Should Clark be on the Olympic team?

[Floridaduck]

Casual fans (aka new to WBB) seem to believe Clark invented the 3 point shot and no one else had ever done it like her. But if you check the 2023-24 NCAA individual stats you will find Clark sitting at 55th in 3 point percentage. Her WNBA 3 point % isn't much to write home about either. Not in top 10.

I like Clark and having her on the team would be fine. I like the new eyes and new fannies in the seats she has brought with her. But the all too common idea she "invented" wbb or the logo 3 is over the top for a WBB fan for 50+ years like myself. No sense of history for with noveau crowd and it is tacky.

 

[Vowelguy]

The W is expected to lose $50M this year. But yeah the problem is that Clark is getting too much attention.

You’ll never go wrong betting on the dumbness of the public.

WNBA Expected to Lose $50 Million Despite Popularity: Report

The WNBA's next television contract, negotiated in tandem with the NBA's next deal, is expected to provide financial windfall to a league long in the red.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Puppy Love]

The W is expected to lose $50M this year. But yeah the problem is that Clark is getting too much attention.

You’ll never go wrong betting on the dumbness of the public.

WNBA Expected to Lose $50 Million Despite Popularity: Report

The WNBA's next television contract, negotiated in tandem with the NBA's next deal, is expected to provide financial windfall to a league long in the red.

www.newsweek.com

It’s click bait at best. The loss is largely because of the addition of chartered flights about two years before they were expected. Since the WNBA media deal is currently being renegotiated, it’s pretty much expected that the WNBA will be in the black once that is complete. It gets complicated because the WNBA rates are negotiated as part of the package deal with the NBA rights and there’s a lot of accounting options for how things are allocated.

And no, I’m not that dumb.

 

[Dogdude]

It’s click bait at best. The loss is largely because of the addition of chartered flights about two years before they were expected. Since the WNBA media deal is currently being renegotiated, it’s pretty much expected that the WNBA will be in the black once that is complete. It gets complicated because the WNBA rates are negotiated as part of the package deal with the NBA rights and there’s a lot of accounting options for how things are allocated.

And no, I’m not that dumb.

I'm also skeptical of the accounting once the new deal is made. It's possible that some of the NBA owners are using Hollywood accounting, meaning all sorts of expenses are being thrown into the WNBA mix to lower income for tax breaks.

 

[ahmed69]

What we are seeing hearing and experiencing is social media hype!!! Caitlin Clark is the unfortunate target of all this stuff. And the "pundits/ experts" are to blame.

The Olympic selection committee has spoken about their process. Popularity and fannies in the seats is not part of their selection process. Clark did not participate in the tryouts/ workouts in March/ April. She had a valid season, the NCAA tournament. She has not played with the members of the Olympic team. Like it or not, her turn will come for the Olympic team. And it is not now.

Clark needs to improve her game. Her defense is suspect as it was in college. Shooting logo 3's is not enough. I believe she will improve.

What I really object to is the press, media and social mavens saying Clark was snubbed. That is a bold faced lie. She didn't get snubbed. She didn't go thru the selection process so she was not elligible. Their articles are putting a lot of pressure on her, the Fever, the Olympic selection committee and the WNBA in general. It's not good and we are seeing the results.

She was the number one overall pick, and is driving ticket sales for the WNBA that no player has done in a long time. Don't overthink it, let her play lol

 

[diggerfoot]

The team FG% argument is a cherry picked statistic that you continue to bring up. FWIW, Taurasi’s teammates consistently shot 4-6.5% better than her throughout her UCONN career for another GOAT comparison. She’s also never been an above average defender which discredits point #1 unless you’re eliminating Taurasi from contention.

