe? Marquette and Creighton are fun but their distant 2nds in their own state in terms of interest. I don't see the meat on the bone that you do.

Lol. That's a strawman argument.

You questioned labeling of the big east media deal as "mediocre at best" in defended your position by saying that it must be judged as being the best of the "non-football player conferences." I pointed out that that distinction is meaningless in the economics of the marketplace.

Whether I "would be better at the commissioner job than Val" commentary is a meaningless non-argument.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[noeynox]

Lol. That's a strawman argument.

You questioned labeling of the big east media deal as "mediocre at best" in defended your position by saying that it must be judged as being the best of the "non-football player conferences." I pointed out that that distinction is meaningless in the economics of the marketplace.

Whether I "would be better at the commissioner job than Val" commentary is a meaningless non-argument.

If you ask the people Depaul, Georgetown, and Butler if they think the TV contract Ackerman delivered is mediocre i don't think they will agree with you.

You are looking at this through UConn glasses. Most of the fans of the other schools are thrilled with the TV contract i bet since they don't have to worry about funding football.

I'm not arguing anything. No one is closing the gap between the Big East and the P5. You only need to see the P2 distancing themselves within that group to understand it is only going to get worse not better for the Big East.

 

[CL82]

You only need to see the P2 distancing themselves within that group to understand it is only going to get worse not better for the Big East.

Agree.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

"This is neither right nor fair. It’s the Power 5 making up the rules as they go along, and it’s the NCAA doing what the NCAA has done for decades — cowering to schools like Ohio State and Texas, and taking it out on the likes of Southern Indiana and Purdue Fort Wayne."

This the crux of the argument. The other 27 will let the P5 screw them over, out of fear of the P5 breaking off. Its an abusive relationship. The numbers in that article are insane.

There are not too many situations where you can be found civilly liable, and simply declare that a whole bunch of completely separate entities will pay the judgment.

 

[ZooCougar]

Ahh so the P5 wants to be bailed out by the G5 and lower on this legal fiasco.

Knives need to come out. The G5 and below should threaten to sue the NCAA into oblivion.

 

[huskymedic]

Ahh so the P5 wants to be bailed out by the G5 and lower on this legal fiasco.

Knives need to come out. The G5 and below should threaten to sue the NCAA into oblivion.

They can get in line - what’s a few more lawsuits @ this point.

 

[noeynox]

There are not too many situations where you can be found civilly liable, and simply declare that a whole bunch of completely separate entities will pay the judgment.

It sounds like the other 27, represented ny the NCAA, agreed to this. So either they fire those representatives or they pay the agreed upon settlement no?

That is how little the P5 think of the other 27 conferences. They don't even let them in the room to hear what is being discussed. They basically dictated terms and NCAA guys representing the other schools said "sounds good to me."

 

[noeynox]

Ahh so the P5 wants to be bailed out by the G5 and lower on this legal fiasco.

Knives need to come out. The G5 and below should threaten to sue the NCAA into oblivion.

They are the NCAA. They need to fire the suits selling them out. They're clearly being overpaid.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

How do the NCAA by laws work for large issues like this? Do they have simple majority or two-thirds, or three-quarters voting rules?

 

[huskymedic]

We see your alternate plan proposal and piss on it:

 

[Fishy]

So much for the strong objection.

The Big East has no leverage and no power.

Someone chime in about how we could sue the P4 - that’s how it usually works.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

So much for the strong objection.

The Big East has no leverage and no power.

Someone chime in about how we could sue the P4 - that’s how it usually works.

Worked pretty well in the Alston and House cases.

 

[CTBballfan243]

Where (whose pockets) is the 2.77 billion dollars going?

 

[Fishy]

Where (whose pockets) is the 2.77 billion dollars going?

Players past and future.

Damages for past players, revenue sharing for future players.

Basically, our end will be around $7M for the past damages; the BE distributes about $4.5-4.7M per year, now it will be closer to $4M even. (Probably best case scenario - the television contract expires in a year and the exclusive window has come and gone with no deal.)

The revenue sharing part of the deal is opt-in and likely beyond our means and then some.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

I wonder if the P2 are trying to force/push this so as to prepare everyone for a P2 breakaway in the years ahead? Force the divorce kind of thing.

 

[huskymedic]

Where (whose pockets) is the 2.77 billion dollars going?

Players past and future.

Damages for past players, revenue sharing for future players.

… and lawyers. Lots and lots of lawyers.

