Texas AD Squashing FSU Talk?

[businesslawyer]

Here's my digression: Syracuse from 1968-1986: 91-115-2 only 2 seasons with 7 wins and 2 bowls going 1-1 in bottom tier bowls. This decade, the last 12 years, they are a deplorable 45-73.

What you are talking about is a golden era of 13 years out of the last 44 with seven 9 wins seasons or better from 1987-1999.

Thank you.

 

[docsu]

It isn't a 50 year decision anymore, times have changed. FSU is a big enough brand that they will always have a good home. They should take the money and run. If they ever need to move again, so be it.

No that's how the internet sees it. The moves made thusfar had more thought process than just the next TV contract.

 

[freescooter]

Syracuse has an interesting view of their program...just to give it a little perspective, over the last 25 games with Penn State, the mighty Orange have managed to put together an impressive 3 wins...and the games have rarely been close. If they are the "other" national power in the northeast over the years, as they seem to see themselves, they are clearly far behind the leader...

 

[ZooCougar]

The ACC is the best fit. Better than the Big 10 by a mile. The Big 10 is a classy conference, but more of our alums are on the Atlantic seaboard than the midwest. If they added Rutgers and UConn to the conference then really the only conference opponent that we would be without that we actually gave a crap about is WVU, (although I would kind of miss Cincy).

I would rather travel to Charlottesville in the fall than Bloomington. When people think of joining the Big 10, they think of Michigan, Ohio State or even Wisconsin. But they also forget about dogs like Illinois, Michigan State, Indiana and let's face it, nobody is going to get in a car and road trip it to Madison, Iowa City, and Minneapolis.

In the ACC, BCU, SU, Pitt, RU (potentially), Maryland, UVA and VT are all within a 9-10 hour drive. Well, VT is probably a little beyond 10 hrs..

 

[The Funster]

No that's how the internet sees it. The moves made thusfar had more thought process than just the next TV contract.

Did they have more thought? How many traditional rivalries have gone by the wayside? How will new rivalries be created when geography gets in the way? What new rivalries has BC created and if they have none, why do you think SU will be able to create them?

This realignment stinks. I'd say to you that they were incredibly short sighted. I'm not saying this just because UConn is currently on the outside looking in, either. If UConn and Syracuse were joining the ACC I would feel the same way. I've said it right along, 20 years from now people will look back on this period and ask, "What the hell were they thinking?"

I'm not trying to be a (well, except to IthacaMatt and the SU fans who are laughing at our situation) but if FSU and Clemson feel slighted by Tobacco Road and BC is looking to be in a freefall what makes you think that SU will flourish in the ACC? Seriously, the best thing for SU IS UConn and Rutgers being asked to join. At least then you would have a 5 team northern block (6 including an unhappy MD) and if you included Clemson and FSU you'd have at least 50% of the teams that could vote against Tobacco Road and put pressure on Tobacco Road for equity in scheduling and future negotiating.

Seriously, if SU, Pitt and BC wanted to play it smart, they'd be agressively advocating for UConn and Rutgers to get invites. It would be win/win.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Also funny to hear SU fans refer to other programs as "sack of **** teams", when reality is Cuse has been the sack of **** team for the past 8 years (and it's on the field success is not looking much brighter in the coming years).

Funny, but for being such a crappy team, we're having ANOTHER of our former players put into the college hall of fame this year. I believe we have 5th or 6th most of all football programs.

 

[huskymedic]

... My point is, maybe in the end, the biggest of the big boys should play on the biggest stage and the rest should go in another direction. Sad, but true.

I find that hard to disagree with...

 

[gioff23]

Funny, but for being such a crappy team, we're having ANOTHER of our former players put into the college hall of fame this year. I believe we have 5th or 6th most of all football programs.

