Rutgers Role in the Big Ten

[SouthronCross]

Ralph Sampson is one of the few 3 time NCAA players of the year. You can call that overrated if you like. But it's a rather unique individual accomplishment. Kinda like winning the Heisman three times. He didn't win any titles other than NIT. But I think Terry Holland bears more responsibility for that than Ralph Sampson.

He might've won it three times, but, it damn sure wasn't because he was the best player.

And yes, Terry Holland was why he and UVA underachieved so badly.

 

[btstimpy]

He might've won it three times, but, it damn sure wasn't because he was the best player.

And yes, Terry Holland was why he and UVA underachieved so badly.

Ralph Sampson on UVA was like Lebron James on the Cleveland Cavaliers. He didn't have much supporting cast at all. In fact I don't know if any of his supporting cast at UVA ever made it in the NBA other than Rick Carlisle on Boston as a bench player. The other teams in the ACC had to design defenses just to slow Ralph Sampson down. Few could. He played entire front courts from other teams by himself. In UNC's case Ralph Sampson would play 1 on 3 against one of UNC's front courts of Sam Perkins, James Worthy, and Michael Jordan and either beat them straight up or lose barely do to gimmicks that Dean Smith would deploy like stalling the ACC Championship Game for 12 minutes with a 1 point lead just to shorten the game. Those three UNC names are all NBA allstars. To think Ralph Sampson could beat or hold his own against all of them at once makes him a good player in my mind. It did for all of the AP Player of the Year voters too. A strong UVA backcourt helped Ralph, but it wasn't an allstar backcourt.

Terry Holland never could recruit all star players to UVA when he had Ralph Sampson there. He also made a lot of in game coaching mistakes. That's why he bears the responsibility for not winning a championship too. He won a ton of games though.

 

[SouthronCross]

Ralph Sampson on UVA was like Lebron James on the Cleveland Cavaliers. He didn't have much supporting cast at all. In fact I don't know if any of his supporting cast at UVA ever made it in the NBA other than Rick Carlisle on Boston as a bench player. The other teams in the ACC had to design defenses just to slow Ralph Sampson down. Few could. He played entire front courts from other teams by himself. In UNC's case Ralph Sampson would play 1 on 3 against one of UNC's front courts of Sam Perkins, James Worthy, and Michael Jordan and either beat them straight up or lose barely do to gimmicks that Dean Smith would deploy like stalling the ACC Championship Game for 12 minutes with a 1 point lead just to shorten the game. Those three UNC names are all NBA allstars. To think Ralph Sampson could beat or hold his own against all of them at once makes him a good player in my mind. It did for all of the AP Player of the Year voters too. A strong UVA backcourt helped Ralph, but it wasn't an allstar backcourt.

Terry Holland never could recruit all star players to UVA when he had Ralph Sampson there. He also made a lot of in game coaching mistakes. That's why he bears the responsibility for not winning a championship too. He won a ton of games though.

You're not serious.

Do the names Jeff Lamp, Lee Raker, Othell Wilson, Tim Mullen, and, Jim Miller ring a bell? All of them were highly recruited players, with numerous D1 offers apiece. Lamp and Raker were as good as anybody in the ACC during their last two seasons. Wilson was one of the most underrated SGs in the country when he was there. Miller and Mullen were solid, if unspectacular.

It was all on Holland, who was the most overrated HC in ACC history.

 

[btstimpy]

You're not serious.

Do the names Jeff Lamp, Lee Raker, Othell Wilson, Tim Mullen, and, Jim Miller ring a bell? All of them were highly recruited players, with numerous D1 offers apiece. Lamp and Raker were as good as anybody in the ACC during their last two seasons. Wilson was one of the most underrated SGs in the country when he was there. Miller and Mullen were solid, if unspectacular.

It was all on Holland, who was the most overrated HC in ACC history.

Those names ring a bell with me, sure. But I'm not sure any of them ring an NBA bell or to anyone not living in that era. You miss Ricly Stokes, Kentan Edelin, and, Jeff Jones. I don't think Terry Holland was overrated. I think he stunk. You are listing the UVA stars, but none that you list made any waves in the NBA. Ralph single handed beat the allstars that UNC had (Michael Jordan, Sam Perkins, James Worthy) by himself. He lost to Al Wood in the final four as a sophomore because Al Wood caught fire in the tournament that year. But Ralph Sampson deserved every award he got.

