Petiti verbalizing contraction (Ross Dellenger article)

[shizzle787]

But they already do don't they? Can Division 2 teams get into the Division 1 tournament?

G5 teams are part of FBS. They didn’t previously but there were no auto bids before in the CFP.

 

[JohnFSilver]

If you read that article it appears to say that the cut off is all FBS schools. By that definition we would make the cut. It wouldn't surprise me if we got a dramatically reduced share

I am assuming fbs conferences.

 

[billybud]

They’ll just redefine FBS into something else. Instead of FBS they’ll have the A (autonomous) Division, B etc

 

[AZHuskiePop]

But they already do don't they? Can Division 2 teams get into the Division 1 tournament?

There are 360 D1 basketball Teams Actually 32 conferences as a conference not an individual team currently has access to the tournament . Actually it’s the expansion and inclusive nature of the tourney that makes March Madness such a compelling event .
Any team by filling certain criteria has the option to move up into a D1 conference. It requires an investment.
This certainly Is an antitrust issue cutting out conferences. , Usually only a dozen or so advance to round 2 . So the money the small conferences earn is chump change.
These guys a simple thieves in $1000 suits .
They will eventual destroy College athletics

 

[billybud]

It ain’t about basketball. They are going after the billions of CFP bucks.

 

[Ldandy]

Sankey is not shy about telegraphing what he and his Big Ten soul mate are up to...

"You're assigning all the legal and financial responsibility to a nine-member group that has a minority representation from the [power] groups that are generating the financial and legal realities," Sankey said earlier this summer. "It really is backwards."

He continued speaking about power conference influence: "That's our world. To assign decision-making authority to a room that is not invested the same way is long-term problematic. That's as direct and blunt as I could be."

Say what you want about Sankey, but he’s not wrong. Why should Alabama, Michigan, or Texas have policy dictated to them by Wichita State or DePaul? These programs have almost nothing in common outside of a shared TV basketball tournament. The NCAA best listen to what is being said, and the other conferences better be ready to fall in line. If not The P2/P4 will fund their own vision of college athletics which will ultimately compromise sustainability for all of The G5 & FCS.

 

[hoopsfan22]

There are 360 D1 basketball Teams Actually 32 conferences as a conference not an individual team currently has access to the tournament . Actually it’s the expansion and inclusive nature of the tourney that makes March Madness such a compelling event .
Any team by filling certain criteria has the option to move up into a D1 conference. It requires an investment.
This certainly Is an antitrust issue cutting out conferences. , Usually only a dozen or so advance to round 2 . So the money the small conferences earn is chump change.
These guys a simple thieves in $1000 suits .
They will eventual destroy College athletics

So what stops the NCAA from creating another level with a higher criteria than D1? I keep hearing anti-trust, but it sounds like we're talking about doing something that has already been done. When the other divisions were created was that an anti-trust issue? The NCAA can create a "Division Zero" and set the criteria for what it takes to move up to that level the same way it did with Division 1, 2, and 3.

 

[CL82]

I am assuming fbs conferences.

Non-football playing and FCS members have “too much influence” on certain rule-making committees, he says. Small-school votes continue preventing rule changes that his conference can afford."

Sounds to me like the cut off is FBS since he is specifically excluding non-football playing and FCS schools.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Two points here.

1. Ncaa is all about Cinderella's? Not really. It’s fun. Yes, St. Peter/Loyola captured some heart, but that is one weekend a year. No one puts up with the 360 team monstrous governing structure for all sports to preserve two days of basketball.

Again. Overstating hoops too much. The people are gonna watch what ever is on the tv.

2. FBS. I think they may drop it to 80-90. That bottom 30 is a problem. Probably should go to two divisions of FBS with a way to, over multiple years, work your way up to the premier division like soccer. Or if you suck, move down.

 

[shizzle787]

Two points here.

1. Ncaa is all about Cinderella's? Not really. It’s fun. Yes, St. Peter/Loyola captured some heart, but that is one weekend a year. No one puts up with the 360 team monstrous governing structure for all sports to preserve two days of basketball.

