Petiti verbalizing contraction (Ross Dellenger article) | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Petiti verbalizing contraction (Ross Dellenger article)

The big names are still the draws..

2023...

So after getting a dream Final Four field last year, CBS and Turner Sports have something very different this weekend with Florida Atlantic, Miami, San Diego State and UConn making it to Houston.

"The public is telling us that they would rather see the blue bloods," said former CBS Sports president Neal Pilson, who now runs his own sports television consulting company. "The ratings support that. I think it's because they're not familiar with teams like San Diego State, Miami or FAU. There was relatively little press attention paid to those teams during the year. Connecticut has a history, but they're the only one of the four that really has had national exposure."

Last year's Final Four of Duke, North Carolina, Kansas and Villanova resonated even with casual fans because it was loaded with national brands while also being Mike Krzyzewski's final tournament as the Blue Devils' coach. And so two of last year's Final Four contests rank among the three most-watched college basketball games in cable TV history. The semifinal matchup between North Carolina and Duke averaged 18.5 million on TBS and ranks second, while Kansas' comeback victory over North Carolina in the title game averaged 18.1 million.


I agree that people want big names in the Final Four, but they don’t want them in the early rounds. The madness is the first 2-3 rounds, then we settle in to wanting to see a high powered matchup. Last year was particularly rare with FAU and SDSU making it, but it may be the new normal. Loyola Chicago and FAU were the biggest surprises since George Mason.
 
I agree that people want big names in the Final Four, but they don’t want them in the early rounds. The madness is the first 2-3 rounds, then we settle in to wanting to see a high powered matchup. Last year was particularly rare with FAU and SDSU making it, but it may be the new normal. Loyola Chicago and FAU were the biggest surprises since George Mason.

Hmm...there are early football upsets as well....last season, Week Two...Marshall beats #8 Notre Dame, Georgia Southern over Nebraska....and then Appy State beats #6 Texas A&M.

But the viewing isn't world beating.
 
Isn't separating into two divisions de facto relegation albeit a voluntary one?
I get what you are saying but I meant more in the sense of English Soccer with programs moving up and down on a regular basis. I understand that mine might not be a popular opinion here, and that’s ok. I just feel that is better to be honest about the differences between a program like OSU and Ohio.

Let the kids at a school like Ohio actually compete for something instead of the sum total of their college experience being playing in front of 10k fans on a Tuesday Night and getting to be some P4’s Homecoming Game.
 
Hmm...there are early football upsets as well....last season, Week Two...Marshall beats #8 Notre Dame, Georgia Southern over Nebraska....and then Appy State beats #6 Texas A&M.

But the viewing isn't world beating.
That’s a night and day comparison. The early rounds of the tourney are viewed heavily.

No one cares about App St beating Michigan or A&M until it’s happened.
 
Yet 2.8 million watched Appalachian State-Texas A&M...and 2.48 million watched Marshall-Notre Dame.

Not near as many viewers as the Knight's win over Purdue in the Tourney (the best draw in that round in 10 years) but not that shabby.

The tourney is condensed into a short time period while football is a longer haul. Sort of a longer elimination. The 12 team CFP will draw big numbers as it becomes the final rounds of a tournament for for football.
 
I agree that people want big names in the Final Four, but they don’t want them in the early rounds. The madness is the first 2-3 rounds, then we settle in to wanting to see a high powered matchup. Last year was particularly rare with FAU and SDSU making it, but it may be the new normal. Loyola Chicago and FAU were the biggest surprises since George Mason.
If the new normal features FAU and San Diego State level teams (but not the same teams year over year (essentially creating no new 'blue bloods) cycling through year over year the ratings will crater and the value of the rights deal will plummet at the next renewal. If anything that new normal would be a bigger impetus for the P4 split to be complete and include basketball.
 
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I love that we’re talking about contraction and people think Richmond, Drake, and Seton Hall are making the cut.


Teams like Ole Miss and Minnesota might get cut- you’re out of your mind if you think teams with FCS programs or no team at all will be affiliated with the top collegiate athletics tier
 
1) A top tier of Football breaks away from the NCAA:

Initiated by the Big Ten and the SEC, all of their members are in for 34 teams total.

Big Ten - 18
SEC - 16

They add another 16 to this level (not to their conferences) by invitation, to get to 50. This list would include Notre Dame and Clemson, and vigorous debate would round out the list.

Their are a few programs in the P2 that are included that upset arguing fans, but life is not fair and the P2 isn’t kicking members to the curb.

