Rutgers Role in the Big Ten

[NickyNewark]

I actually stopped by tonight to offer my congratulations on the new head coach, but I can't resist weighing in on this.

Kennedy, I think, said in effect, "Some people look at what is and say, why? I look at what could be and say, why not?"

Rutgers is an outstanding academic institution. Now there job is to be an outstanding academic institution that also excels in athletics. A Northeast and B1G equivalent of the Stanford or USC in the PAC12, if you will. Tall order? Yes, but those are the expectations and they are doable. Never said easy, just doable. I think Pernetti had the vision; I hope Herman does. That's the vision. With the vision, resources and drive, it is doable. Unfortunately, too many average B1G fans don't see it (yet). At least in part, Delaney sees it--but I think Delaney may not see it all either. Sure, it's about TVs but that is not the end in itself; that is the means to the end. The end, the one that the leaders of the B1G see--beyond Delaney, if you will--is a dominant consortium of universities that uses athletics and the medium of television to draw the research dollars and the best students from all over the east and Midwest.

When UConn comes aboard, you'll be the eastern seaboard flagship school and the close-proximity rival. The UCLA, so to speak, of the B1G. (An apt comparison given both UConn's and UCLA's basketball histories.) Keep the vision. It will happen. That's why your ambitious academic program is so important. You may not need to actually be AAU but you'll need to be in the ballpark, so to speak.

Been checking the Syracuse forum since the Gopher's bowl was announced. They really hate both Rutgers and UConn. I mean a bordering on psychotic breakdown obsession. What up with that?

Anyway, congratulations on your new coach. Wishing you great success and I still believe we'll be seeing you soon in the B1G.

As a fan of both school's and a believer in public school education the NE has a long history of private school arrogance thats seen time pass them by(BC/SU) and Cuse used to be able to walk into NJ and get some of the excellent 2nd tier talent that kept their FB program at a top 21/38 level until the late 90s? then the "slide" began with PPasqualoni(circa 03) into mere mediocrity.They asked him to relieve his old friend/paisano GDeLeone and he refused, lost to a terrible pre-Schiano RU team and Dr Gross hired Greg Robinson who proclaimed he did'nt need NJ/NY/Conn kids(which angered the downstate HS coaches) to succeed and the "fall to irrelevance" began to pick up steam just as RU and UConn began to rise and pass them by.Maybe someone more eloquent and better educated than me can pick it up from here? But anyway's I liked the midwestern view of NE school politic's showing your interested enough to learn! I got banned on SU's board simply for stating a recruiting fact they did'nt like haha.(obsessed+delusional)

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I actually stopped by tonight to offer my congratulations on the new head coach, but I can't resist weighing in on this.

Kennedy, I think, said in effect, "Some people look at what is and say, why? I look at what could be and say, why not?"

Rutgers is an outstanding academic institution. Now there job is to be an outstanding academic institution that also excels in athletics. A Northeast and B1G equivalent of the Stanford or USC in the PAC12, if you will. Tall order? Yes, but those are the expectations and they are doable. Never said easy, just doable. I think Pernetti had the vision; I hope Herman does. That's the vision. With the vision, resources and drive, it is doable. Unfortunately, too many average B1G fans don't see it (yet). At least in part, Delaney sees it--but I think Delaney may not see it all either. Sure, it's about TVs but that is not the end in itself; that is the means to the end. The end, the one that the leaders of the B1G see--beyond Delaney, if you will--is a dominant consortium of universities that uses athletics and the medium of television to draw the research dollars and the best students from all over the east and Midwest.

When UConn comes aboard, you'll be the eastern seaboard flagship school and the close-proximity rival. The UCLA, so to speak, of the B1G. (An apt comparison given both UConn's and UCLA's basketball histories.) Keep the vision. It will happen. That's why your ambitious academic program is so important. You may not need to actually be AAU but you'll need to be in the ballpark, so to speak.

Been checking the Syracuse forum since the Gopher's bowl was announced. They really hate both Rutgers and UConn. I mean a bordering on psychotic breakdown obsession. What up with that?

Anyway, congratulations on your new coach. Wishing you great success and I still believe we'll be seeing you soon in the B1G.

