Tennessee 2025, part 2

[cabbie191]

There are multiple things you want to happen if you adopt an approach to full-court press virtually hundred percent of the time. Some of those things are obvious and you hope they happened early in the game — eg. 10 second violations and turnovers, but even if those things don't early, the ace in the hole is that you want to wear down the other team so they are exhausted and you can mop up at the end of the game.

I agree with the last point here but I think how Tenn’s season unfolded highlights my point. During the losing streak, they generally collapsed during the second half. My eye test says their opponents showed way more energy and stamina at the end of games.

Now how much of that is the result of conditioning vs deflated spirits, I wouldn’t hazard a guess. Well, I will hazard that it’s more the former. If you have played a team well through the first half, why would spirits be down to start the third? Maybe a coaching failure to adopt to the other teams’ adjustments?

During the Alabama game, I kind of thought the Lady Vols were a bit jinxed. They would get behind, make a rally, get within a basket of tying or taking the lead, only to have pretty good shots rattle out of the basket that could just as easily gone in. It happened several times. That’s just gotta be a morale sucker.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Curious about status of Copper.

Copper has been in the WNBA for a number of years and has no more eligibility, although I'm sure the Vols could really use her. 😆

 

[Geew1992]

Copper has been in the WNBA for a number of years and has no more eligibility, although I'm sure the Vols could really use her. 😆

She is a redshirt senior. She has another year of eligibility.

Not sure what you mean by the WNBA?

 

[JeannoCT]

You typed copper instead of cooper.

 

[cancontent]

She is a redshirt senior. She has another year of eligibility.

Not sure what you mean by the WNBA?

Check the spelling of the last name. 😉

 

[UConnCat]

You typed copper instead of copper.

Ah. Now I get it.

Status regarding the team, btw.

 

[cancontent]

Copper has been in the WNBA for a number of years and has no more eligibility, although I'm sure the Vols could really use her. 😆

Good one. 😉

 

[Vowelguy]

It was Cooper. I had the same reaction as you: playground pass. The camera went to Caldwell who had a “what was that?” look on her face.

Curious about status of Copper.

Thank you for confirming - I’ve been wondering!

 

[Vowelguy]

Funny how no one complains about USC being in the tournament even though their resume is almost identical.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Funny how no one complains about USC being in the tournament even though their resume is almost identical.

You have a point. It is similar. Some good wins, one really bad loss, and just a bunch of losses overall. Season got off track, but never quite as dramatically as Tennessee's did. They did end the season on a 4 game skid.

 

[ucmiami2]

I think what you see at TN is an issue with the portal - oh look at all the goodies available, I'll take em all! And then you try to create a unified team with a bunch of guys that all want to be a star, and displace your returning players and your freshman. You play cupcakes and it all looks good and everyone has some fun, but when it gets tough it just snowballs. They look like a bunch of individuals who don't like each other or their coaches.

I think the committee will definitely look at the last 12 game stretch - tough stretch no doubt but also not a good showing in most of the games they played and lost, and they will be an 8/9 seed even with their impressive schedule.

And as for coach - a number of teams have done the press/trap/sub - Mitchell at KY had his year or two of 40 mins of hell defense, Coach Q had a couple of season with his stop and pop 3 ptr running and subbing that actually got him to a FF, and others have as well. It usually is because you have a large homogeneous team without the talent or stars to win any other way than to create chaos. TN has enough talent that they could play straight up, but their coach likes the chaos, but I don't think her team likes it or is buying in at this point. And the actual half court defense is no good when the press fails.

Geno did this with his early teams and would use it in an arsenal of defensive options even when he had great talent if he had deep teams, and he has dusted it off this year in a big way because he finally has a full healthy team again. But it isn't the only way his team can play - they also can do straight up half court man, and occasionally switch to zone, as well as their full court trapping defense. If all you do is one thing, then teams can adjust, and you can't if plan A isn't working.

 

[ucmiami2]

You have a point. It is similar. Some good wins, one really bad loss, and just a bunch of losses overall. Season got off track, but never quite as dramatically as Tennessee's did. They did end the season on a 4 game skid.

Is anyone really think TN will be left out? I think both USC and TN are probably in, but both should be down around 8-10 seeds. It is something we will have to get used to with super conferences - 9+ teams getting in from SEC/BigTen.

I think they will also need to revisit the none of the top 4 teams in a conference can be in the same bracket - these teams generally play each other once in the reg season and might meet in a conference tournament so it isn't like the old days of the conference teams playing twice, and then probably a third time before the NCAA. And with posibly 6+ conference teams in the first 16 seeds, then put the ones that haven met twice together - LSU and TX and TX and SC shouldn't meet, but Vandy played all three of those teams only once so why not?.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Is anyone really think TN will be left out? I think both USC and TN are probably in, but both should be down around 8-10 seeds. It is something we will have to get used to with super conferences - 9+ teams getting in from SEC/BigTen.

I think they will also need to revisit the none of the top 4 teams in a conference can be in the same bracket - these teams generally play each other once in the reg season and might meet in a conference tournament so it isn't like the old days of the conference teams playing twice, and then probably a third time before the NCAA. And with posibly 6+ conference teams in the first 16 seeds, then put the ones that haven met twice together - LSU and TX and TX and SC shouldn't meet, but Vandy played all three of those teams only once so why not?.

Yeah at some point if there are enough teams from one conference in the Tourney, there's no way to avoid them potentially meeting before a Regional Final.

 

[Puppy Love]

Geno did this with his early teams and would use it in an arsenal of defensive options even when he had great talent if he had deep teams, and he has dusted it off this year in a big way because he finally has a full healthy team again. But it isn't the only way his team can play - they also can do straight up half court man, and occasionally switch to zone, as well as their full court trapping defense. If all you do is one thing, then teams can adjust, and you can't if plan A isn't working.

