Texas AD Squashing FSU Talk?

[noeynox]

UT would not welcome another chair at the table asking for equality ---- the B12 (er, 10) will always have one fatal flaw in their design - UT. They want more, they want an unlevel playing field, and they will take their marbles and (threaten to) go home anytime someone else asks for more. They can push ISU, KS, and Baylor all over the place. FSU would be a threat to them w/in the conference, and they ain't bringing in any threats.

Why do you say this? The conference TV money is going to be distributed equally. They're getting additional money from their own network. Any school in the conference can create their own if they so choose. I think the Texas unbalance/inequality is overblown. Yes that money from their own network is significant, but FSU could probably make some good dollars off their own network as well. Something they could do in the Big 12, but not likely in the ACC.

 

[Chin Diesel]

UT would not welcome another chair at the table asking for equality ---- the B12 (er, 10) will always have one fatal flaw in their design - UT. They want more, they want an unlevel playing field, and they will take their marbles and (threaten to) go home anytime someone else asks for more. They can push ISU, KS, and Baylor all over the place. FSU would be a threat to them w/in the conference, and they ain't bringing in any threats.

FSU doesn't give a rat's ass if they are equal to Texas or not.


FSU has to remain as close as possible to UF and the Big12 keeps them closer to the Gators than the ACC. If FSU can't win the state of Florida the rest is irrelevant because FSU will be irrelevant.

 

[observer]

An honest question - why is it such a great deal for FSU to join the Big 12? They'll be trading the North Carolina schools as their masters for Texas as their master. They'll still have crappy football opponents who won't sell out their stadium. The only place they WANT to go is the SEC, and the SEC is too far downstream academically for their faculty and BOT to accept it; not that the SEC is champing at the bit to offer them, anyway.

Here is the schedule trade-off FSU would make according to the memo prepared by their President:

Given that the Texas schools are expected to play each other (the Big 12 is at least as Texas centered than the ACC is North Carolina centered), the most likely scenario has FSU playing Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia on a recurring basis and the other teams sporadically (and one more unnamed team has to join to allow the Big 12 to regain a championship game)...

Few believe that the above teams will fill our stadium with fans of these teams and so our lack of sales and ticket revenue would continue. We would lose the rivalry with University of Miami that does fill our stadium.

So joining the Big 12 would cost FSU ticket sales and all related revenues such as concessions and parking.

As far as the extra $2.9 million:

We realize that our sports teams can no longer travel by bus to most games -- the estimate is that the travel by plane required by FSU to be in the Big 12 appears to exceed the $2.9M difference in the contract -- actually giving us fewer dollars than we have now to be competitive with the Big 12 teams, who obviously do not have to travel as far.

So the Big 12 is just a terrific (note sacrasm) deal for FSU; worse home schedule with fewer tickets sold and the extra TV money does not even cover additional costs of travel.

Oh, and don't forget that the Big 12 does NOT share money equally so FSU would not get as much as TX.

Now, of course those who think that the Big 12 will add half of the ACC will counter and say FSU would wind up in an eastern division. Maybe, but doubt that the math works. First, teams 11 and 12 added to the Big 12 bring additional $$ as far as a conference championship game; teams 13 and above add nothing as far as a championship game. So teams 13 and above would need to bring as much value to the table as they take
away in TV revenues or 20 million per team. Are there six teams in the ACC that could be added to the Big 12 that are worth 20 million each? Doubtful.

Then there is the question of inventory as far as TV which is supposedly a good thing but there are only a limited number of time slots available for ESPN to show college football and having more games in the B12 may just mean that a better game is shown, say FSU-Texas, than an additional game. Query if the additional value of such games would add enough value for the B12 to conclude that adding teams is at least a wash.

If it is a wash then TX will not be happy because the new teams will all vote for equal revenue sharing and their take will actually go down. For that reason and with 10 teams and having no conference championship game to have to risk losing it is unlikely that TX is a big fan of much B12 expansion.

 

[WallStreetHusky]

The end game to all of this is that FSU is going to talk to the Big 12. They are both going to exchange numbers, go on a few dates (without telling anyone), and see if there is something that benefits each other.

I have never said they will get married, but regardless of what is put out in public by FSU, Texas or the Big 12, too much has already happened for each party not to reach out to the other and compare the financial ramifications of a FSU going to the Big 12. They each have their masters to answer to, it is called a fiduciary duty. The train has left the station, its too late, they each now HAVE to talk to each other, if for no other reason to save the Boards from litigation.