Almost 5th or 6th

Institution#Last inductee
Notre Dame 43 2010
Michigan 30 2011
Southern California 28 2007
Ohio State 27 2010
Army 24 2004
Pittsburgh 24 2005
Penn State 22 2009
Oklahoma 22 2007
Minnesota 21 2009
Princeton 21 2002
Yale 21 2007
Tennessee 20 2006
Navy 19 2002
Alabama 18 2009
Pennsylvania 18 2001
Texas 17 2009
Harvard 17 2010
Stanford 16 2006
California 15 2004
Nebraska 14 2009​

 

[docsu]

Did they have more thought? How many traditional rivalries have gone by the wayside? How will new rivalries be created when geography gets in the way? What new rivalries has BC created and if they have none, why do you think SU will be able to create them?

This realignment stinks. I'd say to you that they were incredibly short sighted. I'm not saying this just because UConn is currently on the outside looking in, either. If UConn and Syracuse were joining the ACC I would feel the same way. I've said it right along, 20 years from now people will look back on this period and ask, "What the hell were they thinking?"

I'm not trying to be a (well, except to IthacaMatt and the SU fans who are laughing at our situation) but if FSU and Clemson feel slighted by Tobacco Road and BC is looking to be in a freefall what makes you think that SU will flourish in the ACC? Seriously, the best thing for SU IS UConn and Rutgers being asked to join. At least then you would have a 5 team northern block (6 including an unhappy MD) and if you included Clemson and FSU you'd have at least 50% of the teams that could vote against Tobacco Road and put pressure on Tobacco Road for equity in scheduling and future negotiating.

Seriously, if SU, Pitt and BC wanted to play it smart, they'd be agressively advocating for UConn and Rutgers to get invites. It would be win/win.

It's 450 miles from Lincoln to Norman, OK.

822 to Austin, Tx

136 to Manhattan (hey that's a close one!)

321 to Columbia

502 miles to Boulder

It's not like geography was doing Nebraska any favors in the XII. And let's be honest. Once you get past a certain distance, a plane trip is a plane trip. From an academic, cultural and stability standpoint that move made sense. Ditto with Colorado and Utah. The Big East is a confederacy of schools with different philosphies spread out over the country. It's membership is such jumbled mess of partial membership I can't follow anymore. It's destined to fail. If Syracuse or Pittsburgh didn't leave someone else would have. It's not any school's fault. It's just the culmination of decades of poor decsion making and lack of vision by the leadership of the conference.

I don't follow the logic that whatever will happen to BC will happen to SU because they're both private schools.

As of right now Syracuse, BC, Pitt, Maryland, and Miami already form a bloc of "norther schools."

 

[docsu]

Almost 5th or 6th

Institution#Last inductee​

Notre Dame 43 2010​

Michigan 30 2011​

Southern California 28 2007​

Ohio State 27 2010​

Army 24 2004​

Pittsburgh 24 2005​

Penn State 22 2009​

Oklahoma 22 2007​

Minnesota 21 2009​

Princeton 21 2002​

Yale 21 2007​

Tennessee 20 2006​

Navy 19 2002​

Alabama 18 2009​

Pennsylvania 18 2001​

Texas 17 2009​

Harvard 17 2010​

Stanford 16 2006​

California 15 2004​

Nebraska 14 2009​

Yeah SU is tied for 6th most alums in the NFL hall of fame.

 

[TuxedoYoda]

I'm sick and tired of these short-term thinking whiners. The ACC has a perfectly acceptable football lineup. The only reason it seems weak is that schools like Florida State have under performed. So has Miami, and Clemson, and North Carolina. Virgina Tech hasn't been quite as good either.

So, other than everyone sucking, it is a helluva football conference.

Just look at the Strength of Schedule rankings from the end of last season.

The football is better in the Big 12 instead of the ACC.
The money to be made is much better in the Big 12 instead of the ACC.....

