Rumor- UCONN Pursuing ACC Membership?

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Here's the gist of what the guy in post #317 said. The "original 8 members" form the co-op group to explore and secure new conferences. I figure he meant FSU, Clemson, Ga Tech, UNC, NC State, UVA, Duke, Wake but then he said Miami to the B1G:

SEC - Clemson, FSU for example
B1G: UVA, Miami for example
Big 12: 2
AAC: 2

It could work. Maybe a total of say 6 find homes in the B1G and SEC. 2 more could be happy enough in the Big 12, such as Louisville and Pitt. No one would be happy in the AAC but their vote wouldn't be needed or they just want to land somewhere. Or perhaps build a new eastern conference with the remnants plus a few AAC or independent programs.

The majority could do this and try to move before all the good spots are taken by PAC progams, or hold onto the GOR and hope FSU and Clemson can't break it. Risky business all around.

I think where it falls apart is with anyone wanting to go to the AAC - because of money and geography. The lower you go down the ACC totem pole, the less emphasis those administrations put on football. So I just don't see them being motivated to be in the gang of 8 - unless their landing spot is at least the Big12 as that would give them the paydays to stay involved in upper echelon football conferences.

I think the total wild card could be the Johnson case/collective bargaining/payments to all college athletes. That could really cause chaos as some schools will not want to participate in that. It could actually be the best thing to happen to UConn athletics. Time will tell on that.

 

[XStorrsion]

My guess: FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, UVA, VT, GT, Louisville. BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Duke, NC State, Wake left out. ND is a free agent to plot its own course.

It would be interesting to see how the North Carolina legislature would react to divergent paths for UNC and NC State.

I'd be OK with a reconstituted conference of BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Duke, NC State, Wake, UConn and UMass. All sports. I doubt Duke would look favorably on this, but they might have little choice.

Louisville over NC State?

Leftovers would probably be: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Duke, Louisville, Wake

Possible additions: UConn, Temple, Memphis, USF, SMU

Extra filler: ECU, UMass

Extra extra filler to stroke Duke's ego: Tulane, Rice, Tulsa

So basically the bottom half of the ACC and the top half of the old AAC (minus Cincy)

 

[billybud]

100% - The ACC leftovers will make more money selecting those they want to partner with and omitting deadweight schools from conferences lower on the pecking order. No one is going from the ACC to the AAC willingly. No one is voting to dissolve the ACC as a conference without knowing they have a safe and better landing spot... those going to the AAC won't have that. Even if the entity was dissolved, my opinion is that the leftovers bound together would have more leverage to be the selectors from the lessor (or current G5) conferences.


At the cost of whatever the AAC bylaws say they'll owe at that time... and the reputational hit from being associated with what's left there.


The ACC bylaws state nothing about dissolution, so it would go to a lawsuit from the schools left behind arguing that it's not even a legal vote or that the organization still lists. Particularly when you consider it takes a 3/4 vote to kick anyone out of the league, it doesn't take much of a leap argument that you can't dissolve the league without "kicking out" the seven schools that vote against it.

However...the ACC is a 501 (3)(c) non profit incorporated under the laws of North Carolina. And the North Carolina statute section on dissolution of the non profit calls for a majority vote by the members for the dissolution plan.

Have no idea how that plays in...but if the ACC is disolved, there is no GOR.

 

[Kolumbo]

Somewhat CR related.

"Had those communities all remained part of Hartford, the capital city today would have a population of nearly 300,000. This would put it in the population range of Madison, Wisc., Buffalo, N.Y. and Reno, Nev. and make it the second-largest city in New England, surpassing Worcester’s 206,000 and Providence’s 190,000. If just Hartford and East Hartford merged, as Bronin hinted, the city of 171,000 would be far and away the largest in the state, topping Bridgeport’s 150,000."

Does CT need 169 municipalities? Some say merging makes sense

At a fall press conference about a plan to rebuild Hartford’s highways, Congressman John Larson praised the mayors of Hartford and East Hartford, Luke Bronin and Mike Walsh, for how well they were working together to get the major infrastructure initiative underway. This prompted Bronin to say...

www.hartfordbusiness.com

 

[FfldCntyFan]

However...the ACC is a 501 (3)(c) non profit incorporated under the laws of North Carolina. And the North Carolina statute section on dissolution of the non profit calls for a majority vote by the members for the dissolution plan.

Have no idea how that plays in...but if the ACC is disolved, there is no GOR.

I still would love to know the basis where a majority of the ACC would vote for dissolution.