Interesting While I am a UConn alumni and thus want to beat Rutgers in everything and am just a tad annoyed how Rutgers got ‘saved’ by the B1G and UConn got blackballed by the ACC with a little help from the NCAA, I respect Rutgers and the it’s student body. Most of my neighbors in Jersey are Rutgers alumni or attached to the school in some way.
That said, Rutgers is facing two issues on the athletic front. First, after almost a year on the job, there is very little faith that Herman has any vision what so ever except to save her own arse. Especially, as she was hired to save Barchi’s arse after he threw Pernetti under the bus. Pernetti has the vision that you are talking about. Second, Rutgers focus and finances right now are tied-up with the UMDNJ merge that is supposed to cost $75 million (I have heard people mumble more in the range of $125 to $150 million). The athletic department has been running in the red for years. Outside of the football stadium, most of the college’s other athletic facilities, such as the football practice facility, are sub-par compared to other B1G schools. The B1G will give Rutgers access to more money; but, most of that will likely go toward plugging the budget issue, not to mention that there is talk the B1G wants Rutgers to go all in and help B1G hockey as Jersey is a decent hockey state. The money issue may also keep Rutgers from revamping their football coaching staff as they cannot afford the payouts.
Thus, I agree that Rutgers has potential. But, it also have many challenges.

 

[pj]

Been checking the Syracuse forum since the Gopher's bowl was announced. They really hate both Rutgers and UConn. I mean a bordering on psychotic breakdown obsession. What up with that?

Great post TruDomGopher. Re Syracuse, it's a little mysterious, but keep in mind that UConn has been their great rival in basketball for 20 years, not only on the court but in recruiting battles, and in football UConn and Rutgers have been their major rivals, again for recruiting (all share a NY/NJ/NE/PA focus, but not really competitive for the top PA players) as well as on the football field. UConn and Rutgers both eclipsed Syracuse in football throughout the last 10 years and UConn eclipsed Syracuse in basketball. They have been on a downward trajectory from a storied history. They are a smaller private school and lack resources to compete, and foresee increasing difficulties. They are now in the ACC and have good revenue, but they are a northern outlier in the ACC much like BC, and BC athletics has gone way downhill in the ACC. They will be playing a lot of games a thousand miles away and fan interest will wane. They will no longer have the nearby rivalries they had in the Big East. Boeheim will retire soon. They foresee a poor future for themselves. Meanwhile, UConn and Rutgers promise to rise further, Rutgers aided by the B1G migration and UConn having major fan and state support as the only major public athletics institution in the NY/New England region.

Feelings of deserved superiority based on history combined with knowledge of present and future inferiority make for resentment.

That is my guess anyway.

 

[SouthronCross]

The Big Ten's move was far more strategic than anything the ACC has done to date.

They evicted the ACC and the Big East's corpse from a hugely populated swath of the eastern seaboard.

The Atlantic Coast Except for the Huge Rich Part with all the People Right in the Middle Conference.

If you mean Baltimore, you are correct. If you mean DC, you are incorrect.

 

[Fishy]

If you mean Baltimore, you are correct. If you mean DC, you are incorrect.

Nah.

To the extent that DC cares about college sports, it's Maryland and Georgetown.

Washington Post...

ACC fans should come to grips with the fact that they are very strong in North Carolina, Virginia, Pittsburgh, some lesser cities in South Carolina, Georgia and Florida, half a city block in Boston, parts of Kentuckiana and one town in central New York held together by snow and rust.

 

[uconndogs]

What block in Boston? Lived there for 10 years and never saw it.

 

[pj]

What block in Boston? Lived there for 10 years and never saw it.

Chestnut Hill between Beacon, Commonwealth, Hammond, and Chestnut Hill Drive.

 

[btstimpy]

Nah.

To the extent that DC cares about college sports, it's Maryland and Georgetown.

Washington Post...

ACC fans should come to grips with the fact that they are very strong in North Carolina, Virginia, Pittsburgh, some lesser cities in South Carolina, Georgia and Florida, half a city block in Boston, parts of Kentuckiana and one town in central New York held together by snow and rust.

Virginia and Virginia Tech get coverage in DC as much as Maryland. The Redskins have had 3 Virginia Tech Games in FedEX field in the past decade that mostly sold out against USC, Boise State, and Cincinnati. Cincinnati was probably the lowest turnout. The Washington Post covers Virginia pretty well. When I click on it today, it's all Maryland because Maryland is playing a couple of basketball games, is preparing for a bowl in the DC area, and beat UVA in the Soccer Semis. UVA is on a two week off period for basketball. is not playing in a DC bowl, and is being covered losing the Soccer Semi. Maryland will be covered by the Washington Post. Sure. It's part of the metro region. But so will UVA.

The same Comcast Regional Sports Network covers all of Virginia, DC, and Maryland. It will continue to show ACC after the Maryland departure probably also in Maryland. It will be interesting to see if they try to subdivide it, but I doubt it because Maryland will now be lost over on the BTN. The Big Ten's plan is to try to force the Maryland cable subscribers to buy that channel. It will be interesting to see if they can. They won't be able to force DC or Virginia subcribers.

