Schools' Realignment Worths

[FfldCntyFan]

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

The Big East was a victim of bad TV contracts that resulted from the fact that Miami was one more Luther Campbell interview away from the death penalty when the Big East signed its TV deal in the mid 90's. That, together with the fact that BC was mired in a gambling scandal, Nehlen was running out the string at WVU, and Pitt, Rutgers and Temple were all terrible in football, was what cost the Big East. That TV contract was deservedly terrible, and the conference never recovered.

Basketball was carrying the league back then, and even hoops was suffering. Thompson was getting old, Lappas was not the answer at Villanova, and basically UConn, Syracuse and to a lesser extent St. Johns were carrying the league. Miami, VTech and BC were attendance and ratings poison for the league.

That bad 90's deal left the league vulnerable to a raid in 2003, which lead to another bad TV deal, which lead to the final demise.

I realize that your dream is for UConn to give up on football and return to where we play Seton Hall and Providence home and home in men's basketball every year but this is clouding your judgement. The simple fact is the no school that was already in a major conference would have considered moving to the BE and when other major conferences were expanding, not one considered adding the likes of Georgetown, Villanova or St John's. The hybrid BE model was never sustainable.

 

[TerryD]

There are die hard fans that live in the area. That is absolutely correct. No doubt that ND has a very solid and passionate fan base around the campus and in major cities where there are a lot of alumni like New York City and Chicago. However, the ratings on TV are mostly because of hype for games and prime time spots. I live in the Boston area and have never met a ND fan that does not have a direct connection to the school. One would think Boston could be a place where ND would be popular because of the Irish Catholic connection and no natural college football team to root for but a very passionate football fan base (it's just a fact for BC unfortunately. i rooted for them growing up and it was embarrassing because the fan support was so bad) There's going to be basically no support in places where college football is big and there are major state schools to root for. There are plenty of eye balls watching ND play because people love college football and ND is on prime time against many good opponents, but they are not fans of ND. Again, ND is special because of the TV network connection. I'm not saying that if they lose that than they fall off the face of the earth. I'm saying they will drop back into the 2nd tier of teams with very good local fan support and tradition. ND has disadvantages like being a small religious affiliated school and fairly isolated in a cold environment. So recruiting will be tougher for them in a lot of ways than USC, Miami, or Texas. That doesn't mean that tradition, fan support, and academics won't draw recruits. However, you would have to be extremely optimistic to think ND could compete on equal ground with the top 10 teams in the country. It is well documented that recruits choose ND because of the TV exposure they get. It's obvious why a recruit would still choose ND if they were a part of the big 10 over schools like UConn, Wake forest, or even Indiana. But why would they choose ND over Michigan or Stanford? Its seems like Michigan and Stanford can offer everything ND can, but also give a different college experience that most athletes would prefer. This transition wouldn't' happen over night. There would still be about 5 years after joining a conference that ND would enjoy their advantages, but that would begin to fade soon after.

Sorry, but those are a lot of typed words to be so fundamentally wrong.

Are you trying to convince yourself?

ND was special and popular before television existed and will be for a very long time in the future, conference affiliation or not.

I have seen and heard this kind of stuff my whole life (I am 56), yet ND is still very popular and very financially successful.

ND recruits well, but not because it is on NBC. Funny, I keep hearing that ND's advantage there has been eroded because today "everyone is on TV", yet ND keeps signing highly rated classes.

Most kids talk about academics, tradition and the good feeling they get when they visit the campus when they commit to ND, more so than mentioning the NBC deal.

Those 80,975 folks who travel from all over the country to see ND play don't do so because ND has an NBC contract.

Local fan support has very little to do with ND's ratings, attendance, leading apparel contract or other barometers of success.

Neither does alumni support. It is the support of multi-generational (mostly) Catholic families around the country that pass on their loyalty and love of ND to their kids and grandkids.

