Tennessee 2025, part 2 | Page 15 | The Boneyard

Tennessee 2025, part 2

EricSD said:
People are arguing logic vs. metrics. The metrics actually say Tennessee is a 6 seed while logic (record especially over their last 10-12 games) says they should be MUCH lower. The easy answer? The metrics are wrong. To have a 16-13 Tennessee team as the NET 22 is a joke. By that metric alone, Tennessee should be a 6-seed. And oddly enough, 17-13 USC is 23 according to the NET.

And saying that Tennessee had 25 good minutes against UConn or only lost to Texas by 4 is NOT enough to give them a break for the seedings. If a pair of 16-13 team and 17-13 are basically 6-seeds per the NET metrics, then the data they use is flawed.

It's interesting that a few are even talking about either of those teams (Tennessee or USC) missing the tourney. That's not happening, but it does seem the NET and other metrics are flawed and should be fixed.
Expand ...
That's what I keep saying! We see the results the formula is giving us, it's pretty easy to determine that the formula is significantly flawed. It's almost as if losses are meaningless.

How many games would Tennessee have to lose to drop out of the NET Top 25? Or Top 50? They could be 10 games under .500 and the NET would still like them.

I still really believe that RPI was better than NET. It wasn't this nonsensical. And the numbers actually changed after losses.
 
HuskyNan said:
It’s almost like some people still feel the rivalry or something
Expand ...
Vowelguy said:
I hate them more than most (I admire what the Romans did to Carthage and view it as a model for Knoxville), but let's not confuse rivalry with objective analysis.
Expand ...
Both of you have valid arguments. I would compare it to Auburn / Alabama. The football rivalry hasn't been very competitive over the last few years, however both fan bases, are just as passionate today as they were years and years ago.

As a since passed friend from AL once said, when I asked to date my now wife, her daddy had two questions:
1 - what church do you go to?​
2 - Auburn or Alabama?​
ps - he answered both of them correctly.
 
.-.
I only replied to what I believed to be the question, namely whether Tennessee deserves to be in the tournament somewhere. I think that's obvious, not merely on metrics but also because they're kinda fun to watch, and the NCAA has to consider that. Is the NET flawed? Sure, but it's not the only consideration the committee uses. Is RPI better? Maybe, but that's not germane to the question.

Does Tennessee deserve some special seeding? No, and neither does USC. But it would seem strange to exclude either of them. For one thing, both of them could probably win their first round and maybe second round games.
 
Tennessee has completely fallen apart, which makes the very mild quality of their wins less impactful to the mind than the overall train wreck.

But it's not like there are amazing alternatives on the bubble. Certainly the raw talent at UT is much better than anyone you could begin a case to replace them with.
 

"Multiple people have gone to the AD, including, I believe, kids around the program and have encouraged him to make a change,” said Basilio. “I don’t think he (White) wants to admit that he made a mistake. But here’s the truth: There are no secrets in sports. Everybody knows this thing is totally volatile. The people they bring in next year, player wise, are going to be brought in for monetary reasons only, and you’re right back where you were. A bunch of people are going to transfer out.”
 
Frankly, I don't think the LVs body of work is tournament worthy and I'm generally a fan. Their quality of wins isn't terrific and some of their losses are terrible, even taking out UConn and SC.

There are major problems in Knoxville. Some of the players and their chemistry appear to be toxic but that is on Caldwell. She recruited and assembled the team. She also has stubbornly refused to adjust to their talents and abilities, which are better than their record indicates but not as strong as some fans think. They also, at least to me, don't have many good wins in the big picture.

She should and will get one more season. If her freshmen stick and she swallows her pride to make adjustments next year could be better. However, they are further from success than they ever were with Warlick or Harper.
 
.-.
MSSportsGuy said:
Frankly, I don't think the LVs body of work is tournament worthy and I'm generally a fan. Their quality of wins isn't terrific and some of their losses are terrible, even taking out UConn and SC.

There are major problems in Knoxville. Some of the players and their chemistry appear to be toxic but that is on Caldwell. She recruited and assembled the team. She also has stubbornly refused to adjust to their talents and abilities, which are better than their record indicates but not as strong as some fans think. They also, at least to me, don't have many good wins in the big picture.

She should and will get one more season. If her freshmen stick and she swallows her pride to make adjustments next year could be better. However, they are further from success than they ever were with Warlick or Harper.
Expand ...
I agree with most of what you've said. However, I do think that Tennessee's overall body of work is tournament caliber. They're just more of an 8/9 seed instead of a 7 or better. Their stay in the NCAA tournament will be a short one.
 