This football system is driven by cash, is profitable, and pays players six figures as they develop towards their NFL goals.

The remaining 80 FBS football teams remain in the NCAA and compete in their own CFP. The proceeds from TV and playoffs fund athletic programs and governance. Players can earn honest NIL but school programs aren’t backing player salaries.

2) Separately, a top tier of Basketball breaks away from the NCAA. B12, B1G, Big East, ACC, WCC, PAC (?), A10, AAC.

The resulting tournament distributes its earnings to these programs, a huge increase from the current model where the NCAA eats the profits.

Like the football model, this is a for-profit league with players paid 6 figures.

3) The NCAA is reduced and returned to a governing body of student athletes. No longer funded by big money, it regulates fair play and governs championships across all sports, except the money basketball and football leagues.

Outside of Basketball and Football, the power conferences remain in the NCAA.
 
1) A top tier of Football breaks away from the NCAA:

Initiated by the Big Ten and the SEC, all of their members are in for 34 teams total.

Big Ten - 18
SEC - 16

They add another 16 to this level (not to their conferences) by invitation, to get to 50. This list would include Notre Dame and Clemson, and vigorous debate would round out the list.

Their are a few programs in the P2 that are included that upset arguing fans, but life is not fair and the P2 isn’t kicking members to the curb.

This football system is driven by cash, is profitable, and pays players six figures as they develop towards their NFL goals.

The remaining 80 FBS football teams remain in the NCAA and compete in their own CFP. The proceeds from TV and playoffs fund athletic programs and governance. Players can earn honest NIL but school programs aren’t backing player salaries.

2) Separately, a top tier of Basketball breaks away from the NCAA. B12, B1G, Big East, ACC, WCC, PAC (?), A10, AAC.

The resulting tournament distributes its earnings to these programs, a huge increase from the current model where the NCAA eats the profits.

Like the football model, this is a for-profit league with players paid 6 figures.

3) The NCAA is reduced and returned to a governing body of student athletes. No longer funded by big money, it regulates fair play and governs championships across all sports, except the money basketball and football leagues.

Outside of Basketball and Football, the power conferences remain in the NCAA.
You do realize without men's Basketball their are no NCAA Championships
No track, Hockey , Wrestling , Golf ,Tennis, Lacrosse, Soccer , or even Frisbee
Forget women's sports all together , I’m sure that will go over well .
maybe each each sport could have a Go Fund
Me account.
 
You do realize without men's Basketball their are no NCAA Championships
No track, Hockey , Wrestling , Golf ,Tennis, Lacrosse, Soccer , or even Frisbee
Forget women's sports all together , I’m sure that will go over well .
maybe each each sport could have a Go Fund
Me account.
people don't realize that running the other sports tournaments are pricey. It would then fall back on the member schools to fund them. Now what that means exactly, I honestly don't know.

On the other hand, I suspect a lot of NCAA money goes back into self-marketing and self-dealing of corporate officers and the like.
 
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You do realize without men's Basketball their are no NCAA Championships
No track, Hockey , Wrestling , Golf ,Tennis, Lacrosse, Soccer , or even Frisbee
Forget women's sports all together , I’m sure that will go over well .
maybe each each sport could have a Go Fund
Me account.
Funding those championships through the NCAA isn't the only way that they could be held. The NCAA has grown to be a bloated organization. It is inefficient both in terms of administration and "enforcement". As we have seen most recently with the Kansas non-penalty, it's enforcement arm is, at best, selective. It is time for it to go.
 
Most of the funding for non revenue sports comes from Football/Network rights
It would be interesting to know what BB revenue delivers to a typical top 50 school
 
Most of the funding for non revenue sports comes from Football/Network rights
It would be interesting to know what BB revenue delivers to a typical top 50 school
Esspecially if those numbers were generated based upon sharing March madness revenue among participating schools just the way it is done for the college football playoff rather than being used to pay for the NCAA, and nonrevenue sports championships including D2 and D3. That would be more of an apples to apples comparison.
 
With the 80%-20% split in the ACC...Duke and UNC received $ 7.38 million last year from ESPN for basketball....same as all ACC programs.

The ACC's teams in the 2022 tournament earned #36.4 million payable over six years ($6 million per year)..and that is added to previous and future torney earnings. 2023...$24 million
 
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I think you're conflating several issues/situations. Do you have data to back up the arguement that Connecticut fans love St Peter's/cinderellas more than the rest of the country? Yes, the power programs will drive higher ratings but I think the backdrop of the madness is what makes the tournament so compelling and therefore valuable.