At a minimum a third of the conference would absolutely lose significantly on stature and economics while another third could only hope that they may be able to break even.

Does anyone believe that a school would vote to damage their athletic future just so FSU and Clemson can make triple the money their school will end up with?

 

[Stinger92860]

I’ve been following this thread, though not to the level of detail by posters here.

My quick takeaway is, I hope UConn is actively talking to the B12. I’d take an offer from the B12 in a second.

 

[Kolumbo]

I still would love to know the basis where a majority of the ACC would vote for dissolution.

At a minimum a third of the conference would absolutely lose significantly on stature and economics while another third could only hope that they may be able to break even.

Does anyone believe that a school would vote to damage their athletic future just so FSU and Clemson can make triple the money their school will end up with?

Lots of discussion about this on the syracuse board so it seems many of those fans are accepting the ACC demise.

ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

Lots of interesting--even outside-the-box--thoughts in this thread. One that hasn't been mentioned much is the potential of the ACC Network. The PAC-12 basically failed in their attempt to launch a network; the ACC version has been much more successful. With ESPN input, could an agreement be...

syracusefan.com

 

[JohnFSilver]

Somewhat CR related.

"Had those communities all remained part of Hartford, the capital city today would have a population of nearly 300,000. This would put it in the population range of Madison, Wisc., Buffalo, N.Y. and Reno, Nev. and make it the second-largest city in New England, surpassing Worcester’s 206,000 and Providence’s 190,000. If just Hartford and East Hartford merged, as Bronin hinted, the city of 171,000 would be far and away the largest in the state, topping Bridgeport’s 150,000."

Does CT need 169 municipalities? Some say merging makes sense

At a fall press conference about a plan to rebuild Hartford’s highways, Congressman John Larson praised the mayors of Hartford and East Hartford, Luke Bronin and Mike Walsh, for how well they were working together to get the major infrastructure initiative underway. This prompted Bronin to say...

www.hartfordbusiness.com

The fact that the suburbs essentially put all their issues and work into hartofrd, with no county authority, was one of the most horrible and cynical political practices we have seen.

Essentially, towns gave the cities all the social ills and the cost and allowed the suburbs to just by mere a mile away create a universe that is unobtainable.

For example. I live in Farmington. I live about 4.5 to 5 miles from where I grew up in. The difference in life, services, safety is light years different. It is amazing.

Essentially, hartfords biggest issue is it has no land.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Lots of discussion about this on the syracuse board so it seems many of those fans are accepting the ACC demise.

ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

Lots of interesting--even outside-the-box--thoughts in this thread. One that hasn't been mentioned much is the potential of the ACC Network. The PAC-12 basically failed in their attempt to launch a network; the ACC version has been much more successful. With ESPN input, could an agreement be...

syracusefan.com

Those fans aren't aware enough to realize that we've surpassed them in men's basketball a couple decades ago and we've accomplished considerably more than they ever could have dreamed of.

If that is your bellwether for credibility of this rumor,... well,....

 

[CL82]

Somewhat CR related.

"Had those communities all remained part of Hartford, the capital city today would have a population of nearly 300,000. This would put it in the population range of Madison, Wisc., Buffalo, N.Y. and Reno, Nev. and make it the second-largest city in New England, surpassing Worcester’s 206,000 and Providence’s 190,000. If just Hartford and East Hartford merged, as Bronin hinted, the city of 171,000 would be far and away the largest in the state, topping Bridgeport’s 150,000."

Does CT need 169 municipalities? Some say merging makes sense

At a fall press conference about a plan to rebuild Hartford’s highways, Congressman John Larson praised the mayors of Hartford and East Hartford, Luke Bronin and Mike Walsh, for how well they were working together to get the major infrastructure initiative underway. This prompted Bronin to say...

www.hartfordbusiness.com

The problem with merging a successfully run municipality with a larger unsuccessfully run one is that it penalizes the successful municipality. Perhaps if Hartford fixes its governance issues such that it no longer requires state aid, a merger might be attractive to other municipalities.

 

[JohnFSilver]

The problem with merging a successfully run municipality with a larger unsuccessfully run one is that it penalizes the successful municipality. Perhaps if Hartford fixes its governance issues such that it no longer requires state aid, a merger might be attractive to other municipalities.

Is Hartford not successfully run? Or is It’s issues fatal? I would I argue the later.

And, to be honest, I would let west Hartford residents run Hartford. Who is to say the Hartford political apparatus wins?