And I know this from having slept at a Holiday Inn last night.....well, not really, lets just say I am intimately familiar with the responsibilities that come with sitting on boards.......if the number about going to the B12 is in the black, they go, if it is red, they stay, but make no mistake, they are going to talk.

 

[Dann]

it was great when you'd get a home and home in bball. unfortunately everything's moving in the wrong direction. at this point my hope is 4 16 team conferences with each being split into two 8 team conferences. it would almost be like having 8 8 team regional conferences where two of them play a championship game every year. at 12 it's just annoying.

dream bigger. 4 18 team conf's. each division can have 9 in a region. thats 8 fball games and a h/w round robin in bball. for the bcs playoff. make it a 8 team one. each division winner from each conf gets a bid. that gets rid of ccg's and forces byu/nd etc....

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Observer is in full-fledged jealous ex-Girlfriend mode.

As for the FSU President's memo, Warchant has shredded his logic better than I could, but let me make a few observations on schedule.

Outside of VTech, FSU and Clemson, none of the ACC teams are consistently ranked. Assume that FSU and Clemson go to the Big 12. FSU will have multiple ranked opponents on its conference schedule. Lets assume the road home split as follows:

Year 1: H) Kstate, WVU, Iowa State, TCU; R) Clemson, KU, Okie Lite, Texas

Year 2: H) Clemson, KU, TTU, Baylor; R) KState, WVU, ISU, Oklahoma

Year 3: H) KState, WVU, ISU, Oklahoma; R) Clemson, KU, TTU, Baylor

Year 4: H) Clemson, KU, Okie Lite, Texas; R) KState, WVU, ISU, TCU

Is there a single season there where FSU's home schedule wouldn't blow away anything the ACC could give them? The worst one would be Year 2, with TTU and KU both home. On the other hand, the other 3 years would more than make up for it with 2-3 ranked teams on the home schedule every season.

If you are looking to sell tickets, it is no contest between the Big 12 and ACC.

 

[observer]

Observer is in full-fledged jealous ex-Girlfriend mode.

As for the FSU President's memo, Warchant has shredded his logic better than I could, but let me make a few observations on schedule.

Outside of VTech, FSU and Clemson, none of the ACC teams are consistently ranked. Assume that FSU and Clemson go to the Big 12. FSU will have multiple ranked opponents on its conference schedule. Lets assume the road home split as follows:

Year 1: H) Kstate, WVU, Iowa State, TCU; R) Clemson, KU, Okie Lite, Texas

Year 2: H) Clemson, KU, TTU, Baylor; R) KState, WVU, ISU, Oklahoma

Year 3: H) KState, WVU, ISU, Oklahoma; R) Clemson, KU, TTU, Baylor

Year 4: H) Clemson, KU, Okie Lite, Texas; R) KState, WVU, ISU, TCU

Is there a single season there where FSU's home schedule wouldn't blow away anything the ACC could give them? The worst one would be Year 2, with TTU and KU both home. On the other hand, the other 3 years would more than make up for it with 2-3 ranked teams on the home schedule every season.

If you are looking to sell tickets, it is no contest between the Big 12 and ACC.

Well Nelson you better gift wrap this post and send it off immediately to the Prez of FSU who obviously does not have a clue despite the fact that he is head of a major university, has advanced degrees up the wazoo and can call on people like his AD and others for advice.

Or who should we believe on FSU scheduling matters, the President of FSU or Nelson?

Hm, let me ponder that and get back to you.

 

[UConnDan97]

Who the heck started this idiotic post about FSU and Texas that has us bashing our own Husky heads in?!? That guy was a......oh, wait.....oops!

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Well Nelson you better gift wrap this post and send it off immediately to the Prez of FSU who obviously does not have a clue despite the fact that he is head of a major university, has advanced degrees up the wazoo and can call on people like his AD and others for advice.

Or who should we believe on FSU scheduling matters, the President of FSU or Nelson?

Hm, let me ponder that and get back to you.

Funny how no one else affiliated with FSU's program seems to agree with Barron.

 

[observer]

Funny how no one else affiliated with FSU's program seems to agree with Barron.

You mean 'no one' as in internet posters?

Bet Barron has already wet his pants several times over that.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You mean 'no one' as in internet posters?

Bet Barron has already wet his pants several times over that.