My Irish born, emigrant grandfather who ended up a coal miner near Pittsburgh became an ND fan when the Irish beat Army in 1913. Every member of my very large, extended family have been fans of Notre Dame ever since.

100 years, everyone, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, cousins, grandchildren, you name it.

My parents went to an ND game for their honeymoon in 1939. My brother started his letters home from South Vietnam in the fall of 1966 with the question "How did the Irish do?"

My nephew serving in Afghanistan last year got ND gear sent to him there to outfit the Afghan National Police he was training and serving with.

His daughter is 16 and is a huge ND fan, despite living in Alabama (next to Fort Benning) for most of her life. They now live near Fort Lewis, Washington and my nephew flies an ND flag from his house and has an ND sticker on his bumper.

Go to any ND home game and check the license plates of the cars in the parking lots. Check the number of private planes from all over the country.

I graduated from LSU Law School. My two sons graduated from LSU's School of Engineering. We don't like LSU athletics, will not travel eight miles to watch LSU play but will drive 1000 miles to attend an ND home game.

My oldest son and I are driving 7 hours from Baton Rouge to San Antonio this weekend to see ND play teams like Santa Clara and Gonzaga in baseball at the annual "Irish Classic" that ND sponsors there every spring.

We will drive past Alex Box Stadium where LSU plays baseball, about eight miles from my house. No interest in seeing the Tigers, but I and my family members drive to San Antonio, Corpus Christi and Houston to see ND baseball.

We get 14-18 family members from Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, Pennsylvania and Maryland to travel to an ND home football game every other year. We meet up and rent a house near the stadium for the weekend.

Families like mine exist all over the country.

That popularity and loyalty is present from coast to coast and would not "fade soon after" if ND joined the ACC in football. It is ingrained.


P.S. You don't think that ABC/ESPN would nationally televise most/all ND football games if it joined the ACC?

You don't think that maybe the ACC would agree to carve out the NBC contract if ND ever agreed to play eight or nine ACC games per year?

 

[Rondogg]

I fricken hate ND for every reason you just mentioned. You have no affiliation at all with the school but you root for them because your family conditioned you to. Way to think for yourselves (slow golf clap)!

 

[TerryD]

I fricken hate ND for every reason you just mentioned. You have no affiliation at all with the school but you root for them because your family conditioned you to. Way to think for yourselves (slow golf clap)!

I have a 100 year family affiliation with ND. I can think for myself just fine, thanks.

I don't think that "affiliation" is limited to alumni status. Does UConn reject all non-alumni fans? Bar them from the games? Refuse their ticket and apparel money? Blackout their televisions?

My guess is that UConn would love to have the number and geographic location of those "unaffiliated" fans that ND does.

I don't believe in states' rights, which I think died at Appomattox. I never got the whole "state pride" thing. I was born and raised in Pennsylvania, but always disliked Joe Paterno and Penn State, even way back to about 1968 or so.

 

[Rondogg]

You and your family blindly follow marching orders given to you 100 years ago and yet you "think for yourself"? Do you realize how dumb that sounds?

 

[billybud]

Jeez...such uninformed posts....75% of the football fans of most big name football schools (Bama, FSU, Notre Dame, USC, Michigan) never spent an hour in class on campus.

They are fans of the school for other reasons...

 

[WestHartHusk]

I hate ND because their benhavior as an athletic institution is so anti-thetical to their professed values as a university.

Go to their website and you will see that their goal is to build "an authetic human community graced by the 'Spirit of Christ'" through service and community flowing from the vision of . Yet through every action it is clear that ND only cares about the 'ND community' and its exceptionalism that we must all accept. An exceptionalism, Terry's protestation notwithstanding, that was built by the religious/commercial approval of Irish Roman Catholics and the newspapers (and now cable) that supported them.

The only action that the ND exceptionalists even attempt to point to as a show of benevolence is their annual game with Navy. Of course, the professed reason for the game is that the Navy single-handedly saved ND from bankruptcy during WWII by establishing a training center at ND. But that belies what is probably the truth - it keeps ND in good graces with the government should they need to be bailed out again, and it provides them a game in the D.C. area. Of course, the game has never actually been played at Navy's school, go figure.

