Rutgers Role in the Big Ten

[baggerbob]

Not only did Pitt voted to keep PSU out of the BE, their president was also the guy who was in charge of negotiating BE's last TV deal. BE turned ESPiN down with Pitt president as the ring leader. Had BE accepted that deal, BE would have been paid $13M to $14M per year per school.

Once BE pissed off ESPiN with threat of taking the TV contract to the open market, it was all over. ESPiN sent its favorite errand boy Swofford to break up the BE by taking SU and PITT in the middle of the night. Swofford is the slimiest commissioner and he knew exactly what he was doing. With uncertainty with the TV deal and the possibility of other BE schools defecting if they did not accept, SU and Pitt accepted ACC's deal in the middle of BE TV contract negotiation. In fact, they torpedoed the whole thing. I have little doubt had BE schools stayed together, they would have got a better deal than what ACC did in the open market. ESPiN worked with the ACC to destroy the BE so they can get media properties at a discount. It is a cut-throat business move for bunch of public universities. I am pretty confident ESPiN used its puppet the ACC to destroy the BE.

We will never know what would have happened had BE accepted that TV deal. With so much distrust between schools, it was easy for ESPiN's favorite errand boy to do its dirty work by played BE schools against each other.

In many ways, we are where we are today with Pitt played a huge role. If there is another school UCONN fans should hate more than BCU and the fruits, it should be SPITT.

Pittsburgh wasn't in the Big East when the vote was taken on Penn St, it was 3 of the basketball schools who voted no, probably Villanova, Georgetown, and St Johns who had the most to lose if Penn St joined.

 

[pj]

UConn and Bama are both "flagships", and CT has about 80% of the population with far more state income than AL, but UConn's politics would never allow to pay a head coach anything close to Saban's salary (which while bad for football fans is probably a smart move for society!), nor invest as many resources into athletics.

Don't see that. UConn gets about 1/3 as many fans in the stadium as Bama, less than 1/3 the TV audience, but pays its coaches 1/3 as much ($1.5 mn + per year for head coach). The investment in basketball and Olympic sports is greater than Bama's. If Connecticut got into college football as ardently as Alabama has, you'd see Connecticut politicians investing heavily in football, and paying our football coach a Bama-like salary. If you're saying the Connecticut public would never get as interested in football as the Alabama public, well, that is likely true, but it's also likely Alabama will never get as interested in basketball as Connecticut.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Rick Perry and most all the bigwigs are A&M grads, and they have put the screws to UT. They are killing funding for UT and are at war with UT's President.

I don't follow politics AT ALL, but wouldn't this hurt their reelection chances, given that a lot of their constituents are likely Texas grads or fans?

 

[upstater]

I don't follow politics AT ALL, but wouldn't this hurt their reelection chances, given that a lot of their constituents are likely Texas grads or fans?

I don't know. But most of the state does not like the politics of Austin, you can bet on that.

 

[WestHartHusk]

I don't follow politics AT ALL, but wouldn't this hurt their reelection chances, given that a lot of their constituents are likely Texas grads or fans?

Perry has known for awhile he is not running again, so he has the leeway to toy with UT (if that is his goal - and some articles I have read suggest it just might be). And don't forget, A&M is in "real" Texas (near Houston); Austin is just a city they haven't invaded yet.

 

[upstater]

Pittsburgh wasn't in the Big East when the vote was taken on Penn St, it was 3 of the basketball schools who voted no, probably Villanova, Georgetown, and St Johns who had the most to lose if Penn St joined.

There was a vote in 1982. Pitt was a member. PSU was also discussed when the BE first formed, around 1978-1979, and that was more of PSU's fault, as it wanted an all-sports conference with BC and Syracuse in it. PSU came back to the table twice after the initial attempts. Once in 1982 formally, and once again in 1988 or 1989 informally (although that was a Paterno claim, he said PSU wanted to join the BE and that they had Maryland "in his back pocket" to join with them, but were turned away when PSU asked for a larger slice of the football pie).