What about Barron's boss? Haggard blasted the ACC, then said he may have the Tier 3 wrong, and blasted the ACC again.

 

[observer]

What about Barron's boss? Haggard blasted the ACC, then said he may have the Tier 3 wrong, and blasted the ACC again.

Well as usual, kinda wrong on the details. Haggard's last statement said that FSU should look at all options. That is nothing more than stating the obvious. Any board is always required to look at all options for the entity that they run.

Sorry no cigar.

 

[RS9999X]

FSU is living in the Bobby Bowden era. Barron is trying to escape it.

FSU doesn't dominate Florida Ratings or Facilities or Attendance or onfield Performance. This is the Florida team that didn't have Tim Tebow and Tebow-mania. That was the other Florida. This is the team that fell into disrepair over the last 12 years and is always over-rated in the pre-season polls. This is a team that gets decent national ratings when playing a top shelf team early in the season when they are over ranked and looking like contenders.

If they were musicians they'd be Tom Waits singing in a back alley or Marlon Brando doing his "I coulda been a Contender" schtick from 'On the Waterfront'. The fact is they aren't that good or popular any more.

They are to Southern Football what SU and BC are to Northern Football. Old rusted hulks. Even the rusted maroon brown color of the Seminole uniforms is perfect

 

[The Funster]

Well as usual, kinda wrong on the details. Haggard's last statement said that FSU should look at all options. That is nothing more than stating the obvious. Any board is always required to look at all options for the entity that they run.

Sorry no cigar.

Haggard came across as a doddering old fool. That was his parting shot before he rides off into the sunset.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The good news in this is that both publicly and in backchannel reports, both Texas and Oklahoma are placing the bar pretty high for expansion. I think it becomes less likely Louisville or Cincinnati go to the Big 12 if FSU and Clemson stay in the ACC for some reason.

good point. this might actually stabilize things a bit.

 

[IthacaMatt]

FSU is living in the Bobby Bowden era. Barron is trying to escape it.

FSU doesn't dominate Florida Ratings or Facilities or Attendance or onfield Performance. This is the Florida team that didn't have Tim Tebow and Tebow-mania. That was the other Florida. This is the team that fell into disrepair over the last 12 years and is always over-rated in the pre-season polls. This is a team that gets decent national ratings when playing a top shelf team early in the season when they are over ranked and looking like contenders.

If they were musicians they'd be Tom Waits singing in a back alley or Marlon Brando doing his "I coulda been a Contender" schtick from 'On the Waterfront'. The fact is they aren't that good or popular any more.

They are to Southern Football what SU and BC are to Northern Football. Old rusted hulks. Even the rusted maroon brown color of the Seminole uniforms is perfect

Yes, but they are where most of the top recruits are, and they are a state school, which Miami is not.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Observer is in full-fledged jealous ex-Girlfriend mode.

As for the FSU President's memo, Warchant has shredded his logic better than I could, but let me make a few observations on schedule.

Outside of VTech, FSU and Clemson, none of the ACC teams are consistently ranked. Assume that FSU and Clemson go to the Big 12. FSU will have multiple ranked opponents on its conference schedule. Lets assume the road home split as follows:

Year 1: H) Kstate, WVU, Iowa State, TCU; R) Clemson, KU, Okie Lite, Texas

Year 2: H) Clemson, KU, TTU, Baylor; R) KState, WVU, ISU, Oklahoma

Year 3: H) KState, WVU, ISU, Oklahoma; R) Clemson, KU, TTU, Baylor

Year 4: H) Clemson, KU, Okie Lite, Texas; R) KState, WVU, ISU, TCU

Is there a single season there where FSU's home schedule wouldn't blow away anything the ACC could give them? The worst one would be Year 2, with TTU and KU both home. On the other hand, the other 3 years would more than make up for it with 2-3 ranked teams on the home schedule every season.

If you are looking to sell tickets, it is no contest between the Big 12 and ACC.

It's not about rankings, it's about whether your fans care about playing those teams. That's what sells tickets. Not that Syracuse has been tearing it up, but our fans think a lot less of playing Cincinnati, South Florida and UConn in football (no offense; it's just not anywhere close to the hoops relationship, from our perspective), than it was playing Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College. We HATED Va Tech.

Everybody forgets that we played them basically even while they were still in the Big East, and we won 3 straight conference titles against those teams and West Virginia and Pitt when they were still pretty good. That was just a much better conference. We all feel that the Big East has sucked for years, and the fact that the opponents are so pedestrian and lacking in history and national prominence just has killed our fan base.

