Texas AD Squashing FSU Talk?

[nelsonmuntz]

Observer is in full-fledged jealous ex-Girlfriend mode.

As for the FSU President's memo, Warchant has shredded his logic better than I could, but let me make a few observations on schedule.

Outside of VTech, FSU and Clemson, none of the ACC teams are consistently ranked. Assume that FSU and Clemson go to the Big 12. FSU will have multiple ranked opponents on its conference schedule. Lets assume the road home split as follows:

Year 1: H) Kstate, WVU, Iowa State, TCU; R) Clemson, KU, Okie Lite, Texas

Year 2: H) Clemson, KU, TTU, Baylor; R) KState, WVU, ISU, Oklahoma

Year 3: H) KState, WVU, ISU, Oklahoma; R) Clemson, KU, TTU, Baylor

Year 4: H) Clemson, KU, Okie Lite, Texas; R) KState, WVU, ISU, TCU

Is there a single season there where FSU's home schedule wouldn't blow away anything the ACC could give them? The worst one would be Year 2, with TTU and KU both home. On the other hand, the other 3 years would more than make up for it with 2-3 ranked teams on the home schedule every season.

If you are looking to sell tickets, it is no contest between the Big 12 and ACC.

 

[observer]

Observer is in full-fledged jealous ex-Girlfriend mode.

As for the FSU President's memo, Warchant has shredded his logic better than I could, but let me make a few observations on schedule.

Outside of VTech, FSU and Clemson, none of the ACC teams are consistently ranked. Assume that FSU and Clemson go to the Big 12. FSU will have multiple ranked opponents on its conference schedule. Lets assume the road home split as follows:

Year 1: H) Kstate, WVU, Iowa State, TCU; R) Clemson, KU, Okie Lite, Texas

Year 2: H) Clemson, KU, TTU, Baylor; R) KState, WVU, ISU, Oklahoma

Year 3: H) KState, WVU, ISU, Oklahoma; R) Clemson, KU, TTU, Baylor

Year 4: H) Clemson, KU, Okie Lite, Texas; R) KState, WVU, ISU, TCU

Is there a single season there where FSU's home schedule wouldn't blow away anything the ACC could give them? The worst one would be Year 2, with TTU and KU both home. On the other hand, the other 3 years would more than make up for it with 2-3 ranked teams on the home schedule every season.

If you are looking to sell tickets, it is no contest between the Big 12 and ACC.

Well Nelson you better gift wrap this post and send it off immediately to the Prez of FSU who obviously does not have a clue despite the fact that he is head of a major university, has advanced degrees up the wazoo and can call on people like his AD and others for advice.

Or who should we believe on FSU scheduling matters, the President of FSU or Nelson?

Hm, let me ponder that and get back to you.

 

[UConnDan97]

Who the heck started this idiotic post about FSU and Texas that has us bashing our own Husky heads in?!? That guy was a......oh, wait.....oops!

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Well Nelson you better gift wrap this post and send it off immediately to the Prez of FSU who obviously does not have a clue despite the fact that he is head of a major university, has advanced degrees up the wazoo and can call on people like his AD and others for advice.

Or who should we believe on FSU scheduling matters, the President of FSU or Nelson?

Hm, let me ponder that and get back to you.

Funny how no one else affiliated with FSU's program seems to agree with Barron.

 

[observer]

Funny how no one else affiliated with FSU's program seems to agree with Barron.

You mean 'no one' as in internet posters?

Bet Barron has already wet his pants several times over that.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You mean 'no one' as in internet posters?

Bet Barron has already wet his pants several times over that.

What about Barron's boss? Haggard blasted the ACC, then said he may have the Tier 3 wrong, and blasted the ACC again.

 

[observer]

What about Barron's boss? Haggard blasted the ACC, then said he may have the Tier 3 wrong, and blasted the ACC again.

Well as usual, kinda wrong on the details. Haggard's last statement said that FSU should look at all options. That is nothing more than stating the obvious. Any board is always required to look at all options for the entity that they run.

