Texas AD Squashing FSU Talk?

[nelsonmuntz]

What is your basis for this list?

Basis for the list is:

a) The Big 10 has looked at and passed on every school from the Big East or Big 12 in the last year or so. I am sure that Oklahoma, Missouri, Okie Lite, Kansas, Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, and UConn have all approached the Big 10 in the last year, because all were looking for a home, and the Big 10 didn't take any of them. Unless something has changed to make one of those schools more attractive, they already have their answer from the Big 10.

b) Texas and ND are rumored to have approached the Big 10, but it was complicated and the Big 10 passed. Either that, or they were never interested in the Big 10 in the first place. Either way, nothing has changed to make them likely to join the Big 10.

c) Delaney has said in the past he wants new markets and would look to "demographic trends" to drive expansion.

http://blog.al.com/solomon/2010/05/delany_demographics_in_south_m.html

North Carolina and Virginia are fast growing border states that, unlike the rest of the South, are increasingly affluent. UNC and UVa are the anchor public universities in both states.

d) UNC and UVa are both top public universities and members of the AAU. They are the two most prestigious public universities available for any conference to add.

Maryland kind of meets the threshold, but their finances are a mess, and it is not as prestigious as UVa or UNC. I don't see anyone else from the ACC or SEC making the cut for either academic or market reasons. I also don't think the Big 10 will add a program that is #2 in a market.

 

[ZooCougar]

Make sure you tell the recruits about that 61-6 ass whipping in 1852.

 

[Dann]

tcu announced thats its 100% sold out for this year already. only standing room tix will be be sold later....

 

[RS9999X]

I am too lazy to look it up, and you probably have it at your fingertips, but that IMG contract isn't a Tier 3 so much as a re-marketing agreement for the university, right? That is completely portable, and something they would get in the Big 12 on top of the Tier 1, 2 and 3, right?

Exactly. Portable with minor tweaks. And the $3.5 million Raycom and B12 Network deals are likely a financial wash for FSU.

Where they are really screwed is with the ABC/ESPN contract. Add the B12 conference game and they are down $8 or $9 million on that alone. $13 mil versus $22 plus the NCAA tourney and Bowl differentials in most years.

I can buy the $128 million shortfall over the life of the contract But it isn't in 24/7 FSU reruns, Bass Fishing w/ the FSU Team, and the FSU basketball gals and the yearly Savannah State game. That's die hard FSU Football players talking

They need all that other ACC content to make it work and it will still be a regional sports model like Oklahoma (and SNY) instead of a separate cable channel like Longhorn. Longhorn is similar to having the UConn Sports Network as a separate SNY Channel for CT with a hefty Carrier Charge and shoved down the throats of the cable public.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Exactly. Portable with minor tweaks. And the $3.5 million Raycom and B12 Network deals are likely a financial wash for FSU.

Where they are really screwed is with the ABC/ESPN contract. Add the B12 conference game and they are down $8 or $9 million on that alone. $13 mil versus $22 plus the NCAA tourney and Bowl differentials in most years.

I can buy the $128 million shortfall over the life of the contract But it isn't in 24/7 FSU reruns, Bass Fishing w/ the FSU Team, and the FSU basketball gals and the yearly Savannah State game. That's die hard FSU Football players talking

They need all that other ACC content to make it work and it will still be a regional sports model like Oklahoma (and SNY) instead of a separate cable channel like Longhorn. Longhorn is similar to having the UConn Sports Network as a separate SNY Channel for CT with a hefty Carrier Charge and shoved down the throats of the cable public.

It also depends on whether the Big 12 goes with 8 or 9 conference games. I have a strong suspicion that the Playoff Structure will encourage aggressive non-conference scheduling, like it does in hoops, and TV loves inter-conference games. The ACC is locked into 9 games, but if the Big 12 goes with 8, but with a guarantee of quality OOC matchups, you could see the equivalent of an extra home game for FSU every 3 or 4 years by being in the Big 12.