Bone Dog said:
I only replied to what I believed to be the question, namely whether Tennessee deserves to be in the tournament somewhere. I think that's obvious, not merely on metrics but also because they're kinda fun to watch, and the NCAA has to consider that. Is the NET flawed? Sure, but it's not the only consideration the committee uses. Is RPI better? Maybe, but that's not germane to the question.

Does Tennessee deserve some special seeding? No, and neither does USC. But it would seem strange to exclude either of them. For one thing, both of them could probably win their first round and maybe second round games.
Expand ...
I will be curious to see how this all plays out for the Lady Vols and USC.
 
MSSportsGuy said:
Frankly, I don't think the LVs body of work is tournament worthy and I'm generally a fan. Their quality of wins isn't terrific and some of their losses are terrible, even taking out UConn and SC.

There are major problems in Knoxville. Some of the players and their chemistry appear to be toxic but that is on Caldwell. She recruited and assembled the team. She also has stubbornly refused to adjust to their talents and abilities, which are better than their record indicates but not as strong as some fans think. They also, at least to me, don't have many good wins in the big picture.

She should and will get one more season. If her freshmen stick and she swallows her pride to make adjustments next year could be better. However, they are further from success than they ever were with Warlick or Harper.
Expand ...
Disagree about their losses being terrible. The volume of losses is bad but they aren't losing to awful teams:
9 of their 13 losses are to teams projected to get a top 5 seed
2 of their 13 losses are to Alabama and NC State (projected 6 and 8 seeds)
The last 2 losses are to Mississippi State and Texas A&M, both of whom are bubble teams

Wins over Kentucky, Georgia, and Alabama are better than most other teams in the 8-9-10-bubble range. I think a lot of fans are missing that most teams who are 8/9/10/11 seeds are not good teams but they're still good enough to make a 68 team field. Tennessee has finished the year dreadfully with lots of rumors of disgruntled players and a bad locker room situation right now, but they're a lock for a tournament bid.

I do agree she should get another season unless the AD has someone in mind and is willing to shell out big bucks for her replacement. Caldwell has a very talented roster lined up for next season and I think it's worth sticking it out to see if she can make progress. All that said, if a bunch of players are threatening to leave because of her and it's clear she's lost the locker room, then it's time to let her go.
 
bballnut90 said:
Disagree about their losses being terrible. The volume of losses is bad but they aren't losing to awful teams:
9 of their 13 losses are to teams projected to get a top 5 seed
2 of their 13 losses are to Alabama and NC State (projected 6 and 8 seeds)
The last 2 losses are to Mississippi State and Texas A&M, both of whom are bubble teams

Wins over Kentucky, Georgia, and Alabama are better than most other teams in the 8-9-10-bubble range. I think a lot of fans are missing that most teams who are 8/9/10/11 seeds are not good teams but they're still good enough to make a 68 team field. Tennessee has finished the year dreadfully with lots of rumors of disgruntled players and a bad locker room situation right now, but they're a lock for a tournament bid.

I do agree she should get another season unless the AD has someone in mind and is willing to shell out big bucks for her replacement. Caldwell has a very talented roster lined up for next season and I think it's worth sticking it out to see if she can make progress. All that said, if a bunch of players are threatening to leave because of her and it's clear she's lost the locker room, then it's time to let her go.
Expand ...

Volnation is saying all but 1 freshman is hitting the portal as well as 2 other players. This person seems to have some inside knowledge. They knew Wynn was leaving before it was announced. It’s also believed that numerous players have gone to the AD saying she needs to go. She’s def lost the locker room. And not sure she’s gonna get it back
 
Geew1992 said:
"Multiple people have gone to the AD, including, I believe, kids around the program and have encouraged him to make a change,” said Basilio.
Expand ...
lol, these players were recruited and chose to play for her
now after a year or two they decide the coach is the problem?

If I were AD, and If she's not abusing players, I would look very skeptically at such complainers.
 
.-.
Vowelguy said:
lol, these players were recruited and chose to play for her
now after a year or two they decide the coach is the problem?

If I were AD, and If she's not abusing players, I would look very skeptically at such complainers.
Expand ...
I mean, if all but one player plans to transfer, that seems like a real problem. And recruiting can often be not much more than a visit weekend and some phone calls. And more to the point: Caldwell in year 2 is showing some significant signs of concern I'm not sure any of us saw in year one, so it's fair if the players' perceptions of her have been updated in light of the past few months as well...
 
TheFarmFan said:
I mean, if all but one player plans to transfer, that seems like a real problem. And recruiting can often be not much more than a visit weekend and some phone calls. And more to the point: Caldwell in year 2 is showing some significant signs of concern I'm not sure any of us saw in year one, so it's fair if the players' perceptions of her have been updated in light of the past few months as well...
Expand ...
Unclear how many players actually complained to the AD. And what exactly is that conversation “fire her or I’m leaving?”