 

[Rondogg]

Jeez...such uninformed posts....75% of the football fans of most big name football schools (Bama, FSU, Notre Dame, USC, Michigan) never spent an hour in class on campus.

They are fans of the school for other reasons...

Yes but nothing as dumb as following a team for 100 years because your family told you to and then claim to be able to think for yourself! I never took a class at UConn (USCe Grad) but they are my favorite team because I chose them, not because someone 100 years told me to.

 

[Irishfan]

I fricken hate ND for every reason you just mentioned. You have no affiliation at all with the school but you root for them because your family conditioned you to. Way to think for yourselves (slow golf clap)!

As a long time ND fan I have to say that my favorite type of football fan is TerryD. One who loves ND for no apparent reason. My second favorite type of football fan is Rondogg. One who hates ND for no apparent reason. These two are wonderful examples as to why it is fun to be an ND fan. I can go just about anywhere in the country during football season and end up in a conversation regarding ND football. Not many teams generate that much passion going either way. Which could be why the Big Ten, ACC and the Big 12 all want us.

Thanks to both of you. (and any of you who fall into either camp)

 

[WestHartHusk]

As a long time ND fan I have to say that my favorite type of football fan is TerryD. One who loves ND for no apparent reason. My second favorite type of football fan is Rondogg. One who hates ND for no apparent reason. These two are wonderful examples as to why it is fun to be an ND fan. I can go just about anywhere in the country during football season and end up in a conversation regarding ND football. Not many teams generate that much passion going either way. Which could be why the Big Ten, ACC and the Big 12 all want us.

Thanks to both of you. (and any of you who fall into either camp)

Those four lines made me laugh at my computer.

 

[billybud]

LOL

And ain't that so true....

A polarizer....but I find the same thing about Bama...folks love 'em, or hate 'em.

 

[tzznandrew]

I fricken hate ND for every reason you just mentioned. You have no affiliation at all with the school but you root for them because your family conditioned you to. Way to think for yourselves (slow golf clap)!

Wait, your father didn't condition you to love UConn, or any other team for that matter?

If you didn't attend or play for your favorite school/team, your devotion is ultimately arbitrary, and usually related to where you're born...which is, of course, your parents' decision.

I'm a UConn, Celtics, Mets fan entirely because that's what my dad watched, and so that's what I watched. Some things change; my dad was raised Catholic, and so pulled for Notre Dame, but as UConn went DI and he saw what they were doing to the BE, he turned on them. I haven't quite turned on them as much, but I don't pull for them at all, anymore, unless they're playing a team like Alabama.

 

[TerryD]

You and your family blindly follow marching orders given to you 100 years ago and yet you "think for yourself"? Do you realize how dumb that sounds?

Jeez, I have two degrees and have successfully practiced law for 27 years. I believe that I possess adequate critical thinking skills.

It would have been the easiest thing in the world to be an LSU fan in Baton Rouge. My Firm even represents the Tiger Athletic Foundation. Luxury box ticket availability, tailgating, all of my friends and co-workers are die hard LSU fans. I could have fallen in line with everyone else here.

I looked at everything and rejected the idea of becoming an LSU fan, on my own, using my own powers of reasoning. It is a difficult thing to be an ND fan in LSU country. But, I could not see myself rooting for the Tigers. I chose to remain an ND fan. Sorry if that bothers you (actually, no, I am not).

I get to decide who to root for. I don't care who you root for, or why. It is none of my business, just like who I root for is none of yours.

 

[billybud]

Heck...certain folks probably would cheer for the University of Tehran before Notre Dame.

Those pesky Irish...and catholic to boot.

 

[TerryD]

I hate ND because their benhavior as an athletic institution is so anti-thetical to their professed values as a university.