Sorry no cigar.

 

[RS9999X]

FSU is living in the Bobby Bowden era. Barron is trying to escape it.

FSU doesn't dominate Florida Ratings or Facilities or Attendance or onfield Performance. This is the Florida team that didn't have Tim Tebow and Tebow-mania. That was the other Florida. This is the team that fell into disrepair over the last 12 years and is always over-rated in the pre-season polls. This is a team that gets decent national ratings when playing a top shelf team early in the season when they are over ranked and looking like contenders.

If they were musicians they'd be Tom Waits singing in a back alley or Marlon Brando doing his "I coulda been a Contender" schtick from 'On the Waterfront'. The fact is they aren't that good or popular any more.

They are to Southern Football what SU and BC are to Northern Football. Old rusted hulks. Even the rusted maroon brown color of the Seminole uniforms is perfect

 

[The Funster]

Well as usual, kinda wrong on the details. Haggard's last statement said that FSU should look at all options. That is nothing more than stating the obvious. Any board is always required to look at all options for the entity that they run.

Sorry no cigar.

Haggard came across as a doddering old fool. That was his parting shot before he rides off into the sunset.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The good news in this is that both publicly and in backchannel reports, both Texas and Oklahoma are placing the bar pretty high for expansion. I think it becomes less likely Louisville or Cincinnati go to the Big 12 if FSU and Clemson stay in the ACC for some reason.

good point. this might actually stabilize things a bit.

 

[IthacaMatt]

FSU is living in the Bobby Bowden era. Barron is trying to escape it.

FSU doesn't dominate Florida Ratings or Facilities or Attendance or onfield Performance. This is the Florida team that didn't have Tim Tebow and Tebow-mania. That was the other Florida. This is the team that fell into disrepair over the last 12 years and is always over-rated in the pre-season polls. This is a team that gets decent national ratings when playing a top shelf team early in the season when they are over ranked and looking like contenders.

If they were musicians they'd be Tom Waits singing in a back alley or Marlon Brando doing his "I coulda been a Contender" schtick from 'On the Waterfront'. The fact is they aren't that good or popular any more.

They are to Southern Football what SU and BC are to Northern Football. Old rusted hulks. Even the rusted maroon brown color of the Seminole uniforms is perfect

Yes, but they are where most of the top recruits are, and they are a state school, which Miami is not.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Observer is in full-fledged jealous ex-Girlfriend mode.

As for the FSU President's memo, Warchant has shredded his logic better than I could, but let me make a few observations on schedule.

Outside of VTech, FSU and Clemson, none of the ACC teams are consistently ranked. Assume that FSU and Clemson go to the Big 12. FSU will have multiple ranked opponents on its conference schedule. Lets assume the road home split as follows:

Year 1: H) Kstate, WVU, Iowa State, TCU; R) Clemson, KU, Okie Lite, Texas

Year 2: H) Clemson, KU, TTU, Baylor; R) KState, WVU, ISU, Oklahoma

Year 3: H) KState, WVU, ISU, Oklahoma; R) Clemson, KU, TTU, Baylor

Year 4: H) Clemson, KU, Okie Lite, Texas; R) KState, WVU, ISU, TCU

Is there a single season there where FSU's home schedule wouldn't blow away anything the ACC could give them? The worst one would be Year 2, with TTU and KU both home. On the other hand, the other 3 years would more than make up for it with 2-3 ranked teams on the home schedule every season.

If you are looking to sell tickets, it is no contest between the Big 12 and ACC.

It's not about rankings, it's about whether your fans care about playing those teams. That's what sells tickets. Not that Syracuse has been tearing it up, but our fans think a lot less of playing Cincinnati, South Florida and UConn in football (no offense; it's just not anywhere close to the hoops relationship, from our perspective), than it was playing Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College. We HATED Va Tech.

Everybody forgets that we played them basically even while they were still in the Big East, and we won 3 straight conference titles against those teams and West Virginia and Pitt when they were still pretty good. That was just a much better conference. We all feel that the Big East has sucked for years, and the fact that the opponents are so pedestrian and lacking in history and national prominence just has killed our fan base.

