The House case

[nelsonmuntz]

Nelson, I appreciate your dedication to this Northwestern thing, but it’s so far off base and blatantly just incorrect that I’m not even going to spend a ton of time trying to convince you otherwise. If you’re of the mindset that they’re building an $800M football stadium so they can play Penn and Harvard you’re more lost than anyone on this board is, including Shizzle.

I am not dedicated to anything Northwestern. I am just making an observation that Northwestern in the Big 10 is a bad fit for both sides, and the economic reason to stay there just became a lot less compelling, and may continue to get even less compelling if the Big 10 goes to an unequal revenue split. Maybe nothing happens, but if you are looking for points of instability in the conference landscape, the status of the elite academic schools that play D1 football stands out.

 

[Kolumbo]

I've also wondered how lax the top academic schools are with academic requirements for athletes. I've always assumed Northwestern and Vandy were very strict while Michigan and Texas and certainly UNC probably didn't care too much, but I don't know. It would seem the transfer portal would put NU at a disadvantage because the academics would be a big hurdle for many players.

Northwestern could still have a proud athletic tradition outside of the Big 10 and continue winning women's lacrosse championships while playing in another conference. The Ivy League schools are still proud of their storied programs while they compete against each other.

NU is building a new stadium and money is no object, but rather than a bigger stadium more like its conference mates, it is building a smaller MWC or AAC sized stadium. Imagine if UConn received a B1G invitation and decided to build a smaller stadium. Whoa, Nellie!!

 

[uconnyankee]

You think every P4 team is going to just keep marching along with those leagues. I heard you the first time. I love people coming down hard on a position (see @Patman @Rufus @John arguing last week that there would be no back pay for athletes, days before it was reported that the P4 are negotiating backpay for athletes). That is the great thing about this board. You have 10 minutes after posting to change a position, and after that, it is available for eternity.

You specifically said Northwestern.
I’m telling you, based on conversations with an NU alum, they are not going to walk away from BIG.
Now you’re changing the argument to be ‘EVERY P4 team’…

Will some schools pull back? Probably is a good guess. I would not bet on NU being one of them.

if anyone changed positions, it was you.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

One practice the P4 are engaging in which is a clearly anti-competitive practice is the 9 game schedule. The 20 game basketball schedule is also not on particularly firm ground. These scheduling practices would likely cost the majors some money if it was challenged by the G5.

There is a lot of legal precedent for enforcement against this kind of practice of restrictive scheduling. One of the more well known is that in the 80's, and I think into the 90's, Coca Cola used to require grocery stores to have exclusive promotions for all its products, focused on the colas, for 26 weeks of the year. By exclusive, the grocery store could not run another cola promotion the same week it was running one for Coca Cola. But shockingly, Pepsi also required grocery stores to commit to 26 weeks of exclusive promotions every year. Which meant that no other cola company could run a promotion at the grocery stores.

It is weird that these schools, many of whom have excellent law and business programs, never bothered to check with their own professors before they engaged in a bunch of stupid and obviously illegal behavior.

 

[Drew]

How in the world is a league playing 9 conference games an anti-competitive act? And by the way- only 2 of the 4 play 9 game league schedules

 

[billybud]

I think that some of us on this board have read the John Gresham novels, watched every episode of the Lincoln Lawyer and L.A. Law and have earned our JD in TV Law....

Count me in...I have watched every episode of the Lincoln Lawyer and read every book in the series, read all of the Gresham novels, and watched Judge Wapner on the People's Court.

 

[John]

One practice the P4 are engaging in which is a clearly anti-competitive practice is the 9 game schedule. The 20 game basketball schedule is also not on particularly firm ground. These scheduling practices would likely cost the majors some money if it was challenged by the G5.

There is a lot of legal precedent for enforcement against this kind of practice of restrictive scheduling. One of the more well known is that in the 80's, and I think into the 90's, Coca Cola used to require grocery stores to have exclusive promotions for all its products, focused on the colas, for 26 weeks of the year. By exclusive, the grocery store could not run another cola promotion the same week it was running one for Coca Cola. But shockingly, Pepsi also required grocery stores to commit to 26 weeks of exclusive promotions every year. Which meant that no other cola company could run a promotion at the grocery stores.

It is weird that these schools, many of whom have excellent law and business programs, never bothered to check with their own professors before they engaged in a bunch of stupid and obviously illegal behavior.

grasping at straws​

idiom

trying to find some way to succeed when nothing you choose is likely to work:

 

[nelsonmuntz]

grasping at straws​

idiom

trying to find some way to succeed when nothing you choose is likely to work:

So you are officially not even pretending to add anything of value to a realignment discussion? Good to know.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

One of the unfortunate byproducts of the House case could be a lot fewer kids on scholarship. A lot of these colleges are hurting for cash before having to pay players to compete. Some are going to bag the whole thing and drop or dramatically reduce scholarships.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

One of the unfortunate byproducts of the House case could be a lot fewer kids on scholarship. A lot of these colleges are hurting for cash before having to pay players to compete. Some are going to bag the whole thing and drop or dramatically reduce scholarships.

Seems like football programs will reduce scholarships. It's interesting that college programs have long been at 80+ man rosters as opposed to NFL rosters of 50+...

I might be wrong, but is there the possibility of full scholarships coming to non-revenue sports? For instance, baseball is capped at 11.7 scholarships. Maybe it was someone hypothesizing on that or maybe it would be a condition of the House case? Again, I might be dreaming that up. But, if true, I guess that would be an offset of FB reductions - if they were to happen.