Go to their website and you will see that their goal is to build "an authetic human community graced by the 'Spirit of Christ'" through service and community flowing from the vision of . Yet through every action it is clear that ND only cares about the 'ND community' and its exceptionalism that we must all accept. An exceptionalism, Terry's protestation notwithstanding, that was built by the religious/commercial approval of Irish Roman Catholics and the newspapers (and now cable) that supported them.

The only action that the ND exceptionalists even attempt to point to as a show of benevolence is their annual game with Navy. Of course, the professed reason for the game is that the Navy single-handedly saved ND from bankruptcy during WWII by establishing a training center at ND. But that belies what is probably the truth - it keeps ND in good graces with the government should they need to be bailed out again, and it provides them a game in the D.C. area. Of course, the game has never actually been played at Navy's school, go figure.

Navy makes more money having "home" games with ND at places like Fed Ex Field than if they played at Annapolis. Ask Navy if they decide where to play ND for their home games or if ND puts a gun to their head.

Hey, does Army play Navy at Annapolis for at some other venues?

 

[Rondogg]

"I get to decide who to root for."

Um, no you don't. Did you, independant of any family loyalties, decide that ND was who you were going to root for? Nope. And rooting for LSU was not an option because of those same family loyalties. You can lie to yourself all you want but you had no control in rooting for ND, that decision was made 100 years ago.

And I also don't care who you root for but at least be honest with yourself as to how you arrived an ND fan, as a lemming.

 

[TerryD]

"I get to decide who to root for."

Um, no you don't. Did you, independant of any family loyalties, decide that ND was who you were going to root for? Nope. And rooting for LSU was not an option because of those same family loyalties. You can lie to yourself all you want but you had no control in rooting for ND, that decision was made 100 years ago.

And I also don't care who you root for but at least be honest with yourself as to how you arrived an ND fan, as a lemming.

Lol, I am a Pittsburgh a Pirates and Steelers fan too. All of my family was/is. They took me to their games when I was a kid, the bastards.

I guess I should be ashamed of my lack of individual consciousness.

Sorry to have hijacked the thread. Later.

 

[Sportsman5]

Sorry, but those are a lot of typed words to be so fundamentally wrong.

Are you trying to convince yourself?

ND was special and popular before television existed and will be for a very long time in the future, conference affiliation or not.

I have seen and heard this kind of stuff my whole life (I am 56), yet ND is still very popular and very financially successful.

ND recruits well, but not because it is on NBC. Funny, I keep hearing that ND's advantage there has been eroded because today "everyone is on TV", yet ND keeps signing highly rated classes.

Most kids talk about academics, tradition and the good feeling they get when they visit the campus when they commit to ND, more so than mentioning the NBC deal.

Those 80,975 folks who travel from all over the country to see ND play don't do so because ND has an NBC contract.

Local fan support has very little to do with ND's ratings, attendance, leading apparel contract or other barometers of success.

Neither does alumni support. It is the support of multi-generational (mostly) Catholic families around the country that pass on their loyalty and love of ND to their kids and grandkids.

My Irish born, emigrant grandfather who ended up a coal miner near Pittsburgh became an ND fan when the Irish beat Army in 1913. Every member of my very large, extended family have been fans of Notre Dame ever since.

100 years, everyone, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, cousins, grandchildren, you name it.

My parents went to an ND game for their honeymoon in 1939. My brother started his letters home from South Vietnam in the fall of 1966 with the question "How did the Irish do?"

My nephew serving in Afghanistan last year got ND gear sent to him there to outfit the Afghan National Police he was training and serving with.

His daughter is 16 and is a huge ND fan, despite living in Alabama (next to Fort Benning) for most of her life. They now live near Fort Lewis, Washington and my nephew flies an ND flag from his house and has an ND sticker on his bumper.

Go to any ND home game and check the license plates of the cars in the parking lots. Check the number of private planes from all over the country.

I graduated from LSU Law School. My two sons graduated from LSU's School of Engineering. We don't like LSU athletics, will not travel eight miles to watch LSU play but will drive 1000 miles to attend an ND home game.