Maybe west Hartford takes over. I would be for that. The mentality in this state has preserved a very small town way of living, but the XL Center is the perfect issue to encapsulate the stupidity.

The XL is a Hartford county project. Not a state project. As was the fast track and other improvements. Hartford can’t do it alone, and the state funding is shot down because it isn’t in the best interests of those who will never frequent.

Should have a county political apparatus that can do planning and development. It’s destroyed our state.

 

[hoopsfan22]

The problem with merging a successfully run municipality with a larger unsuccessfully run one is that it penalizes the successful municipality. Perhaps if Hartford fixes its governance issues such that it no longer requires state aid, a merger might be attractive to other municipalities.

They will forever require state aid. Such is life in a small city that can't tax half of its properties and relies on reimbursement by the state.

 

[hardcorehusky]

I understand what you're saying. I just think you're wrong. Your thought seems to be to threaten the companies tax incentives if they can't make a third party do something that is actually against the company's best interest (It was against ESPN's best interest to pay pro-rata for any Big XII expansion at the time of Malloy's request). That's much closer to your pinstriped suit analogy than anything I said or any made-up percentage about the likelihood of certain outcomes.

ESPN did put out a model for UConn and Syracuse during the ACC expansion, it was the first and preferred model. The politics within the ACC killed that, that's not something that ESPN could affect without, again doing something against it's best interest and paying a premium for the content if the ACC does something that it's members thought was against their own best interests.

You and I may share the same opinion about the value of corporate tax incentives (and CTs corporate tax structure)

Here is where I think differently than you. ESPN put out a model for UConn and Syracuse during ACC expansion, it was the first and preferred model. The politics within the ACC killed that, that's something ESPN COULD affect but didn't. It has nothing to do with ACC best interest. Today, ESPN would have nixed the deal moving forward if that wasn't what they wanted. ESPN chose not to assist UConn. If they said to the ACC, take UConn, they would have.

 

[Kolumbo]

The fact that the suburbs essentially put all their issues and work into hartofrd, with no county authority, was one of the most horrible and cynical political practices we have seen.

Essentially, towns gave the cities all the social ills and the cost and allowed the suburbs to just by mere a mile away create a universe that is unobtainable.

For example. I live in Farmington. I live about 4.5 to 5 miles from where I grew up in. The difference in life, services, safety is light years different. It is amazing.

Essentially, hartfords biggest issue is it has no land.

If Hartford were 4 times the size with 3 times the population its image would be much different to outsiders. It would also actually be much different if it were combined with West Hartford, East Hartford, Whethersfield...Probably even have MLB and NFL teams

Hartford - 120k people, 17.4 square miles
Cincinnati - 309k, 78 sq
St. Louis - 293k, 62 sq
Pittsburgh - 300k, 55 sq

 

[CL82]

If Hartford were 4 times the size with 3 times the population its image would be much different to outsiders. It would also actually be much different if it were combined with West Hartford, East Hartford, Whethersfield...Probably even have MLB and NFL teams

Hartford - 120k people, 17.4 square miles
Cincinnati - 309k, 78 sq
St. Louis - 293k, 62 sq
Pittsburgh - 300k, 55 sq

Heck, if we just renamed the state of Connecticut “Hartford” it would be the third largest city in the nation!

 

[CL82]

Is Hartford not successfully run? Or is It’s issues fatal? I would I argue the later.

And, to be honest, I would let west Hartford residents run Hartford. Who is to say the Hartford political apparatus wins?

Maybe west Hartford takes over. I would be for that. The mentality in this state has preserved a very small town way of living, but the XL Center is the perfect issue to encapsulate the stupidity.

The XL is a Hartford county project. Not a state project. As was the fast track and other improvements. Hartford can’t do it alone, and the state funding is shot down because it isn’t in the best interests of those who will never frequent.

Should have a county political apparatus that can do planning and development. It’s destroyed our state.

The thing is, no one else wants to take on that train wreck. Whenever people “if only” Hartford’s problems it is a tacit concession that the problems are insoluble as they are. It is, in essence, an exercise in “magic thinking” which is more appropriate for toddlers, than for governmental planning.

 

[UConnJim]

The fact that the suburbs essentially put all their issues and work into hartofrd, with no county authority, was one of the most horrible and cynical political practices we have seen.

Essentially, towns gave the cities all the social ills and the cost and allowed the suburbs to just by mere a mile away create a universe that is unobtainable.