 

[baggerbob]

There was a vote in 1982. Pitt was a member. PSU was also discussed when the BE first formed, around 1978-1979, and that was more of PSU's fault, as it wanted an all-sports conference with BC and Syracuse in it. PSU came back to the table twice after the initial attempts. Once in 1982 formally, and once again in 1988 or 1989 informally (although that was a Paterno claim, he said PSU wanted to join the BE and that they had Maryland "in his back pocket" to join with them, but were turned away when PSU asked for a larger slice of the football pie).

There were 8 voting members at the time Penn State applied, the original 7 Providence, Georgetown, St Johns, Seton Hall, Boston College, UConn, Syracuse, and the 8th member admitted in 1980, Villanova. The vote was 5-3 in favor of adding Penn St, needed one more, after they rejected Penn St, later Pittsburgh was added. Providence, Seton Hall, UConn, would have voted with Boston College, and Syracuse, they had nothing to lose. I suspect it was those 3 schools [ Georgetown, St Johns, Villanova, ] who spread the rumor that Syracuse voted against Penn St, which Mike T later refuted. The later attempts were rejected, because Joe not only wanted more of the revenue, but wanted 2 for 1 football games with the football schools. He was already becoming a mini-dictator.

 

[upstater]

There were 8 voting members at the time Penn State applied, the original 7 Providence, Georgetown, St Johns, Seton Hall, Boston College, UConn, Syracuse, and the 8th member admitted in 1980, Villanova. The vote was 5-3 in favor of adding Penn St, needed one more, after they rejected Penn St, later Pittsburgh was added. Providence, Seton Hall, UConn, would have voted with Boston College, and Syracuse, they had nothing to lose. I suspect it was those 3 schools [ Georgetown, St Johns, Villanova, ] who spread the rumor that Syracuse voted against Penn St, which Mike T later refuted. The later attempts were rejected, because Joe not only wanted more of the revenue, but wanted 2 for 1 football games with the football schools. He was already becoming a mini-dictator.

It all depends on what you're talking about. If you're talking about the initial 5-3 vote, yes Pitt was not there. But they put PSU up informally once again almost immediately, and at that point, even Crouthamel was against them. As well as Pitt. Crouthamel has said as much (even though he keeps that out of his recollection when he wrote the "Big East's mistake" article.

Here's Crouthamel & Paterno:
“Syracuse and a couple other people were all wrapped up in basketball, Big East basketball,” Paterno said at a news conference Tuesday. “I thought I had almost pulled it off.”

Jake Crouthamel, the retired Syracuse athletic director, said: “Why would I agree to that? I’m looking out for my team, not his team.”

Penn State and Syracuse later failed to agree to terms in negotiating a contract after the 1990 season. The Nittany Lions, who play in the 108,000-capacity Beaver Stadium, requested six home games over the 10-year contract. Syracuse wanted an even distribution of home games. Their disagreement served as fitting punctuation for a tenuous relationship.

“Joe didn’t think very highly of me, and that may be putting it mildly,” Crouthamel said in a telephone interview. “And as a result, I didn’t think very highly of Joe and what he was demanding.”

And it wasn't a 2-1. It was a 6-4 annual game. This was in 1990. That was after the BE discussions already fell apart.

Penn State didn't get the deal from Syracuse and Pitt. But Tranghese, AND Syracuse, AND Pitt, offered Miami an even better deal than PSU asked for once Miami was out the door in 2003. They offered Miami $10m a year extra in conference revenue above anyone else's. Miami turned it down. This was a better offer than PSU asked for 15 years prior.

 

[upstater]

This is Tranghese:

We voted five different times and all five times Jake voted for Penn State. And Bill Flynn at Boston College, God rest his soul, voted for Penn State all five times.

There was more than that one vote in 1982. Beano Cook of Pitt is also on record as saying Pitt voted against PSU. When Tranghese speaks of all the votes, he emphasizes that BC and Syracuse always voted to include PSU. Pitt is omitted, and some of those 5 votes happened after Pitt became a member.

 

[SouthronCross]

Interesting you brought that up since both UCONN's President and AD are also from B1G institutions.

I knew about Ms Herbst being from the B1G. What school did Manuel come from?