My oldest son and I are driving 7 hours from Baton Rouge to San Antonio this weekend to see ND play teams like Santa Clara and Gonzaga in baseball at the annual "Irish Classic" that ND sponsors there every spring.

We will drive past Alex Box Stadium where LSU plays baseball, about eight miles from my house. No interest in seeing the Tigers, but I and my family members drive to San Antonio, Corpus Christi and Houston to see ND baseball.

We get 14-18 family members from Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, Pennsylvania and Maryland to travel to an ND home football game every other year. We meet up and rent a house near the stadium for the weekend.

Families like mine exist all over the country.

That popularity and loyalty is present from coast to coast and would not "fade soon after" if ND joined the ACC in football. It is ingrained.


P.S. You don't think that ABC/ESPN would nationally televise most/all ND football games if it joined the ACC?

You don't think that maybe the ACC would agree to carve out the NBC contract if ND ever agreed to play eight or nine ACC games per year?

so you're biased a tiny bit? you act as if I said they will fall off the face of the earth and then use a ton of anecdotal evidence to prove your point. Of course the people who travel to go to Notre dame games are going to be the ones obsessed with the team. Talking about the fans you meet at the games traveling far distances and being obsessed with the team does not prove that notre dame has more fan support than the top 10 teams in the country. I also never said they don't have great fan support. I said there are very passionate alumni and other fans and that is why they fill the stadium and will compete with almost every school in the country. all i said is they will have a tough time competing with the TOP 10 TEAMS IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. What I stated was they will fit nicely in the 10-20 range. There actual production on the field over the last 20 years has not been up to par with the best teams in the country, so that's giving them a ton of props. Their NBC deal helps a lot in recruiting and you have to be insane to deny that. If you truly think that winning championships in the FIRST HALF OF THE 20th CENTURY is more of a reason for a 17 year old committing to notre dame than a ton of national exposure than I am scared for your reasoning ability. Do you seriously think a kid is going to say I went there because I will get a lot of exposure when a local newspaper or recruiting site interviews him? Kids always say the same things when interviewed: tradition, fans, academics etc. They are much less likely to say "there wasn't as much competition at running back at Georgia vs Alabama" or "I wanted to play in a conference that would give me more national exposure". However, those things are MAJOR factors in a decision. I am 100% sure of that. I also stated that the media might continue to give them the same attention they do now and in that case losing the exclusive media deal and getting better access to bowls than any other schools wouldn't hurt them very much. The original point is that a poster was curious why notre dame could be ranked below certain teams like wisconsin in conference realignment. I don't think they would be ranked lower than wisconsin in terms of value, but I did state that they will lose advantages that will take them from a to 3 value team out of the top 10. they are 151-94-1 over the last 20 seasons , so based on on field performance they should be like 30-35 in the country, but instead are like 12. That is due to all of the things we stated including fan support, tradition, academics etc. Every rational college football fan that is not extremely biased would agree with me that they would struggle to stay in the top 10 after 5 years of losing the deal unless the media continued to be biased towards them and gave them more attention simply because they are notre dame even if schools from the pac 12 or big 10 were having better seasons.

I will not argue with you any more because I know I am correct and have the backing of just about every unbiased college football fan.

Here's a little anecdotal evidence to close my point on this discussion. I grew up and currently live in the boston area as I have stated before. My grandfather was irish. I have been to bars in boston during notre dame games that are known as notre dame bars with green themes just for the fans and I have NEVER met a notre dame fan who did not have a direct connection to the university. however, i do know plenty of people who do not like notre dame because they get too much exposure based on very little on field production compared to many other college teams. I also know plenty of people who have watched them on TV because they are on prime time against good opponents, but have no interest in seeing notre dame win over the other team unless they bet money on notre dame. To put it into perspective, imagine getting the national exposure of the Yankees or patriots over the last 20 years but not actually producing on the field. Those teams take a TON of flack nationally because fans hate that the media loves them and gives them too much attention. the difference between those teams and notre dame is that those teams have produced tremendously on the field over the last 20 years. People watch notre dame because it is advertised more than any other game each week and is on at prime time or they watch to root AGAINST them because they are "overrated" due to not producing consistently on the field.