We used to play Oklahoma, Nebraska, Colorado, Michigan, Tennessee, Ohio State, Georgia Tech - plus the old Big East schedule, and still win about 9 games a year, and play about .500 in those national games. Nobody else who remains in the conference - and certainly none of the teams who have been winning it lately, have come CLOSE to the quality of national wins we got for this conference.

I hope you guys go into Michigan and win next year. We did. We kicked their asses, on national TV, when they had Tom Brady as their QB. That's what makes football programs, not beating sack-of- teams like populate this conference now. And those teams don't have the courage to schedule up against big teams frequently enough, to gain the conference the respect it seeks on the national stage. Part of the reason Big East football is not respected is because for the most part, since 2003, we are the only team who scheduled national opponents on a regular basis, and unfortunately, we sucked for a number of years.

Sorry for the digression, but getting back to the original point, the reason Fla State fans won't be happy in the Big 12 is because they have no history with those schools, and forgive me, but the teams they are likely to be grouped with have less fan appeal than the opponents that could be put together within the ACC. In part, the ACC has screwed up its division format, and that has undermined existing natural rivalries. I'll bet that if Florida State could choose its division mates in the ACC, they'd have a better chance of selling more tickets (no Wake, BC, NC State - give them Clemson, Miami, Ga Tech every year).

 

[Dann]

It's not about rankings, it's about whether your fans care about playing those teams. That's what sells tickets. Not that Syracuse has been tearing it up, but our fans think a lot less of playing Cincinnati, South Florida and UConn in football (no offense; it's just not anywhere close to the hoops relationship, from our perspective), than it was playing Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College. We HATED Va Tech.

Everybody forgets that we played them basically even while they were still in the Big East, and we won 3 straight conference titles against those teams and West Virginia and Pitt when they were still pretty good. That was just a much better conference. We all feel that the Big East has sucked for years, and the fact that the opponents are so pedestrian and lacking in history and national prominence just has killed our fan base.

We used to play Oklahoma, Nebraska, Colorado, Michigan, Tennessee, Ohio State, Georgia Tech - plus the old Big East schedule, and still win about 9 games a year, and play about .500 in those national games. Nobody else who remains in the conference - and certainly none of the teams who have been winning it lately, have come CLOSE to the quality of national wins we got for this conference.

I hope you guys go into Michigan and win next year. We did. We kicked their asses, on national TV, when they had Tom Brady as their QB. That's what makes football programs, not beating sack-of-**** teams like populate this conference now. And those teams don't have the courage to schedule up against big teams frequently enough, to gain the conference the respect it seeks on the national stage. Part of the reason Big East football is not respected is because for the most part, since 2003, we are the only team who scheduled national opponents on a regular basis, and unfortunately, we sucked for a number of years.

Sorry for the digression, but getting back to the original point, the reason Fla State fans won't be happy in the Big 12 is because they have no history with those schools, and forgive me, but the teams they are likely to be grouped with have less fan appeal than the opponents that could be put together within the ACC. In part, the ACC has screwed up its division format, and that has undermined existing natural rivalries. I'll bet that if Florida State could choose its division mates in the ACC, they'd have a better chance of selling more tickets (no Wake, BC, NC State - give them Clemson, Miami, Ga Tech every year).

michigan comes to uconn next year. we get those schools to come to us. then tenn next a year later. pretty impressive for a school thats not worth crap acording to u. have fun playing usc on the josie shore next year.

 

[RS9999X]

We used to play Oklahoma, Nebraska, Colorado, Michigan, Tennessee, Ohio State, Georgia Tech - plus the old Big East schedule, and still win about 9 games a year, and play about .500 in those national games. Nobody else who remains in the conference - and certainly none of the teams who have been winning it lately, have come CLOSE to the quality of national wins we got for this conference.

Part of the reason Big East football is not respected is because for the most part, since 2003, we are the only team who scheduled national opponents on a regular basis, and unfortunately, we sucked for a number of years.

Sorry for the digression

Here's my digression: Syracuse from 1968-1986: 91-115-2 only 2 seasons with 7 wins and 2 bowls going 1-1 in bottom tier bowls. This decade, the last 12 years, they are a deplorable 45-73.

What you are talking about is a golden era of 13 years out of the last 44 with seven 9 wins seasons or better from 1987-1999.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Here's my digression: Syracuse from 1968-1986: 91-115-2 only 2 seasons with 7 wins and 2 bowls going 1-1 in bottom tier bowls. This decade, the last 12 years, they are a deplorable 45-73.

