Rumor- UCONN Pursuing ACC Membership?

[ElGreco]

I’ve been following this thread, though not to the level of detail by posters here.

My quick takeaway is, I hope UConn is actively talking to the B12. I’d take an offer from the B12 in a second.

After it was mentioned Pitt could go to the Big12 it got me thinking. If the Pac12 survives, the Big12 could add Pitt, Syracuse, UConn & BC and have an eastern group of 6 with WV & Cincy. I envision UVA & UNC to the BIG & Fl State & Clemson to the SEC. Perhaps the Big 12 takes some ACC leftovers. One thing for sure-changes are coming at some point. I love the BE & MSG and Hockey East but we need a football home and more revenue. Can’t wait for MSG Thursday

 

[BigTenFan]

I was with you up until the last sentence. I’m just not sure the XL Center makes any sense. If someone actually put together a plan that had realistic numbers assigned to it that showed there was an opportunity to recoup further investment in the XL center, I’d be behind it, but it seems like the management style of the CDRA is pretty much “I don’t know, let’s give this a shot” coupled with a concerted effort to hide as much of their ongoing loss as possible in the University of Connecticut. Athletic department budget.

The XL center became an afterthought as soon as both casinos opened. Now they both have Sports betting on site. I find it amazing that you can't bet on UConn teams in state(full disclosure I don't bet on College sports) yet the UConn Women play at Mohegan Sun. It's the ultimate hypocrisy -It tells me that the state and city of Hartford can't produce a venue to compete with Mohegan Sun.

 

[CL82]

I agree that investing in rebuilding the XL Center is not a good financial investment, but the right building could be used much more. Hartford should be in the rotation for NCAA tournament games, both men and women, as well as NCAA hockey tournament games as well as more concerts. And, Hartford does not really have much activity and it needs draws to get people into the city and help with the turnaround. I do think the city is turning around with UConn moving in, apartments being built, and the Yard Goats stadium.

I don’t know. It seems to me like the days of the big arena may be gone if you don’t have a pro team as an anchor tenant. Concert venues aren’t looking for cavernous space in general and it seems like the casinos are a better venue for a multitude of reasons. I agree for Hartford to have a shot at making its money back. It would need an updated venue rather than throwing another coat of paint on the XL. I’m just not sure that they ever end up with any return on investment from that.

I agree with you 100% that the Yardgoats stadium got it right, well, at least after the initial construction problems. Maybe there’s something to be learned from that. Could Hartford support a major league stadium? Probably not. But a right sized stadium has been successful, though, not the economic engine it was portrayed to be.

 

[CL82]

We block UMass

I don’t know that they are particularly worthy of a spot, but if they were, more power to them. Having a decent UMass is good for UConn.

 

[CL82]

LOL. It's easy for 82. It's not his job that he's betting with..

Lol, way not to tag someone.

True enough, although it’s also true, that it’s not my tax dollars that’s being used to support an organization that has cost state of Connecticut taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. If it was, I would be livid about it.

 

[ElGreco]

I don’t know that they are particularly worthy of a spot, but if they were, more power to them. Having a decent UMass is good for UConn.

True. There is potential but they have a long way to go to be relevant and there is no commitment by the state, unlike UConn. BC gets little attention even in Boston. It’s a pro state.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

After it was mentioned Pitt could go to the Big12 it got me thinking. If the Pac12 survives, the Big12 could add Pitt, Syracuse, UConn & BC and have an eastern group of 6 with WV & Cincy. I envision UVA & UNC to the BIG & Fl State & Clemson to the SEC. Perhaps the Big 12 takes some ACC leftovers. One thing for sure-changes are coming at some point. I love the BE & MSG and Hockey East but we need a football home and more revenue. Can’t wait for MSG Thursday

Just asking this question. Would the B1G give UConn a look because of two stellar basketball programs, Jim Mora and his football team, and because of UConn’s support of its Ice Hockey program, the new arena, etc. The B1G also gets it hooks into the NYC metro area and the rest of the Northeast.

 

[businesslawyer]

Lol, way not to tag someone.

True enough, although it’s also true, that it’s not my tax dollars that’s being used to support an organization that has cost state of Connecticut taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. If it was, I would be livid about it.

The State of Connecticut enters into dozens of relationships with businesses which costs state dollars to protect CT jobs and tax base. As does every other state. You disagree with it, that's fine -- you're not alone -- but it's a reasonable and common state action. Is the particular deal a good one? Way beyond my ability to know. Or yours.