As for your come to grips comment, you need to add whomever looks at Notre Dame athletics and Louisville athletics. Both have bigger followings than Maryland athletics. ACC fans are satisfied with the trade and grip it very well.

 

[Fishy]

You are off the rails.

No one cares about Notre Dame basketball and Notre Dame football isn't an ACC program.

As for Louisville, please.

They're Appalachia.

The people who are happy with that trade are deluding themselves.

 

[BlueHen]

You are off the rails.

No one cares about Notre Dame basketball and Notre Dame football isn't an ACC program.

As for Louisville, please.

They're Appalachia.

The people who are happy with that trade are deluding themselves.

I agree. Maryland is a better fit for the ACC than Louisville, and has a history with the conference. The ACC made out okay with the addition of Louisville, but given the choice I think lost in the ACC would prefer to have Maryland. Also, not only did the ACC trade Maryland for Louisville, they now have a B1G presence right in their backyard.

 

[btstimpy]

You are off the rails.

No one cares about Notre Dame basketball and Notre Dame football isn't an ACC program.

As for Louisville, please.

They're Appalachia.

The people who are happy with that trade are deluding themselves.

You falsely seem to think Maryland can get audience. 25 years of athletic department finances demonstrate the opposite.

While Notre Dame football isn't an ACC program. Those watching the Notre Dame football team will be watching ACC games for about half the time they watch Notre Dame football for the next 12 years. You need to include that audience. And Louisville has someone looking at them too for them to be able to fund a $95 million athletic department with no TV money. Now with TV money, what can they do? And Louisville is west of Appalachia btw. It's Ohio River Valley. Pitt is Appalacia and also technically the start of Ohio River Valley.

 

[Fishy]

I agree. Maryland is a better fit for the ACC than Louisville, and has a history with the conference. The ACC made out okay with the addition of Louisville, but given the choice I think lost in the ACC would prefer to have Maryland. Also, not only did the ACC trade Maryland for Louisville, they now have a B1G presence right in their backyard.

The "we're better off with Louisville" is a bizarre narrative that is at odds with history and reality.

 

[BlueHen]

The "we're better off with Louisville" is a bizarre narrative that is at odds with history and reality.

Cognitive dissonance.

 

[btstimpy]

I agree. Maryland is a better fit for the ACC than Louisville, and has a history with the conference. The ACC made out okay with the addition of Louisville, but given the choice I think lost in the ACC would prefer to have Maryland. Also, not only did the ACC trade Maryland for Louisville, they now have a B1G presence right in their backyard.

The ACC already had B1G presence in its backyard with Penn State. There probably are close to as many Penn State fans in DC as Maryland fans. The ACC didn't want to lose Maryland. You are correct. The ACC didn't even know Maryland was unhappy. But they won't be missed. I can assure you. The only people unhappy now are Maryland fans. They are slowly coming around to the idea of the Big Ten. They have no choice.

 

[BlueHen]

You falsely seem to think Maryland can get audience. 25 years of athletic department finances demonstrate the opposite.

While Notre Dame football isn't an ACC program. Those watching the Notre Dame football team will be watching ACC games for about half the time they watch Notre Dame football for the next 12 years. You need to include that audience. And Louisville has someone looking at them too for them to be able to fund a $95 million athletic department with no TV money. Now with TV money, what can they do? And Louisville is west of Appalachia btw. It's Ohio River Valley. Pitt is Appalacia and also technically the start of Ohio River Valley.

It's not just a question of Maryland getting audience. It's a question of the B1G getting audience. Maryland didn't go independent, it joined a rival conference and gave that conference a foothold in ACC territory.

 

[btstimpy]

The "we're better off with Louisville" is a bizarre narrative that is at odds with history and reality.

I like the idea that Louisville is adding sports and is close to the ACC's 25 sports. Maryland just flushed 7 of their sports. That statement shows very much accuracy in the context of reality. The Maryland athletic program cuts did occur. You can research it yourself.

 

[btstimpy]

It's not just a question of Maryland getting audience. It's a question of the B1G getting audience. Maryland didn't go independent, it joined a rival conference and gave that conference a foothold in ACC territory.

Yes. But put that in the context of what territory the ACC got with Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, and Louisville and in what backyard. I will take that trade for the State of Maryland that doesn't follow college sports any day of the week and at any hour of said day. And as I said the Big Ten was already in DC with Penn State's large presence. They aren't on much because their games are lost on the BTN. But they are there.

 

[specialisthusky]

I agree. Maryland is a better fit for the ACC than Louisville, and has a history with the conference. The ACC made out okay with the addition of Louisville, but given the choice I think lost in the ACC would prefer to have Maryland. Also, not only did the ACC trade Maryland for Louisville, they now have a B1G presence right in their backyard.

