Rumor- UCONN Pursuing ACC Membership?

[Hondo 77]

So let me get this straight. You're saying a path forward is letting FSU go to the SEC, paying them more money (possibly Clemson as well), while not reducing the money for the remaining ACC schools? And bringing in more schools to the ACC and paying them more money as well. If you were ESPN you would do this because...FSU needs to keep up with the Joneses?

Not a good business plan.

 

[Hondo 77]

Rutgers was a terrible decision. And that doesn’t make what I am saying not true.

Except they brought a ton of money with them that benefited all the other schools in the B1G.

 

[CL82]

Rutgers was a terrible decision. And that doesn’t make what I am saying not true.

Rutgers was was a great decision financially, it is just disappointing emotionally for big ten fans.

 

[ZooCougar]

I think what we are both saying is true. FSU and Clemson have the most football fans and best football brands in the ACC with Miami probably close. Also true, the B1G wouldn’t add any of them.

Miami is so overrated across the board.

 

[noeynox]

Is the State of CT still subsidizing ESPN with tax breaks? If so, why? Why is not UConn pushing state government to put some heat on ESPN to get UConn a seat at the table? What does ESPN contribute to the CT economy?

Jobs. And those people with jobs pay CT income tax.

 

[CL82]

Jobs. And those people with jobs pay CT income tax.

Yep. The question is with the company. Abandon, its massive campus and relocate elsewhere. If Connecticut didn’t give it tax incentives. It seems to me it would be cheaper just to find UConn a home.

 

[noeynox]

Yep. The question is with the company. Abandon, its massive campus and relocate elsewhere. If Connecticut didn’t give it tax incentives. It seems to me it would be cheaper just to find UConn a home.

I don't know you could do that. If they called your bluff and did move, thousands would lose their job over UConn athletics?

 

[CL82]

I don't know you could do that. If they called your bluff and did move, thousands would lose their job over UConn athletics?

Well, by the same logic, we should give them access to the entire state treasury, so they’ll stay, right?

In my opinion, the state shouldn’t give ESPN a dollar given the fact that they’ve cost us hundreds of millions of dollars by eviscerating the Big East and leaving the state university on the outside looking in.

You are the ESPN CEO. You’ve got a choice of finding UConn a Conference home at an anticipated cost of $35 million a year versus losing tax incentives and alienating your state of residence versus abandoning your, say a half billion dollar campus and having to replicate it elsewhere, what do you choose?

Now, the State doesn’t have to be heavy-handed about it. It’s one of those things that are best handled in the margins.

 

[noeynox]

If that leverage existed it would have been used I have to believe.

Not to go through all that again but UConn's administration were caught 100 percent flat footed while others were maneuvering behind the scenes. That's where the blame lies.

 

[CL82]

If that leverage existed it would have been used I have to believe.

Not to go through all that again but UConn's administration were caught 100 percent flat footed while others were maneuvering behind the scenes. That's where the blame lies.

[Shrugs] Or it does exist, but was misplayed or not played at all. Certainly, there were things that the administration could’ve done better as well.

 

[Luna]

In the acc at the time…the basketball schools wanted us.. the football schools didn’t

 

[LoyalFanCT]

One way how FSU and Clemson can leave the ACC. Dissolve the current ACC as we know it. Need eight votes. Seven step process. Here are details. He doesn't suggest the ACC reform the way the new Big East took the name of the old Big East and got new members merged with some of the old members.

 

[storrsroars]

One way how FSU and Clemson can leave the ACC. Dissolve the current ACC as we know it. Need eight votes. Seven step process. Here are details. He doesn't suggest the ACC reform the way the new Big East took the name of the old Big East and got new members merged with some of the old members.

Interesting.

The outcome of what he's suggesting puts FSU and Clemson in the SEC, likely Miami and UVA in the B1G, and Pitt with another school (one of NC State/VA Tech.GA Tech/Louisville) in the B12, leaving 2-3 of those schools to the American and maybe one left out. The teams left behind would most likely be the hoops schools: Duke, UNC, BC, Cuse, Wake and whichever doesn't get into the American.

He explains that the 4 schools making the SEC & B1G would subsidize the ones that have to go to the American & B12 to equalize their $$$ until the end of the GOR in 2036 in order to get to the eight teams needed to disband the ACC (it appears defecting teams would need to commit to an existing competitive conference, not simply leave to create their own thing).

The schools left out would then be left to form their own organization. In some ways maybe they come together to form a watered-down version of Paterno's old Eastern League, that would include UNC, Duke, Syracuse, GaTech, VA Tech, Louisville, Wake, BC, and UConn, then adding UMass as a full member and maybe even ND in hoops with a football agreement?