Again. Overstating hoops too much. The people are gonna watch what ever is on the tv.

2. FBS. I think they may drop it to 80-90. That bottom 30 is a problem. Probably should go to two divisions of FBS with a way to, over multiple years, work your way up to the premier division like soccer. Or if you suck, move down.

I’m not saying there should be a ton of Cinderellas. I’m saying there should still be a few though. I think Division 1 has been bloated for too long.

 

[Ha Who]

Say what you want about Sankey, but he’s not wrong. Why should Alabama, Michigan, or Texas have policy dictated to them by Wichita State or DePaul? These programs have almost nothing in common outside of a shared TV basketball tournament. The NCAA best listen to what is being said, and the other conferences better be ready to fall in line. If not The P2/P4 will fund their own vision of college athletics which will ultimately compromise sustainability for all of The G5 & FCS.

For the same reason each state has two senators

 

[bobbyinaz]

Non-football playing and FCS members have “too much influence” on certain rule-making committees, he says. Small-school votes continue preventing rule changes that his conference can afford."

Sounds to me like the cut off is FBS since he is specifically excluding non-football playing and FCS schools.

Based on that statement the cutoff will be whoever can afford the changes they want.

 

[CL82]

Based on that statement the cutoff will be whoever can afford the changes they want.

Effectively.

 

[JeepCSC]

I’m not saying there should be a ton of Cinderellas. I’m saying there should still be a few though. I think Division 1 has been bloated for too long.

The most famous high school tournament in the country was the Indiana High School Basketball Tournament. It was a wide-open tournament, built its popularity on underdogs advancing far, and gave us a storyline that we measure all Cinderella’s against.

And yet within a decade of the movie, the tournament had split up into different classes based on school enrollment. America literally killed the Hoosiers dream and no one cared. The NCAA as is is definitely not untouchable.

 

[billybud]

In a big state....Florida...the high schools play for championships in their category...

Nine categories...9 champions...

Football Brackets - Florida High School Athletic Association

Previous Results 2025 State Championships Classes 1A-7A December 10-13, 2025 South Dade Kia Field at Pitbull Stadium (Miami) Rural

fhsaa.com

 

[JohnFSilver]

I’m not saying there should be a ton of Cinderellas. I’m saying there should still be a few though. I think Division 1 has been bloated for too long.

No one cares about the cinderellas. Us fans up here in Connecticut, for too long, have looked at things with these kids glasses on.

Gotta look at this landscape as an adult. This isn’t milk and cookies anymore.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

No one cares about the cinderellas. Us fans up here in Connecticut, for too long, have looked at things with these kids glasses on.

Gotta look at this landscape as an adult. This isn’t milk and cookies anymore.

I think the point is that while the fans of the blue bloods/higher aspiration program fans don't care as much about Cinderellas, the rest of the country does and ALL of those eyeballs are what makes March Madness so profitable.

 

[Hoophound]

In a big state....Florida...the high schools play for championships in their category...

Nine categories...9 champions...

Football Brackets - Florida High School Athletic Association

Previous Results 2025 State Championships Classes 1A-7A December 10-13, 2025 South Dade Kia Field at Pitbull Stadium (Miami) Rural

fhsaa.com

It’s the same in CT. Lots of big cities and small towns mixed with medium to large suburbs, resulting in multiple classifications. I think there are 6 classes right now. However, some sports have fewer classes than others. Most sports are broken down into 4 classes, LL, L, M and S.

 

[Chin Diesel]

In a big state....Florida...the high schools play for championships in their category...

Nine categories...9 champions...

Football Brackets - Florida High School Athletic Association

Previous Results 2025 State Championships Classes 1A-7A December 10-13, 2025 South Dade Kia Field at Pitbull Stadium (Miami) Rural

fhsaa.com

For football they completely re-drew all the classes and broke them in to metro, suburbs and rural.

The big city schools made all but impossible for equally sized schools from less dense areas to compete.

