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Shocking News Out of North Carolina Women's Basketball

KnightBridgeAZ

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from what little I have seen this is more about player complaints over their treatment then a continuation of an educational scandal......I'm sure there are some abusive coaches out there but I always take these stories with a grain of salt in this new age of entitlement..
Yep. Anyone can complain - and you know something - in this day and age the university will generally back the player if the coach was, indeed, deemed too harsh. But the line marking "too harsh" is too fluid for common sense. Truth - Geno, Vivian, the late Pat Summitt and many of the better coaches could all be accused. It just takes one "bad apple" who doesn't "get it". Those who "get it", whether they like it or not, are unlikely to complain. As you say, the age of entitlement.
 

Zorro

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If I remember correctly, about half of Sylvia's players were involved with the "ghost classes" and/or the phantom African/African American Studies program. She could not have known about it, any more than could Roy. There damned well should be consequences!
 
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If I remember correctly, about half of Sylvia's players were involved with the "ghost classes" and/or the phantom African/African American Studies program. She could not have known about it, any more than could Roy. There damned well should be consequences!
For both.
 
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If I remember correctly, about half of Sylvia's players were involved with the "ghost classes" and/or the phantom African/African American Studies program. She could not have known about it, any more than could Roy. There damned well should be consequences!

But that was a long time ago. Why the suspensions now?
 

DefenseBB

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Yep. Anyone can complain - and you know something - in this day and age the university will generally back the player if the coach was, indeed, deemed too harsh. But the line marking "too harsh" is too fluid for common sense. Truth - Geno, Vivian, the late Pat Summitt and many of the better coaches could all be accused. It just takes one "bad apple" who doesn't "get it". Those who "get it", whether they like it or not, are unlikely to complain. As you say, the age of entitlement.
No offense here Knightsbridge but you are part of the problem by making assumptions and about outdated methods. Given my unfortunate knowledge of two Athletic Department investigations into abuse, schools do not blindly take a word from 1 athlete. Investigations occur after multiple concerns are raised and corroborated. At that point a prelim investigation occurs and if warranted, an external firm is brought in due to too many personal relationships of the AD Personnel being too close to coaching staffs (too aligned for job protection). Then the various academic, medical and transportation staff are included.
For the NC (and GT) programs having to bring in outside firms shows this is NOT SCAPEGOATING anything but a concern over other methods of management style outdated and in some violation of rights.
Workplace and Athletic environments ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. Those who want to parse that they aren’t are simply in denial and not up with current laws.
The Men’s programs of Football and Basketball have these issues as well however there have been too many swept under the rug or members “shamed” for not “manning up as a big boy” to take criticism, which is absurd but it happens. Tom Izzo’s Berating on national TV was wrong and his additional comments to justify it were also wrong and yet the school ignores it due to the money involved. There will be more men’s programs that will slowly come out as hostile work environments and the usual rhetoric will follow to shame those reporting it, and that is the real issue, people not willing to listen.
 

oldude

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I played and coached college football during the dark ages. While I played for and worked with some tough, demanding coaches, even then there was a clear line that most coaches understood they could not cross. It has never been acceptable to use racial epithets or personally abusive behavior when dealing with players, although I know that sometimes such behavior occurred, usually behind closed doors, when kids were too scared to say anything. Even a championship coach like Bobby Knight eventually learned that certain behaviors towards players were unacceptable.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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No offense here Knightsbridge but you are part of the problem by making assumptions and about outdated methods. Given my unfortunate knowledge of two Athletic Department investigations into abuse, schools do not blindly take a word from 1 athlete. Investigations occur after multiple concerns are raised and corroborated. At that point a prelim investigation occurs and if warranted, an external firm is brought in due to too many personal relationships of the AD Personnel being too close to coaching staffs (too aligned for job protection). Then the various academic, medical and transportation staff are included.
For the NC (and GT) programs having to bring in outside firms shows this is NOT SCAPEGOATING anything but a concern over other methods of management style outdated and in some violation of rights.
Workplace and Athletic environments ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. Those who want to parse that they aren’t are simply in denial and not up with current laws.
The Men’s programs of Football and Basketball have these issues as well however there have been too many swept under the rug or members “shamed” for not “manning up as a big boy” to take criticism, which is absurd but it happens. Tom Izzo’s Berating on national TV was wrong and his additional comments to justify it were also wrong and yet the school ignores it due to the money involved. There will be more men’s programs that will slowly come out as hostile work environments and the usual rhetoric will follow to shame those reporting it, and that is the real issue, people not willing to listen.
Please read the article about Geno's and the other Final Four coaches. Geno is saying what I was trying to say, only much better. If you don't agree, that's fine.