 

[Irishfan]

Yes but nothing as dumb as following a team for 100 years because your family told you to and then claim to be able to think for yourself! I never took a class at UConn (USCe Grad) but they are my favorite team because I chose them, not because someone 100 years told me to.

All USC fans hate ND. So I guess I can't really say that you hate ND or no reason.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Navy makes more money having "home" games with ND at places like Fed Ex Field than if they played at Annapolis. Ask Navy if they decide where to play ND for their home games or if ND puts a gun to their head.

Hey, does Army play Navy at Annapolis for at some other venues?

Are you really arguing that ND doesn't dictate where they will play?

All USC fans hate ND. So I guess I can't really say that you hate ND or no reason.

Just an fyi - he said USCe. Not that well known to most, but he is referring to South Carolina. And further FYI - for UConn fans, that is a tongue-in-cheek reference to Rutgers.

 

[Irishfan]

Jeez...such uninformed posts....75% of the football fans of most big name football schools (Bama, FSU, Notre Dame, USC, Michigan) never spent an hour in class on campus.

They are fans of the school for other reasons...

You and Sportsman5 need to hang out together. You say 75% of ND fans have no connection to the school, while he has never met an ND fan without a direct connection to the school.

 

[btstimpy]

P.S. You don't think that ABC/ESPN would nationally televise most/all ND football games if it joined the ACC?

You don't think that maybe the ACC would agree to carve out the NBC contract if ND ever agreed to play eight or nine ACC games per year?

The answer to both of these is yes. ABC would televise the Notre Dame games nationally, and the John Swofford has already said that Notre Dame football can join the ACC fully without disrupting the NBC contract. The ACC would just not be responsible for TV revenue for the Notre Dame home games, and some sort of reduced split for Notre Dame out of the ACC TV revenue would be worked out just as it is being worked out now for the rest of Notre Dame's programs.

 

[Irishfan]

Are you really arguing that ND doesn't dictate where they will play?



Just an fyi - he said USCe. Not that well known to most, but he is referring to South Carolina. And further FYI - for UConn fans, that is a tongue-in-cheek reference to Rutgers.

Seriously, USCe is South Carolina?

 

[Sportsman5]

The answer to both of these is yes. ABC would televise the Notre Dame games nationally, and the John Swofford has already said that Notre Dame football can join the ACC fully without disrupting the NBC contract. The ACC would just not be responsible for TV revenue for the Notre Dame home games, and some sort of reduced split for Notre Dame out of the ACC TV revenue would be worked out just as it is being worked out now for the rest of Notre Dame's programs.

the argument is more about will the major players in college football allow notre dame to maintain independence and have the same access to the football playoff that they currently have. The trends have been to consolidate and change the system to create a smaller playing field among the elite schools. if there are 4 16 team leagues, than the ACC might be the league that dissolves. It's either the big 12 or acc that will be gone. the game will also be changed when TV revenues from Cable start to go way down. If you are familiar with trends in society and marketing, than you know companies are WAY over paying for TV ads. If cable tv as money was to plummet (which is about when and not if) how would that affect the college football landscape? All interesting topics that do not have a definitive answer right now.

 

[Irishfan]

Are you really arguing that ND doesn't dictate where they will play?

Navy plays their home ND and their home Army games at nfl venues. (except when they play in Ireland.)