......AND FSU would be better off academically in the Big 12 than in the ACC:

http://tuxedoyoda.blogspot.com/2012/05/fsu-chose-academics-over-football.html

 

[HuskyHawk]

Did they have more thought? How many traditional rivalries have gone by the wayside? How will new rivalries be created when geography gets in the way? What new rivalries has BC created and if they have none, why do you think SU will be able to create them?

This realignment stinks. I'd say to you that they were incredibly short sighted. I'm not saying this just because UConn is currently on the outside looking in, either. If UConn and Syracuse were joining the ACC I would feel the same way. I've said it right along, 20 years from now people will look back on this period and ask, "What the hell were they thinking?"
...
Seriously, if SU, Pitt and BC wanted to play it smart, they'd be agressively advocating for UConn and Rutgers to get invites. It would be win/win.

Some of the realignment stinks. Some is logical. Utah joining the Pac 10 was logical. Colorado was borderline...they are a decent fit either way. Had the Big 12 invited Utah and Nevada some time ago, Colorado would have been less of an outcast. Nebraska to the Big Ten is logical. They broke ties with OU and Kansas to the south, but are with neighboring Iowa. A&M to the SEC and Missouri to the SEC are about like the Colorado move. Yes, old ties were severed, but they are in contiguous states and have logical new connections. Missouri is close to Arkansas and Kentucky. A&M to Arkansas and LSU. TCU to the Big 12 is logical. All of these moves will make sense 20 years from now.

To the east it gets murky. The moves of VT and Miami made perfect sense. BC did not make sense unless you take the long view that Pitt, Syracuse, UConn and Rutgers would join them. We're half way there. In that light, the Atlantic Cost Conference would have most of the Atlantic Coast FBS programs. Long term, it could be a very stable conference. The one move I can see that made little to no sense is West Virgina to the Big 12. There is just no long term fit. If FSU moved to the Big 12 it would be the same. If the Big 12 wants stability it should look to New Mexico.

None of the Big East moves have any long term chance. At best, there is a chance for Louisville, Cincy, Memphis, CFU, SFU to perhaps combine with some other schools, but Boise and SDSU won't be those schools in the long run. Houston and SMU...maybe. I'm glad the stupid CUSA - MWC merger collapsed. La Tech to CUSA made sense.

 

[docsu]

The one move I can see that made little to no sense is West Virgina to the Big 12. There is just no long term fit.

No but the ACC and SEC didn't want them. They could either join the XII or stay in the Big East.

Which is better?

 

[UConnDan97]

So, other than everyone sucking, it is a helluva football conference.

Just look at the Strength of Schedule rankings from the end of last season.

The football is better in the Big 12 instead of the ACC.
The money to be made is much better in the Big 12 instead of the ACC.....

......AND FSU would be better off academically in the Big 12 than in the ACC:

http://tuxedoyoda.blogspot.com/2012/05/fsu-chose-academics-over-football.html[/quote]

I agree with almost all of this (except the academics, which the FSU BOT Chair has already admitted plays no role in their decisions). I was going to add Duke, Wake, and Maryland to the list, but why go that far.

The thing that bothers me about the "temporary suck" post is that the exact same thing can be said about Houston and SMU also. Except for some reason, those schools don't get the same pass that a school like Wake or Maryland gets, and I can't figure out why, other than the same old biased mentality that has ruined FBS football for quite some time. It's the same mentality that starts Notre Dame in the preseason top 10 every year, only to watch them fall to the 30's in most years. That's also what makes me skeptical about the new 4 team playoff system that will most certainly be just as biased...

 

[freescooter]

I find that hard to disagree with...