I have seen quite a number of examples of coaches crossing - and crossing very clearly - a line. Actually, Rich Rod of the Arizona football program, while it wasn't for his coaching, and there was no evidence for the sexual harassment claims of his secretary, was ultimately fired because he created an unacceptable culture. And quite rightly so.

At the same time, some coaches are not going to change, but are ultimately if anything too harsh, not abusive. Abusive is belittling players for who they are, not saying "they can't guard a chair" as I seem to recall Geno saying. And it is calling someone an ethnic insult - not yelling 'No more foreigners" when Svet made a play he didn't like. It is telling someone they are a disgrace - and not calling them a "Human Foul" as I heard Geno call Schumacher? (the player from Canada).

Was there really anything wrong with Geno's remarks? But in today's day and age - could someone think that he insults his players? Um, I think so. And I'm sorry, but for all the long list of folks who have abused players, there are lots who have quietly been accused of it, even if all that makes the news is that a player transferred.

As to Izzo, which I considered "crossing the line" - Geno defends him. So, who's to say, I have never coached anyone.
 
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Please read the article about Geno's and the other Final Four coaches. Geno is saying what I was trying to say, only much better. If you don't agree, that's fine....

As to Izzo, which I considered "crossing the line" - Geno defends him. So, who's to say, I have never coached anyone.
Geno's take is Izzo's players love him, would go through wall for him, aren't complaining:

~ Players still love you & come back for more - OK
~ Players feel abused - Not OK
 

DefenseBB

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Geno's take is Izzo's players love him, would go through wall for him, aren't complaining:

~ Players still love you & come back for more - OK
~ Players feel abused - Not OK
Izzo is a complete jackwagon! Look at his comments about the whole Nassar abuse case. He doesn't get it, never will. Yes, he can coach basketball but I do not think he is a guy I would ever want to have a beer with. or try to have a respectful dialogue with. Coaches defending coaches is the norm but we all saw what Izzo did and then how he justified it-IT WAS WRONG!

I defy anyone to do that in an office or in a class room and see what happens to your job. That's the complete irony here-they're supposed to be educators! We seem to think "coaching" sports is ok to verbally harangue young people-it isn't. There are plenty of other ways to properly coach up players. So let's parse critiquing vs. out right criticism vs. demeaning comments.
Critiquing-Absolutely,
Criticizing-probably never,
Demeaning-lose your job.

Don't like my comments-go talk to HR and report me! :rolleyes:
 
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Don't like my comments-go talk to HR and report me! :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Critiquing-Absolutely,
Criticizing-probably never,
Demeaning-lose your job.


The problem is the lines between those things have shifted --- and where those lines should land is totally subjective.

Criticizing, probably never ???? ----that in itself defines the problem --- the inability to take and assess criticism has become a lost life skill.

Forget about athletics --- just in the general classroom environment ---- Critiquing, if it makes the subject "uncomfortable" is automatically interpreted as demeaning today. And if it makes a parent uncomfortable its a capital crime.
 
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Yikes.


She has been coaching for how long and all of a sudden she is saying these things? Something does not add up, either she has lost her mind or things got lost in translation or a mutiny has occurred. Hopefully the investigation clears things up.
 

oldude

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She has been coaching for how long and all of a sudden she is saying these things? Something does not add up, either she has lost her mind or things got lost in translation or a mutiny has occurred. Hopefully the investigation clears things up.
Evidently this originated with the parents of at least 6 players. The most serious charges imo relate to Hatchell forcing players to compete while injured. The alleged injuries include a concussion, a torn knee tendon and a shoulder injury requiring surgery.
 

UConnCat

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As administrators make hiring decisions let's not forget basic decency.

Sylvia Hatchell, the University of North Carolina’s Hall of Fame women’s basketball coach and one of most revered figures in the sport, is under investigation over allegations that she made a series of racially offensive remarks — including one suggesting her players would get “hanged from trees with nooses” at an upcoming game if their performance didn’t improve — and that she tried to force players to compete through serious injuries, according to interviews with seven people with knowledge of the investigation, including six parents of current players.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...2f46684196e_story.html?utm_term=.fb0b347dab2d
 

Plebe

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Evidently this originated with the parents of at least 6 players. The most serious charges imo relate to Hatchell forcing players to compete while injured. The alleged injuries include a concussion, a torn knee tendon and a shoulder injury requiring surgery.
I don't think we can draw that conclusion. The Washington Post cites "interviews with with seven people with knowledge of the investigation, including six parents of current players" as its source for the article, but this doesn't necessarily mean those six parents initiated the complaints to UNC administration.
 
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