 

[BC1978]

so you're biased a tiny bit? you act as if I said they will fall off the face of the earth and then use a ton of anecdotal evidence to prove your point. Of course the people who travel to go to Notre dame games are going to be the ones obsessed with the team. Talking about the fans you meet at the games traveling far distances and being obsessed with the team does not prove that notre dame has more fan support than the top 10 teams in the country. I also never said they don't have great fan support. I said there are very passionate alumni and other fans and that is why they fill the stadium and will compete with almost every school in the country. all i said is they will have a tough time competing with the TOP 10 TEAMS IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. What I stated was they will fit nicely in the 10-20 range. There actual production on the field over the last 20 years has not been up to par with the best teams in the country, so that's giving them a ton of props. Their NBC deal helps a lot in recruiting and you have to be insane to deny that. If you truly think that winning championships in the FIRST HALF OF THE 20th CENTURY is more of a reason for a 17 year old committing to notre dame than a ton of national exposure than I am scared for your reasoning ability. Do you seriously think a kid is going to say I went there because I will get a lot of exposure when a local newspaper or recruiting site interviews him? Kids always say the same things when interviewed: tradition, fans, academics etc. They are much less likely to say "there wasn't as much competition at running back at Georgia vs Alabama" or "I wanted to play in a conference that would give me more national exposure". However, those things are MAJOR factors in a decision. I am 100% sure of that. I also stated that the media might continue to give them the same attention they do now and in that case losing the exclusive media deal and getting better access to bowls than any other schools wouldn't hurt them very much. The original point is that a poster was curious why notre dame could be ranked below certain teams like wisconsin in conference realignment. I don't think they would be ranked lower than wisconsin in terms of value, but I did state that they will lose advantages that will take them from a to 3 value team out of the top 10. they are 151-94-1 over the last 20 seasons , so based on on field performance they should be like 30-35 in the country, but instead are like 12. That is due to all of the things we stated including fan support, tradition, academics etc. Every rational college football fan that is not extremely biased would agree with me that they would struggle to stay in the top 10 after 5 years of losing the deal unless the media continued to be biased towards them and gave them more attention simply because they are notre dame even if schools from the pac 12 or big 10 were having better seasons.

I will not argue with you any more because I know I am correct and have the backing of just about every unbiased college football fan.

Here's a little anecdotal evidence to close my point on this discussion. I grew up and currently live in the boston area as I have stated before. My grandfather was irish. I have been to bars in boston during notre dame games that are known as notre dame bars with green themes just for the fans and I have NEVER met a notre dame fan who did not have a direct connection to the university. however, i do know plenty of people who do not like notre dame because they get too much exposure based on very little on field production compared to many other college teams. I also know plenty of people who have watched them on TV because they are on prime time against good opponents, but have no interest in seeing notre dame win over the other team unless they bet money on notre dame. To put it into perspective, imagine getting the national exposure of the Yankees or patriots over the last 20 years but not actually producing on the field. Those teams take a TON of flack nationally because fans hate that the media loves them and gives them too much attention. the difference between those teams and notre dame is that those teams have produced tremendously on the field over the last 20 years. People watch notre dame because it is advertised more than any other game each week and is on at prime time or they watch to root AGAINST them because they are "overrated" due to not producing consistently on the field.

FWIW, I think you are missing the core reality about sports coverage in the media by conflating how good or, in this case, how "elite" a team is with how much coverage/exposure they get in the market.

It is pretty evident that ND has wide brand recognition, and they are are very profitable from a business perspective - and they continue to be so regardless of their performance on the field. NBC agreed to a unique contract with them because they have determined that ND is best able to attract the coast-to-coast viewers on a weekly basis that they require. If that was not the case, they would not have done so as I am quite sure they are not in business to lose money. Why do you think municipalities are so excited when they are able to land a ND game as part of their Shamrock Series? As long as ND continues to have that kind of market pull, they will continue to enjoy lucrative marketing and television deals.

It always amazes me that people get upset by this. On-the-field success is a factor, but the ability to pull in ratings and advertising dollars is what it is all about.

IMO, NBC doesn't give a crap about how many FB fans may "hate" ND - as long as they watch (which the ratings confirm, they do!); that's what will drive the bus.