 

[bingethinker]

Something is wrong with the alumni support and fundraising.

You're spot on with this. Maryland did recently hire a new ED of the Terrapin Club and made organizational and workflow changes as it relates to Development, so maybe giving will increase.

 

[btstimpy]

My emphasis is on the Director's Cup finishes and health of the athletic department financially. Virginia right now sponsors 25 sports. I'd like to see UVA add some more. The highest we've been able to achieve in the Director's Cup is #3 a few years ago. I'd like to see UVA win it. Stanford seems to have a stranglehold on it.

Louisville sponsors 22 sports that the ACC sponsors. That's a good fit. UConn sponsors 23 sports that the ACC sponsors which is also a good fit. Both also make an effort to be competitive in all their sports too. I like that. I don't want schools that only go through the motions either. We have some baseball programs in the league that seem to be doing this. Maryland is one of them. That's not good. Duke was doing it in football. But the new Athletic Director and Coach have decided to up their game in football. That's good for the league.

Maryland used to sponsor all 25 sports that the ACC sponsors. Now they are down to 18 because they can't run a successful athletic department of the size they were trying to. Is Maryland a fit? Sure they've been here for 60 years. But Louisville and UConn are both now better fits because Louisville and UConn would have better league participation. This is what I emphasize. I'm not the guy who only cares about football or even basketball.

Given that I place emphasis on the Director's Cup, I'm pleased so far. I know it's very short lived because Mike London can't coach his way out of a paper bag, and Stanford is having a good football season. Swimming and Tennis to follow. But I'll gloat for a couple of weeks. Congratulations to UConn for a top 20 fall finish.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools...pdf/2013-14/misc_non_event/Dec19DIRelease.pdf

 

[DarthGrumpy]

As a FYI, I saw Rutgers mouse pads, flags, and other merchandise for sale at a Marden's in central Maine today. For those who have never been to a Marden's, think of sub-basement bargain place several slots before Ocean State Job Lot and that type. Great for hardware and stuff; but, I do not touch their food and certain clothes items. No idea how Rutgers wound-up there; but, it was worth a laugh.

 

[babysheep]

I guess they treat their merch like they treat their football tickets....just give it away to whoever will take it

 

[btstimpy]

If you mean Baltimore, you are correct. If you mean DC, you are incorrect.

Well they certainly don't capture Annapolis. Only 30,000 showed up for Maryland's bowl game in the State of Maryland yesterday. Half of those were Marshall fans. That stadium seats 38,000. That was Temple Football like support. Maybe it was the long drive from DC to Annapolis that scared them away.

 

[Adios]

So...when we getting invited to the ACC? The Midwest is becoming rural.

 

[BoatShow]

So PC won a women's cross country title? Put it next to the fencing one on the trophy nightstand!

 

[CL82]

Louisville is not in the ACC. The conditions of the law suit are independent of Louisville. The lawsuit is about the Contract Maryland is party to with the ACC. The Exit Fee is a term that Maryland is bound by, and they will be held to.

Sorry, it's been a while since I looked at this thread...

If the ACC did not suffer any economic harm, and in fact actually benefitted from Maryland's departure, then they won't be awarded damages. Now Maryland might just settle to speed things along, but that number won't approach $50M. Not by a long shot.

 

[SouthronCross]

Sorry, it's been a while since I looked at this thread...

If the ACC did not suffer any economic harm, and in fact actually benefitted from Maryland's departure, then they won't be awarded damages. Now Maryland might just settle to speed things along, but that number won't approach $50M. Not by a long shot.

I agree that the ACC will not get $50M from Maryland. Probably not even close.

But, Maryland's departure from the ACC, and, Louisville's addition, are two entirely different scenarios.

In UMD's case, its about whether or not certain legal protocols were properly followed.

 

[billybud]

The withholding of Maryland's money for 2013-14 is just a deterrent ....The Terps are running their athletic department without any conference disbursements. That is why the ACC is playing hardball.

The message is being sent.

Louisville was a better add then Maryland was a loss....but it is a statement of principle to use any method to punish the Terps.