 

[Slasher]

We see your alternate plan proposal and piss on it:

So four conferences are paying 40% of $1.66B and the other 27 conferences are paying 60% of $1.66B This doesn't seem like a great resolution for lower tier teams in power conferences who don't have near the revenues of Texas or Alabama or Michigan. It's also really bad for the low majors whose conferences will basically see zero revenue from the NCAA for 10 years.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

It sounds like the other 27, represented ny the NCAA, agreed to this. So either they fire those representatives or they pay the agreed upon settlement no?

That is how little the P5 think of the other 27 conferences. They don't even let them in the room to hear what is being discussed. They basically dictated terms and NCAA guys representing the other schools said "sounds good to me."

The smart move by the non-football conferences would be to simply stop the settlement. File an injunction preventing the NCAA from approving any settlement. The Big East isn't a named defendant in the House lawsuit. Let the P4 sweat.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

So four conferences are paying 40% of $1.66B and the other 27 conferences are paying 60% of $1.66B This doesn't seem like a great resolution for lower tier teams in power conferences who don't have near the revenues of Texas or Alabama or Michigan. It's also really bad for the low majors whose conferences will basically see zero revenue from the NCAA for 10 years.

In a negotiation, never put someone in a position where they have nothing to lose by continuing to fight you.

 

[Chuck]

I'll admit, I've been too busy to follow the nuances of this situation. But it does seem to be a potential game changer. This would be a big hit to UConn, yet we'd probably have to pay up and shut up to potentially reserve a seat during the next conference shake up.

These splits seem so arbitrary. Why would the ACC and Big 12 agree to pay as much as the SEC and Big Ten when everyone knows how much more the latter make. And, while we complain about UConn's situation, what about low major teams? If I'm a Patriot League or Northeast Conference school getting hit up for the same amount as the Big East or even the American, I'm saying no way. The revenues at the low majors can't be nearly as much as the Big East.

 

[noeynox]

The smart move by the non-football conferences would be to simply stop the settlement. File an injunction preventing the NCAA from approving any settlement. The Big East isn't a named defendant in the House lawsuit. Let the P4 sweat.

Couldn't this be exactly what the P5 wants with such a move? They can basically say we will pay the whole settlement but we are breaking away. Anyone that wants to move with us can but you now have to pay a larger amount since there less schools paying the total amount? I'm spitballing, but there has to be a reason why the NCAA stands by and watches the non P5 schools get clearly shafted. Collectively they get around 10 percent of revenues but are being told to pay 60 percent of the settlement, and the NCAA reps are okay signing off on this?

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

how about splitting the House settlement within the P5-6 and G5 along the lines of the CFP revenue monies ratio? Then, split the remaining nut across the rest of D1, D2, D3 schools evenly. Seems much fairer than what the P2-driven proposal is.

 

[noeynox]

how about splitting the House settlement within the P5-6 and G5 along the lines of the CFP revenue monies ratio? Then, split the remaining nut across the rest of D1, D2, D3 schools evenly. Seems much fairer than what the P2-driven proposal is.

Yeah that seems fair. No one seems interested in fair. Although D2 and D3 should be exempted from this altogether.

 

[ZooCougar]

The schools were just following NCAA rules and now they have to settle.

The NCAA should be picking up the lions share of this. All that money they have been pocketing over the years can now be used to defray the costs to the conferences.

The burden placed on the conferences should be proportional to the payouts received by the NCAA.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

All the Catastrophists on this board (about 50% of you) need to remember that the NCAA/P4 has lost EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY HAVE BEEN SUED by anyone credible. This is not even a grey area legally, the P4 is legally toast without a Congressional Hail Mary giving the P4 and NCAA a Safe Harbor. The most divided Supreme Court since before the Civil War ruled 9-0 in the Alston case that college athletics is an ongoing anti-trust violation, which makes it unlikely they will even hear another anti-trust case, they will just refer to the Alston precedent. The House plaintiffs have a gun against the P4's head demanding a settlement now, or they are going to court in a case that the P4 is GUARANTEED TO LOSE.

Now the Catastrophists are saying that the ongoing anti-trust violation P4 is going to walk away from everyone else if the non-P4 schools do not cover a $1 billion settlement? Let the P4 walk. UConn could end up with their NIL budget covered by Ohio State and Alabama for the next 20 years.

This is not a remotely complicated decision. The best move by the Big East is to threaten to block the settlement. The P4 are named in the suit, the Big East isn't, and if the House case goes to court, it is going to end up being a lot worse than $2.8 billion.