Rutgers Role in the Big Ten

[btstimpy]

You are off the rails.

No one cares about Notre Dame basketball and Notre Dame football isn't an ACC program.

As for Louisville, please.

They're Appalachia.

The people who are happy with that trade are deluding themselves.

You falsely seem to think Maryland can get audience. 25 years of athletic department finances demonstrate the opposite.

While Notre Dame football isn't an ACC program. Those watching the Notre Dame football team will be watching ACC games for about half the time they watch Notre Dame football for the next 12 years. You need to include that audience. And Louisville has someone looking at them too for them to be able to fund a $95 million athletic department with no TV money. Now with TV money, what can they do? And Louisville is west of Appalachia btw. It's Ohio River Valley. Pitt is Appalacia and also technically the start of Ohio River Valley.

 

[Fishy]

I agree. Maryland is a better fit for the ACC than Louisville, and has a history with the conference. The ACC made out okay with the addition of Louisville, but given the choice I think lost in the ACC would prefer to have Maryland. Also, not only did the ACC trade Maryland for Louisville, they now have a B1G presence right in their backyard.

The "we're better off with Louisville" is a bizarre narrative that is at odds with history and reality.

 

[BlueHen]

The "we're better off with Louisville" is a bizarre narrative that is at odds with history and reality.

Cognitive dissonance.

 

[btstimpy]

I agree. Maryland is a better fit for the ACC than Louisville, and has a history with the conference. The ACC made out okay with the addition of Louisville, but given the choice I think lost in the ACC would prefer to have Maryland. Also, not only did the ACC trade Maryland for Louisville, they now have a B1G presence right in their backyard.

The ACC already had B1G presence in its backyard with Penn State. There probably are close to as many Penn State fans in DC as Maryland fans. The ACC didn't want to lose Maryland. You are correct. The ACC didn't even know Maryland was unhappy. But they won't be missed. I can assure you. The only people unhappy now are Maryland fans. They are slowly coming around to the idea of the Big Ten. They have no choice.

 

[BlueHen]

You falsely seem to think Maryland can get audience. 25 years of athletic department finances demonstrate the opposite.

While Notre Dame football isn't an ACC program. Those watching the Notre Dame football team will be watching ACC games for about half the time they watch Notre Dame football for the next 12 years. You need to include that audience. And Louisville has someone looking at them too for them to be able to fund a $95 million athletic department with no TV money. Now with TV money, what can they do? And Louisville is west of Appalachia btw. It's Ohio River Valley. Pitt is Appalacia and also technically the start of Ohio River Valley.

It's not just a question of Maryland getting audience. It's a question of the B1G getting audience. Maryland didn't go independent, it joined a rival conference and gave that conference a foothold in ACC territory.

 

[btstimpy]

The "we're better off with Louisville" is a bizarre narrative that is at odds with history and reality.

I like the idea that Louisville is adding sports and is close to the ACC's 25 sports. Maryland just flushed 7 of their sports. That statement shows very much accuracy in the context of reality. The Maryland athletic program cuts did occur. You can research it yourself.

 

[btstimpy]

It's not just a question of Maryland getting audience. It's a question of the B1G getting audience. Maryland didn't go independent, it joined a rival conference and gave that conference a foothold in ACC territory.

Yes. But put that in the context of what territory the ACC got with Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, and Louisville and in what backyard. I will take that trade for the State of Maryland that doesn't follow college sports any day of the week and at any hour of said day. And as I said the Big Ten was already in DC with Penn State's large presence. They aren't on much because their games are lost on the BTN. But they are there.

 

[specialisthusky]

I agree. Maryland is a better fit for the ACC than Louisville, and has a history with the conference. The ACC made out okay with the addition of Louisville, but given the choice I think lost in the ACC would prefer to have Maryland. Also, not only did the ACC trade Maryland for Louisville, they now have a B1G presence right in their backyard.

Its more like the B1G is living on the first floor. The Acc did a nice job staking out the back yards of the NYC to DC areas while the B1G moved into NYC NJ Philly Baltimore and DC. I mean whenever you get the chance to take schools from Syracuse Pittsburgh and Louisville in the battle for NYC you take it.

There is a giant hole in the Acc footprint solely made up of B1G schools in one if the most populous areas of the country.

 

[BlueHen]

Yes. But put that in the context of what territory the ACC got with Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, and Louisville and in what backyard. I will take that trade for the State of Maryland that doesn't follow college sports any day of the week and at any hour of said day. And as I said the Big Ten was already in DC with Penn State's large presence. They aren't on much because their games are lost on the BTN. But they are there.

Pitt, Syracuse and Notre Dame weren't part of the trade. The ACC could have had those schools even without Maryland leaving.
The trade was Maryland for Louisville, and all things considered, IMHO, it was a bad trade for the ACC

 

[ThetaZoo]

Folks- it was always about the eyeballs for the Big Ten Network and a place for Ohio State, Michigan, etc to visit for their alumni and recruiting.

Here's a New York Times article on the dumpster fire itself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/01/business/the-big-tens-bigger-footprint.html?smid=fb-share

If we have AAU status, we can recify the problem with Delaney's logic.