Does ND leverage this marketing/brand exposure to its maximum advantage? Of course they do!! You don't think Uconn, or Boston College, or FSU, or any other school wouldn't do the EXACT same thing??.

With all due respect, methinks there is a bit of hypocrisy in evidence in this thread.

 

[BC1978]

the argument is more about will the major players in college football allow notre dame to maintain independence and have the same access to the football playoff that they currently have. The trends have been to consolidate and change the system to create a smaller playing field among the elite schools. if there are 4 16 team leagues, than the ACC might be the league that dissolves. It's either the big 12 or acc that will be gone. the game will also be changed when TV revenues from Cable start to go way down. If you are familiar with trends in society and marketing, than you know companies are WAY over paying for TV ads. If cable tv as money was to plummet (which is about when and not if) how would that affect the college football landscape? All interesting topics that do not have a definitive answer right now.

Interesting comments. IMO, though, if your scenario does come true, the conferences with the most to lose might be the ones with separate conference networks. IMO, if the cost of cable to the consumer continues to rise, it is not hard to envision a scenario where consumers in a given market(s) (the majority of which are NOT hard core sports fans of any given team) might revolt over having to pay an extra $12-15 a month - either as an add-on or part of the basic package - just to watch a team/conference that they may only passively follow. Sure, the hard core fans will probably pay the extra dollars, but those numbers could fall well short of the current rosy projections of increased fan viewership often bandied about on boards like this. We shall see.

 

[billybud]

You and Sportsman5 need to hang out together. You say 75% of ND fans have no connection to the school, while he has never met an ND fan without a direct connection to the school.

Yeah...hang out.

Uh huh. With a guy who doesn't use paragraphs?

What would my sainted mother say?

 

[Sportsman5]

Interesting comments. IMO, though, if your scenario does come true, the conferences with the most to lose might be the ones with separate conference networks. IMO, if the cost of cable to the consumer continues to rise, it is not hard to envision a scenario where consumers in a given market(s) (the majority of which are NOT hard core sports fans of any given team) might revolt over having to pay an extra $12-15 a month - either as an add-on or part of the basic package - just to watch a team/conference that they may only passively follow. Sure, the hard core fans will probably pay the extra dollars, but those numbers could fall well short of the current rosy projections of increased fan viewership often bandied about on boards like this. We shall see.

yes. Everything will change drastically. Advertising money is starting to go to and will continue to go to other things than cable TV. The smart business executives realize that people watch TV with at least one device that distracts them during commercials: phone, tablet, laptop. Many people are watching TV with more than 1 of these devices. This is especially true with the 18-35 demographic, which is prime for many sports advertisers. Ads are probably worth between 10-20% of what companies are currently paying because they are reaching only a tiny fraction of people even compared to 10 years ago. This is very set in stone, but what is up in the air is how everything will settle out and will the cable companies adapt and will college sports still pull in similar advertising dollars. I know that money will decrease to some degree, it's just a matter of if it will plummet to the point where it drastically changes the college football landscape. At this point it is unknown how those advertising dollars will be recouped.

and to the point above I do agree that there are a lot of people that watch Notre dame for various reasons, but when they lose the TV deal then many will stop watching is my point. Some will pay extra to watch Notre Dame play no doubt and will buy merchandise and tickets and that is why they will retain a ton of value. As I said to the original guy who tried to tear me apart, it's not as if I said they will fall off the face of the earth by any means. For a school with a tiny alumni base relatively speaking they will be able to add a lot of value in various ways due to many factors we keep mentioning. However, there might be some California, Texas, BIG 10 or SEC schools that have more value.

 

[Irishfan]

My biggest issue with the list of the most valuable teams given in the original post is that it was prepared by a Michigan fan and guess what, Michigan is the most valuable team. Also 6 of the top 15 teams just happen to be from the Big Ten. Alabama doesn't make the top 20, but Minnesota, california, and Michigan State do. I just don't see this as accurately giving the value of these top teams.