 

[specialisthusky]

Syracuse is the 15th winningest program in Division 1-A college football history

Only USC (11), ND (10), UM (8) and Ohio St (8) have more members in the Pro Football Hall of Fame than Syracuse (7)

Syracuse is the 5th winningest program in Division I college basketball history, trailing only Kentucky, UNC, Kansas and Duke

Syracuse has the 7th highest winning percentage in Division I college basketball history

this reminds me of the list Kentucky Basketball fans shove down the internets' throat...except less impressive and using data even older. Oh and that movie about Ernie Davis sucked

 

[nelsonmuntz]

stop feeding the trolls.

 

[RS9999X]

It also depends on whether the Big 12 goes with 8 or 9 conference games. I have a strong suspicion that the Playoff Structure will encourage aggressive non-conference scheduling, like it does in hoops, and TV loves inter-conference games. The ACC is locked into 9 games, but if the Big 12 goes with 8, but with a guarantee of quality OOC matchups, you could see the equivalent of an extra home game for FSU every 3 or 4 years by being in the Big 12.

If the 12 went with 9 games, FSU would play Florida and Miami every year (as they always do) and do a Home Gate game against the best Florida Barbershop school available as the season opener.

 

[RS9999X]

Syracuse is the 15th winningest program in Division 1-A college football history

Only USC (11), ND (10), UM (8) and Ohio St (8) have more members in the Pro Football Hall of Fame than Syracuse (7)

Syracuse is the 5th winningest program in Division I college basketball history, trailing only Kentucky, UNC, Kansas and Duke

Syracuse has the 7th highest winning percentage in Division I college basketball history

Dude, I lived there in the 70s when Larry Csonka was tearing it up for Miami and they financed the Dome.

What is this, the pathetic 40-year High School reunion?

Let's talk about the grandson of Tebucky Jones and where he's going?

 

[freescooter]

Syracuse is the 15th winningest program in Division 1-A college football history

Only USC (11), ND (10), UM (8) and Ohio St (8) have more members in the Pro Football Hall of Fame than Syracuse (7)

Syracuse is the 5th winningest program in Division I college basketball history, trailing only Kentucky, UNC, Kansas and Duke

Syracuse has the 7th highest winning percentage in Division I college basketball history

Football All Americans (by year)

Name Year Team
Horr, Marquis F. (Bill) 1908 First
Schlacter, Christopher P. 1915 First
White, Harold A. 1915 First
Cobb, Alfred R. 1917 First
Alexander, J.A. (Joe) 1918-19-20 First
Usher, Louis C. 1918 First
Gulick, Bertrand 1920 First
MacRae, Edander G. (Pete) 1923 First
Hanson, Victor 1926 First
Steen, James 1934 First
Fleck, Robert R. 1952-53 First
Brown, James N. 1956 First
Luciano, Ronald M. 1958 First
Davis, Roger W. 1959 First
Mautino, Fred J. 1959 First
Yates, Robert E. 1959 First
Davis, Ernest R. 1960-61 First
Killorin, Patrick M. 1964-65 First
Little, Floyd D. 1964, 1965, 1966 First
Brown, Charles E. 1965 First
Bugenhagen, Gary A. 1966 First
Csonka, Lawrence R. 1966-67 First
Kyasky, Anthony J. 1968 First
Ehrmann, Joseph C. 1970 First
Myers, Thomas P. 1971 First
Preston, Raymond N. 1975 First
Monk, J. Arthur 1979 First
Anderson, Gary 1981 First
Charles, Michael 1982 First
Green, Timothy J. 1984-85 First
Gregory, Theodore 1987 First
McPherson, Donald R. 1987 First
Paul, Markus D. 1988 First
Flannery, John 1990 First
Ismail, Qadry R. 1991 First
Gedney, Christopher J. 1992 First
Harrison, Marvin D. 1995 First
Abrams, Kevin R. 1995-96 First
Darius, Donovin L. 1997 First
Johnson, Kevin L. 1998 First
Freeney, Dwight 2001 First