 

[HawkHusky]

I knew about Ms Herbst being from the B1G. What school did Manuel come from?

Michigan and new Head Coach Diaco is an Iowa alum

WM actually played football for Michigan

 

[SouthronCross]

One of those 'obligations' won't include ponying up $50M but I think that you agree with that.

Yes, we agree. It likely won't be the whole $50M, but, something in the $30M range is my uneducated, uninformed guess.

For what it is worth, I have no objection to the ACC yanking MD around for a while. I also think that Swofford did a good job of keeping his conference intact. I don't begrudge him that at all. I do thinking that the conference moves are reactionary rather than strategic and may cost him in the long run. But in the near term, he did an amazing job.

Louisville was for sure reactionary. It was nonetheless a good pick. If they hire a good new HC for FB, then going forward, they will be fine. Pitt and Syracuse weren't reactionary. Syracuse was a near certainty. I believe we agree here as well. Pitt was a compromise pick over UConn. Again, I like Pitt, but, would've totally prreferred UConn.

Even if we were invited to the ACC tomorrow, which we all know isn't going to happen, I'd still have a lot of bad feelings about being yanked around. That isn't to say that I wouldn't be happy about it, I would.

Completely understandable. Still holding out hope that you will be here soon.

 

[ZooCougar]

Michigan and new Head Coach Diaco is an Iowa alum

WM actually played football for Michigan

I think it's funny that Iowa's coach is a UConn alum, and UConn's coach is an Iowa alum. I wonder how many times that has happened before. It would be cool to play Iowa and watch each HC try to beat their alma mater.

 

[SouthronCross]

The day that the basketball schools in the BE gathered together to keep Penn State out was the day that eventually doomed the Big E because the closed minded fools in Providence could not see what every one saw.

That has always been my thought as well. Leaving Penn State out of the Big East was just crazy.

You northeast FB-playing schools did not need the basketball only schools AT ALL. You all would have been a good all-sports conference that would stand on its own. Heck, that BE might've been able to land Miami and FSU at the same time. Talk about a danged good football league!

 

[ZooCougar]

That has always been my thought as well. Leaving Penn State out of the Big East was just crazy.

You northeast FB-playing schools did not need the basketball only schools AT ALL. You all would have been a good all-sports conference that would stand on its own. Heck, that BE might've been able to land Miami and FSU at the same time. Talk about a danged good football league!

Not adding PSU and not having the strategic foresight to lock in FSU (as Miami's rival) doomed this thing. Honestly, I think the Big East leadership just mailed in that whole effort.

 

[SouthronCross]

All you say may be correct but I'm pretty sure the SC senator with the buggywhip did'nt realize the implications of his actions either back in the day?

[sarcasm]How dare you besmirch the good name of Mr John C Calhoun. Its pistols at 40 paces for you, sir![/sarcasm]

 

[SouthronCross]

Michigan and new Head Coach Diaco is an Iowa alum

WM actually played football for Michigan

Thanks, HH.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

This is pretty far out there, but consider the league that ( not realistically, but couldve been due to independence).

BC, Pitt, WV, Rutgers, UConn, Penn State, VT, Syracuse, Florida State, Miami (10 teams round robin).

FBS programs + Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, PC, SH (16 teams, play every team once, three x two opponents like the old new big east).

Or, if you really wanted to go all in with football, grab Louisville and Cinci and drop the Catholics.

A man can dream right?

 

[UConn Dan]

Interesting you brought that up since both UCONN's President and AD are also from B1G institutions.

I knew about Ms Herbst being from the B1G. What school did Manuel come from?

Susan Herbst probably has more connections to the ACC than the B1G. She's a Dukie first and foremost. And before becoming UConn's president she served as executive vice chancellor and chief academic officer at the University System of Georgia, where she led 15 university presidents and oversaw the academic missions for all 35 public universities in Georgia. Herbst also held a faculty appointment as a professor of public policy at Georgia Tech.