 

[Slasher]

If Hartford were 4 times the size with 3 times the population its image would be much different to outsiders. It would also actually be much different if it were combined with West Hartford, East Hartford, Whethersfield...Probably even have MLB and NFL teams

Hartford - 120k people, 17.4 square miles
Cincinnati - 309k, 78 sq
St. Louis - 293k, 62 sq
Pittsburgh - 300k, 55 sq

Comparing city sizes is a fools errand. You always need to compare metro population.

 

[Kolumbo]

Comparing city sizes is a fools errand. You always need to compare metro population.

My point was that the city of Hartford given the metro population is too small geographically at 17 square miles. It should include the neighboring towns.

 

[noeynox]

The State of Connecticut enters into dozens of relationships with businesses which costs state dollars to protect CT jobs and tax base. As does every other state. You disagree with it, that's fine -- you're not alone -- but it's a reasonable and common state action. Is the particular deal a good one? Way beyond my ability to know. Or yours.

My only take on this, you can't be so cavalier about the jobs of thousands of tax paying citizens because of where UConn is in conference realignment. I know people who work there and have worked there in the past who were making comfortable 6 figure livings for their families. Those tax payers could give a rats you know what about what conference UConn sports play in, if it means putting their jobs at risk.

 

[CL82]

The State of Connecticut enters into dozens of relationships with businesses which costs state dollars to protect CT jobs and tax base. As does every other state. You disagree with it, that's fine -- you're not alone -- but it's a reasonable and common state action. Is the particular deal a good one? Way beyond my ability to know. Or yours.

Are those dozens of imagined tax incentives to ongoing businesses? Are they to ongoing businesses who have cost the state of Connecticut taxpayers, literally, hundreds of millions of dollars? Because I can’t think of another one that meets that fact pattern. Perhaps you can?

 

[CL82]

My only take on this, you can't be so cavalier about the jobs of thousands of tax paying citizens because of where UConn is in conference realignment. I know people who work there and have worked there in the past who were making comfortable 6 figure livings for their families. Those tax payers could give a rats you know what about what conference UConn sports play in, if it means putting their jobs at risk.

So @noeynox doesn’t that logic mean that the state of Connecticut should incentivize every employer in the state of Connecticut? Because everyone of employees employees. If not, then, how do you decide which employers are the beneficiaries of statewide largesse? One criteria that would seem to make sense is are they good citizens of the state of Connecticut. If a business is, I don’t know checking out toxins into the Connecticut river, maybe that’s not a business we want to incentivize. Or, perhaps, it makes sense to say hey, cleaning up your operations is so important to us that we would look favorably upon future tax relief applications. If you did it. See how that works?

In any event, let me say again that subsidizing resident companies for their ongoing operations is generally a mistake. It’s very difficult to do it in an evenhanded manner. If Connecticut is such an onerous state, tax wise, such that existing companies can’t be profitable within it, doesn’t make more sense to restructure the tax system to make Connecticut a more business friendly environment? (For what it’s worth, that is exactly the engine that made Connecticut one of the wealthiest states in the nation.)

 

[businesslawyer]

Are those dozens of imagined tax incentives to ongoing businesses? Are they to ongoing businesses who have cost the state of Connecticut taxpayers, literally, hundreds of millions of dollars? Because I can’t think of another one that meets that fact pattern. Perhaps you can?

Yes. In terms of big tax breaks, go and look at what CT did to get Swiss Bank’s trading operations to Stamford. And they didn’t even stay,

 

[CL82]

Yes. In terms of big tax breaks, go and look at what CT did to get Swiss Bank’s trading operations to Stamford. And they didn’t even stay,

Was that to draw the trading ops to Stamford or was it just to subsidize existing business because those are two very different things, right? Look at this way if you’ve got a business, that’s burning capital to maintain operations, that’s a problem and unsustainable over the long haul. But if they are using capital to establish or expand operations, that’s a more reasonable decision.

 

[noeynox]

So @noeynox doesn’t that logic mean that the state of Connecticut should incentivize every employer in the state of Connecticut? Because everyone of employees employees. If not, then, how do you decide which employers are the beneficiaries of statewide largesse? One criteria that would seem to make sense is are they good citizens of the state of Connecticut. If a business is, I don’t know checking out toxins into the Connecticut river, maybe that’s not a business we want to incentivize. Or, perhaps, it makes sense to say hey, cleaning up your operations is so important to us that we would look favorably upon future tax relief applications. If you did it. See how that works?

In any event, let me say again that subsidizing resident companies for their ongoing operations is generally a mistake. It’s very difficult to do it in an evenhanded manner. If Connecticut is such an onerous state, tax wise, such that existing companies can’t be profitable within it, doesn’t make more sense to restructure the tax system to make Connecticut a more business friendly environment? (For what it’s worth, that is exactly the engine that made Connecticut one of the wealthiest states in the nation.)

You are correct in your 2nd statement but that has nothing to do with ESPN and UConn sports.