I actually do disagree with that perspective. There was a time when the idea of UCONN being a national power in any sport was totally insane. If you suggested it people would laugh out loud. We were, and were seen as, a New England player...not quite at the level of Providence and Hoy Cross in Basketball, not quite the Ivy League or BC in football...The idea that eastern football programs can't compete with the national programs is just silly. Beyond that, the Big 10 isn't going away just because they aren't the SEC. The Big 12 isn't going away because they aren't Texas. There is clearly room for other programs to earn their way into the upper echelon, Boise, Texas Christian, are a couple of examples. West virginia was righ ton the cusp until they made a foolish hire...Virginia Tech is another one...there were those who thought the Big East was crazy to take them in they were just so awful. Now they are a perennial Top 20 team. And people forget that Miami was nothing special until Schnellenberger arrived around 1980...oh every now and then they would show up in the polls, but it was a sometimes thing.

 

[Marty Jackson]

One of the funnier aspects of all this is watching some of you get whipsawed back and forth by every statement that comes out.

Even if this happens, FSU will officially be committed to the ACC and the Big 12 will be officially happy at 10 teams until about four minutes before they announce that FSU has been invited and has accepted an invite to join the Big 12.

What they say and what they think are two different things. What they're doing and what they want to do are two different things. What they say they are committed to and what they are committed to are two different things. Do you really think UConn is happy and committed to the Big East or that they were shocked that the commish walked the plank last week? No, no and no.

Didn't Warde just say he is happy in the Big East, and that's where we're committed?

 

[Marty Jackson]

An honest question - why is it such a great deal for FSU to join the Big 12? They'll be trading the North Carolina schools as their masters for Texas as their master. They'll still have crappy football opponents who won't sell out their stadium. The only place they WANT to go is the SEC, and the SEC is too far downstream academically for their faculty and BOT to accept it; not that the SEC is champing at the bit to offer them, anyway.

I think it's bigger than that. FSU may deal with NC but at least the revenue is shared equally. In Big12, the $'s are not spread equally which means FSU would literally take a back seat to Texas.
Which brings a question... The big12 contract has been mentioned at roughly $20M/school on average. But if it's not spread equally, how big is the disparity? Is WVU going to get $12M while Texas gets $25M?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think it's bigger than that. FSU may deal with NC but at least the revenue is shared equally. In Big12, the $'s are not spread equally which means FSU would literally take a back seat to Texas.
Which brings a question... The big12 contract has been mentioned at roughly $20M/school on average. But if it's not spread equally, how big is the disparity? Is WVU going to get $12M while Texas gets $25M?

FSU is definitely going to be trailing Texas if they stay in the ACC.

The disparity comes in Tier 3 revenues. Texas gets about $15MM a year through the LHN, while Oklahoma may get $6 to $8 million a year depending on which estimate you believe. Apparently a few schools are going to pool their Tier 3 content, and expect to get about $4MM each for it. So Iowa State will be making $25MM a year while FSU is making $17MM. How does that make Seminole fans feel?

 

[The Funster]

Lincoln to Champlaign 445

to Lansing 722

to Bloomington 549

to Iowa City 273

to Minneapolis 328

Should I go on? It's not just the geographical distance but the rivalries that were built over the years. And how is Nebraska more culturally in tune with the Big 10 as opposed to the Big 12? Academically might be stretch too.

In regards to SU, you still haven't answered some of my questions: if FSU and Clemson feel slighted by Tobacco Road what makes you think the northern newcomers will be treated equally? Why do you think SU will flourish in the ACC? BC is the only thing you can look at objectively and try to draw a conclusion from. What about BC would give you confidence?

You want to paint a nice realignment picture for SU. I understand that. It's human nature. The reality is, however, as you pointed out SU bolted because the BE became untenable because of years of weak leadership. Just because SU left a crappy situation does not mean that jumped into a great one. It's not. The ACC has it's own flaws some of which may be serious enough to leave the ACC almost as vulnerable as the Big East was.

Realignment could have been handled better. It could have been dealt with logically and more inclusively. It wasn't, though and we all will have to deal with it. You'll disagree, I understand. Let's see how we feel in 10 years.