We used to play Oklahoma, Nebraska, Colorado, Michigan, Tennessee, Ohio State, Georgia Tech - plus the old Big East schedule, and still win about 9 games a year, and play about .500 in those national games. Nobody else who remains in the conference - and certainly none of the teams who have been winning it lately, have come CLOSE to the quality of national wins we got for this conference.

I hope you guys go into Michigan and win next year. We did. We kicked their asses, on national TV, when they had Tom Brady as their QB. That's what makes football programs, not beating sack-of-shit teams like populate this conference now. And those teams don't have the courage to schedule up against big teams frequently enough, to gain the conference the respect it seeks on the national stage. Part of the reason Big East football is not respected is because for the most part, since 2003, we are the only team who scheduled national opponents on a regular basis, and unfortunately, we sucked for a number of years.

Sorry for the digression, but getting back to the original point, the reason Fla State fans won't be happy in the Big 12 is because they have no history with those schools, and forgive me, but the teams they are likely to be grouped with have less fan appeal than the opponents that could be put together within the ACC. In part, the ACC has screwed up its division format, and that has undermined existing natural rivalries. I'll bet that if Florida State could choose its division mates in the ACC, they'd have a better chance of selling more tickets (no Wake, BC, NC State - give them Clemson, Miami, Ga Tech every year).

 

[Dann]

It's not about rankings, it's about whether your fans care about playing those teams. That's what sells tickets. Not that Syracuse has been tearing it up, but our fans think a lot less of playing Cincinnati, South Florida and UConn in football (no offense; it's just not anywhere close to the hoops relationship, from our perspective), than it was playing Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College. We HATED Va Tech.

Everybody forgets that we played them basically even while they were still in the Big East, and we won 3 straight conference titles against those teams and West Virginia and Pitt when they were still pretty good. That was just a much better conference. We all feel that the Big East has sucked for years, and the fact that the opponents are so pedestrian and lacking in history and national prominence just has killed our fan base.

We used to play Oklahoma, Nebraska, Colorado, Michigan, Tennessee, Ohio State, Georgia Tech - plus the old Big East schedule, and still win about 9 games a year, and play about .500 in those national games. Nobody else who remains in the conference - and certainly none of the teams who have been winning it lately, have come CLOSE to the quality of national wins we got for this conference.

I hope you guys go into Michigan and win next year. We did. We kicked their asses, on national TV, when they had Tom Brady as their QB. That's what makes football programs, not beating sack-of-**** teams like populate this conference now. And those teams don't have the courage to schedule up against big teams frequently enough, to gain the conference the respect it seeks on the national stage. Part of the reason Big East football is not respected is because for the most part, since 2003, we are the only team who scheduled national opponents on a regular basis, and unfortunately, we sucked for a number of years.

Sorry for the digression, but getting back to the original point, the reason Fla State fans won't be happy in the Big 12 is because they have no history with those schools, and forgive me, but the teams they are likely to be grouped with have less fan appeal than the opponents that could be put together within the ACC. In part, the ACC has screwed up its division format, and that has undermined existing natural rivalries. I'll bet that if Florida State could choose its division mates in the ACC, they'd have a better chance of selling more tickets (no Wake, BC, NC State - give them Clemson, Miami, Ga Tech every year).

michigan comes to uconn next year. we get those schools to come to us. then tenn next a year later. pretty impressive for a school thats not worth crap acording to u. have fun playing usc on the josie shore next year.

 

[RS9999X]

We used to play Oklahoma, Nebraska, Colorado, Michigan, Tennessee, Ohio State, Georgia Tech - plus the old Big East schedule, and still win about 9 games a year, and play about .500 in those national games. Nobody else who remains in the conference - and certainly none of the teams who have been winning it lately, have come CLOSE to the quality of national wins we got for this conference.

Part of the reason Big East football is not respected is because for the most part, since 2003, we are the only team who scheduled national opponents on a regular basis, and unfortunately, we sucked for a number of years.