If such a thing happens, that basically assures UConn will never get into the B1G and likely never the B12. But it would mean a better financial deal than what they have now, and probably significantly better than the American.

 

[ScottVib]

Fully agree with you that Malloy “small timed” the request by doing it publicly. On the other hand, the legislature can, and should, consider whether an entity is a “good neighbor” in deciding to award tax relief. The fact that ESPN has cost the state of Connecticut, literally, hundreds of millions of dollars by eviscerating the Big East is a reasonable part of that assessment. Much of life and a considerable part of business happens “in the margins”. Communicating to ESPN that they are viewed less favorably with Connecticut on the outside looking in, should be one of those things.

Not trying to be an ESPN-apologist, but ESPN leaving would cost the state far more than UConn having been left out of an athletic conference. When you play stupid games (like chicken with a multi-billion dollar corporation) you have a tendency to win stupid prizes (like empty office space in Bristol and several thousand of lost fairly high paying jobs). You don't play chicken here, even with a low probability, ESPN leaving over a political stunt designed to bolster the state colleges athletic program would cost those legislators politically far more than UConn going to the AAC or back to Big East/independence ever would. Furthermore the likelihood of your approach bearing fruit is extremely low, meaning your potential "win" is unlikely and even if it happens your personal benefit is outweigh by the potential cost of the worst case scenario.

Replacing the studio space and satellite dishes in Bristol is nowhere near as complex or costly as replacing the theme parks in Orlando.. had ESPN headquarters been the sole "Disney" entity in Florida, the political stunt there likely would've resulted in the departure of the company and the loss of those jobs. ESPN has floated leaving CT several times, generating some of the breaks/grants they've received historically. In 2022 ESPN received $15M in tax credits.. they aren't going to blink at losing those tax credits (nor is losing them going to push the company out of the state entirely, but it may limit future development). ESPN is also Bristol's biggest contributor to the grand-list, by more than 3x of the second-highest contributor (Eversource). The state stands to lose far more than $15M.

It often seems super easy and straightforward to those of us who are UConn fans. Tell them to help or you'll take away tax breaks and assistance provided from the state. Of course for the politicians the have to weigh cost/benefit: Likelihood of success 10%; benefit - Very Big, potentially name making if the team enjoys immediate success. Likelihood of small failure (issue is ignored by company) 40%; benefit - small harm. Likelihood of having to backtrack 40%; benefit - substantial embarrassment. Likelihood of massive failure (company leaves) 10%; benefit - political career ruined; legacy savaged and seen as responsible for costing the State one of it's highest profile businesses. It's much easier to go out and say "ESPN please help" - take a small victory lap. Let ESPN put out a weak press release saying we push for UConn to get "all due consideration" and call it a win-win.

 

[uchusky32]

Interesting.

The outcome of what he's suggesting puts FSU and Clemson in the SEC, likely Miami and UVA in the B1G, and Pitt with another school (one of NC State/VA Tech.GA Tech/Louisville) in the B12, leaving 2-3 of those schools to the American and maybe one left out. The teams left behind would most likely be the hoops schools: Duke, UNC, BC, Cuse, Wake and whichever doesn't get into the American.

He explains that the 4 schools making the SEC & B1G would subsidize the ones that have to go to the American & B12 to equalize their $$$ until the end of the GOR in 2036 in order to get to the eight teams needed to disband the ACC (it appears defecting teams would need to commit to an existing competitive conference, not simply leave to create their own thing).

The schools left out would then be left to form their own organization. In some ways maybe they come together to form a watered-down version of Paterno's old Eastern League, that would include UNC, Duke, Syracuse, GaTech, VA Tech, Louisville, Wake, BC, and UConn, then adding UMass as a full member and maybe even ND in hoops with a football agreement?

If such a thing happens, that basically assures UConn will never get into the B1G and likely never the B12. But it would mean a better financial deal than what they have now, and probably significantly better than the American.

Doesn't make sense for the 2 or 3 schools on your list to go to the AAC. They could make more staying with the basketball schools and UCONN.

 

[CL82]

Not trying to be an ESPN-apologist, but ESPN leaving would cost the state far more than UConn having been left out of an athletic conference. When you play stupid games (like chicken with a multi-billion dollar corporation) you have a tendency to win stupid prizes (like empty office space in Bristol and several thousand of lost fairly high paying jobs). You don't play chicken here, even with a low probability, ESPN leaving over a political stunt designed to bolster the state colleges athletic program would cost those legislators politically far more than UConn going to the AAC or back to Big East/independence ever would. Furthermore the likelihood of your approach bearing fruit is extremely low, meaning your potential "win" is unlikely and even if it happens your personal benefit is outweigh by the potential cost of the worst case scenario.