BOWL GAMES (13-9-1)
SEASON BOWL OPPONENT RESULT SCORE
2010 Pinstripe Kansas State W 36-34
2004 Champs Sports Georgia Tech L 14-51
2001 Insight.com Kansas State W 26-3
1999 Music City Kentucky W 20-13
1998 Orange Florida L 10-31
1997 Fiesta Kansas State L 18-35
1996 Liberty Houston W 30-17
1995 Gator Clemson W 41-0
1992 Fiesta Colorado W 26-22
1991 Hall Of Fame Ohio State W 24-17
1990 Aloha Arizona W 28-0
1989 Peach Georgia W 19-18
1988 Hall Of Fame Louisiana State W 23-10
1987 Sugar Auburn T 16-16
1985 Cherry Maryland L 18-35
1979 Independence McNeese State W 31-7
1966 Gator Tennessee L 12-18
1964 Sugar Louisiana State L 10-13
1961 Liberty Miami FL W 15-14
1959 Cotton Texas W 23-14
1958 Orange Oklahoma L 6-21
1956 Cotton Texas Christian L 27-28
1952 Orange Alabama L 6-61

 

[freescooter]

this reminds me of the list Kentucky Basketball fans shove down the internets' throat...except less impressive and using data even older. Oh and that movie about Ernie Davis sucked

Yeah, and 2nd behind only Penn State in the number of boys abused by their coaches...

 

[MattMang23]

Why is it that every list of Syracuse football accomplishments always looks like it comes to a screeching halt once the 2000s hit?

 

[UConnDan97]

Why is it that every list of Syracuse football accomplishments always looks like it comes to a screeching halt once the 2000s hit?

Answer: Because that's when UConn's list starts.

 

[SAMCRO]

Funny, but for being such a crappy team, we're having ANOTHER of our former players put into the college hall of fame this year. I believe we have 5th or 6th most of all football programs.

Do they have any eligibility left?

 

[SAMCRO]

Yeah SU is tied for 6th most alums in the NFL hall of fame.

Again, do they have any eligibility left? B/c if not then WTF do they have to do with SU on the field today. What is it, 5 straight wins for UConn over SU? 6 out of 7?

 

[junglehusky]

What is your basis for this list?

I think that target list is probably accurate, though I'm guessing Nelson likes it because it ensures his "death of the ACC" prediction comes to fruition. I don't know how likely UNC is to go. I think they would if NC State left for the SEC but if not I don't think they are an automatic yes. I'd give a slight edge to UVa packaged with Maryland, then if NC State and VT leave for the SEC or B12 it ratchets up the pressure on UNC. Then the B10 can choose among UNC, ND, GTech, Rutgers and UConn for the 14th and 16th spots.

 

[auggie22]

Syracuse was once brimming with ball bearing bushing tycoons, and awash in chimney cap money. A few years later their football team won a national championship (did we have 50 states then?), scored a few Helms trophy's on the hardwood...and rolled steadily down hill since. If it wasn't for the Carmelo Anthony rental, we would all think of SU as the typewriter of college sports.

How can you save a school that small and isolated without saving the city in which it resides? How can you save that city without restoring the erie canal?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think that target list is probably accurate, though I'm guessing Nelson likes it because it ensures his "death of the ACC" prediction comes to fruition. I don't know how likely UNC is to go. I think they would if NC State left for the SEC but if not I don't think they are an automatic yes. I'd give a slight edge to UVa packaged with Maryland, then if NC State and VT leave for the SEC or B12 it ratchets up the pressure on UNC. Then the B10 can choose among UNC, ND, GTech, Rutgers and UConn for the 14th and 16th spots.

I very much hope I am wrong. I think UConn's best hope for a soft landing is that the SEC and Big 10 leave the ACC alone, and the Big 12 takes 2-4 teams. The ACC would be forced to add UConn and Rutgers in that scenario. We also have an indication that UConn would make the cut, since it was considered one of the most valuable additions the first time around.

I keep wishing the Big 10 would take UConn and Rutgers. The only theory that would support that addition is that the Big 10 is waiting for their ESPN deal to be renewed, I believe in 2016. Personally, I think they believe they already own the northeast and don't need Rutgers or UConn, especially with the ACC potentially getting weakened.