Yes, money is driving decisions in football but March Madness is a different situation - especially since its revenues are tied into funding D2, D3, and lower D1 athletics' very existence. It's going to be interesting to see if major economic changes are made to March Madness, which is a BILLION dollar enterprise in and of itself.
My data is anecdotal, this board and UConn fans that are adamant that the Big East, men’s basketball and the NCAA tournament is immune to the Death Star of college football.

We keep mentioning that they won’t mess with the billions of the NCAA tournament. They won’t mess with the billions, they are just going to take it for themselves.
 
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My data is anecdotal, this board and UConn fans that are adamant that the Big East, men’s basketball and the NCAA tournament is immune to the Death Star of college football.

We keep mentioning that they won’t mess with the billions of the NCAA tournament. They won’t mess with the billions, they are just going to take it for themselves.
I think it's going to take an incredible act of greed and arrogance for anyone (conferences/schools) to knowingly kill athletics at non-power institutions by simply redirecting all the money that March Madness creates. Seems like Congress would (have to) get involved and I don't think any university president would want to face that wrath under a microscope.
 
I think it's going to take an incredible act of greed and arrogance for anyone (conferences/schools) to knowingly kill athletics at non-power institutions by simply redirecting all the money that March Madness creates. Seems like Congress would (have to) get involved and I don't think any university president would want to face that wrath under a microscope.
How many Congressmen are in states with Power conference teams?
 
How many Congressmen are in states with Power conference teams?
A lot. And those same Congress members will have both power conference and non-power conference institutions in their realm. A sticky mess of a scenario for sure.
 
I think it's going to take an incredible act of greed and arrogance for anyone (conferences/schools) to knowingly kill athletics at non-power institutions by simply redirecting all the money that March Madness creates. Seems like Congress would (have to) get involved and I don't think any university president would want to face that wrath under a microscope.
I doubt it.
 
I think it's going to take an incredible act of greed and arrogance for anyone (conferences/schools) to knowingly kill athletics at non-power institutions by simply redirecting all the money that March Madness creates. Seems like Congress would (have to) get involved and I don't think any university president would want to face that wrath under a microscope.

Football did it years ago. Why not basketball?
 
A lot. And those same Congress members will have both power conference and non-power conference institutions in their realm. A sticky mess of a scenario for sure.

Right now we're already seeing no one sticking their neck out for Washington State or Oregon State, given that Washington & Oregon are safe. No one in California stood up for Cal when they were left out in the cold as UCLA moved on.... but we're supposed to buy that someone is going to stand up for Dayton at the expense of running afoul of Ohio State? Or move to benefit FAU at the expense of Florida or Florida State?

The P4 is big enough and there are so few senators/congressmen prominent enough to force a situation the way Orrin Hatch did as he tried to protect Utah. Had Utah been in the Pac-12 or Big XII (or whatever they'll be named) back then, he never would've stood up then either.
 
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Football did it years ago. Why not basketball?
Because it's a different scenario in the sense that no one cares when the rich get richer amongst themselves but when the rich shake down the sisters of the poor that's when people have an issue?
 
"Seems like Congress would (have to) get involved"

That seems very unlikely to me.
Oh, I'm not saying they would necessarily have in-person hearings but I can see them applying pressure on their in-state institutions if needed. Take MA for example - how would it go down with all the non-power schools if BC would be part of the power schools pushing for what would jeopardize all the other MA schools' athletic programs? This could play out similarly in numerous other states (likely more severely in blue states than red)... I think the whole thing would be avoided anyway - primarily because most university presidents play nice with each other as they all belong to the same "club" and know their careers as chief executives are bettered if they don't piss off other institutions.
 
I think it's going to take an incredible act of greed and arrogance for anyone (conferences/schools) to knowingly kill athletics at non-power institutions by simply redirecting all the money that March Madness creates. Seems like Congress would (have to) get involved and I don't think any university president would want to face that wrath under a microscope.
Guys…football money left Stanford and California athletics — two academic supernovas with massively influential alumni and outsized power— and these schools had to BEG to get into the ACC only after a former Secretary of State and a former president of the United States got involved.

And they had to come in and beg.

Can you guys guess what is the largest state, in terms of population (which determines size of house delegation), that does not have a Power 5 team playing within its borders?

Please. You guys get only one guess at this.
 
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Not sure what your point is, but here's mine:

1. There are almost 1,100 non power schools that have athletic programs across the country as opposed to the 40 or so power schools.

Why should hoops pay for that and not football?
 
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