Replacing the studio space and satellite dishes in Bristol is nowhere near as complex or costly as replacing the theme parks in Orlando.. had ESPN headquarters been the sole "Disney" entity in Florida, the political stunt there likely would've resulted in the departure of the company and the loss of those jobs. ESPN has floated leaving CT several times, generating some of the breaks/grants they've received historically. In 2022 ESPN received $15M in tax credits.. they aren't going to blink at losing those tax credits (nor is losing them going to push the company out of the state entirely, but it may limit future development). ESPN is also Bristol's biggest contributor to the grand-list, by more than 3x of the second-highest contributor (Eversource). The state stands to lose far more than $15M.

It often seems super easy and straightforward to those of us who are UConn fans. Tell them to help or you'll take away tax breaks and assistance provided from the state. Of course for the politicians the have to weigh cost/benefit: Likelihood of success 10%; benefit - Very Big, potentially name making if the team enjoys immediate success. Likelihood of small failure (issue is ignored by company) 40%; benefit - small harm. Likelihood of having to backtrack 40%; benefit - substantial embarrassment. Likelihood of massive failure (company leaves) 10%; benefit - political career ruined; legacy savaged and seen as responsible for costing the State one of it's highest profile businesses. It's much easier to go out and say "ESPN please help" - take a small victory lap. Let ESPN put out a weak press release saying we push for UConn to get "all due consideration" and call it a win-win.

Mindless appeasement is never a good governing strategy. Respectfully, you seem to have a simplistic black and white view of this issue and that somehow, if the state legislature takes a holistic view of corporations value, before deciding to hand out buckets of taxpayer money, because that’s what it is – if ESPN isn’t paying its fair share, someone else has to, then, then, as a matter of course, ESPN will hitch up its skirts in a huff and abandon hundreds of millions of dollars of infrastructure. That’s just not how decisions are made in the real world.

Let me repeat what I said in my prior post in the hopes that you’ll have a better understanding of it the second time around. Tax Incentives are best used to, wait for it, incentivize additional investment. If businesses have to be “incentivized” to operate in the state after they’ve been in place for decades, then the states corporate tax structure is abysmal. Think of tax incentives as a hammer in the toolbox of the legislature. You don’t take it out and slam away with it hoping to fix every problem. You use the right tool for the right job.

I suppose this should be the part of my post, where I make up percentages to pretend that they’re actually meaningful enhance my viewpoint, but it seems kind of silly and childish, almost as if I recognized that I didn’t have a basis for what I was saying.

Again, it’s a simplistic worldview, but you seem to envision someone in a double breasted pinstripe suit going up to ESPN and saying “it’s a lovely business you have here, it’s a shame, if something were to happen to it.” That isn’t a real world view either. As I noted previously much of business happens in the margins. I had that been done at the time of the original ACC read, we’d already be in a conference now in my opinion.

From my perspective, they shouldn’t get one dollar of taxpayer money until our conference situation is sorted. They’ve cost us hundreds of millions of dollars to date. And we’ve handed them many many millions more in a bucket. That is bad government.

 

[ScottVib]

I understand what you're saying. I just think you're wrong. Your thought seems to be to threaten the companies tax incentives if they can't make a third party do something that is actually against the company's best interest (It was against ESPN's best interest to pay pro-rata for any Big XII expansion at the time of Malloy's request). That's much closer to your pinstriped suit analogy than anything I said or any made-up percentage about the likelihood of certain outcomes.

ESPN did put out a model for UConn and Syracuse during the ACC expansion, it was the first and preferred model. The politics within the ACC killed that, that's not something that ESPN could affect without, again doing something against it's best interest and paying a premium for the content if the ACC does something that it's members thought was against their own best interests.

You and I may share the same opinion about the value of corporate tax incentives (and CTs corporate tax structure)

 

[storrsroars]

Doesn't make sense for the 2 or 3 schools on your list to go to the AAC. They could make more staying with the basketball schools and UCONN.

Again, what the guy suggested could happen (and really the only way it works) is the four schools getting the huge payday bump subsidize the schools going to the AAC (maybe also the B12) to equalize what they'd make under the ACC agreement thru 2036. So those 4-5 schools that leave ACC but don't get into B1G or SEC would still be making far more $$$ than others in the AAC or BE or elsewhere for the next dozen years, and the four schools who won the lottery can well afford to subsidize them and still end up ahead.