 

[Hoophound]

I actually do disagree with that perspective. There was a time when the idea of UCONN being a national power in any sport was totally insane. If you suggested it people would laugh out loud. We were, and were seen as, a New England player...not quite at the level of Providence and Hoy Cross in Basketball, not quite the Ivy League or BC in football...The idea that eastern football programs can't compete with the national programs is just silly. Beyond that, the Big 10 isn't going away just because they aren't the SEC. The Big 12 isn't going away because they aren't Texas. There is clearly room for other programs to earn their way into the upper echelon, Boise, Texas Christian, are a couple of examples. West virginia was righ ton the cusp until they made a foolish hire...Virginia Tech is another one...there were those who thought the Big East was crazy to take them in they were just so awful. Now they are a perennial Top 20 team. And people forget that Miami was nothing special until Schnellenberger arrived around 1980...oh every now and then they would show up in the polls, but it was a sometimes thing.

I agree. What I was really getting at was the fact that FSU wanting to rub elbows with Texas rather than Syracuse just makes sense. They are a huge southern public university with big football aspirations. Syracuse is a northern private with much less in terms of resources, program value etc. The grouping of the big dogs is no surprise.

If a school like UConn is going to make a splash it is going to be because they win games, have a strong and long term coaching staff and play in a conference that they can compete in. In my opinion, the best chance of that happening for schools like UConn, BC, Cuse, Rutgers, UVA, Wake etc is in a conference together whether or not FSU is there. Let the big schools play each other in conference and get paid the most money. They are producing the most money.

 

[docsu]

Lincoln to Champlaign 445

to Lansing 722

to Bloomington 549

to Iowa City 273




Should I go on? It's not just the geographical distance but the rivalries that were built over the years. And how is Nebraska more culturally in tune with the Big 10 as opposed to the Big 12? Academically might be stretch too.

In regards to SU, you still haven't answered some of my questions: if FSU and Clemson feel slighted by Tobacco Road what makes you think the northern newcomers will be treated equally? Why do you think SU will flourish in the ACC? BC is the only thing you can look at objectively and try to draw a conclusion from. What about BC would give you confidence?

You want to paint a nice realignment picture for SU. I understand that. It's human nature. The reality is, however, as you pointed out SU bolted because the BE became untenable because of years of weak leadership. Just because SU left a crappy situation does not mean that jumped into a great one. It's not. The ACC has it's own flaws some of which may be serious enough to leave the ACC almost as vulnerable as the Big East was.

Realignment could have been handled better. It could have been dealt with logically and more inclusively. It wasn't, though and we all will have to deal with it. You'll disagree, I understand. Let's see how we feel in 10 years.

Yes, there are long trips in both conferences. Are the trips in the Big 10 longer? Sure. If you're jumping in a plane anyway, does it make that big of a difference? Probably not.

Nebraska is a big land grant university joining likewise insitutions. And they share revenue equally. And they make sense geographically.

I don't harbor any fantasies about Syracuse joingin the ACC but it certainly is a better situation than staying in a conference that recently extended membership to schools in Idaho, California, and a stray service academy. Certainly more stable than some of the more extrem posters around here would like to believe.

And Syracuse is not Boston College. BC is in a pro sports town with little to no fan support. They're northeastern colleges that are private and are in the same conference. Becasue of this people feel the need to beleive that their desitines are intertwined.

 

[HuskyHawk]

So, other than everyone sucking, it is a helluva football conference.

Just look at the Strength of Schedule rankings from the end of last season.

The football is better in the Big 12 instead of the ACC.
The money to be made is much better in the Big 12 instead of the ACC.....