What you are talking about is a golden era of 13 years out of the last 44 with seven 9 wins seasons or better from 1987-1999.

It is funny that the Syracuse fan blames their mediocre attendance on Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida when Syracuse has sucked for years. All 3 schools have cracked the Top 5 since they joined the Big East. Syracuse has not been ranked during that period. Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida should be mad at Syracuse, not the other way around.

It's worth noting that in the 7 years that BCU has been in the ACC, the average attendance for conference home games has only exceeded the average attendance for conference home games of their last season in the Big East ONCE. And the home slate in 2004? Rutgers, UConn and Syracuse.

 

[SAMCRO]

It is funny that the Syracuse fan blames their mediocre attendance on Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida when Syracuse has sucked for years. All 3 schools have cracked the Top 5 since they joined the Big East. Syracuse has not been ranked during that period. Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida should be mad at Syracuse, not the other way around.

It's worth noting that in the 7 years that BCU has been in the ACC, the average attendance for conference home games has only exceeded the average attendance for conference home games of their last season in the Big East ONCE. And the home slate in 2004? Rutgers, UConn and Syracuse.

Also funny to hear SU fans refer to other programs as "sack of **** teams", when reality is Cuse has been the sack of **** team for the past 8 years (and it's on the field success is not looking much brighter in the coming years).

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm sick and tired of these short-term thinking whiners. The ACC has a perfectly acceptable football lineup. The only reason it seems weak is that schools like Florida State have under performed. So has Miami, and Clemson, and North Carolina. Virgina Tech hasn't been quite as good either. Boston Collge is in total free-fall from what was a legitimately competitive program. None of this is permanent. None of it is irreversable. If Kansas State and the Tampa Rays can become consistent winners, anyone can. For Florida State to move on based on some perception of the grass being greener is stupid. They have an improving basketball program and a great baseball program. The ACC is the better fit by far.

 

[docsu]

I'm sick and tired of these short-term thinking whiners. The ACC has a perfectly acceptable football lineup. The only reason it seems weak is that schools like Florida State have under performed. So has Miami, and Clemson, and North Carolina. Virgina Tech hasn't been quite as good either. Boston Collge is in total free-fall from what was a legitimately competitive program. None of this is permanent. None of it is irreversable. If Kansas State and the Tampa Rays can become consistent winners, anyone can. For Florida State to move on based on some perception of the grass being greener is stupid. They have an improving basketball program and a great baseball program. The ACC is the better fit by far.

Yep. Switching conferences is a 50 year decsion. It's not something you do for a TV contract or the home schedule going into the next couple years.

But the interenet treats it like NFL free agency.

 

[freescooter]

Funny thing about Syracuse and their "national schedule" is that it doesn't impress anyone if you get your head handed to you every time. Last time Penn State went up to the dome they came away with a 42 point victory that wasn't as close as the score indicated. In 2007 they brought in Washington and Illinois and lost by 30 and 21 respectively and went out to Iowa and lost by 35...You can say all you want about playing a national schedule, but it is far worse for the conference to have its team play mid-level "name" teams and have their heads handed to them. Think Syracuse did the Big East Name much good when getting smacked around by USC last fall in LA? Of course that loss might have been better than the 7 point win over a Rhode Island team that is downgrading its football to a lower level of 1AA...Bottom line I suspect is that Syracuse doesn't really have many Syracuse fans anymore. They have people who come to see which name opponent is going to smack the Orange around next...Most of the "national" teams that Syracuse wants to play view the Orange like we see Buffalo...a 1A opponent that should be an automatic W. Been that way for a decade.

 

[Hoophound]

It isn't a 50 year decision anymore, times have changed. FSU is a big enough brand that they will always have a good home. They should take the money and run. If they ever need to move again, so be it.

The big players have nothing to worry about. Honestly, I'd be most concerned as a private institution like BC, Cuse, Wake etc. With the cost of an education spiraling out of control and the state U's running this whole game, I don't see how private schools will be able to keep up. Further, I'm not sure smaller state U's in the north like UConn will be willing to play this game for many years to come either. The southern schools just spend, spend, spend on this stuff and they take it much more seriously.

My point is, maybe in the end, the biggest of the big boys should play on the biggest stage and the rest should go in another direction. Sad, but true.