1...Hold all normal disbursements to Maryland...check.

2...Sue the effers...check

3...Refuse a basketball schedule with draw games against UNC and Duke...check.

4...Refuse to pay bowl expenses and travel...check

5...Throw a giant "Good Riddance Maryland...Welcome Louisville party...check

 

[SouthronCross]

The withholding of Maryland's money for 2013-14 is just a deterrent ....The Terps are running their athletic department without any conference disbursements. That is why the ACC is playing hardball.

The message is being sent.

Louisville was a better add then Maryland was a loss....but it is a statement of principle to use any method to punish the Terps.

1...Hold all normal disbursements to Maryland...check.

2...Sue the effers...check

3...Refuse a basketball schedule with draw games against UNC and Duke...check.

4...Refuse to pay bowl expenses and travel...check

5...Throw a giant "Good Riddance Maryland...Welcome Louisville party...check

Plus, no home football games against any Tobacco Road schools as well.

 

[upstater]

Louisville was a better add then Maryland was a loss....but it is a statement of principle to use any method to punish the Terps.

You really don't believe this, do you?

1. Maryland's TV market is 6x > Louisville's
2. Football and basketball talent in Baltimore, DC and Md > Louisville's

It astounds me that anyone would put Louisville over Maryland.

When Delany came calling, he didn't invite Louisville to the B1G, he invited Maryland. There's a reason for that. Loaded recruiting area in both sports, more NFL football players come out of Maryland, much bigger market. AND, it's the #1 state school, in the AAU!

 

[DarthGrumpy]

You really don't believe this, do you?

1. Maryland's TV market is 6x > Louisville's
2. Football and basketball talent in Baltimore, DC and Md > Louisville's

It astounds me that anyone would put Louisville over Maryland.

When Delany came calling, he didn't invite Louisville to the B1G, he invited Maryland. There's a reason for that. Loaded recruiting area in both sports, more NFL football players come out of Maryland, much bigger market. AND, it's the #1 state school, in the AAU!

...and while Louisville is a hot name in college sports right now, especially in basketball and football, while Maryland has fallen on hard financial times due to questionable leadership, Maryland is the historically stronger sports program across het board. B1G = long term view. ACC = short-term view.

 

[btstimpy]

You really don't believe this, do you?

1. Maryland's TV market is 6x > Louisville's
2. Football and basketball talent in Baltimore, DC and Md > Louisville's

It astounds me that anyone would put Louisville over Maryland.

When Delany came calling, he didn't invite Louisville to the B1G, he invited Maryland. There's a reason for that. Loaded recruiting area in both sports, more NFL football players come out of Maryland, much bigger market. AND, it's the #1 state school, in the AAU!

You would think with all that going on Maryland could help sell out the Naval Academy's stadium of 38,000 for a bowl game in Annapolis, MD. But they didn't. It's a big TV market looking at the Redskins, Ravens, Nationals, Orioles, Wizards, and Capitals. I can't imagine anyone wants to still look at the Redskins anymore, but they do. They sell out that stadium with people wanting to watch that crap.

 

[billybud]

You really don't believe this, do you?

1. Maryland's TV market is 6x > Louisville's
2. Football and basketball talent in Baltimore, DC and Md > Louisville's

It astounds me that anyone would put Louisville over Maryland.

When Delany came calling, he didn't invite Louisville to the B1G, he invited Maryland. There's a reason for that. Loaded recruiting area in both sports, more NFL football players come out of Maryland, much bigger market. AND, it's the #1 state school, in the AAU!

And it astounds me that you believe that Maryland had any football market. The AAU thing was probably operative...but doesn't really matter in an athletic conference.

ESPN pays the bills...and Louisville has been the highest metered ESPN watching market for all six of the last six years....Maryland? nope.

Maryland has been a dull and dying football program with meager fan support and no national following.

Who cares about NFL football players out of Maryland? Did they help Maryland? New York has more guys in the pros, and nobody much outside of Cuse counts on New York as their talent hotbed. NY hasn't done much for Rutgers..

Louisville adds energy...adds a good football and basketball team and a pretty good baseball team. Maryland was a preseason MAIL IN FOOTBALL WIN...2-19 against the Noles. A snoozer of an opponent.