Those incentives were given to ESPN and they had nothing to do with UConn and conference realignment. My belief is they had to do with providing X number of jobs. I'm assuming ESPN has delivered on those X number of jobs and whatever else was part of the agreement for the incentives/Tax breaks.

How and who the state chooses to give these incentives, I haven't the slightest clue. My best guess is they have to with good paying jobs creation, as those people will pay state income tax and that is huge source of revenue for this state.

UConn had people in charge to run the university and avoid this predicament for UConn sports. Herbst, Pendergast, Warde, and Hathaway all failed miserably. Probably others responsible as well but those are the faces I see when I think of where they are. Long term I think FB is in vulnerable place, though it kills me to admit it. BB in the Big East at least for now in a very good spot.

 

[businesslawyer]

Was that to draw the trading ops to Stamford or was it just to subsidize existing business because those are two very different things, right? Look at this way if you’ve got a business, that’s burning capital to maintain operations, that’s a problem and unsustainable over the long haul. But if they are using capital to establish or expand operations, that’s a more reasonable decision.

That was to bring them into the state.

 

[CL82]

You are correct in your 2nd statement but that has nothing to do with ESPN and UConn sports.

Those incentives were given to ESPN and they had nothing to do with UConn and conference realignment. My belief is they had to do with providing X number of jobs. I'm assuming ESPN has delivered on those X number of jobs and whatever else was part of the agreement for the incentives/Tax breaks.

How and who the state chooses to give these incentives, I haven't the slightest clue. My best guess is they have to with good paying jobs creation, as those people will pay state income tax and that is huge source of revenue for this state.

UConn had people in charge to run the university and avoid this predicament for UConn sports. Herbst, Pendergast, Warde, and Hathaway all failed miserably. Probably others responsible as well but those are the faces I see when I think of where they are. Long term I think FB is in vulnerable place, though it kills me to admit it. BB in the Big East at least for now in a very good spot.

Whatever incentives they got, they got. But the next time they come, hat in hand to the state looking for additional money the state should certainly consider their actions as corporate citizens. Since that is a criteria, it certainly seems reasonable to make them aware of that. There are a lot of ways to do that that are not confrontational, and the vast majority of them would not be done in public. That could happen is simply as expressly, adding “corporate citizenship” to the evaluation criteria in making a public release stating that.

I continue to believe that tax incentives only makes sense when you are “incentivizing” job growth. Giving tax relief to existing companies who are otherwise threatening to leave the state would be counterproductive.

Given our conference realignment status, your allocation of blame is fair. There is plenty to go around.

 

[CL82]

That was to bring them into the state.

Then that’s reasonable, right? But that’s a different thing, then saying you have to pay existing employers to keep them in state. I don’t think you said this expressly, but that’s been the theme in this thread.

 

[businesslawyer]

Then that’s reasonable, right? But that’s a different thing, then saying you have to pay existing employers to keep them in state. I don’t think you said this expressly, but that’s been the theme in this thread.

As I recall the ESPN deal, it was to expand the facilities, not just redo them. I know there are other CT companies that get paid to expand and stay, as opposed to build bigger in another state. It's all publicly available information.

 

[CL82]

As I recall the ESPN deal, it was to expand the facilities, not just redo them. I know there are other CT companies that get paid to expand and stay, as opposed to build bigger in another state. It's all publicly available information.

Yeah, not really getting your point.

Let me summarize the discussion and bring you up to speed:

Tax incentives to create jobs – good.

Tax incentives as de facto extortion payments to keep companies in state – bad.

Looking at a company’s history in the state when deciding whether or not to offer them a tax incentive – also good.

 

[billybud]

ESPN Gets State Incentives to Add 200 Jobs

The state is giving ESPN millions of dollars in loans and grants, and possible tax exemptions, in exchange for commitment from the company to add at least 200 more jobs in Connecticut. The Bristol-based sports media giant is the third company to become part of the state’s “First Five” incentive...

www.nbcconnecticut.com

 

[ElGreco]

Just asking this question. Would the B1G give UConn a look because of two stellar basketball programs, Jim Mora and his football team, and because of UConn’s support of its Ice Hockey program, the new arena, etc. The B1G also gets it hooks into the NYC metro area and the rest of the Northeast.

It’s possible but becoming a member of the prestigious AAU would be a huge boost. I’m sensing big changes coming

 

[ElGreco]

Comparing city sizes is a fools errand. You always need to compare metro population.

Yes, we have a very large metro!!

 

[CL82]

Yes, we have a very large metro!!

The Big 12 looked to a 100 mile radius as a means to compare schools. I’ve posted it here before but we are something like 11M to 14M within 100 mile radius.