One role that comes to mind is the kaiser role, a delicious hard or soft bread that's available in most NY and NJ bakeries. I'm sure visiting B10 teams will want to take home a dozen or two once they've tried them.

 

[upstater]

Its more like the B1G is living on the first floor. The Acc did a nice job staking out the back yards of the NYC to DC areas while the B1G moved into NYC NJ Philly Baltimore and DC. I mean whenever you get the chance to take schools from Syracuse Pittsburgh and Louisville in the battle for NYC you take it.

There is a giant hole in the Acc footprint solely made up of B1G schools in one if the most populous areas of the country.

This the best way to describe it. Syracuse, Pitt and Louisville are all in some form of Appalachia. While the B1g moved east and took oceanfront property.

 

[btstimpy]

Pitt, Syracuse and Notre Dame weren't part of the trade. The ACC could have had those schools even without Maryland leaving.
The trade was Maryland for Louisville, and all things considered, IMHO, it was a bad trade for the ACC

I follow college tennis and swimming very closely. Maryland just dropped both. They sucked at both before they dropped them. Louisville has both, and they are pretty good at Tennis. I think it is a wonderful trade. Louisville is better at football and basketball too than Maryland.

 

[CL82]

You falsely seem to think Maryland can get audience. 25 years of athletic department finances demonstrate the opposite.

While Notre Dame football isn't an ACC program. Those watching the Notre Dame football team will be watching ACC games for about half the time they watch Notre Dame football for the next 12 years. You need to include that audience. And Louisville has someone looking at them too for them to be able to fund a $95 million athletic department with no TV money. Now with TV money, what can they do? And Louisville is west of Appalachia btw. It's Ohio River Valley. Pitt is Appalacia and also technically the start of Ohio River Valley.

How do you reconcile the idea that the ACC is better off without Maryland, with you oft stated view the that the ACC will prevail in it's suit against Maryland for $50M+? I agree with you that the conference did not suffer much current economic lost (well any loss really since ESPN actually increased it's TV money in order to stabilize the conference.) No damages = no payment from Maryland to the ACC.

 

[btstimpy]

How do you reconcile the idea that the ACC is better off without Maryland, with you oft stated view the that the ACC will prevail in it's suit against Maryland for $50M+? I agree with you that the conference did not suffer much current economic lost (well any loss really since ESPN actually increased it's TV money in order to stabilize the conference.) No damages = no payment from Maryland to the ACC.

Louisville is not in the ACC. The conditions of the law suit are independent of Louisville. The lawsuit is about the Contract Maryland is party to with the ACC. The Exit Fee is a term that Maryland is bound by, and they will be held to.

 

[UConn990411]

I follow college tennis and swimming very closely. Maryland just dropped both. They sucked at both before they dropped them. Louisville has both, and they are pretty good at Tennis. I think it is a wonderful trade. Louisville is better at football and basketball too than Maryland.

You seem to be trying to convince yourself more than anything.

There's no rational argument that Maryland for Louisville is a good gain for the ACC. Was Louisville a solid replacement? Sure. They have an athletic department that's very good top to bottom and some national name recognition.

But an upgrade from Maryland? Not even close. You lost the flagship university in a well-populated state that has some pull in two major metropolitans ... and gained a school in a small city in Kentucky. It's a loss for the ACC, and you're not very bright if you think otherwise.

 

[btstimpy]

You seem to be trying to convince yourself more than anything.

There's no rational argument that Maryland for Louisville is a good gain for the ACC. Was Louisville a solid replacement? Sure. They have an athletic department that's very good top to bottom and some national name recognition.

But an upgrade from Maryland? Not even close. You lost the flagship university in a well-populated state that has some pull in two major metropolitans ... and gained a school in a small city in Kentucky. It's a loss for the ACC, and you're not very bright if you think otherwise.

What good is a flagship university that doesn't even have the teams to show up at the meets and matches because it cut its programs? I don't care how many people live in the state. If they cut the sports, they're worthless.

 

[UConn990411]

You seem to think tennis and swimming matter. They don't.

 

[btstimpy]

You seem to think tennis and swimming matter. They don't.

They do matter very much in the ACC. And Louisville competes in both.

 

[pj]

Well, it sounds like a win-win. B1G gets more money which they're after and ACC gets more tennis and swimming.

 

[btstimpy]

Well, it sounds like a win-win. B1G gets more money which they're after and ACC gets more tennis and swimming.

It remains to be seen how much more money the B1G will get. And yes the ACC gets another athletic department that is very healthy, has tennis and swimming, and has a bigger Football Stadium that it fills, and a bigger basketball areana that it also fills.

 

[billybud]

Fans down in this southern part of the ACC are thrilled at the idea of losing Maryland for Louisville....

Maryland was a tepid football fanbase, a lousy opponent in terms of providing a semblance of being competitive, and a dumpster fire of an athletic department...cutting programs, bleeding red ink...

 

[coachRD]

Folks- it was always about the eyeballs for the Big Ten Network and a place for Ohio State, Michigan, etc to visit for their alumni and recruiting.