Herbst joined Northwestern University as an assistant professor in 1989 and remained there until 2003. She became Professor of Political Science and Communication Studies in 1999, and eventually chaired the Department of Political Science.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Susan Herbst probably has more connections to the ACC than the B1G. She's a Dukie first and foremost. And before becoming UConn's president she served as executive vice chancellor and chief academic officer at the University System of Georgia, where she led 15 university presidents and oversaw the academic missions for all 35 public universities in Georgia. Herbst also held a faculty appointment as a professor of public policy at Georgia Tech.

Herbst joined Northwestern University as an assistant professor in 1989 and remained there until 2003. She became Professor of Political Science and Communication Studies in 1999, and eventually chaired the Department of Political Science.

Not sure if it matters, but John T. Casteen III who was president of UCONN and UVA. I don't know if he is still connected to UVA or the ACC today.

 

[SouthronCross]

Susan Herbst probably has more connections to the ACC than the B1G. She's a Dukie first and foremost. And before becoming UConn's president she served as executive vice chancellor and chief academic officer at the University System of Georgia, where she led 15 university presidents and oversaw the academic missions for all 35 public universities in Georgia. Herbst also held a faculty appointment as a professor of public policy at Georgia Tech.

Thats two strikes against her already.

Herbst joined Northwestern University as an assistant professor in 1989 and remained there until 2003. She became Professor of Political Science and Communication Studies in 1999, and eventually chaired the Department of Political Science.

Dang, I never knew she was that connected within the ACC, and, the Southeast. I hope it will be a positive for you with the ACC. I am sure it already is with Swofford.

 

[SouthronCross]

Not sure if it matters, but John T. Casteen III who was president of UCONN and UVA. I don't know if he is still connected to UVA or the ACC today.

I am not sure of that myself. That said...

...John Casteen is very well-respected within the ACC. Anything he says about UConn, or any other school, academics within the league will listen.

 

[buddy]

Dang, I never knew she was that connected within the ACC, and, the Southeast. I hope it will be a positive for you with the ACC. I am sure it already is with Swofford.

Unfortunately, those connections were in place when Louisville was selected over UConn, so it doesn't make any difference.

 

[buggsy]

The problem with you is your poor memory. I already said Berkeley says it on its own website. So what are you arguing? That no one disputes that? Here, the ex Chancellor Bergdahl even admits he was told not to use the term flagship to describe Berkeley by his bosses at U. California: http://chancellor.berkeley.edu/chancellors/berdahl/speeches/future-of-flagship-universities



There's a lot out there about UCLA's Chancellor in particular pressuring Berkeley to drop use of the term. Bergdahl does a good job of describing the terms importance and usefulness, and he makes clear that Calfironia has multiple flagships.

Bergdahl argues here that more than one school in a state should have the flagship designation because he sees such schools as being set apart from others as they are research intensive.

The term flagship first popped up in the 1950s with the GI Bill. It didn't exist before then. U. Calfornia reorganized in the 1960's with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Master_Plan_for_Higher_Education. Under this plan, the university's revenues, tuition, budget, etc., was placed under the control of the President of the University of California system. Subsequently, the Berkeley Chancellors were told not to use the term flagship.

As usual buggsy, you're wrong.

Cal-Berkeley call itself the flagship university of the Cal system on it's website. Why the hell would the chancellor let them do that? Why don't any other Universities in California call themselves a flagship of the state?

Do a google search on Cal-Berkeley and Flagship university, and 1,160,000 results come up.....all calling UC Berkely the flagship university of the state of California.

The U.S Govt. calls Berkeley the Flagship U of the state of California.

You say there is no distinction in the Cal system on who is the flagship university, and that Berekeley is merely equal to the other universities and NOT the flagship....yet you would not be able to reference even one article showing UCLA or UCSD or any other university in the state of California referring to itself as the flagship of the state....or a link to any source calling any university BUT Berkeley the flagship university of California.

I can show you 1 million, 160 thousand references to UC Berkeley as the flagship, including the U.S Government's Higher education web site.

Even the Chancellor you quote is on record calling Berkeley the flagship university of California, in that very same article you linked. Hmmm. Why is that?

http://chancellor.berkeley.edu/chancellors/berdahl/speeches/future-of-flagship-universities

Not only are you wrong...as you usually are, but you are embarrassing yourself on this forum....as you usually do when you challenge me.