Clark’s teammates are capable shooters but the entire offense ran through Clark and was dependent on Clark’s ability to create for others or make shots herself. She scored or assisted on 68.5% of Iowa’s made field goals. The vast majority of those points were Clark creating her looks for herself or others. Her assists were usually wide open catch and shoot jumpers for teammates, transition layups from Clark’s great passing, or cutting layups in the half court from Clark threading the needle. Her teammates were being put in great positions to score due to Clark’s passing. Her teammates were solid, but only Martin (2nd round draft pick) and Stuelke (sophomore this year) have a realistic shot to make a WNBA roster. Compared to almost every other program that’s made consecutive Final Fours, that’s a notably weak roster she was working with.


In regards to point 3, you can cherry pick the individual turnovers as a negative, but I’d argue it’s a product of her handling 68.5% of the offense, so of course she’ll have more TOs. As the person responsible handling the majority of the offense, she led Iowa to a 91ppg scoring average, good for first in the nation by 5+ points. You can’t harp on the turnovers without acknowledging how potent the offense was with Clark managing the bulk of it. Individually she had higher TOs but it led to her running the best offense in the country.

Did not see this until you pointed it out. As for cherry picking, it would be that if my cause was comparing Clark to Taurasi. It wasn’t. Offenses with good shooting percentages get open looks, whether by execution or by players left open. In either case 53% is rare. Taurasi’s teammates for example, only because you went there, did not shoot 53% despite being all-stars in a well run offense.

Or to jump ahead to your most recent comments. Clark is playing with a bunch of all stars now, you claimed they get open looks because of Clark, yet they are not shooting anywhere near 53%. It’s an extraordinary stat that reflects more than just getting open looks, or else by your very claim the Fever should be shooting much better.

You think I’m cherry picking to prove Clark is inferior to Taurasi or anyone else? I’m citing the 53% to champion the importance of her teammates and offensive minded coach. What other stat should I use for that? Or is it that no shooting percentage could convince you that, though the team and teammates may have defensive and athletic shortcomings that prevent them from being all stars, they are elite shooters who contributed mightily to the success of that offense. Tell me. Name your stat. What shooting percentage would convince you that her teammates were elite shooters whether with Clark or a well run offense getting them open looks. 60%? Would that convince you her teammates were the real deal as shooters? Please cite the percentage you think would have justified giving credit to Clark’s teammates as well for Iowa’s success to show you are not simply being dogged with whatever your agenda is.

As for the turnovers, I started noting those for a separate reason of defending Muhl against UConn fans who claimed she got so many assists because of her high shooting teammates. I at first focused on past UConn teams that shot better than Muhl’s teammates, but the research drifted me to her assist rival’s numbers for comparison. I was not surprised by Clark’s lower A/T ratio, she is a much better player than Muhl but not a better decision maker at the point guard spot. So admittedly I bring that up occasionally.

But I was surprised when I saw how well Iowa shot the ball. Since I was focused on Muhl I did not concern myself with the Iowa team until a year later when I started seeing comments like greatest player of all time, with the way she lifted up her average teammates as proof. That is disrespectful to those teammates and frankly, pretty ignorant as to the eliteness of their shooting ability. I’m frankly surprised at how you continue to be dismissive of Iowa’s superlative shooting, something Clark’s open all star teammates in the pros are never going to match. So once again, what shooting percentage would satisfy you that Iowa consisted of elite shooters despite other flaws? What percentage would cause you to stop repeating how average they were? Does such a percentage exist for you? Or is there an agenda that prevents you from considering such a thing?

 

[EricLA]

What we are seeing hearing and experiencing is social media hype!!! Caitlin Clark is the unfortunate target of all this stuff. And the "pundits/ experts" are to blame.

The Olympic selection committee has spoken about their process. Popularity and fannies in the seats is not part of their selection process. Clark did not participate in the tryouts/ workouts in March/ April. She had a valid season, the NCAA tournament. She has not played with the members of the Olympic team. Like it or not, her turn will come for the Olympic team. And it is not now.

Clark needs to improve her game. Her defense is suspect as it was in college. Shooting logo 3's is not enough. I believe she will improve.