......AND FSU would be better off academically in the Big 12 than in the ACC:

http://tuxedoyoda.blogspot.com/2012/05/fsu-chose-academics-over-football.html

Who cares about the strength of schedule from last year? Is Houston a better program than Tennessee? Miami has won titles. FSU has won titles. VT, GT and Clemson have been very, very good. Even BC. Maryland has been good, North Carolina has been good. Just because Missouri and Oklahoma State just both recently had the greatest seasons in their history doesn't make them powerhouses (and one is now gone anyway). Kansas won a freaking Orange Bowl a few years ago and now they stink again. In 1990 Colorado looked like team that would be good for years to come. Yes, the Big 12 has an excellent recent history in football. But look at the first 5 BCS championship games. 10 teams (current conf affiliation): SEC: 1 B10: 2 B12: 1 ACC: 6. This is not ancient history. Lately it flipped. It will flip again, and the Pac 10 or Big 10 or even the ACC will go on a run.

 

[UConnDan97]

Who cares about the strength of schedule from last year? Is Houston a better program than Tennessee? Miami has won titles. FSU has won titles. VT, GT and Clemson have been very, very good. Even BC. Maryland has been good, North Carolina has been good. Just because Missouri and Oklahoma State just both recently had the greatest seasons in their history doesn't make them powerhouses (and one is now gone anyway). Kansas won a freaking Orange Bowl a few years ago and now they stink again. In 1990 Colorado looked like team that would be good for years to come. Yes, the Big 12 has an excellent recent history in football. But look at the first 5 BCS championship games. 10 teams (current conf affiliation): SEC: 1 B10: 2 B12: 1 ACC: 6. This is not ancient history. Lately it flipped. It will flip again, and the Pac 10 or Big 10 or even the ACC will go on a run.

Your post cracks me up. It is extremely skewed, from the way you try to marginalize Mizzou and Oklahoma State instead of Maryland and UNC as "short term good teams" to the fact that you were extremely careful to type "current conf affiliation." You did that so that some readers wouldn't realize that the ACC number would go down to 3 (all FSU) and the Big East number would jump to 3 (Miami, Va Tech). Miami and Va Tech haven't been back to the National Championship game since they joined the ACC. That's the whole point of the posts that preceded yours; that especially in the case of Miami, they have name recognition without having the high-powered team of the past.

Are you willing to give SMU credit for 3 national championships as a school? I'm guessing not. How many other programs would have climbed out of the ashes of "The Death Penalty" though, I wonder...

 

[The Funster]

Yes, there are long trips in both conferences. Are the trips in the Big 10 longer? Sure. If you're jumping in a plane anyway, does it make that big of a difference? Probably not.

Nebraska is a big land grant university joining likewise insitutions. And they share revenue equally. And they make sense geographically.

I don't harbor any fantasies about Syracuse joingin the ACC but it certainly is a better situation than staying in a conference that recently extended membership to schools in Idaho, California, and a stray service academy. Certainly more stable than some of the more extrem posters around here would like to believe.

And Syracuse is not Boston College. BC is in a pro sports town with little to no fan support. They're northeastern colleges that are private and are in the same conference. Becasue of this people feel the need to beleive that their desitines are intertwined.

I wish you luck and that is sincere. There is no doubt you're in a better conference than the FrankensteinBigEast. I still think the whole thing could have been handled better. I blame Tranghese and BC more than anybody and wish there was a little more backbone from all the parties that left. Except for Miami, good riddance to them. I'll still not withhold my ire and derision for the SU fans that wish ill on UConn. Karma has a way of kicking ass and I won't resist a chuckle when it does.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I don't harbor any fantasies about Syracuse joingin the ACC but it certainly is a better situation than staying in a conference that recently extended membership to schools in Idaho, California, and a stray service academy. Certainly more stable than some of the more extrem posters around here would like to believe.

And Syracuse is not Boston College. BC is in a pro sports town with little to no fan support. They're northeastern colleges that are private and are in the same conference. Becasue of this people feel the need to beleive that their desitines are intertwined.

You don't get to light fire to our house and then complain about the way we fight it. Syracuse made the Big East unstable.

BCU is in a much better situation than Syracuse. It is in a bigger city that is vibrant and doing well, unlike Syracuse which is a dead factory town.