Shocking News Out of North Carolina Women's Basketball

[willtalk]

Another very reasonable possibility is she has been saying such things for years, and no one ever spoke up because they didn't care, or were afraid, or it did not even occur to them. A lot of people just do not think that way.

Possible- certainly. A reasonable possibility- not hardly. Do you really think that someone in Hatchel's position would have or even could have been able to get away with and kept that secret for as long as she has been at NC? Especially in the political climate that has existed for some time now? Of course, it is also just as possible that she has been eating the hearts of the children she has sacrificed during Satanic rituals in order to keep all her nefarious actions well hidden. She may be bigoted but it isn't in respect to race.

 

[DefenseBB]

For me, the real frustration is peers and reporters blindly supporting “said individual” by assuming facts or character and not letting the investigation play out. On one side we have a whole team leadership being suspended so an unimpeded investigation can occur which is comparable to getting a probable cause search warrant. It doesn’t mean anyone is guilty or innocent but a clarity of facts to support or refute assertions.
All of are viewing the various “spins” by reporters, lawyers and others as their basis, which is limiting. I am not a fan of Coach Hatchell, however I need to see the full set of facts, texts, emails and supported/corroborated evidence first. I do think the initial issues of pressuring players to play hurt is a bit damning. The racist aspect is a tad suspect to me but again, I need to see it fully investigated before I can damn or exonerate her and the staff.
I only hope more reporters and coaches as well as my peer posters here do the same. Either way, this is sad for our sport.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Hatchell and her university bobbed and weaved out of a multi-multi year academic cheating scandal involving her players. Since these things are supposedly no longer being done, maybe the free "education" is not enough for some of her players to remain silent. Course, it just may be a witch hunt in the #MeToo era.

 

[Madmannsucks]

Possible- certainly. A reasonable possibility- not hardly. Do you really think that someone in Hatchel's position would have or even could have been able to get away with and kept that secret for as long as she has been at NC? Especially in the political climate that has existed for some time now? Of course, it is also just as possible that she has been eating the hearts of the children she has sacrificed during Satanic rituals in order to keep all her nefarious actions well hidden. She may be bigoted but it isn't in respect to race.

I am not even remotely suggesting she is a bigot.
But a 67 year old growing up in a small town in North Carolina spending her years in the South saying insensitive things to black players? No, that is not a reach at all.
The 2nd part of your post is really out of left field, and makes no sense.
Yeah, Just as possible. Sigh?
I presented a possibility that, to a reasonable person would not be a reach. I wasn't there, but I have been around the block more than once.

 

[HuskyMJ]

I believe was she actually said was that if their play does not improve " Their gonna string us up and hang us up to dry". That, to my recollection is an old saying that has very little to do with Lynchings. More like laundry Young peoples knowledge of common sayings is severely lacking. It was taken totally out of context. I don't even care for Hatchel but calling that a racist statement is absurd. These are college students? Sort of poetic justice that she gets brought down by a misconstrued statement based on ignorance of common English sayings.

You are taking all of the accusations and downplaying them to make it seem like Hatchell didn't do anything wrong. Why do you think 4 UNC players are transferring and 2 more would if Hatchell stays? I mean give the kids some credence they were with Hatchell all season, if she said some stuff she shouldn't have said, I believe they heard it and aren't dreaming.

 

[oldude]

While what Hatchell said and did at UNC is in dispute, one thing is not in dispute. This is the 2nd time in 5 years that UNC will have half their roster transfer. Either Hatchell is recruiting the wrong kids, or she just isn’t doing a very good job establishing a relationship with them.

 

[CL82]

I defy anyone to do that in an office or in a class room and see what happens to your job.

Perhaps the least relevant argument I've seen on the BY in quite a while and that is saying a lot.

 

[CL82]

Cuz male players don't have to --most can knock any coach on his tail. Nuf Sed, that ends conversations quickly.

So anyone with physical parity to an figure of authority can't be verbally abused?

Respectfully disagree.

 

[NewCorn]

I believe was she actually said was that if their play does not improve " Their gonna string us up and hang us up to dry". That, to my recollection is an old saying that has very little to do with Lynchings. More like laundry Young peoples knowledge of common sayings is severely lacking. It was taken totally out of context. I don't even care for Hatchel but calling that a racist statement is absurd. These are college students? Sort of poetic justice that she gets brought down by a misconstrued statement based on ignorance of common English sayings.

Every black person, young or old knows the difference between "hang us out to dry" and "take y’all outside with some nooses"

 

[NewCorn]

Good Lord! Just hoping we can evolve as a society where we are not so crippled by certain words and pay more attention to the intent of the words.

The people who can best judge the intent of Hatchel"s words are those who were on the scene at the time, not Hatchel's lawyers.

 

[sivad40]

While what Hatchell said and did at UNC is in dispute, one thing is not in dispute. This is the 2nd time in 5 years that UNC will have half their roster transfer. Either Hatchell is recruiting the wrong kids, or she just isn’t doing a very good job establishing a relationship with them.