Good riddance....I was ready years ago for the Terps to hit the road.

 

[upstater]

And it astounds me that you believe that Maryland had any football market. The AAU thing was probably operative...but doesn't really matter in an athletic conference.

ESPN pays the bills...and Louisville has been the highest metered ESPN watching market for all six of the last six years....Maryland? nope.

Maryland has been a dull and dying football program with meager fan support and no national following.

Who cares about NFL football players out of Maryland? Did they help Maryland? New York has more guys in the pros, and nobody much outside of Cuse counts on New York as their talent hotbed. NY hasn't done much for Rutgers..

Louisville adds energy...adds a good football and basketball team and a pretty good baseball team. Maryland was a preseason MAIL IN FOOTBALL WIN...2-19 against the Noles. A snoozer of an opponent.

Good riddance....I was ready years ago for the Terps to hit the road.

No matter how many times we answer what you've written (such as your ridiculous highest metered market point) you ignore it, so I'll ignore you.

 

[billybud]

Fine....ignore me.

But what have you offered up other than your opinion? I get it that you don't like Louisville

You have no answers for my rebuttal...other than..."I can not argue with you using facts so I'll ignore you."

Huge Maryland market? LOL OK....but not operable.

NFL guys from Maryland...Oh God....LOL...

A bunch of laughable, unsupported, crapola......

I'd ignore me too rather than reply with such.

 

[The Viking]

The withholding of Maryland's money for 2013-14 is just a deterrent ....The Terps are running their athletic department without any conference disbursements. That is why the ACC is playing hardball.

The message is being sent.

Louisville was a better add then Maryland was a loss....but it is a statement of principle to use any method to punish the Terps.

1...Hold all normal disbursements to Maryland...check.

2...Sue the effers...check

3...Refuse a basketball schedule with draw games against UNC and Duke...check.

4...Refuse to pay bowl expenses and travel...check

5...Throw a giant "Good Riddance Maryland...Welcome Louisville party...check

It is ironic that the dirtiest conference in America when it comes to raids is doing all this b*tching about Maryland wanting to move on.
Should I also assume that BC and Syracuse have asked to remove their fingerprints from any part of this lawsuit?

 

[SouthronCross]

It is ironic that the dirtiest conference in America when it comes to raids is doing all this b*tching about Maryland wanting to move on.
Should I also assume that BC and Syracuse have asked to remove their fingerprints from any part of this lawsuit?

Would we still be the dirtiest conference if we'd invited you back in 2011, instead of either Pitt or 'Cuse? I bet not.

Your own former hypocritical piece of dirt commissioner, Mike Tranghese, tried to sell Big East football down the river as far back as 1999. That NEVER gets mentioned. Then, when Swofford did make his move on the BE, he is all of a sudden the worst human being on earth?

That makes no sense.

None of us here are griping about UMD leaving. We want them to meet their legal obligations to the league first, before they go.

 

[btstimpy]

It is ironic that the dirtiest conference in America when it comes to raids is doing all this b*tching about Maryland wanting to move on.
Should I also assume that BC and Syracuse have asked to remove their fingerprints from any part of this lawsuit?

The only people I've seen b*tching about Maryland moving on are Maryland fans and traditional Big Ten fans. You won't see any b*tching from anywhere else. But most ACC fans believe that Maryland should respect the bylaws that it created just as Rutgers should and many others like Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, and even WVU have done. WVU as a negotiated settlement.

 

[The Viking]

The only people I've seen b*tching about Maryland moving on are Maryland fans and traditional Big Ten fans. You won't see any b*tching from anywhere else. But most ACC fans believe that Maryland should respect the bylaws that it created just as Rutgers should and many others like Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, and even WVU have done. WVU as a negotiated settlement.

Why is your conference treating them with vitriol on their way out the door?

 

[The Viking]

Would we still be the dirtiest conference if we'd invited you back in 2011, instead of either Pitt or 'Cuse? I bet not.

Your own former hypocritical piece of dirt commissioner, Mike Tranghese, tried to sell Big East football down the river as far back as 1999. That NEVER gets mentioned. Then, when Swofford did make his move on the BE, he is all of a sudden the worst human being on earth?