Football Classifications Available for 2022-23 & 2023-24

GAINESVILLE, Fla. – In February, the FHSAA Board of Directors voted to restructure Policy 12 for football classifications. Moving from an eight (8) class, enrollment only separation component, to organizing into three (3) divisions; Metro, Suburban, and Rural, and then factoring in enrollment...

fhsaa.com

 

[Hoophound]

I thinkbthe point is that while the fans of the blue bloods/higher aspiration program fans don't care as much about Cinderellas, the rest of the country does and ALL of those eyeballs are what makes March Madness so profitable.

Agreed. People get roped in by the stories, particularly people that don’t watch during the regular season. The participation in tourney brackets also ratchets up casual fan interest. Those people don’t care if UConn is playing UK or Duke is playing Michigan. They want to see David vs Goliath.

 

[billybud]

The big names are still the draws..

2023...

So after getting a dream Final Four field last year, CBS and Turner Sports have something very different this weekend with Florida Atlantic, Miami, San Diego State and UConn making it to Houston.

"The public is telling us that they would rather see the blue bloods," said former CBS Sports president Neal Pilson, who now runs his own sports television consulting company. "The ratings support that. I think it's because they're not familiar with teams like San Diego State, Miami or FAU. There was relatively little press attention paid to those teams during the year. Connecticut has a history, but they're the only one of the four that really has had national exposure."

Last year's Final Four of Duke, North Carolina, Kansas and Villanova resonated even with casual fans because it was loaded with national brands while also being Mike Krzyzewski's final tournament as the Blue Devils' coach. And so two of last year's Final Four contests rank among the three most-watched college basketball games in cable TV history. The semifinal matchup between North Carolina and Duke averaged 18.5 million on TBS and ranks second, while Kansas' comeback victory over North Carolina in the title game averaged 18.1 million.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

No one cares about the cinderellas. Us fans up here in Connecticut, for too long, have looked at things with these kids glasses on.

Gotta look at this landscape as an adult. This isn’t milk and cookies anymore.

I love the Cinderellas, once they become so. I don't do the bracket pools, so I always cheer for the small schools in the first round...against schools or conferences I don't like. Who doesn't love a 16 beating a 1 or a 15 beating a 2? I think saying no one cares about Cinderellas is a stretch. People everywhere like Cinderellas and it is a key aspect to the early enjoyment of the tourney. FDU taking out Purdue was great. FL Atlantic in the final 4.

 

[CL82]

I think the point is that while the fans of the blue bloods/higher aspiration program fans don't care as much about Cinderellas, the rest of the country does and ALL of those eyeballs are what makes March Madness so profitable.

People do like to root for an underdog. Here's the thing though, whoever is the lowest ranked team will be the Cinderella. It doesn't necessarily have to be alone major who's never made it to the tournament before.

 

[ScottVib]

I think the point is that while the fans of the blue bloods/higher aspiration program fans don't care as much about Cinderellas, the rest of the country does and ALL of those eyeballs are what makes March Madness so profitable.

The ratings when those Cinderellas advance past the opening weekend say otherwise.

 

[JohnFSilver]

I think the point is that while the fans of the blue bloods/higher aspiration program fans don't care as much about Cinderellas, the rest of the country does and ALL of those eyeballs are what makes March Madness so profitable.

The rest of the country doesn’t. Only UConn fans, it seems, cares about the charms of St. Peter’s.

What makes March madness profitable is the sweet 16 and on, including the Final Four. Power programs drive ratings.

I don’t want to sound cranky. It’s time for us to see this with clear eyes. If you think the powers that be won’t do it, then you haven’t been paying attention.

Nothing is sacrosanct. They just destroyed the Pac-12 conference and the Rose Bowl.

 

[Ldandy]

The ratings when those Cinderellas advance past the opening weekend say otherwise.

People love Cinderellas when they're pulling off last second upsets of overrated teams in the opening weekend. There's often some quirky human-interest story that gets attached to the team which furthers public interest. That being said nobody wants to watch a Final Four comprised of games like Florida Gulf Coast playing Loyola Chicago for the opportunity to meet the winner of San Diego State vs. Creighton. The ratings would be absolutely abysmal. In the second week the tournament requires the likes of UNC, Kansas, Duke etc.