I would say it's more of the latter. Assistants who are no longer on the staff recruited most of those players. Tricia Stafford-Odom recruited the 2013 class (it was rumored that 3 out of the 4 of them cried when she left UNC), Ivory Latta recruited Destinee Walker, and Tracey Johnson-Williams recruited Stephanie Watts and others.

 

[hjoerring]

Good Lord! Just hoping we can evolve as a society where we are not so crippled by certain words and pay more attention to the intent of the words.

Yes; like learning to separate the gold from the dross? College students are not as stupid as some would think. Authors of statements that are 'racist', 'sexist', etc., do not have to be racist themselves. We are all getting ahead of things based on incomplete statements. There are two things that I find interesting: 1) one, the entire staff is being evaluated. I am assuming that it isn't a homogeneous group. 2) univ are wont to defend administrators/coaches that they want and ease out others that have become expendable.
And, I may add here that all parents know that soon or later you fall out generationally with your kids, especially when it comes to language. As parents, we have other things to fall back upon and a positive relation can remain. I would not be so arrogant to think that what worked for me yesterday should work today; and, therefore no change is necessary, This is a problem I see with old colleagues who think that the same class notes from 20-years ago are still good-- including the jokes.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

This just occurred to me as I caught up with this thread. Whatever the reports of anecdotal evidence of whatever are about Sylvia Hatchell and her staff, and not meaning to address whatever her issues are or are not that bring the suspension and investigation...in other words, without regard to the merits of whatever the case or non-case against Hatchell is ... so strictly hypothetically I ask: If a non-black person did not like black people, why would such a person devote a lifetime to a profession that had them interacting constantly with people many if not most of whom are black?

 

[CocoHusky]

This just occurred to me as I caught up with this thread. Whatever the reports of anecdotal evidence of whatever are about Sylvia Hatchell and her staff, and not meaning to address whatever her issues are or are not that bring the suspension and investigation...in other words, without regard to the merits of whatever the case or non-case against Hatchell is ... so strictly hypothetically I ask: If a non-black person did not like black people, why would such a person devote a lifetime to a profession that had them interacting constantly with people many if not most of whom are black?

Regardless of how many black people Sylvia has coached she is no different than the rest of us in this regard: We are all capable of misusing a phrase or using words that someone might take offense to. When and if this happens we should all resort to the Kobe Bryant model. After using a gay slur directed at a referee during a 2011 game Kobe said this:
"My actions were out of frustration during the heat of the game, period," he said. "The words expressed do NOT reflect my feelings towards the gay and lesbian communities and were NOT meant to offend anyone.".
So if Sylvia did use that exact phrase and did not mean to offend anyone, an apology should be the end of it. Somehow I suspect it will not be because we already have lawyers quibbling about what exactly was said through the media. This is about something else!

 

[oldude]

Regardless of how many black people Sylvia has coached she is no different than the rest of us in this regard: We are all capable of misusing a phrase or using words that someone might take offense to. When and if this happens we should all resort to the Kobe Bryant model. After using a gay slur directed at a referee during a 2011 game Kobe said this:
"My actions were out of frustration during the heat of the game, period," he said. "The words expressed do NOT reflect my feelings towards the gay and lesbian communities and were NOT meant to offend anyone.".
So if Sylvia did use that exact phrase and did not mean to offend anyone, an apology should be the end of it. Somehow I suspect it will not be because we already have lawyers quibbling about what exactly was said through the media. This is about something else!

I point out again that whatever words were used or not used by Sylvia Hatchell, the bigger issue is her continuing problem establishing a strong relationship with her players. 5 years ago, she lost half her team via transfer. It appears that is about to happen again. It speaks to a fundamental problem Hatchell has relating to young people.

 

[CocoHusky]

I point out again that whatever words were used or not used by Sylvia Hatchell, the bigger issue is her continuing problem establishing a strong relationship with her players. 5 years ago, she lost half her team via transfer. It appears that is about to happen again. It speaks to a fundamental problem Hatchell has relating to young people.

Not buying that at all. Sylvia has consistently pulled in good recruiting classes since the the Diamond debacle. Those classes have included USA caliber basketball players like Bailey and McDonalds All-America like Watts & walker , also high impact transfers like Paris Kea from Vanderbilt. Since 2013 UCONN has had more player transfer out than UNC has. Sylvia is relating just fine to young people.

 

[oldude]

Not buying that at all. Sylvia has consistently pulled in good recruiting classes since the the Diamond debacle. Those classes have included USA caliber basketball players like Bailey and McDonalds All-America like Watts & walker , also high impact transfers like Paris Kea from Vanderbilt. Since 2013 UCONN has had more player transfer out than UNC has. Sylvia is relating just fine to young people.

Well, then you have to subscribe to the DD poisoned the well theory 5 years ago, and as for this year, it remains to be seen whether this is one disgruntled player pushing an agenda or several players with legitimate concerns about the HC.

 

[Crossover]

This just occurred to me as I caught up with this thread. Whatever the reports of anecdotal evidence of whatever are about Sylvia Hatchell and her staff, and not meaning to address whatever her issues are or are not that bring the suspension and investigation...in other words, without regard to the merits of whatever the case or non-case against Hatchell is ... so strictly hypothetically I ask: If a non-black person did not like black people, why would such a person devote a lifetime to a profession that had them interacting constantly with people many if not most of whom are black?