There have also been rumors that Pauldo parents are high maintenance. You can’t let folks like that run your program.
 
If players were going to leave, they would have announced it by now. Also, since the regular season ended a week ago, who knows what could have transpired since then. Team meetings. Coach and player meetings. Meetings with the AD, the players, and coach. Or just a meeting with the AD and the players. Or meetings with just the AD and the coach to see what can be done to rally the team.

What we do know is the Lady Vols have not declined any post season play, so there is a glimmer of hope, so far. Hopefully cooler heads prevail in this matter. Coaches need the players and the players need the coaches.
 
JellyBean said:
If players were going to leave, they would have announced it by now. Also, since the regular season ended a week ago, who knows what could have transpired since then. Team meetings. Coach and player meetings. Meetings with the AD, the players, and coach. Or just a meeting with the AD and the players. Or meetings with just the AD and the coach to see what can be done to rally the team.

What we do know is the Lady Vols have not declined any post season play, so there is a glimmer of hope, so far. Hopefully cooler heads prevail in this matter. Coaches need the players and the players need the coaches.
Expand ...
Maybe not with the tournament around the corner. Their season isn't over unlike programs like Rutgers and Indiana.
 
JellyBean said:
If players were going to leave, they would have announced it by now. Also, since the regular season ended a week ago, who knows what could have transpired since then. Team meetings. Coach and player meetings. Meetings with the AD, the players, and coach. Or just a meeting with the AD and the players. Or meetings with just the AD and the coach to see what can be done to rally the team.

What we do know is the Lady Vols have not declined any post season play, so there is a glimmer of hope, so far. Hopefully cooler heads prevail in this matter. Coaches need the players and the players need the coaches.
Expand ...
Would they? By what logic do you make that bold claim? The players still have a NCAA tourney to play in.

I'm not arguing that players may be leaving - I hope a bunch do. I'd love it even more if Edwards decided not to bother and opted for another school. A total train wreck crashing and burning would suit me fine! But I just think it's more likely we will hear after the NCAA's, or at least after Tennessee is eliminated.
 
bballnut90 said:
Disagree about their losses being terrible. The volume of losses is bad but they aren't losing to awful teams:
9 of their 13 losses are to teams projected to get a top 5 seed
2 of their 13 losses are to Alabama and NC State (projected 6 and 8 seeds)
The last 2 losses are to Mississippi State and Texas A&M, both of whom are bubble teams

Wins over Kentucky, Georgia, and Alabama are better than most other teams in the 8-9-10-bubble range. I think a lot of fans are missing that most teams who are 8/9/10/11 seeds are not good teams but they're still good enough to make a 68 team field. Tennessee has finished the year dreadfully with lots of rumors of disgruntled players and a bad locker room situation right now, but they're a lock for a tournament bid.

I do agree she should get another season unless the AD has someone in mind and is willing to shell out big bucks for her replacement. Caldwell has a very talented roster lined up for next season and I think it's worth sticking it out to see if she can make progress. All that said, if a bunch of players are threatening to leave because of her and it's clear she's lost the locker room, then it's time to let her go.
Expand ...
I’ve been mulling this over-a lot. I do think the losses were dreadful, especially the blowouts by SC and UConn. It’s been repeatedly said that they played UConn close for a half. It doesn’t matter…they still ended up blown out.

What I’ve really been considering is the impact that the sheer size of the SEC has on strength of schedule. Right now, Massey has SOS as Texas, South Carolina, UCLA, Tennessee and LSU. Oklahoma, Kentucky and Vanderbilt are in the top 15. I think this is something of a ‘rising tide carries all boats’ phenomena. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how tough the schedule is, teams still have to win the games.

LSU played a cupcake non conference schedule but has 5 ranked wins (plus Duke, not ranked at the time). LSU get criticism on this board a lot, but they won meaningful games. Tennessee hasn’t. Personally, I think losing 9 of 11 games at the end of the season along with the rest of their body of work should keep them out. It probably won’t, but it should.
 
.-.
EricSD said:
Would they? By what logic do you make that bold claim? The players still have a NCAA tourney to play in.

I'm not arguing that players may be leaving - I hope a bunch do. I'd love it even more if Edwards decided not to bother and opted for another school. A total train wreck crashing and burning would suit me fine! But I just think it's more likely we will hear after the NCAA's, or at least after Tennessee is eliminated.
Expand ...

Volnation also said if coach Gabe gets a head coaching job Edward’s goes with him. He’s the reason she went there
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
167,606
Messages
4,529,880
Members
10,404
Latest member
RussellHall


Top Bottom