 

[mattp]

let's be realistic about what would happen to the ACC if they lost two of Clemson, FSU, VTech, Miami, whoever. they'd still be a power conference. sure they'd be locked in at number 5, but that's really no different than now, and they'll still have a seat at the table. some people here make it like the BE and ACC are both going to have their best 4 teams picked over and the remaining 20+ teams are going to be absorbed into CUSA never to compete again. that's not going to happen because there's about 40 Senators and their accompanying Congressmen that would have a fit about it. i just don't see how it's feasible for the top 4 conferences to decide to exclude the other 6 conferences from the championship picture.

 

[Section205]

According to former LB and Fla St trustee Derrick Brooks "Big 12 is coming after us (Fla St). There's no doubt we're going to listen. If anyone comes in and talks, there's no harm in listening to what the pitch is. There's been no commitment at all."

http://www.tallahassee.com/article/...sey=tab|topnews|text|frontpage&nclick_check=1

 

[RS9999X]

let's be realistic about what would happen to the ACC if they lost two of Clemson, FSU, VTech, Miami, whoever. they'd still be a power conference. sure they'd be locked in at number 5, but that's really no different than now, and they'll still have a seat at the table. some people here make it like the BE and ACC are both going to have their best 4 teams picked over and the remaining 20+ teams are going to be absorbed into CUSA never to compete again. that's not going to happen because there's about 40 Senators and their accompanying Congressmen that would have a fit about it. i just don't see how it's feasible for the top 4 conferences to decide to exclude the other 6 conferences from the championship picture.

FSU and Miami are the only two properties that deliver ratings and the Miami property is as badly mismanaged as Rutgers or Maryland making it worth less every year.

 

[freescooter]

FSU and Miami are the only two properties that deliver ratings and the Miami property is as badly mismanaged as Rutgers or Maryland making it worth less every year.

I agree and why I don't get the Clemson scenario. Oh I imagine if Clemson has th eopportunity they'd go in a heartbeat, but if you were setting up a league and had to choose one of VT, FSU, Miami or Clemson I'm not sure that a program that has accomplished as little as Clemson would be high on your list. Had their best season in 20 years and got blown so far out of the Orange bowl that they are still trying to find the remains...

 

[Marty Jackson]

Syracuse was once brimming with ball bearing bushing tycoons, and awash in chimney cap money. A few years later their football team won a national championship (did we have 50 states then?), scored a few Helms trophy's on the hardwood...and rolled steadily down hill since. If it wasn't for the Carmelo Anthony rental, we would all think of SU as the typewriter of college sports.

How can you save a school that small and isolated without saving the city in which it resides? How can you save that city without restoring the erie canal?

let's be realistic about what would happen to the ACC if they lost two of Clemson, FSU, VTech, Miami, whoever. they'd still be a power conference. sure they'd be locked in at number 5, but that's really no different than now, and they'll still have a seat at the table. some people here make it like the BE and ACC are both going to have their best 4 teams picked over and the remaining 20+ teams are going to be absorbed into CUSA never to compete again. that's not going to happen because there's about 40 Senators and their accompanying Congressmen that would have a fit about it. i just don't see how it's feasible for the top 4 conferences to decide to exclude the other 6 conferences from the championship picture.

Each realignment shift results in a bigger gap between the top conferences and everyone else. With that gap comes a bigger disparity in the money distribution.
a few years ago, the argument was that we could have a 7th AQ conference. Now it looks like the 5th and 6th could be joining the 7th on the outside looking in.
I'm surprised Congress hasn't addressed this yet...

 

[docsu]

Thinnly veiled expressions of butt-hurtness of being left behind

Like I said earlier, I really hope Notre Dame finally relents and joins a conference. It would seem to me that the ACC would be their best bet in terms of culture and location of its alumni base. If they do join I think Connecticut comes along for the ride.

I would feel bad if decades from now Uconn fans only had its five game win streak against Syracuse and its exhibition match against Oklahoma to look back on.

 

[auggie22]

Like I said earlier, I really hope Notre Dame finally relents and joins a conference. It would seem to me that the ACC would be their best bet in terms of culture and location of its alumni base. If they do join I think Connecticut comes along for the ride.

I would feel bad if decades from now Uconn fans only had its five game win streak against Syracuse and its exhibition match against Oklahoma to look back on.