I remember well when UConn ran a press/trap defense. CPTV used to have segment where coach would explain elements of the game so that new fans could understand rules and strategy and I clearly remember him waiving his arms and explaining the press. The difference was that he wasn’t subbing out his players every 2 minutes. Those teams were 7 players deep and starters played until the game was well put away in the fourth quarter.

I think Tennessee’s fundamental problem is team chemistry followed by bad offense and worse defense. Whether that’s the fault of coaching or players could be discussed infinitely, but it clearly isn’t working.

 

[packwrap]

Iowa lost today 96-45. Wonder if fans will be calling for coach's head. 😁

 

[JellyBean]

Iowa lost today 96-45. Wonder if fans will be calling for coach's head. 😁

She has to go. Losing in the Conference Finals. Totally not exceptable.

 

[Vowelguy]

I also find it amusing the number of people who talk about how bad Tenn is, and yet they did something no other team has done this year: go on a 35-15 run against UConn.

They've got issues. But folks make it sound like they're no better than Central.

 

[Forego]

I also find it amusing the number of people who talk about how bad Tenn is, and yet they did something no other team has done this year: go on a 35-15 run against UConn.

They've got issues. But folks make it sound like they're no better than Central.

And Tennessee still lost by 30, being out-scored by 30 in the second half. But I have to admit you have a really good statistical cherry picker. Perhaps you should consider loaning it to the selection commitee when they justify why Tennessee is in the field of 68.

 

[Bone Dog]

I’m with @Vowelguy on this one — Tennessee did play really well against UConn for a stretch and that deserves our respect. From mid-1st quarter through mid-3rd quarter they played really tough and were leading the #1 ranked team in the land by as many as 4 points. Even Michigan didn’t manage that.

It’s also true that starting around the 6 minute mark in the 3rd quarter they ran out of gas. Not physical fatigue but mental fatigue. That’s what Geno’s defense does to opponents. Tennessee lost its focus and then UConn practically ran them off the court. The final score could have been a lot worse had Geno left Sarah and Azzi in longer. But a 30 point beatdown doesn’t negate the fact that Tennessee played really tough for most of that game. It was also probably a really good experience for our team, to be pushed hard and then to assert themselves and be able to dominate when it mattered.

 

[Vowelguy]

justify why Tennessee is in the field of 68.

You mean by using basic logic and analysis?

 

[Forego]

You mean by using basic logic and analysis?

I apologize to you and Bone Dog. I didn’t realize that playing a competitive half against UConn was the metric that carried the most weight by the selection committee. For years I kept hearing (from the selection committee’s spokes-person) that their decisions were based upon a team’s complete body of work, and not based on a team’s performance during a segment of one game that they ultimately lost by 30 points (due to mental fatigue?).

 

[HuskylnSC]

They've got issues. But folks make it sound like they're no better than Central.

You are what your record says you are. -- Bill Parcells

 

[Geew1992]

I’m with @Vowelguy on this one — Tennessee did play really well against UConn for a stretch and that deserves our respect. From mid-1st quarter through mid-3rd quarter they played really tough and were leading the #1 ranked team in the land by as many as 4 points. Even Michigan didn’t manage that.

It’s also true that starting around the 6 minute mark in the 3rd quarter they ran out of gas. Not physical fatigue but mental fatigue. That’s what Geno’s defense does to opponents. Tennessee lost its focus and then UConn practically ran them off the court. The final score could have been a lot worse had Geno left Sarah and Azzi in longer. But a 30 point beatdown doesn’t negate the fact that Tennessee played really tough for most of that game. It was also probably a really good experience for our team, to be pushed hard and then to assert themselves and be able to dominate when it mattered.

They also gave Texas a run for their money. Probably should have beaten them.

My theory.... the fact they don't have a consistent starting lineup doesn't help with the cohesiveness. Changing the starters based off of how they played the game before it crazy work. The coaches, not sure which, sets the substitution pattern before the game. Not sure if there are any adjustments to that during the game or if they stick to that game plan. Coach also recruited the same exact type of player. Not one is a 3 point shooter, an assist maker, or a play maker. Last year, she had team leaders that were part of the previous coaches culture. There doesn't really seem to be a culture or any team leaders.

 

[Phil]

Yeah at some point if there are enough teams from one conference in the Tourney, there's no way to avoid them potentially meeting before a Regional Final.

I commented on this phenomenon before but my post ended with the suggestion that the selection committee rules need to be rewritten. I'm not going to withdraw that suggestion but I do want to make it clear that when a problem is identified the best option is to fix the problem, not massage the aftermath. The right answer is to revisit the whole conference makeup.

It's a necessary reality that there will be travel in postseason national events, but now we reached the point that conference tournaments require substantial travel on top of regular-season travel.

Is anyone measured how much more travel there is these days compared to 20 years ago I'm betting it's up substantially, and I don't think that's a good thing.

 

[EricSD]

People are arguing logic vs. metrics. The metrics actually say Tennessee is a 6 seed while logic (record especially over their last 10-12 games) says they should be MUCH lower. The easy answer? The metrics are wrong. To have a 16-13 Tennessee team as the NET 22 is a joke. By that metric alone, Tennessee should be a 6-seed. And oddly enough, 17-13 USC is 23 according to the NET.

And saying that Tennessee had 25 good minutes against UConn or only lost to Texas by 4 is NOT enough to give them a break for the seedings. If a pair of 16-13 team and 17-13 are basically 6-seeds per the NET metrics, then the data they use is flawed.

It's interesting that a few are even talking about either of those teams (Tennessee or USC) missing the tourney. That's not happening, but it does seem the NET and other metrics are flawed and should be fixed.