 

[Ldandy]

Two points here.

1. Ncaa is all about Cinderella's? Not really. It’s fun. Yes, St. Peter/Loyola captured some heart, but that is one weekend a year. No one puts up with the 360 team monstrous governing structure for all sports to preserve two days of basketball.

Again. Overstating hoops too much. The people are gonna watch what ever is on the tv.

2. FBS. I think they may drop it to 80-90. That bottom 30 is a problem. Probably should go to two divisions of FBS with a way to, over multiple years, work your way up to the premier division like soccer. Or if you suck, move down.

I don't think we will ever see relegation come to college sports, but there needs to be a hard reset from the current format. Just like when Div 1A and1AA were separated, it's ridiculous to think that Alabama and Alabama Birmingham are competing for the same thing.

One program is willing to spend whatever it takes to compete for the national title every season, the other is just praying that they get enough payday road games on their schedule in order to support their athletic department. It's a completely broken system and it no longer makes sense to continue it.

Separate into two divisions. The first will be 60-80 schools that meet certain requirements such as attendance, stadium size, willingness to pay cost of attendance, size of AD, whatever makes sense and have those schools compete primarily against each other and in their own Divisional National Championship. The remaining schools, primarily all G5 do the same. Who cares if The B1G/SEC allow a G5 Representative into a 12 Team Playoff annually. They are not winning it, next year or 100 years from now.

Why not have a tournament where you end up with a competitive final four of teams like Boise St, Coastal Carolina, Army, and SDSU? It's good for TV as you have more product to sell, and it's good for the teams because they are actually competing for something real and will receive the lion's share of the proceeds from the second tournament.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

The ratings when those Cinderellas advance past the opening weekend say otherwise.

I agree that once Cinderella gets into the final four it might have a negative effect but perhaps only when comparing TV ratings to a FF or Final matchup containing two bluebloods.

 

[CL82]

I don't think we will ever see relegation come to college sports, but there needs to be a hard reset from the current format. Just like when Div 1A and1AA were separated, it's ridiculous to think that Alabama and Alabama Birmingham are competing for the same thing.

One program is willing to spend whatever it takes to compete for the national title every season, the other is just praying that they get enough payday road games on their schedule in order to support their athletic department. It's a completely broken system and it no longer makes sense to continue it.

Separate into two divisions. The first will be 60-80 schools that meet certain requirements such as attendance, stadium size, willingness to pay cost of attendance, size of AD, whatever makes sense and have those schools compete primarily against each other and in their own Divisional National Championship. The remaining schools, primarily all G5 do the same. Who cares if The B1G/SEC allow a G5 Representative into a 12 Team Playoff annually. They are not winning it, next year or 100 years from now.

Why not have a tournament where you end up with a competitive final four of teams like Boise St, Coastal Carolina, Army, and SDSU? It's good for TV as you have more product to sell, and it's good for the teams because they are actually competing for something real and will receive the lion's share of the proceeds from the second tournament.

Isn't separating into two divisions de facto relegation albeit a voluntary one?

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

The rest of the country doesn’t. Only UConn fans, it seems, cares about the charms of St. Peter’s.

What makes March madness profitable is the sweet 16 and on, including the Final Four. Power programs drive ratings.

I don’t want to sound cranky. It’s time for us to see this with clear eyes. If you think the powers that be won’t do it, then you haven’t been paying attention.

Nothing is sacrosanct. They just destroyed the Pac-12 conference and the Rose Bowl.

I think you're conflating several issues/situations. Do you have data to back up the arguement that Connecticut fans love St Peter's/cinderellas more than the rest of the country? Yes, the power programs will drive higher ratings but I think the backdrop of the madness is what makes the tournament so compelling and therefore valuable.

Yes, money is driving decisions in football but March Madness is a different situation - especially since its revenues are tied into funding D2, D3, and lower D1 athletics' very existence. It's going to be interesting to see if major economic changes are made to March Madness, which is a BILLION dollar enterprise in and of itself.