That makes no sense.

None of us here are griping about UMD leaving. We want them to meet their legal obligations to the league first, before they go.

Well the real answer is yes, Swofford would still be a bloody conference murderer doing his business in the still of the night. Now I likely wouldn't complain much about it if UConn was selected...even though my ultimate preference throughout would be that the free states stay in the BE and the slave states stay united in the ACC the way Jefferson Davis preferred.

 

[The Viking]

Would we still be the dirtiest conference if we'd invited you back in 2011, instead of either Pitt or 'Cuse? I bet not.

Your own former hypocritical piece of dirt commissioner, Mike Tranghese, tried to sell Big East football down the river as far back as 1999. That NEVER gets mentioned. Then, when Swofford did make his move on the BE, he is all of a sudden the worst human being on earth?

That makes no sense.

None of us here are griping about UMD leaving. We want them to meet their legal obligations to the league first, before they go.

Is it pretty much assumed that the ACC is ironclad in this 50 million exit fee? That's what Maryland is fighting - the amount, correct? Correct me if I'm wrong.
It just seems like the ACC is really pissed off at Maryland and I can't imagine it's just the difference between the dollar signs from both sides.
Let's be honest please. The ACC is butthurt that the B1G and Maryland have done to them what they have done so well to the BE. Steal a team in darkness when everyone is asleep. And I'm sure it hurts Swoffords ego that one of his schools doesn't want to be associated with his conference anymore.

 

[SouthronCross]

Well the real answer is yes, Swofford would still be a bloody conference murderer doing his business in the still of the night. Now I likely wouldn't complain much about it if UConn was selected...even though my ultimate preference throughout would be that the free states stay in the BE and the slave states stay united in the ACC the way Jefferson Davis preferred.

Fair enough. You are honest and consistent about it.

 

[SouthronCross]

Is it pretty much assumed that the ACC is ironclad in this 50 million exit fee? That's what Maryland is fighting - the amount, correct? Correct me if I'm wrong.

The exit fee is in the neighborhood of $52-53M. And yes, UMD is contesting that number. That amount was passed by a 10-2 conference vote, with UMD and FSU voting no.

It just seems like the ACC is really pissed off at Maryland and I can't imagine it's just the difference between the dollar signs from both sides.

Yep, both sides are PO'ed at the other, and, yes, its not just about the money. The exit fee was originally UMD's idea, suggested by their president, Wallace Loh. And, its original amount was approximately $20M. When the rest of the ACC voted to raise the amount to the current $52M, UMD voted no. And, they have maintained that because they voted no, that they should not be bound by it.

The ACC is most PO'ed by UMD participating in conference business all while secretly negotiating with the B1G under a non-disclosure agreement that was possibly in violation of Maryland state law.

Also, in fairness toUMD, they are also claiming that they ACC did not give its members 15 days notice prior to amending the exit fee, which is also an ACC bylaw.

Let's be honest please. The ACC is butthurt that the B1G and Maryland have done to them what they have done so well to the BE. Steal a team in darkness when everyone is asleep. And I'm sure it hurts Swoffords ego that one of his schools doesn't want to be associated with his conference anymore.

OK, since we're being honest here...

The two situations are not entirely similar. Your own former BE commissioner attempted to subvert his own football league a decade and a half ago. When Swofford finally moved on BE teams, he called him, and, the ACC, hypocrits 'for operating in the dark.' Well, what would you call what he did before? It sure wasn't in the BE's best football interests, thats for sure.

I could not care less about UMD, or, their situation. Period. I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of ACC fans would feel the same way. I admit, it does suck a bit for them to leave, since they, UNC, and, NCSU have been conference mates for the past 107 years. But, their dishonesty towards all of us has changed the view of them in this part of the country. Now, its more like, the sooner they are gone, the better.

If they wanted out, they should have been above board about it. Give proper notice, negotiate and then pay the appropriate exit fee, and, simply walk away. But, they weren't above board about it. Which leaves us where we all are now. Who knows how it all might play out?

 

[NickyNewark]

This thread only now with the honesty coming out is refreshing....I wonder if CR is playing out along the lines of the civil war? Amazing after 150 yrs !! Flashpoint....Maryland !!