A dozen years is a lifetime in the current environment. After 2036, those schools can likely move wherever they need if they don't like the AAC.

 

[ScottVib]

Doesn't make sense for the 2 or 3 schools on your list to go to the AAC. They could make more staying with the basketball schools and UCONN.

100% - The ACC leftovers will make more money selecting those they want to partner with and omitting deadweight schools from conferences lower on the pecking order. No one is going from the ACC to the AAC willingly. No one is voting to dissolve the ACC as a conference without knowing they have a safe and better landing spot... those going to the AAC won't have that. Even if the entity was dissolved, my opinion is that the leftovers bound together would have more leverage to be the selectors from the lessor (or current G5) conferences.

A dozen years is a lifetime in the current environment. After 2036, those schools can likely move wherever they need if they don't like the AAC.

At the cost of whatever the AAC bylaws say they'll owe at that time... and the reputational hit from being associated with what's left there.


The ACC bylaws state nothing about dissolution, so it would go to a lawsuit from the schools left behind arguing that it's not even a legal vote or that the organization still lists. Particularly when you consider it takes a 3/4 vote to kick anyone out of the league, it doesn't take much of a leap argument that you can't dissolve the league without "kicking out" the seven schools that vote against it.

 

[UConnJim]

You can't sue or strong arm potential partners. You play nice, wine and dime them, flatter them,... Then ask nicely.

It's funny, the state of Connecticut is handing $30 to $40 million per year to the UConn athletic department so why not try to give that money to ESPN (through tax breaks or incentives) to cover the increase in the ACC media contract to get UConn into the ACC? UConn games would be better attended, donations would go up,... which would further increase revenues.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

One way how FSU and Clemson can leave the ACC. Dissolve the current ACC as we know it. Need eight votes. Seven step process. Here are details. He doesn't suggest the ACC reform the way the new Big East took the name of the old Big East and got new members merged with some of the old members.

So which would be the 8 schools? And, dare I open up this can of worms, where would they land?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

One way how FSU and Clemson can leave the ACC. Dissolve the current ACC as we know it. Need eight votes. Seven step process. Here are details. He doesn't suggest the ACC reform the way the new Big East took the name of the old Big East and got new members merged with some of the old members.

So four ACC members will land in better homes (two SEC, two B1G), four will make a lateral move with a significant travel increase (and a ton of lost seniority) and the remaining schools will be out in the cold.

Tell me how this proposal will receive more than four votes.

 

[Viet Vet]

So which would be the 8 schools? And, dare I open up this can of worms, where would they land?

My guess: FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, UVA, VT, GT, Louisville. BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Duke, NC State, Wake left out. ND is a free agent to plot its own course.

It would be interesting to see how the North Carolina legislature would react to divergent paths for UNC and NC State.

I'd be OK with a reconstituted conference of BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Duke, NC State, Wake, UConn and UMass. All sports. I doubt Duke would look favorably on this, but they might have little choice.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

My guess: FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, UVA, VT, GT, Louisville. BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Duke, NC State, Wake left out. ND is a free agent to plot its own course.

It would be interesting to see how the North Carolina legislature would react to divergent paths for UNC and NC State.

I'd be OK with a reconstituted conference of BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Duke, NC State, Wake, UConn and UMass. All sports. I doubt Duke would look favorably on this, but they might have little choice.

In agreement with that. The only thing I would offer up is no UMass and add USF (gotta have a FL school for recruiting and marketing purposes) and ECU. Still would need a few more schools. The first 7 schools are pretty darn solid or have the potential to be. The last 4 or 5 schools would need to be up and comers (kind of what the AAC did in terms of picking on potential).

 

[Kolumbo]

Here's the gist of what the guy in post #317 said. The "original 8 members" form the co-op group to explore and secure new conferences. I figure he meant FSU, Clemson, Ga Tech, UNC, NC State, UVA, Duke, Wake but then he said Miami to the B1G:

SEC - Clemson, FSU for example
B1G: UVA, Miami for example
Big 12: 2
AAC: 2

It could work. Maybe a total of say 6 find homes in the B1G and SEC. 2 more could be happy enough in the Big 12, such as Louisville and Pitt. No one would be happy in the AAC but their vote wouldn't be needed or they just want to land somewhere. Or perhaps build a new eastern conference with the remnants plus a few AAC or independent programs.

The majority could do this and try to move before all the good spots are taken by PAC progams, or hold onto the GOR and hope FSU and Clemson can't break it. Risky business all around.