I don't think the towns of Connecticut ever pushed problems into Hartford as there really never was any significant county authority in Connecticut:

"In 1959, a Democrat-controlled legislature voted to end county government, and serving no other purpose but to manage county jails, the last elected position of county governance, the sheriff, was finally discarded in 2000. It’s a popular opinion that county governance is unnecessary because Connecticut is a small state."

In 1950, Hartford had a population that was 40% larger than the population of the 8 towns that surround Hartford. Unfortunately, the deindustrialization of the Northern cities decimated Hartford and similar manufacturing cities and Hartford started to decline.

One of the biggest problems for Hartford is the large amount of untaxed property in the city. ~60% of real estate in Hartford is untaxed. Using all property including autos, etc., ~51% of assets in Hartford are untaxed which is up from ~24% in 1967. The state, by statute, is supposed to reimburse cities for a large portion of the untaxed property revenue losses, but the state has traditionally underpaid. So, yes, I think the state should pay more to Hartford. And given how small Connecticut is, yes, I think the state should support the XL Center.

 

[Kolumbo]

Heck, if we just renamed the state of Connecticut “Hartford” it would be the third largest city in the nation!

That doesn't make any sense. It would be 10 times the size of New York City.

 

[CL82]

I think the state should support the XL Center.

I was with you up until the last sentence. I’m just not sure the XL Center makes any sense. If someone actually put together a plan that had realistic numbers assigned to it that showed there was an opportunity to recoup further investment in the XL center, I’d be behind it, but it seems like the management style of the CDRA is pretty much “I don’t know, let’s give this a shot” coupled with a concerted effort to hide as much of their ongoing loss as possible in the University of Connecticut. Athletic department budget.

 

[CL82]

That doesn't make any sense. It would be 10 times the size of New York City.

I don’t think so. The total population of Connecticut is what 3 million, 3 1/2 million maybe?

 

[uconnfan68]

The problem with merging a successfully run municipality with a larger unsuccessfully run one is that it penalizes the successful municipality. Perhaps if Hartford fixes its governance issues such that it no longer requires state aid, a merger might be attractive to other municipalities.

The irony is that Hartford needs state aid because of the state. Lots of tax exempt real estate.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Hartford (unless things have changed since I worked there in the 1990's) has a disadvantage that few large cities with a reasonable number of white collar jobs have. There are no affluent neighborhoods (high tax base) in the city, they are all in neighboring towns. This makes it far more difficult for the city to support its infrastructure than those it may be in competition with for corporate jobs and a hospitality/entertainment economy.

A second (massive) problem is that what should be it's most valuable real estate (waterfront property)has been taken away by I-95 and the cost to restore it would be astronomical (I'm guess all in could be as much as $50 billion).

More specific to our concerns is the white elephant that is now known as the XL center. There is no logical way to justify continuing to put band aids on the relic, there won't be sufficient benefits from a new arena to warrant the cost yet closing it up would be a near fatal blow to Hartford's economy.

I really don't know what the answer is.

 

[UConnJim]

I was with you up until the last sentence. I’m just not sure the XL Center makes any sense. If someone actually put together a plan that had realistic numbers assigned to it that showed there was an opportunity to recoup further investment in the XL center, I’d be behind it, but it seems like the management style of the CDRA is pretty much “I don’t know, let’s give this a shot” coupled with a concerted effort to hide as much of their ongoing loss as possible in the University of Connecticut. Athletic department budget.

I agree that investing in rebuilding the XL Center is not a good financial investment, but the right building could be used much more. Hartford should be in the rotation for NCAA tournament games, both men and women, as well as NCAA hockey tournament games as well as more concerts. And, Hartford does not really have much activity and it needs draws to get people into the city and help with the turnaround. I do think the city is turning around with UConn moving in, apartments being built, and the Yard Goats stadium.

 

[ElGreco]

My guess: FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, UVA, VT, GT, Louisville. BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Duke, NC State, Wake left out. ND is a free agent to plot its own course.

It would be interesting to see how the North Carolina legislature would react to divergent paths for UNC and NC State.

I'd be OK with a reconstituted conference of BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Duke, NC State, Wake, UConn and UMass. All sports. I doubt Duke would look favorably on this, but they might have little choice.

UMASS

 

[ElGreco]

Louisville over NC State?

Leftovers would probably be: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Duke, Louisville, Wake

Possible additions: UConn, Temple, Memphis, USF, SMU

Extra filler: ECU, UMass

Extra extra filler to stroke Duke's ego: Tulane, Rice, Tulsa

So basically the bottom half of the ACC and the top half of the old AAC (minus Cincy)

We block UMass