What I really object to is the press, media and social mavens saying Clark was snubbed. That is a bold faced lie. She didn't get snubbed. She didn't go thru the selection process so she was not elligible. Their articles are putting a lot of pressure on her, the Fever, the Olympic selection committee and the WNBA in general. It's not good and we are seeing the results.

You really nailed it. Clark vs. whoever for the Olympic team is so silly. As was pointed out before, Clark missed every single US National practice/camp leading up to the selection (for good reasons, but still, she missed everything). From Team USA's perspective, Clark was completely ineligible for the team. The whining by some fans and media pundits has gotten way more press than it should, but given Clark's popularity, I can see why it was initially discussed. To continue with the complaining about it is just silly. Even if there were to be 2 or 3 injured Olympians, I think the committee would be hard pressed to have valid reasons to put Clark on the team. She likely wasn't even the 1st or 2nd alternate.

And frankly the whole "interest in women's basketball" argument is just silly. The USWNT has one single goal in the Olympics - win gold. They don't give a rat's ass how many "eyeballs" watch the game on TV. The WNBA is enjoying unprecedented fan interest with sellouts all over the league and it's not just the Clark effect, altho I think most would agree she's the main "one to see".

And BTW, I like Clark for the most part. Her whining is a tad annoying, but she's handled the player aggression, fan craziness, etc. really well for a rookie.

As a side note, look at the "player rankings" for the 3x3 teams. Many of the names are barely recognizable, and one player on the team going to Paris couldn't even make it in the WNBA. BUT she has a high 3x3 ranking and therefore is on the team. And Van Lith? Don't even get me started there. I would not be surprised if her WNBA career follows closely the path laid out by Shoni Schimmel.

My point is, they did not even come close to selecting 4 of the best WNBA players to represent Team USA. They selected 4 players with high 3x3 rankings who have a lot of experience.

But I digress. It would be interesting to see what would happen SHOULD one of the current Olympians be injured. Collier is suffering from plantar fasciitis and is out indefinitely IIRC. IF she's unable to play, the team is down a wing/forward. I'm not sure who was part of the Olympic pool, and if they'd go with a forward type player, or a guard to replace her.

 

[visitingcock]

No. She should spend her time during the Olympics working out with her team

 

[Gamecockfan77]

The US National Team will win gold easily regardless of who the last two players on the roster are. The National twam's regularly take players who aren't strictly speaking the best choices for reasons that aren't basketball reasons. Taurasi this year being one example.

I think it's not really worth the controversy.

I don't think the WNBA calls the shot exactly on who is on the roster.

The USNT doesn't necessarily have a great interest in the biggest possible audience to the same degree as WNBA might. Either way it will be a boost.

 

[GoUconn7961]

I wish we could close this thread.

 

[visitingcock]

I wish we could close this thread.

Change to: Can the Fever reach .500?

 

[TheFarmFan]

The US National Team will win gold easily regardless of who the last two players on the roster are. The National twam's regularly take players who aren't strictly speaking the best choices for reasons that aren't basketball reasons. Taurasi this year being one example.

I think it's not really worth the controversy.

I don't think the WNBA calls the shot exactly on who is on the roster.

The USNT doesn't necessarily have a great interest in the biggest possible audience to the same degree as WNBA might. Either way it will be a boost.

!

I look forward to the incense you'll burn, voodoo doll you'll create, and bad juju you'll undo in order to get back in the good graces of the Woofing Gods between now and mid-August!

 

[GirlBoo1020]

The US National Team will win gold easily regardless of who the last two players on the roster are. The National twam's regularly take players who aren't strictly speaking the best choices for reasons that aren't basketball reasons. Taurasi this year being one example.

I think it's not really worth the controversy.

I don't think the WNBA calls the shot exactly on who is on the roster.

The USNT doesn't necessarily have a great interest in the biggest possible audience to the same degree as WNBA might. Either way it will be a boost.