Sorry for the digression

Here's my digression: Syracuse from 1968-1986: 91-115-2 only 2 seasons with 7 wins and 2 bowls going 1-1 in bottom tier bowls. This decade, the last 12 years, they are a deplorable 45-73.

What you are talking about is a golden era of 13 years out of the last 44 with seven 9 wins seasons or better from 1987-1999.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Here's my digression: Syracuse from 1968-1986: 91-115-2 only 2 seasons with 7 wins and 2 bowls going 1-1 in bottom tier bowls. This decade, the last 12 years, they are a deplorable 45-73.

What you are talking about is a golden era of 13 years out of the last 44 with seven 9 wins seasons or better from 1987-1999.

It is funny that the Syracuse fan blames their mediocre attendance on Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida when Syracuse has sucked for years. All 3 schools have cracked the Top 5 since they joined the Big East. Syracuse has not been ranked during that period. Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida should be mad at Syracuse, not the other way around.

It's worth noting that in the 7 years that BCU has been in the ACC, the average attendance for conference home games has only exceeded the average attendance for conference home games of their last season in the Big East ONCE. And the home slate in 2004? Rutgers, UConn and Syracuse.

 

[SAMCRO]

It is funny that the Syracuse fan blames their mediocre attendance on Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida when Syracuse has sucked for years. All 3 schools have cracked the Top 5 since they joined the Big East. Syracuse has not been ranked during that period. Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida should be mad at Syracuse, not the other way around.

It's worth noting that in the 7 years that BCU has been in the ACC, the average attendance for conference home games has only exceeded the average attendance for conference home games of their last season in the Big East ONCE. And the home slate in 2004? Rutgers, UConn and Syracuse.

Also funny to hear SU fans refer to other programs as "sack of **** teams", when reality is Cuse has been the sack of **** team for the past 8 years (and it's on the field success is not looking much brighter in the coming years).

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm sick and tired of these short-term thinking whiners. The ACC has a perfectly acceptable football lineup. The only reason it seems weak is that schools like Florida State have under performed. So has Miami, and Clemson, and North Carolina. Virgina Tech hasn't been quite as good either. Boston Collge is in total free-fall from what was a legitimately competitive program. None of this is permanent. None of it is irreversable. If Kansas State and the Tampa Rays can become consistent winners, anyone can. For Florida State to move on based on some perception of the grass being greener is stupid. They have an improving basketball program and a great baseball program. The ACC is the better fit by far.

 

[docsu]

I'm sick and tired of these short-term thinking whiners. The ACC has a perfectly acceptable football lineup. The only reason it seems weak is that schools like Florida State have under performed. So has Miami, and Clemson, and North Carolina. Virgina Tech hasn't been quite as good either. Boston Collge is in total free-fall from what was a legitimately competitive program. None of this is permanent. None of it is irreversable. If Kansas State and the Tampa Rays can become consistent winners, anyone can. For Florida State to move on based on some perception of the grass being greener is stupid. They have an improving basketball program and a great baseball program. The ACC is the better fit by far.

Yep. Switching conferences is a 50 year decsion. It's not something you do for a TV contract or the home schedule going into the next couple years.

But the interenet treats it like NFL free agency.

 

[freescooter]

Funny thing about Syracuse and their "national schedule" is that it doesn't impress anyone if you get your head handed to you every time. Last time Penn State went up to the dome they came away with a 42 point victory that wasn't as close as the score indicated. In 2007 they brought in Washington and Illinois and lost by 30 and 21 respectively and went out to Iowa and lost by 35...You can say all you want about playing a national schedule, but it is far worse for the conference to have its team play mid-level "name" teams and have their heads handed to them. Think Syracuse did the Big East Name much good when getting smacked around by USC last fall in LA? Of course that loss might have been better than the 7 point win over a Rhode Island team that is downgrading its football to a lower level of 1AA...Bottom line I suspect is that Syracuse doesn't really have many Syracuse fans anymore. They have people who come to see which name opponent is going to smack the Orange around next...Most of the "national" teams that Syracuse wants to play view the Orange like we see Buffalo...a 1A opponent that should be an automatic W. Been that way for a decade.