Its more like the B1G is living on the first floor. The Acc did a nice job staking out the back yards of the NYC to DC areas while the B1G moved into NYC NJ Philly Baltimore and DC. I mean whenever you get the chance to take schools from Syracuse Pittsburgh and Louisville in the battle for NYC you take it.

There is a giant hole in the Acc footprint solely made up of B1G schools in one if the most populous areas of the country.

 

[BlueHen]

Yes. But put that in the context of what territory the ACC got with Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, and Louisville and in what backyard. I will take that trade for the State of Maryland that doesn't follow college sports any day of the week and at any hour of said day. And as I said the Big Ten was already in DC with Penn State's large presence. They aren't on much because their games are lost on the BTN. But they are there.

Pitt, Syracuse and Notre Dame weren't part of the trade. The ACC could have had those schools even without Maryland leaving.
The trade was Maryland for Louisville, and all things considered, IMHO, it was a bad trade for the ACC

 

[ThetaZoo]

Folks- it was always about the eyeballs for the Big Ten Network and a place for Ohio State, Michigan, etc to visit for their alumni and recruiting.

Here's a New York Times article on the dumpster fire itself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/01/business/the-big-tens-bigger-footprint.html?smid=fb-share

If we have AAU status, we can recify the problem with Delaney's logic.

One role that comes to mind is the kaiser role, a delicious hard or soft bread that's available in most NY and NJ bakeries. I'm sure visiting B10 teams will want to take home a dozen or two once they've tried them.

 

[upstater]

Its more like the B1G is living on the first floor. The Acc did a nice job staking out the back yards of the NYC to DC areas while the B1G moved into NYC NJ Philly Baltimore and DC. I mean whenever you get the chance to take schools from Syracuse Pittsburgh and Louisville in the battle for NYC you take it.

There is a giant hole in the Acc footprint solely made up of B1G schools in one if the most populous areas of the country.

This the best way to describe it. Syracuse, Pitt and Louisville are all in some form of Appalachia. While the B1g moved east and took oceanfront property.

 

[btstimpy]

Pitt, Syracuse and Notre Dame weren't part of the trade. The ACC could have had those schools even without Maryland leaving.
The trade was Maryland for Louisville, and all things considered, IMHO, it was a bad trade for the ACC

I follow college tennis and swimming very closely. Maryland just dropped both. They sucked at both before they dropped them. Louisville has both, and they are pretty good at Tennis. I think it is a wonderful trade. Louisville is better at football and basketball too than Maryland.

 

[CL82]

You falsely seem to think Maryland can get audience. 25 years of athletic department finances demonstrate the opposite.

While Notre Dame football isn't an ACC program. Those watching the Notre Dame football team will be watching ACC games for about half the time they watch Notre Dame football for the next 12 years. You need to include that audience. And Louisville has someone looking at them too for them to be able to fund a $95 million athletic department with no TV money. Now with TV money, what can they do? And Louisville is west of Appalachia btw. It's Ohio River Valley. Pitt is Appalacia and also technically the start of Ohio River Valley.

How do you reconcile the idea that the ACC is better off without Maryland, with you oft stated view the that the ACC will prevail in it's suit against Maryland for $50M+? I agree with you that the conference did not suffer much current economic lost (well any loss really since ESPN actually increased it's TV money in order to stabilize the conference.) No damages = no payment from Maryland to the ACC.

 

[btstimpy]

How do you reconcile the idea that the ACC is better off without Maryland, with you oft stated view the that the ACC will prevail in it's suit against Maryland for $50M+? I agree with you that the conference did not suffer much current economic lost (well any loss really since ESPN actually increased it's TV money in order to stabilize the conference.) No damages = no payment from Maryland to the ACC.

Louisville is not in the ACC. The conditions of the law suit are independent of Louisville. The lawsuit is about the Contract Maryland is party to with the ACC. The Exit Fee is a term that Maryland is bound by, and they will be held to.

 

[UConn990411]

I follow college tennis and swimming very closely. Maryland just dropped both. They sucked at both before they dropped them. Louisville has both, and they are pretty good at Tennis. I think it is a wonderful trade. Louisville is better at football and basketball too than Maryland.

You seem to be trying to convince yourself more than anything.

There's no rational argument that Maryland for Louisville is a good gain for the ACC. Was Louisville a solid replacement? Sure. They have an athletic department that's very good top to bottom and some national name recognition.

But an upgrade from Maryland? Not even close. You lost the flagship university in a well-populated state that has some pull in two major metropolitans ... and gained a school in a small city in Kentucky. It's a loss for the ACC, and you're not very bright if you think otherwise.