Idk, I think injuries could be a real issue for the womens team in Paris. Phee(foot), Taurasi (knee/ankle), Stewie (knee) all have recent injuries that will likely hamper them through the games if not keep them out entirely. Anything happens to 1-2 more players and the US could be in a lot of trouble in a couple of weeks, especially considering Gray is still working her way back to form.

 

[The deacon]

I wish we could close this thread.

Why? If BYers are still interested enough to read this and post right up to the Olympics, why close the thread?

You're certainly welcome to not check it out, although you're apparently interested enough to hop on again this morning. Patience, the Olympics are right around the corner.

Change to: Can the Fever reach .500?

Sounds like a worthwhile thread to start, visitingcock.

 

[visitingcock]

Why? If BYers are still interested enough to read this and post right up to the Olympics, why close the thread?

You're certainly welcome to not check it out, although you're apparently interested enough to hop on again this morning. Patience, the Olympics are right around the corner.


Sounds like a worthwhile thread to start, visitingcock.

How about: "Can the Fever and/or Sky reach .500 this season?"

 

[bbsamjj]

The Sky (8-12) have 20 games left to play (10 at home, 10 on road); 12 of those games are against teams with records above .500. That includes:

• 3 games against Vegas
• 2 games against NY (both this week)
• 2 games against CT
• 2 games against MN

The Fever (9-13) have 18 games left to play (11 at home, 7 on road); 9 of those are against teams with records above .500. That includes:

• 2 games against Vegas
• 2 games against MN
• 1 game against CT

A tough road for either to get to 20-20, but schedule definitely favors the Fever.

 

[Vowelguy]

The US National Team will win gold easily regardless of who the last two players on the roster are. The National twam's regularly take players who aren't strictly speaking the best choices for reasons that aren't basketball reasons. Taurasi this year being one example.

Experience isn't a basketball reason?

The USNT doesn't necessarily have a great interest in the biggest possible audience to the same degree as WNBA might.

If the USWNT generates boffo ratings then it greatly helps future Olympic teams in terms of sponsorships and investment.

 

[cancontent]

Experience isn't a basketball reason?



If the USWNT generates boffo ratings then it greatly helps future Olympic teams in terms of sponsorships and investment.

Flavor Flav sponsored the women's water Polo team. Imagine if he joined on with the USWNT? The hype videos would be legendary

 

[Blueballer]

The US National Team will win gold easily regardless of who the last two players on the roster are. The National twam's regularly take players who aren't strictly speaking the best choices for reasons that aren't basketball reasons. Taurasi this year being one example.

It's funny you should mention that. Taurasi doesn't dump in baskets by the ton like she used to but there's a lot more to basketball than putting it through the hoop. For example when she is out Griner's scoring goes WAY down. Taurasi not only makes a concerted effort to get her the ball but does so efficiently in the right spot.

And another funny coincidence here is when Sue and Diana were just starting out Staley was still the point guard on the USA team. She was in the twilight of her career and I remember thinking "Why is she on the team?" Just give it to Sue now. But Sue's first minutes at he Olympics weren't great and I recall Sue saying how happy she was to have had Dawn there to learn from. She wasn't thinking Dawn wasn't deserving.

 

[Vowelguy]

Flavor Flav sponsored the women's water Polo team. Imagine if he joined on with the USWNT? The hype videos would be legendary

Does anyone under 40 know or care about Flavor Flav?

 

[cancontent]

Does anyone under 40 know or care about Flavor Flav?

That would be the generation raised on the "Flavor of Love" reality series. I believe they would.

 

[TheFarmFan]

That would be the generation raised on the "Flavor of Love" reality series. I believe they would.

I plead the Fifth as to this entire line of questioning. No answer is going to be a good answer...

 

[cancontent]

I plead the Fifth as to this entire line of questioning. No answer is going to be a good answer...

 

[Majic Hands]

Humm. Didn’t see the don’t care as an option.