Here's a New York Times article on the dumpster fire itself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/01/business/the-big-tens-bigger-footprint.html?smid=fb-share

If we have AAU status, we can recify the problem with Delaney's logic.

Exactly....Rutgers is the neighborhood kid that is invited to play football solely because he has the right size backyard.

 

[upstater]

What good is a flagship university that doesn't even have the teams to show up at the meets and matches because it cut its programs? I don't care how many people live in the state. If they cut the sports, they're worthless.

You're placing way too much emphasis on that budget. Lots of schools subsidize their sports. Virginia does too. $11 million. Maryland was at $17 million. The difference between the two schools in $6 million.

 

[billybud]

Maryland is in the B1G...with Rutgers...

Louisville is in the ACC....

That is the way it is...I, for one am pleased with that...some may not be..But it is what it is and ain't going away.

The ACC is now talking divisional realignment. I will wait until that becomes clearer before I speculate on how, or if, that affects ACC CR.

 

[btstimpy]

You're placing way too much emphasis on that budget. Lots of schools subsidize their sports. Virginia does too. $11 million. Maryland was at $17 million. The difference between the two schools in $6 million.

My emphasis is on the Director's Cup finishes and health of the athletic department financially. Virginia right now sponsors 25 sports. I'd like to see UVA add some more. The highest we've been able to achieve in the Director's Cup is #3 a few years ago. I'd like to see UVA win it. Stanford seems to have a stranglehold on it.

Louisville sponsors 22 sports that the ACC sponsors. That's a good fit. UConn sponsors 23 sports that the ACC sponsors which is also a good fit. Both also make an effort to be competitive in all their sports too. I like that. I don't want schools that only go through the motions either. We have some baseball programs in the league that seem to be doing this. Maryland is one of them. That's not good. Duke was doing it in football. But the new Athletic Director and Coach have decided to up their game in football. That's good for the league.

Maryland used to sponsor all 25 sports that the ACC sponsors. Now they are down to 18 because they can't run a successful athletic department of the size they were trying to. Is Maryland a fit? Sure they've been here for 60 years. But Louisville and UConn are both now better fits because Louisville and UConn would have better league participation. This is what I emphasize. I'm not the guy who only cares about football or even basketball.

 

[whaler11]

I like the idea that Louisville is adding sports and is close to the ACC's 25 sports. Maryland just flushed 7 of their sports. That statement shows very much accuracy in the context of reality. The Maryland athletic program cuts did occur. You can research it yourself.

Maybe someday I'll understand why the number of sports a school sponsors matters.

 

[upstater]

My emphasis is on the Director's Cup finishes and health of the athletic department financially. Virginia right now sponsors 25 sports. I'd like to see UVA add some more. The highest we've been able to achieve in the Director's Cup is #3 a few years ago. I'd like to see UVA win it. Stanford seems to have a stranglehold on it.

Louisville sponsors 22 sports that the ACC sponsors. That's a good fit. UConn sponsors 23 sports that the ACC sponsors which is also a good fit. Both also make an effort to be competitive in all their sports too. I like that. I don't want schools that only go through the motions either. We have some baseball programs in the league that seem to be doing this. Maryland is one of them. That's not good. Duke was doing it in football. But the new Athletic Director and Coach have decided to up their game in football. That's good for the league.

Maryland used to sponsor all 25 sports that the ACC sponsors. Now they are down to 18 because they can't run a successful athletic department of the size they were trying to. Is Maryland a fit? Sure they've been here for 60 years. But Louisville and UConn are both now better fits because Louisville and UConn would have better league participation. This is what I emphasize. I'm not the guy who only cares about football or even basketball.

You can't bag on people for deciding to stop bleeding.

 

[whaler11]

I follow college tennis and swimming very closely. Maryland just dropped both. They sucked at both before they dropped them. Louisville has both, and they are pretty good at Tennis. I think it is a wonderful trade. Louisville is better at football and basketball too than Maryland.

If your argument is swimming and tennis I believe the term is 'penny wise and pound foolish'.

 

[SouthronCross]

Nah.

To the extent that DC cares about college sports, it's Maryland and Georgetown.

Washington Post...

ACC fans should come to grips with the fact that they are very strong in North Carolina, Virginia, Pittsburgh, some lesser cities in South Carolina, Georgia and Florida, half a city block in Boston, parts of Kentuckiana and one town in central New York held together by snow and rust.

To me, DC is similar to NYC, in that no one single team will bring them an overwhelming advantage there.

Maryland's own fans don't give a rip about them. I seriously doubt that DC does, either.

UVA's and VPI's presence there will do just fine for the ACC.

 

[SouthronCross]

I agree. Maryland is a better fit for the ACC than Louisville, and has a history with the conference. The ACC made out okay with the addition of Louisville, but given the choice I think lost in the ACC would prefer to have Maryland. Also, not only did the ACC trade Maryland for Louisville, they now have a B1G presence right in their backyard.

We've had an SEC presence in our backyard since 1978, a Big East presence for nearly as long, and, have survived just fine.