I guess all of this is still TBD.

But this House case settlement seems to me to be legal quicksand. What's going to stop another suit just different enough to be brought that once again puts NCAA member schools in a position to fork out more dough?

 

[AllHusky]

Seems like football programs will reduce scholarships. It's interesting that college programs have long been at 80+ man rosters as opposed to NFL rosters of 50+...

I might be wrong, but is there the possibility of full scholarships coming to non-revenue sports? For instance, baseball is capped at 11.7 scholarships. Maybe it was someone hypothesizing on that or maybe it would be a condition of the House case? Again, I might be dreaming that up. But, if true, I guess that would be an offset of FB reductions - if they were to happen.

I guess all of this is still TBD.

But this House case settlement seems to me to be legal quicksand. What's going to stop another suit just different enough to be brought that once again puts NCAA member schools in a position to fork out more dough?

Not sure what you mean about “full scholarships coming to baseball”? They can give a full scholarship or slice and dice. It’s not a head count sport like fb/bb where everyone gets a full

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Seems like football programs will reduce scholarships. It's interesting that college programs have long been at 80+ man rosters as opposed to NFL rosters of 50+...

I might be wrong, but is there the possibility of full scholarships coming to non-revenue sports? For instance, baseball is capped at 11.7 scholarships. Maybe it was someone hypothesizing on that or maybe it would be a condition of the House case? Again, I might be dreaming that up. But, if true, I guess that would be an offset of FB reductions - if they were to happen.

I guess all of this is still TBD.

But this House case settlement seems to me to be legal quicksand. What's going to stop another suit just different enough to be brought that once again puts NCAA member schools in a position to fork out more dough?

There is some action by Congress now to provide a legal safe harbor so college can regulate athletics.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

There is some action by Congress now to provide a legal safe harbor so college can regulate athletics.

Do you think they'll do that any time soon?

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Not sure what you mean about “full scholarships coming to baseball”? They can give a full scholarship or slice and dice. It’s not a head count sport like fb/bb where everyone gets a full

I mean that they're capped at the equivalent of 11.7 scholarships for baseball, so most players only get a partial, unless they are a star player....

NCAA Division 1 (D1) baseball programs can offer a maximum of 11.7 athletic scholarships that can be divided among 27 players on a 39-player roster. A minimum of 25% of the total cost of attendance must be received by each D1 player on scholarship, which includes tuition, fees, books, room, and board. However, not every program awards the full allotment, and some conferences do not offer scholarships at all.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I wonder if any SEC school is going to argue that the payments its boosters made to its players under-the-table over the last 30 years should be used to offset damages for back payments. It is actually a legitimate legal argument by the SEC schools, albeit one that would be a public admission that they had been cheating all along.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[Exit 4]

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Why do I get the feeling that the bill ($20B) will be spread a bit more evenly among NCAA member schools than the revenues are spread.

 

[noeynox]

Why do I get the feeling that the bill ($20B) will be spread a bit more evenly among NCAA member schools than the revenues are spread.

Excellent point. Settlement should be spread on the same basis as the revenues from the tournament and CFP.

 

[CL82]

How would this work for Connecticut given that we are not a power conference school?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The best outcome for UConn is no settlement. Let it burn.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Excellent point. Settlement should be spread on the same basis as the revenues from the tournament and CFP.

Someone really has to look hard to catastrophize this situation for UConn. The NCAA is cooked on this, and the P4 are cooked by extension. This will be the one good thing to come out of UConn’s brutal performance in conference realignment. Playing in front of friends and family for over a decade means there is not much revenue for ex-UConn players to demand a share of.

Do the two plaintiff lawyers need to get approval from someone for that settlement? If I was a player, I wouldn’t vote for a $2.8 billion settlement if I was in this kind of driver’s seat. I would demand $5 billion for back pay alone.

 

[UConnJim]

From what I have heard and read on a potential settlement is that schools won't be required to pay the max revenue share to athletes, but not doing so would put you at a competitive disadvantage. I can see how the P2 can share the max as their revenues are taking a big jump with the CFP and new media deals, but I can't see how the ACC schools or Big 12 schools can afford it. Also, unclear if all athletes (including women) will share in revenues or if there will be an equal distribution among athletes and among sports. As for scholarships, there is talk of getting rid of scholarship limits and replacing them with roster limits with the individual schools deciding how many players will be on scholarship for a given sport. Probably have limited impact on football and basketball (what player wants to be the 15th scholarship basketball player and never play?), but it could have a huge impact on sports like baseball, softball, lacrosse,... So, if a school wants to invest in their baseball program, they will be allowed to.

If revenue sharing actually happens, some colleges are going to have to make tough choices. Most ADs are already losing money and now they are going to lose more money? That is why Clemson and FSU are throwing a fit and UNC is now worried as they need more revenues to compete with the P2.

 

[UConnJim]

I've also wondered how lax the top academic schools are with academic requirements for athletes. I've always assumed Northwestern and Vandy were very strict while Michigan and Texas and certainly UNC probably didn't care too much, but I don't know. It would seem the transfer portal would put NU at a disadvantage because the academics would be a big hurdle for many players.

Here is the deal. D1 academic schools will give some academic leeway to revenue producing sports, but they will give almost no academic leeway to non revenue sports. Even at academic D3 schools, a school may give the football coach a few spots for kids who aren't top academic kids but the golf coach will not be given any.

 

[uchusky32]

What about those that were cheating? They did pay some. Lol.