A white person can like black people or like being around them and still believe in white supremacy (or black inferiority). A white person can like black people so long as they stay in their place or express gratitude. And a white person can like a black person in all his or her complexity, and without regard for power dynamics. I have experienced all of the above. I prefer the third.

 

[CocoHusky]

Well, then you have to subscribe to the DD poisoned the well theory 5 years ago, and as for this year, it remains to be seen whether this is one disgruntled player pushing an agenda or several players with legitimate concerns about the HC.

Be careful how far back you go comparing UCONN transfers to UNC transfers. UCONN 2010
class transfer rate was 60%.

 

[VAMike23]

While what Hatchell said and did at UNC is in dispute, one thing is not in dispute. This is the 2nd time in 5 years that UNC will have half their roster transfer. Either Hatchell is recruiting the wrong kids, or she just isn’t doing a very good job establishing a relationship with them.

Facts is facts !!

 

[oldude]

Be careful how far back you go comparing UCONN transfers to UNC transfers. UCONN 2010
class transfer rate was 60%.

Coco, it was not really my intention to get into a discussion of transfer rates between UNC and UConn, or any other school for that matter. When Geno lost players, it was typically one at a time usually because they weren't seeing the court. UNC is losing players in bunches, At a minimum Hatchell has to do a serious self assessment.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Anyone who would assume that one version of an exchange in which they were not present is without a doubt correct would be wrong. Perhaps I should have been more detailed in my post. What I meant to say was that that was what Hatchel said she said instead of " what she actually said".

That part out of the way, Hatchel's version is very very highly more probable than the other version. It is very believable that a young college student under stress might translate the "hang out to dry" statement into what they believe she might have said. The younger generation is especially ignorant in respect to what used to be commonly used idioms or phrases. I have experienced many incidents where (even devoid of idioms ) what a person thought they heard was vastly different than what was actually said. Hey, there are even examples on forums like this where people misinterpreted or misread things that are right in front of them in black and white.

I have never been a fan of Hatchel. I think she is an example of a dinosaur who has kept her position via the " Good ole boy/girl system". Yet it is very improbable that someone who has been around as long as she has would suddenly out of the blue and say that if a player didn't improve she would be taken out and lynched. If you believe that then either your BS meter is broken or it suits some social agenda.

The player who made that accusation probably truly believes that is what was said. Still, we need to be as sensitive to people who are falsely accused of things as we are to the individuals that believe they might have been wronged. If we truly believe that being a racist/bigot is so wrong, then being falsely accused of being one is far more offensive than someone who might have been offended by a racist statement. That is something that has been ignored by those that cherry pick who is entitled to be offended and who is not.

Why us her version closer to the truth? That is ridiculous.

In big-time college athletics, players generally choose the coach more so than the institution. If you can earn a scholarship to play at UNC, you probably could have played at 80 other schools. Those young ladies chose her.

If you believe her version of events over theirs, you must believe these young ladies conspired to ruin the coach and program they freely chose over most others. Sure that is possible, but why?

They were bothered enough that they called home. The university saw enough to make them suspend the entire staff. But her version is more like true?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

A white person can like black people or like being around them and still believe in white supremacy (or black inferiority). A white person can like black people so long as they stay in their place or express gratitude. And a white person can like a black person in all his or her complexity, and without regard for power dynamics. I have experienced all of the above. I prefer the third.

I do understand the 3 of maybe infinite varieties of racial interaction attitudes. But, to put my question more directly, if you are a bigot do you really choose a career that has you hanging around the people you have bigoted thoughts about. This isn't 1850s Carolina and she isn't raising cotton.

 

[Madmannsucks]

I do understand the 3 of maybe infinite varieties of racial interaction attitudes. But, to put my question more directly, if you are a bigot do you really choose a career that has you hanging around the people you have bigoted thoughts about. This isn't 1850s Carolina and she isn't raising cotton.

I think calling her a bigot is a reach to be honest. I also think her life experiences would tend to indicate she might lack empathy for the experience of a black person. IF she said what was attributed to her, it is likely she thought there was nothing wrong with it.

 

[CocoHusky]

Coco, it was not really my intention to get into a discussion of transfer rates between UNC and UConn, or any other school for that matter. When Geno lost players, it was typically one at a time usually because they weren't seeing the court. UNC is losing players in bunches, At a minimum Hatchell has to do a serious self assessment.

All Sylvia has to do address the specific allegations. You stated that "UNC is losing players in bunches" and implied that is related to the allegations against Sylvia. It is at least partial unrelated, per an earlier post "at least 3 of the NC players were in the transfer portal prior to the allegations. Two of the three UNC players that are in the transfer portal Destinee Walker & Stephanie Watts are both HS class of 2015 meaning that they will be graduate transfers and might have been leaving UNC anyway. BTW Sylvia has 1 more year remaining on her contract, she is not going to get an extension, this is the end of the road for her at UNC either way.