 

[Hoophound]

It isn't a 50 year decision anymore, times have changed. FSU is a big enough brand that they will always have a good home. They should take the money and run. If they ever need to move again, so be it.

The big players have nothing to worry about. Honestly, I'd be most concerned as a private institution like BC, Cuse, Wake etc. With the cost of an education spiraling out of control and the state U's running this whole game, I don't see how private schools will be able to keep up. Further, I'm not sure smaller state U's in the north like UConn will be willing to play this game for many years to come either. The southern schools just spend, spend, spend on this stuff and they take it much more seriously.

My point is, maybe in the end, the biggest of the big boys should play on the biggest stage and the rest should go in another direction. Sad, but true.

 

[businesslawyer]

Here's my digression: Syracuse from 1968-1986: 91-115-2 only 2 seasons with 7 wins and 2 bowls going 1-1 in bottom tier bowls. This decade, the last 12 years, they are a deplorable 45-73.

What you are talking about is a golden era of 13 years out of the last 44 with seven 9 wins seasons or better from 1987-1999.

Thank you.

 

[docsu]

It isn't a 50 year decision anymore, times have changed. FSU is a big enough brand that they will always have a good home. They should take the money and run. If they ever need to move again, so be it.

No that's how the internet sees it. The moves made thusfar had more thought process than just the next TV contract.

 

[freescooter]

Syracuse has an interesting view of their program...just to give it a little perspective, over the last 25 games with Penn State, the mighty Orange have managed to put together an impressive 3 wins...and the games have rarely been close. If they are the "other" national power in the northeast over the years, as they seem to see themselves, they are clearly far behind the leader...

 

[ZooCougar]

The ACC is the best fit. Better than the Big 10 by a mile. The Big 10 is a classy conference, but more of our alums are on the Atlantic seaboard than the midwest. If they added Rutgers and UConn to the conference then really the only conference opponent that we would be without that we actually gave a crap about is WVU, (although I would kind of miss Cincy).

I would rather travel to Charlottesville in the fall than Bloomington. When people think of joining the Big 10, they think of Michigan, Ohio State or even Wisconsin. But they also forget about dogs like Illinois, Michigan State, Indiana and let's face it, nobody is going to get in a car and road trip it to Madison, Iowa City, and Minneapolis.

In the ACC, BCU, SU, Pitt, RU (potentially), Maryland, UVA and VT are all within a 9-10 hour drive. Well, VT is probably a little beyond 10 hrs..

 

[The Funster]

No that's how the internet sees it. The moves made thusfar had more thought process than just the next TV contract.

Did they have more thought? How many traditional rivalries have gone by the wayside? How will new rivalries be created when geography gets in the way? What new rivalries has BC created and if they have none, why do you think SU will be able to create them?

This realignment stinks. I'd say to you that they were incredibly short sighted. I'm not saying this just because UConn is currently on the outside looking in, either. If UConn and Syracuse were joining the ACC I would feel the same way. I've said it right along, 20 years from now people will look back on this period and ask, "What the hell were they thinking?"

I'm not trying to be a (well, except to IthacaMatt and the SU fans who are laughing at our situation) but if FSU and Clemson feel slighted by Tobacco Road and BC is looking to be in a freefall what makes you think that SU will flourish in the ACC? Seriously, the best thing for SU IS UConn and Rutgers being asked to join. At least then you would have a 5 team northern block (6 including an unhappy MD) and if you included Clemson and FSU you'd have at least 50% of the teams that could vote against Tobacco Road and put pressure on Tobacco Road for equity in scheduling and future negotiating.

Seriously, if SU, Pitt and BC wanted to play it smart, they'd be agressively advocating for UConn and Rutgers to get invites. It would be win/win.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Also funny to hear SU fans refer to other programs as "sack of **** teams", when reality is Cuse has been the sack of **** team for the past 8 years (and it's on the field success is not looking much brighter in the coming years).