Not butt-hurtedness at all. Just old fashioned rivalry hate. Of all of the things that you lose in the move (which was an entirely reasonable decision on SU's part, I would hope Uconn would have done the same), I suspect this, the sentiment from an opposing team of intense feeling is the one you will miss the most. Consider my post a parting gift, sincerely.

As for us, we still have NJU. And unlike a small private school from central NY, my hatred of everything NJ will endure.

 

[Uptop]

It also depends on whether the Big 12 goes with 8 or 9 conference games. I have a strong suspicion that the Playoff Structure will encourage aggressive non-conference scheduling, like it does in hoops, and TV loves inter-conference games. The ACC is locked into 9 games, but if the Big 12 goes with 8, but with a guarantee of quality OOC matchups, you could see the equivalent of an extra home game for FSU every 3 or 4 years by being in the Big 12.

Today from vetted southern football site "out kick the coverage." First 3 points of the fsu/big12 money trail have been discussed at length

"But here's the kicker that no one is talking about:

4. The redistributed playoff share will be much more substantial for Florida State in the Big 12.
Assume that the ACC would rarely have a team qualify for the playoff. And if it did qualify that money would be split 14 ways. Now assume that the Big 12 with Florida State -- and Miami or Clemson -- along with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Texas would qualify just about every year. Plus, and this is key, that the Big 12 would have a good chance of occasionally getting two teams.
That money would then be split just 12 ways.
We're talking about tremendous amounts of playoff money.
At a bare minimum a playoff will sell for $500 million a year.
Right now payouts for teams advancing to a BCS bowl are around $18 million.
Plan on that at least doubling to $36 million per team. (The real battle will be over how much a second team gets. Right now that's capped at a lower figure. Let's assume that's half.)
So advancing two teams to the playoff could end up worth around a bare minimum of $54 million to a conference. Divided twelve ways that's an additional $3-$5 million a year in playoff money.
At minimum.
It could be much higher than that.
So you're talking about $15 million more a year for Florida State in the Big 12.
Suddenly that exit fee doesn't seem like such a big deal, does it?
In light of the SEC -- Big 12 alliance today and these numbers above, I really think FSU is headed to the Big 12."

 

[Chin Diesel]

The money matters to FSU for many reasons.

One of the biggest is that it will be impossible for FSU to be relevant nationally if they can't compete with UF and the SEC schools that surround FSU. FSU is literally surrounded by UF, UGA, Alabama and Auburn. As the SEC schools get bigger and bigger paychecks they can figuratively squeeze the life out of FSU. Recruits literally have to drive out of state and past SEC schools to reach Tallahassee. There isn't a single prime recruiting area that FSU can go in to without going through the SEC.

With the contract the ACC signed, FSU is relegated to the sixth biggest school in the three state area around Tallahassee and they can't overcome that gap.

 

[Uptop]

The money matters to FSU for many reasons.

One of the biggest is that it will be impossible for FSU to be relevant nationally if they can't compete with UF and the SEC schools that surround FSU. FSU is literally surrounded by UF, UGA, Alabama and Auburn. As the SEC schools get bigger and bigger paychecks they can figuratively squeeze the life out of FSU. Recruits literally have to drive out of state and past SEC schools to reach Tallahassee. There isn't a single prime recruiting area that FSU can go in to without going through the SEC.

With the contract the ACC signed, FSU is relegated to the sixth biggest school in the three state area around Tallahassee and they can't overcome that gap.

Somebody told me that south georgia is where the best talent resides in georgia and that fsu because of its proximity is #1 in the pecking order for recruits there. Is it true? Regardless, I agree with your post.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Somebody told me that south georgia is where the best talent resides in georgia and that fsu because of its proximity is #1 in the pecking order for recruits there. Is it true? Regardless, I agree with your post.

Southern Georgia definintely has talent and FSU can go in to southern Georgia (look on a map and you'll see how close Tallahassee is to Ga). Georgia still has the lead for most in-state kids. FSU can't rely on plucking away some of the players from south Ga to stay competitive.

 

[RS9999X]

The Rose Bowl pays $22.3 millon per team. Presumably the Jerry Jones Bowl (SEC/B12) will pay the same.

The Orange Bowl will want a semi-final game instead of an ACC Champs v SEC #4 game that takes a huge paycut.