If there ever was an award for someone that enjoyed being proven wrong....it would be named after you.

I just love showing the rest of the people on this forum that despite how smart you think you are..in reality, you're really are a low-intelligence idiot, at least on this topic.

But for an giggles, please show me on link showing me that other schools in the stystem also consider themselves a flagship university.

I'll be waiting.

 

[Fishy]

I just did a Google search on "Rutgers is a joke" and got approximately 957,000 results in 0.24 seconds.

So...I guess that's been proven.

 

[buggsy]

I just did a Google search on "Rutgers is a joke" and got approximately 957,000 results in 0.24 seconds.

So...I guess that's been proven.

And I just did a search on "UCONN too smalltime for the real conferences" and got 1.35 million results in 1 second.

https://www.google.com/#q=UCONN+too+smalltime+for+the+real+conferences

But we already knew that.

 

[upstater]

Cal-Berkeley call itself the flagship university of the Cal system on it's website. Why the hell would the chancellor let them do that? Why don't any other Universities in California call themselves a flagship of the state?
You are very confused. The Chancellor is the Chancellor of Cal-Berkeley. The President of U. California told them not to do that. Read the link.

Do a google search on Cal-Berkeley and Flagship university, and 1,160,000 results come up.....all calling UC Berkely the flagship university of the state of California.

Read the link.

You say there is no distinction in the Cal system on who is the flagship university, and that Berekeley is merely equal to the other universities and NOT the flagship....yet you would not be able to reference even one article showing UCLA or UCSD or any other university in the state of California referring to itself as the flagship of the state....or a link to any source calling any university BUT Berkeley the flagship university of California.

I didn't say that. The Chancellor of U. California Berkeley said that. His name is Bergdahl. He said UCLA is a flaghsip too. Read the link.

Even the Chancellor you quote is on record calling Berkeley the flagship university of California, in that very same article you linked. Hmmm. Why is that?

The Chancellor makes a case for multiple flagships. Read the link.

Not only are you wrong...as you usually are, but you are embarrassing yourself on this forum....as you usually do when you challenge me.
You are wrong. My initial post said that Cal. Berkeley calls itself the flagship. Why you would spend all this time challenging something we agree on is beyond absurd, and a testament to your stupidity. What I added was that the President of U. California disagrees with that distinction, and beyond that I know that UCLA and San Diego contest it. Bergdahl, much to his credit, goes to great lengths in the speech I gave yuou to talk about the relatively recent origin of the term (relative to the history of land grant and state institutions) and he talks about how, for him, a flagship is essentially a R1 institution, and in his eyes, UCLA is a flagship. Read the link.

Try this next time: try responding to what people write instead of the voices in your head.

 

[UConn9604]

And I just did a search on "UCONN too smalltime for the real conferences" and got 1.35 million results in 1 second.

https://www.google.com/#q=UCONN too smalltime for the real conferences

But we already knew that.

In Connecticut, most of us are fretting that we only beat Harvard by 5 at home last night.

At Rutgers, however, they'd insist that the Empire State Building be lit up in red after a win like that.

 

[btstimpy]

This is pretty far out there, but consider the league that ( not realistically, but couldve been due to independence).

BC, Pitt, WV, Rutgers, UConn, Penn State, VT, Syracuse, Florida State, Miami (10 teams round robin).

FBS programs + Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, PC, SH (16 teams, play every team once, three x two opponents like the old new big east).

Or, if you really wanted to go all in with football, grab Louisville and Cinci and drop the Catholics.

A man can dream right?

If UConn were to join the ACC, you'd have 7 of the names on that top line plus Louisville together. You'd only be missing WV, Rutgers, and Penn State. The 5 Catholics have a different agenda not being FBS football playing schools, so those don't really fit anyway.

Then you would add further representation in Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia along with Notre Dame. That would be a hell of an east coast oriented conference. What a novel idea. Someone ought to consider that.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Coincidentally I did a search Rutgers combined football and men's basketball big east championships and got 1 result and it only took 22 years.