Funny, but for being such a crappy team, we're having ANOTHER of our former players put into the college hall of fame this year. I believe we have 5th or 6th most of all football programs.

 

[huskymedic]

... My point is, maybe in the end, the biggest of the big boys should play on the biggest stage and the rest should go in another direction. Sad, but true.

I find that hard to disagree with...

 

[gioff23]

Funny, but for being such a crappy team, we're having ANOTHER of our former players put into the college hall of fame this year. I believe we have 5th or 6th most of all football programs.

Almost 5th or 6th

Institution#Last inductee
Notre Dame 43 2010
Michigan 30 2011
Southern California 28 2007
Ohio State 27 2010
Army 24 2004
Pittsburgh 24 2005
Penn State 22 2009
Oklahoma 22 2007
Minnesota 21 2009
Princeton 21 2002
Yale 21 2007
Tennessee 20 2006
Navy 19 2002
Alabama 18 2009
Pennsylvania 18 2001
Texas 17 2009
Harvard 17 2010
Stanford 16 2006
California 15 2004
Nebraska 14 2009​

 

[docsu]

Did they have more thought? How many traditional rivalries have gone by the wayside? How will new rivalries be created when geography gets in the way? What new rivalries has BC created and if they have none, why do you think SU will be able to create them?

This realignment stinks. I'd say to you that they were incredibly short sighted. I'm not saying this just because UConn is currently on the outside looking in, either. If UConn and Syracuse were joining the ACC I would feel the same way. I've said it right along, 20 years from now people will look back on this period and ask, "What the hell were they thinking?"

I'm not trying to be a (well, except to IthacaMatt and the SU fans who are laughing at our situation) but if FSU and Clemson feel slighted by Tobacco Road and BC is looking to be in a freefall what makes you think that SU will flourish in the ACC? Seriously, the best thing for SU IS UConn and Rutgers being asked to join. At least then you would have a 5 team northern block (6 including an unhappy MD) and if you included Clemson and FSU you'd have at least 50% of the teams that could vote against Tobacco Road and put pressure on Tobacco Road for equity in scheduling and future negotiating.

Seriously, if SU, Pitt and BC wanted to play it smart, they'd be agressively advocating for UConn and Rutgers to get invites. It would be win/win.

It's 450 miles from Lincoln to Norman, OK.

822 to Austin, Tx

136 to Manhattan (hey that's a close one!)

321 to Columbia

502 miles to Boulder

It's not like geography was doing Nebraska any favors in the XII. And let's be honest. Once you get past a certain distance, a plane trip is a plane trip. From an academic, cultural and stability standpoint that move made sense. Ditto with Colorado and Utah. The Big East is a confederacy of schools with different philosphies spread out over the country. It's membership is such jumbled mess of partial membership I can't follow anymore. It's destined to fail. If Syracuse or Pittsburgh didn't leave someone else would have. It's not any school's fault. It's just the culmination of decades of poor decsion making and lack of vision by the leadership of the conference.

I don't follow the logic that whatever will happen to BC will happen to SU because they're both private schools.

As of right now Syracuse, BC, Pitt, Maryland, and Miami already form a bloc of "norther schools."

 

[docsu]

Almost 5th or 6th

Institution#Last inductee​

Notre Dame 43 2010​

Michigan 30 2011​

Southern California 28 2007​

Ohio State 27 2010​

Army 24 2004​

Pittsburgh 24 2005​

Penn State 22 2009​

Oklahoma 22 2007​

Minnesota 21 2009​

Princeton 21 2002​

Yale 21 2007​

Tennessee 20 2006​

Navy 19 2002​

Alabama 18 2009​

Pennsylvania 18 2001​

Texas 17 2009​

Harvard 17 2010​

Stanford 16 2006​

California 15 2004​

Nebraska 14 2009​

Yeah SU is tied for 6th most alums in the NFL hall of fame.